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The Guerrilla Guide to Getting What You Paid For

rd.com — (Without getting arrested)....

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diggleague 53 days ago, made popular 52 days ago

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rlray216, on 05/15/2008, -4/+50The state of customer service in the USA is abysmal. It's so prevalent to get terrible customer service everywhere you go that people don't even seem to mind anymore. I have a lot more sympathy for the elderly woman with the claw hammer than I do for any of the employees at Comcast.
- edstate, on 05/15/2008, -1/+8You should try T-Mobile... "Oh, yeah, totally! That's a real bummer, Ed. I can totally see why you're frustrated. Totally.Yeah, a total bummer. ...what? Can I actually help you? Well, no. I can't do that. Sorry!"
- jemka, on 05/15/2008, -13/+4I am making a comment that you will digg up today.
- cawpin, on 05/15/2008, -3/+8These "tactics" aren't guerrilla in any way. How is expecting to get what you payed for guerrilla?
  
  FTA: "ONE EXAMPLE: Anne Braswell decided that the interest rate on her Citi
  MasterCard, 13.99 percent, was a little steep for her taste. She called customer service and asked if she qualified for a lower rate. The rep said no but told her to try again in a month. Braswell said, "Well, you can probably see from my account activity that I'm no longer charging any purchases to this card. Don't be surprised when you see my entire balance get transferred elsewhere." With those words she was put through to a retention specialist, who bumped her rate down to 3.99 percent. Braswell says the moral of the story is "It never hurts to ask." A Citigroup spokesman agrees: "We are pleased that our standard practice was followed in achieving a satisfactory result for the customer.""
  
  So, your standard practice is to lie to your customers and hope they don't catch you?
- xtinamo, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Maybe my beliefs are attributed to my work experience in the customer service industry, but until companies are willing to pay decent wages for their workers to provide excellent customer service, nothing will change. I was lucky enough to find such a company, but it is ridiculous to expect that minimum wage will buy you anything more than a possible smile and average job performance. This is one corner in which many companies cut and consumers need to realize that the ***** customer service is only a reflection of ***** paychecks.
  - Antares29, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Screw that. If they treat their customers like ***** because they aren't paid enough, then fire the lazy bastards. Keep hiring people until they find a group that has some work ethic. Nobody deserves a raise if they do a ***** job.
    - xtinamo, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I would agree with you except that this group of people with good work ethic and willing to be paid unlivable wages just doesn't exist. Companies are also not willing to keep training people then firing them, too expensive. Trust me, I used to interview entry level positions and while there were a few inexperienced hardworkers, soon enough they moved on to jobs that paid according to their skills.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3How is US support bad? You COULD be talking to somebody in *****, you know.
- listrophy, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5When I canceled TiVo (because I canceled my Charter service and had no justification to pay for TiVo on over-the-air), I had the most "enjoyable" cancellation talk ever. The rep was nice and suggested sticking around for another month for free (since some new software was coming down the pipe) without seeming pushy. It was merely a suggestion, that's all. Then, when I reiterated my intentions, she asked which model of TiVo I had. I told her, and she said that it was a fairly rare model that should fetch a nice price on eBay due to a particular feature.
  
  Moral of the story: if I ever get cable again (I almost guarantee it won't be with Charter), TiVo will be receiving a monthly check from me again. No questions.
  - akatherder, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2That reminded me of when I canceled my Chase Visa credit card. I had a promo offer in my hand from another company for something like 10%. Chase was charging me 18% (which isn't that important since I pay it off each month). I called Chase and told them to cancel my card because the interest rate was too high. The lady politely said "Ok, thanks for your service. We'll cancel it and send out the final bill."
    
