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42 Comments
- zeno60, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14@atlex
Maybe before the water started filling up, but with that ammount of pressure it takes a hell of a lot of strengh to kick out/break/ even roll down those windows. They tested it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Good luck trying to get together enough force to do that jim1977.
Go to your local swimming baths and see how hard it is just to punch underwater, never mind throwing your weight against a window in a confined area. Then add extreme panic. . . . enjoy - archer104, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I would rather drown than be burned alive, skinned alive, buried alive, eaten by a hippo, or locked in a giant jar filled with tumbleweeds and salt that gets rolled down a hill.
And now, a Deep Thought by Jack Handey...
"If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you'll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy." - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11If you can open the window at all, that is.
- sTiVo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Seriously, watch the episode...
- generalleoff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9and then you will see them telling you to go to this link to see the clip.
- mt066, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Damn thats scary, drowning is one of my biggest fears.
- yourFNmother, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9they tested power windows under water, and they didnt short out. But it was too much pressure for regular ones. They rigged up some "high power" windows and those did the trick
- Hmmmsigh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you are really concerned with this, you should get a lifehammer and mount it above your driver side door. http://www.lifehammer.com/ Could save your life.crack the window, and the water pressure will help it cave in, and you can swim out...if you can hold your breath. Although, if you are really worried you could also mount a spare-air tank on the roof of your car too. http://www.spareair.com/
- FireStrife, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7many of you guys think that getting out of a water sinking car is as simple as kicking or just pushing the door open are sorely mistaken if you ever go diving or live in a canal/ water prone area like Florida you would know the kind of pressure your up against underwater.
The best bet you got without the tools is waiting for the pressure to equalize then swim upward trying to remain as calm as possible. - Koldark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Everyone... watch the freaking show THEN comment. They tested a lot of options.
- Camaroman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You can break the window easily but only if you scream "judo chop" while doing it.
- lsatkins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I thought on an episode of Top Gear that Hammond tried this and was able to get out.
- MondayJBlack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hammond did it only when he opened the door immediately. First time round he woulda drowned.
- ArkAngel06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's an hour show.
- zeno60, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2He can't open the door under that pressure, what makes you think he can simply roll down the window!? The pressure is acting against that also. They tested it on the full episode.
Want to try it yourself? Go get four of your buddies to push against your window with all their weight, then try to roll down your window... - Wisgary, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2He "drowns" like an airline pilot trying to land in an emergency situation on a simulator "dies". It's a simulated situation in which if it was all real, he really could have died.
- mblitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People are already discussing the pressure equalizations and such regarding what is required to exit the vehicle, but one thing that wasn't mentioned and to keep in mind is the danger of the ascent itself. Please, no discussion on what one would prefer, this is a physics discussion, not one of 'how I'd rather die'.
If the car is submerged and the occupant takes a deep breath before ascending (and fails to exhale during the ascent) then there is a likelihood of a lung over-expansion injury (aka air embolism). Simply, as the pressure reduces (going from greater pressure to lesser pressure), the volume is going to increase inversely. Decrease the pressure by half (e.g. go from 33 feet to the surface) and the volume will double. The video of Mr. Savage ascending using the regulator shows continuous breathing, which is enough to give expanding air a chance to escape, however in a panic, it is more instinctual to hold one's breath until you are back into an airspace.
If you want to know the dangers of AGE, then read this: http://www.diverescue.com/autopsy.html
If the car was airtight, then gas would not escape and the pressure would not equalize and the occupant could not escape (except by destroying the integrity of the vessel [i.e. break the glass]) by opening the door until they passed out from hypercapnia and then shortly thereafter dying from hypoxia.
Warning!!!: Science Content
Let us assume that the roof of the car is airtight, so no bubbles will escape the car. The floorboards are not airtight, so water can freely pass through it (thus the vehicle as a whole is a flexible container). If the car settles at a depth of 15 feet in fresh water, then the ambient pressure will be 1.44 ATA (atmospheres absolute) {15/34 + 1}. The volume at this depth will be 69.4% of what it was at the surface {1/1.44}. So just by the increase in pressure the gas volume (e.g. air bubble) would be reduced by ~30.6%.
Anyway, suppose the occupant takes a deep breath, filling the lungs, breaks the window and exits. As they ascend, the pressure is reduced, and the air (since our bodies are very flexible containers), expands. If that person held their breath, the lungs would increase in size by ~30%.