    Fast forward a few years and I am back with Chase.
    - popfrogs, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Yeah, I had something similar happen with a Chase rep. She reminded me that since my credit history was shallow, it may be a good idea to hang on to the card. The rate was so high and the limit was so low, it was pointless, so I cancelled it anyway. She wasn't pushy at all, and almost seemed like she was looking out for my credit score. Not bad service at all.
- fsweep, on 05/15/2008, -0/+0It is much better than it is here in Europe where many service centers are open only during business hours.
agisten, on 05/15/2008, -5/+18another great way to get human is lookup on http://www.gethuman.com/ database
- RealmDown, on 05/15/2008, -0/+18It may not always work, but I thought this one was genius:
  
  6. Call the company's international customer-service number collect. Its incentive for keeping you on hold will drop dramatically.
- NoValidTitle, on 05/15/2008, -2/+6sigh... that was in the article that you apparently didn't read.
  - RealmDown, on 05/16/2008, -0/+13rd page #6, which is where I read it. See the #6 ? What gives you the impression that I did not read the article ?
    - sienar, on 05/16/2008, -1/+1not you, agisten posted the gethuman link. that's what was in the article
    - agisten, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1hmm, so what??
starfocus03, on 05/15/2008, -4/+5Interesting article!
shoediva, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3Great article! I always felt that AOL, when we were members wouldn't let me
cancel, they would always try to double talk me. I learned a lot from this.
- RealmDown, on 05/15/2008, -0/+13AOL = Training wheels for the Internet.
SpeshulEd, on 05/15/2008, -0/+16I've found that I get the best results by being both confident and courteous. By being straightforward and letting the service rep know what you want in a respectable manner, he or she will be more likely to go the extra mile to help you.
The reps are entry-level employees with no stock in the company--they often couldn't care less if you switch to a competitor. If they don't want to help you they can just point to the red tape. By saving the confrontation for escalations, you'll see issues resolved much more quickly.
- RealmDown, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5I've found this also. I don't always succeed, especially when it is clearly obvious they will not help solve the problem, but the large majority of the time being polite gets me farther than "puffing up with ruffled feathers."
- hayzeus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+6Hmmm -- I've just been threating their moms. Maybe I should try your approach. Thanx
- akatherder, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1If they value their job (which admittedly some of them don't) they still have an incentive to make you happy.
- breadfred, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I am a rep for a insurance company. When people start shouting, or are irritable, they usually have a good reason for it - not every colleague of mine is as experienced as we would like. That is not surprising. Everyone has to learn, and that does impact on customers, however much you want to avoid this. The majority of my customers are happy once you have explained this.
  Unfortunately there are also a number of customers who just take the mickey. They lie through their teeth. I don't have respect for them whatsoever and they do not get anything from me what they are not entitled to.
RealmDown, on 05/15/2008, -2/+2If I am getting lousy service, I try not to be mean directly. Usually, I just mention that it [that step] didn't help and compliment them on how well they read the question to me.
Willravel, on 05/15/2008, -0/+9Those gorillas know how to get ***** done!
drkmccrthy, on 05/15/2008, -3/+3edit. this article is like the consumerist but (is it possible?) less informed.
- flooz, on 05/15/2008, -3/+2Look at the author. It's Popken, from The Conusmerist.
  - drkmccrthy, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Fair enough, that's why the article sounded immature.
diizy, on 05/15/2008, -4/+19Once again, another article with more Customer service hate. Look:
"HOW TO DO IT: Begin the call by saying, "I have a situation that you are going to fix for me today." "

This is NOT how you do it. Just because you have a problem doesn't mean you automatically have the right to dictate the person on the other end.
Remember this does not always "Set the tone" in fact more times then others you will end up with a frustrated rep on the other line.

Although, threatening to cancel can always work. And email carpet bombs, and contacting executives, but mistreating CSR isn't how you do it.
- DharmaDog, on 05/15/2008, -2/+2How is expecting that your problem be solved "mistreating CSR?"
  You're there to help the customer. If that frustrates you, then find another job.
  - PigGeneral, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1"I have a situation that you are going to fix for me today, Where you pole mounted my Dish is where the aliens land to visit me. I need you to come out and move it for free".
    True story.
    - DharmaDog, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4Tell him Xenu said no go on that request, sorry.
  - diizy, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Expecting your problem to be solved is one thing, DEMANDING you solve a problem is another. You gotta give courtesy to get some, it's really about respect. And no, I love Customer Service, so i'm not leaving, i've taken a seat.
- breadfred, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4There is a reason why reps want to set the tone. Believe it or not, they know the product/service better then you do. Listen to the customer's rant, let the steam blow over. Then take over (sometimes sternly, advising that you do want to help them but you need to ask certain questions) by asking the questions which determine the origin of the problem and how to help the customer. It is not always the companies' fault! (Sorry, I know this is hearsay)
  - Drewnami, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Agreed. I've worked call-center - tech support, specifically. While I love helping out customers, sometimes there's only so much I can do...and there seems to be no way to avoid pissing off a customer by telling them you're going to transfer them to a specialist. They always seem to get in a jab about your incompetence.
ProjectGSX, on 05/15/2008, -4/+3consumerist.com has a lot of information on contacting escalated customer service for problem companies. Helped me quite a bit when I had trouble with capital one.
RobotLeAwesome, on 05/15/2008, -5/+21. If you don't get what you want, call the next day and ask for the same thing
2. repeat #1
wesniles, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1i like gorillas they're cute
jvangurp, on 05/15/2008, -0/+11Another tip - become old. It's amazing at how much easier it is to get taken seriously when you have a few grey hairs. People treat you like a 'grownup'.
- JulioHJ, on 05/15/2008, -0/+0Nah, people just don't want to deal with your old ass anymore, so they just give you whatever you want.
quill, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1My trick is to getting good service (to fix something, like in this article, or just in general) is to bring my wife. I don't want to look like a wimp in front of her, so I fight harder.

Also, she has a magical power that makes everyone instantly act friendly and helpful. Men, women, young, old...all are affected. It's a good thing that she hasn't used her powers for evil...

(As for myself...I could be waving stacks of $100 bills in front of a salesperson and get zero service.)
D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -2/+7FTA: "Tell the company that unless it solves your problem, you're taking your business to a competitor. It's helpful to cite the other company's enticing promotional offers. A deal-sealing phrase? "Give me a reason to stick around.""

Bull. Unless you get some peppy sales agent, and you're NOT being a jackass (which is never the case - the only people who make idle threats to cancel services are usually whiney jackasses), your chance of anything happening is slim to none, and THEN you're obligated to actually carry out your threat and switch to another provider.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Also:
  
  "Begin the call by saying, "I have a situation that you are going to fix for me today.""
  
  Speak to any tech support rep like that and you'll get jack *****. Period. We're not miracle workers. We have limitations and protocol to follow. If you don't like it, tough. Speak with the supervisor and he'll reiterate the exact same thing, and all you'll have accomplished is pissing off TWO people and still have a problem that needs fixing.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3"Call the main operator and ask in your most professional voice to be transferred to his or her office. Once there, quickly pitch
  
  your case to the assistant. She will likely hand you over to an elite squadron equipped with customer-service superpowers."
  
  Fat chance. CEO probably doesn't know jack about tech support. He knows how to manage money and public affairs. If the CEO can even turn HIS computer on in the morning, it's amazing.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1"Figure out the company's e-mail address format. It's usually something like firstname.lastname @companyname.com. You can find sample e-mail addresses in company press releases and SEC filings (sec.gov). Next, find the names of a number of top executives, plug them into the formula, and blast your complaint letter to as many as you want."
  
  Enjoy a termination of your service.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1"1. Push zero repeatedly, say "operator" or "agent," or simply stay on the line until the end of the options. "
  
  ***** you, and ***** your zero key.
- dblespresso, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Bs: got the directTV hd dvr through this. There is a nice guide on dbstalk, and you have to ask to terminate the account to get the free deal.
  - D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2And what if they don't feel like putting up with you trying to take something for free and just say, "Ok, canceled. Have a nice day."
    - Antares29, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1So what? Call back and get it reinstated if you can't deal with it. Be a freakin' man with some backbone, although, to be honest...reading through your posts, I realize that you are just one of those sad little technical support guys who gets off on thinking he's so much smarter than the people calling in with problems. So a backbone for you is treating your customers like *****.
      
      Oh, don't misunderstand me, I've been there. I've seen that headache. But really, for as high and superior as you think you are, you're just an insect at your company and sooner or later you'll realize that of all the "dumbasses" working there, you are the one that's expended and gets outsourced.
      