Warning!!: More science content!
Lungs can hold 4L to 6L of gas while 'inspiratory reserve' (the room for extra air beyond a normal tidal breath) is about 3L. If a person takes a deep breath (something you see in every movie, TV show, or other media before someone puts their head underwater) then they might have 7L - 9L of gas in their lungs, so it is already at max capacity. Increasing that volume by 30% can definitely bring about some injuries. Now why, some may ask, can a free-diver (person that hold their breath for the entire dive) can take a deep breath, go deep down and come up with injury? Well the volume in their lungs is certainly compressing, however when they ascend and surface, it will [assuming they did not exhale anything] return to the exact same volume as when they started.
The pressure increases on descent, so the volume decreases and the density increase, all by the same factor. This is simple physics and I am surprised that so many seem confused and suggest that just because the depth is shallow that there is no problem. No wonder the hosts make so many comments about the fans complaining how they get it wrong when this concept is so hard for some to grasp.
The simple fact is that a person can get an air overexpansion injury by taking a breath a depth and ascending while holding that breath at even a shallow depth. Even consider doing this at 5 feet. {5/34 +1} = 1.14; {1/1.14} = .87; 100-87 = 13% [for every 34 feet you descend in fresh water e.g. the pool, 33 for salt water, you increase the pressure by 1 atmosphere]. So if even at 5 feet one were to take as deep a breath as they can from an air pocket and ascend, the gas would expand 13%. An extra 13% of pressure in a car tire isn't going to bother anything, but in the soft tissue of the lungs it might be different.
Since the lungs are flexible (i.e. not made of steel), the air will expand. If you exhale on ascent, then there is an easy method of escape, but if it is held, then injury can occur. Please read up some more on Boyle's Law if you have further questions. If you feel I have any of this wrong, then please demonstrate using solid examples and share the math calculations (especially if any of mine are wrong).
http://home.flash.net/~table/gasses/boyle1.htm
The show is designed for entertainment (and accomplishes it quite well), but I love the way they bring in scientific aspect such that the lay person can understand it. Sure, maybe a lot of things can be done differently, but they seem to try to be broad enough to cover the most likely scenarios. - lonnymac0307, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm very impressed with the information about how the lungs expand and the education on gasses and density. If you’d email me at Lonny(ampersand)escapetip(dot)com, I’d appreciate it. I know that I will get some razzing for what I am about to write next but here it is. I am one of the most informed people in the world when it comes to the issue of vehicle immersion drowning. I have catalogued several gigabytes of information including over 3000 U.S. deaths from our own government records. I also have reports, studies, opinions, and new pieces from researchers, safety experts and the news media. A small portion of recent and related information that I’ve gathered on the web is kept on my website at http://www(dot)escapetip(dot)com/News_Links.asp .
After all this research, here is what I have found to be the best advice currently available to maximize your chance of survival. This information was recently published by a Canadian research team. The Canadian study was (named Operation ALIVE) completed by the University of Manitoba and presented to the Canadian Multidisciplinary Road Safety Conference, in June 2006. Vehicle submersion crashes were studied and broken into three phases. During the first stage, (called Floating) most vehicles will float for 30 seconds to two minutes before water comes to the bottom of the windows. During the “Floating” stage, windows can usually be opened to permit escape. If they can not be opened, BREAKING THEM IS ADVISED. Doors SHOULD NOT be opened except as a last resort as it causes water to rush into the vehicle and could prohibit escape as the vehicle fills quickly with water and sinks immediately. This floating stage offers the best chance for escape. In stage two, “Sinking”, water covers the entire vehicle but, an air pocket remains. The pressure differential from water outside and air trapped on the inside of the vehicle can make windows and doors very difficult or impossible to open. Occupants can still breathe, but may not be able to get out. In stage three, “Submerged”, the vehicle is full of water and may or may not be resting on the bottom. Chances of survival are minimal in this last stage.
This research validates most of what we’ve been saying since we first started our drive to make vehicles just a little safer. Our stance is, and has always been that;
The longer you stay in a vehicle,
The farther the vehicle gets from shore,
The deeper the vehicle gets,
The more likely you are to DIE. Re-read what I just wrote. Look at how obvious it is. Try to imagine how incredulous I am that there are still people calling themselves experts that want to argue this point with me.