      Have a great day!
firblitz, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3Gah! I hated this article when it was on the Consumerist and I hated it when I read it in RD.
I will concede that these "tactics" may get you a little leeway when talking to the frontline customer rep, but if you are *really* in a tight bind, frontline reps do not have the ability to get you what you need. You will eventually speak with the "higher-ups" and they deal with your "tactics" as a full-time job. Do you really think that you can stand toe-to-toe with them?
When I was a tech support rep I would go to bat for a customer if they were nice, polite, and had a good reason for me to go above and beyond. The second you start pulling some of this attitude ***** is the second I'll do the bare minimum to help you.
The best thing you can have going for you is a polite, respectful attitude and a good argument that the agent can use to convince their manager to give you a break. Reader's Digest has done a disservice to it's readers.
- D14BL0, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1As a fellow tech support rep, I hate to say it, but this IS the case with just about every agent you will speak with. Be nice and nice things happen to you. Act like you DESERVE something cheapened for you, and you'll get a cheapened customer service.
- DharmaDog, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1How does it makes sense that a customer must beg and plead and whisper sweet-nothings into the CSRs ear to solve a problem that YOUR company caused. You should be willing to solve the problem period. I shouldn't have to stroke your ego to get you to do your job.
  
  And yes, I've worked in a call center and sympathize with you about the real asses that call in, but you've clearly developed an attitude that it's you against the customers.
  
  Provide the service you would want if the tables were turned.
Jsmuli2, on 05/15/2008, -0/+6Good read.
After my Comcast "promotional" price was up (6 months), my roommate called them and complained that it was a bit ridiculous to go from $70 to $100 and that we were looking to switch to Verizon Fios.
Now our Monthly bill is back to $70.
kweee, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7At first I was like, "Hey, a crappy consumerist article not written by The Consumerist." Turns out I was wrong.
viacombusta, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3excellent article.

i've done most of this already. it's how i got a $99/month unlimited everything cell phone, a free directv hd-dvr, and lowered all of my credit card interest rates.

just tell whomever that you want to cancel your service and see what they will do to keep you.
sodade, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Why are there no standards for customer service? Sounds like a good role for government. Protect the consumer from corporations by fining the ***** out of corporations that don't meet minimum customer service standards.
- Antares29, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1This isn't really something that should be in the governments hands. Fight back using your wallet or, if you get really screwed over, with the justice system.
5xSTUN, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I remember a Bloom County cartoon in the 80s where Opus the penguin is trying to book a flight on a major airline. The price quoted to him over the phone is exorbitant, so he says to the clerk, in a huff, "I will take my business to your competitor!" and brusquely hangs up. After a sagely single-panel aside to the reader, he calls the competing airline, only to find that in the last few seconds it was bought out by the airline that he'd hung up on, and the price has just doubled. With a dejected sigh he books the flight.
kreatre2007, on 05/15/2008, -0/+4This is an awesome article. I frequently use the option of contacting the executive offices. Sometimes, merely asking for and acknowledging the name of the customer service rep and then telling them that you'll contact the executive office gets a lot done. They don't want their name to be known to one of the execs especially if it's attached to a complaint. Also, let the rep know that you're taking notes.
onlyclave, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2The first step is knowing what you are paying for. Do not expect to pay Wal Mart prices and get Nordstrom service. Period. Your money has a value but so does the service you pay for, ie "You get what you pay for."

The next step is to know what you're talking about. I came across the situation about the missing computer restore CDs all of the time when I was in retail management. Customer: "I don't believe you. I've bought 7 other computers in my life and they all came with restore CDs. Now you're telling me this computer has a restore partition and I have to pay extra for the actual discs. Give them too me for free!" Mr. Customer has failed to realize how much MORE he used to pay for those other 7 computers that he isn't paying now. He gets a higher performance machine at a lower price but he also gets tech support in India and no restore discs in the box.

Telling some service provider that you are going to cancel your service unless X happens is a great way to get fired as a customer. I used to refund people for their purchases and tell them that I was not going to business with them any more. The profit to grief ratio was too low and it was worth it to not have that person as a customer.

Don't expect the CEO of a company to just bend over and give you what you want. If he dumps you off on one of his subordinates that's what those people are paid to do.

Don't expect the Better Business Bureau to solve your problem. They are simply a intermediary that cannot force a business to do anything. If you complain to the BBB they send a notice to that business that someone is complaining and ask for a resolution. If the business says "***** off" then the BBB relays that info to the customer.

In short, you get what you pay for. If you live in a price driven world and look for the "best deals" then you need to realize that low price is not the only indicator of a good deal.
- truebeliever83, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Truer words never spoken! I work in sales for a software company and it amazes me how many people expect us to bend over backwards because they spent $600 back in 2004. If you decline to buy a support plan, don't call me pissed off in 6 months because you can't log on and demand free service. You cheaped out at the time and you have to pay for that now. Such is life; you get what you pay for.
sly7765, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1One thing you really have to remember is that the person on the other end of the phone has heard your story a million times and does not care about you. You are the one with the problem not him. This entry level person is the guy you need to get one your side. Because when you ask to speak to his supervisor hes going to walk over there and give him HIS version of what you want and why you want it. He can make you sound like a crazy person and that will be the end of the line for you (he may even tell you his supervisor is not there) or he can plead your case. Its usually up to the customer.
SenorGeltabz, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I hate using comcast for the internet, let alone for a phone. Nothing ever works, hd always spazzin out,cable always "Getting repaired" . But thats what the internet is for!
kiwiboyus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1As a Manager in a support center I will tell you now, that being a dick and demanding more than is reasonable will not get you anything and screams for the CEO will get you passed back to support. Be polite and reasonable and you will normally get what you are asking for or at least as close as possible. Now if a rep is a dick ask for a manager, but you better tell the truth because I listen to the calls and if I don't hear the agent saying what you claim I''ll be less likely to help.
- DharmaDog, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1That simply could not be further from the truth in my experience. I had the biggest pricks calling in demanding completely unreasonable things. I wasn't telling the customer no to be rude or as some power trip, but because what they were asking for was so far outside of the terms of service or warranty that it was mind-boggling anyone would expect these requests to be honored.
  
  I had one guy that had the basement of his business flood. The water destroyed several servers. He fully expected us to replace them. I said no. He became irate. Issue gets escalated. I was on the phone while my manager relented and made a compromise with him. I was stunned. Another time a "doctor" called in saying he was having problems with a tape drive. Refused to troubleshoot or describe the problem. Not only wanted a replacement for that server, but a new tape drive for every server he owned in his four offices, which he admitted freely were working fine. I say no way. Maybe I'd shotgun a new tape drive to that one location, and if that didn't resolve the problem he would have to troubleshoot, but there was no way I'm replacing tape drives that he admits work fine. He gets irate. Escalates to my manager. He orders me to replace all the drives.
  
  I have other examples. Being an unrelenting prick does work.
elevatedms, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I hate it when websites and magazines tell people to figure out how much their time is worth by applying how much you make an hour to figure out if X is worth the cost. How many non-salaried people can customize their work schedule, decide to work that one extra hour, and see a direct correlation to their paycheck? Freelance writers and designers, salespeople, day traders and envelope stuffers to name a few. But the vast majority of people that are going to take this advice are upwardly mobile yuppies that are looking for validation to be egotistical about how much they make.
jennicamorel, on 05/15/2008, -1/+0lol another site that wasn't ready for digg traffic. digg bomb!
ambiguus, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1http://digg.com/business_finance/HOWTO_Mind_Contro ...

The original article from the consumerist was outlined a somewhat clearer.
robthom, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1The Guerrilla Guide to Getting What You Paid For (Without getting arrested)....

Dugg a million times over for the title. Truer words are rarely spoken.
LoudMusic, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Step one, don't pay for things using marketing terms like "guerrilla" as an adjective.

Rawr.
melondoc, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1A counterpoint about someone getting exactly what they paid for!
http://fridayreflections.typepad.com/weblog/2008/0 ...
IconoclastStill, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Useful article, but take some of it with a grain of salt.
spence798, on 05/16/2008, -0/+0My mother once experienced trouble receiving some DVDs she ordered. After months of frustrating telephone conversations with duplicitous personnel, she went online and found the CEO's phone number. Within a minute of her conversation with him, the phone rang and the issue was graciously resolved for her.
follower64, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Reader's Digest? Is my mom using Digg now?
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The Guerrilla Guide to Getting What You Paid For

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