Keep these things in mind as you are taking all of this in. The car is a write off as soon as you enter the water. I say this because the second it goes in the only important thing on your mind should be human life. Pets and possessions are secondary. The car itself is of no consideration.
Many television personalities that have staged elaborate demonstrations of this type of accident for a video segment have failed to get out of the vehicle the first time they attempted it using the advice of some expert. They often show several attempts in order to see a successful egress. Failure in the real world means death.
I am very comfortable recommending the following; In real world vehicle immersion situations there is one best solution to this crisis. It is a modified version of what Dade County Florida firefighters have been advising with their POGO message for years:
Pop the seatbelt(s) - Get everyone in the vehicle unrestrained immediately after entering the water and get them ready to exit the vehicle. (remember, no one should attempt to open a door unless as a last resort as it will flood the vehicle immediately causing it to sink rapidly.)
Clear Opening - Break the window(s) as soon as everyone is ready to make their exit as well as help those that need it. (Rolling a window down is a secondary plan if the means are not in a vehicle to break the glass. Breaking the glass protects against an electric window failing mid-way or is the only solution for people whose window controls are locked out by driver controls. We are hoping to have the escape tip www(dot)escapetip(dot)com installed in all vehicles coming off the assembly line in the near future)
Get Out – Once the glass is eliminated, everyone exits the vehicle quickly. The recent Canadian study I mentioned validates this methodology as the preferred manner to maximize success in surviving a vehicle immersion accident. - Lazrius, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7I actually go to Campolindo High School where this segment was filmed and I got to see them taping this at our school pool.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8@zeno60
assuming there's no other problem like wet relays and motors being relied on to drop the window, there's absolutely nothing stopping him dropping the window, the pressure from a fluid simply isn't anywhere near enough to stop the glass sliding. in fact, some public safety adverts tell people who live near water to carry an emergency hammer for this situation--because the pressure, yet again, won't change how easily glass shatters either. and as a last resort, if you don't have a bonded windscreen, the same adverts tell you to throw your shoulder against the windscreen until it pops out of the frame.
the more you know, huh? - tdskate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So how can you escape your car than???
- smackhero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0by getting a car that has inward-opening doors ofcourse!
- Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Does anyone have a link to YouTube or something? Apparently my connection isn't fast enough to stream it live, so it won't let me watch it at all. I thought that's what buffering was for...
- zm634, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3If they were power windows, the motors would have shorted out by then. But yeah, water pressure and all that. Only after the entire car fills with water could he even attempt to open the door.
- kaph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Same problem here...apart from the T1 connection (i'm too embarrassed to tell mine) is this the digg effect or the dumbass effect, probably the latter in my case.
- FlapJaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Adam died shortly after trying again.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I'd like to see adma cessler drwoned alive...
Hes one crazy digga - FelixdaaHack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1He hardly "Drown", his dive buddy was right there with a regulator, I wanna see carnage dammit!
- matthistory, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1a picture of the only known man to survive a sinking car
http://www.selectparks.net/img/sars.gif - MonkeyFarts, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1You're only real chance of having the windows open is to have had the windows open _before_ your car touches the water.
- Carramrod72, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I would have used my patented berserker attack to easily free myself...
Seems like it would be easy to open the door. But what do i know. You'd probably find me dead with the door open and my shoelace stuck on the brake pedal. - directedition, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3590MB for a half hour show? I don't think so.
- Aeiri, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Digg down.
- bizkit00, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1open the window to equalize the pressure, then open it easily?
- Devoboy, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2I'll just roll down my window.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+2they did this at my school! I saw it a few weeks ago on the security camera footage, but it's much cooler at more than 2fps. They got angry though because everyone was making too much noise at a staff football game.
- Jonh, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1That means, if i ever fall from a bridge in a car, i'll actively try to open the door before touching water, and then get the hell out of there as soon as possible. Remember that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1and you dont think after falling from a bridge... the water might slam the door closed on you? remember.. Pressure?
I think he would have made it if he waited longer and didnt exert himself right away - flessa, on 10/12/2007, -17/+3or you could just torrent the episode
http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/1032648/Mythbusters_Underwater_Car_01_24_2007?tab=trackers#torrent - atlex2, on 10/12/2007, -19/+2he could have kicked out the window or simply rolled it down....
- Crass22, on 10/12/2007, -23/+3Lol bob sagets.
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