What is Digg?395 Comments
- iTorrey, on 10/12/2007, -9/+64@mocheeze
So every American before 1913 was a freeloader? You do realize that many times before 1913 there were attempts to pass an income tax and they were ruled unconstitutional right?
This country operated for over 100 years without an income tax and those people were certainly not freeloaders. As a matter of fact, how much of the income tax do you think actually goes back into infrastructure? Schools are paid for by property taxes, roads by the gas tax and on and on. Our income tax goes to paying back the debt on the money we borrowed from the federal reserve which again, didn't always exist in this country and is not much more federal than Federal Express. - paulwelch, on 10/12/2007, -18/+67My wife and I just sat down and watched this. As far as I'm concerned, it's a must-see. Be advised that it will take a couple of hours, but it is worth it.
- Chairboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+46Fight police brutality, protest the government when they overstep their bounds, assert your rights whenever and wherever you can!
....but don't piss off the IRS. Those are the guys that got Al Capone. - aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -26/+66...you know how we know the makers of this video do pay their income taxes?
Because they're not in jail... - LucianSolaris, on 10/12/2007, -14/+53nice try idonthack, here is one of 8 supreme court cases that nullified that amendment:
United States Supreme Court, Brushaber v. Union Pacific R. Co., 240 U.S. 1 (1916)
Quote from opinion (ruling):
"The provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation . . ."
Don't believe me, google the case. Supreme court rulings dont sunset, they are just as much law today as when they were made. - dillrus, on 10/12/2007, -23/+58And just what do you think would happen if we all stopped paying income taxes? I don't think you'd put it in the "win" column overall.
- toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -47/+81as much as everyone hates taxes, they are necessary to have a productive and efficient government. I do not like heavy government spending and I want a smaller federal government but taxes are a necessary evil and they are a small price to pay for the lives we live here in America. There should be less spending but Income tax or another more practical replacement is necessary
/dont like taxes
//doesnt want our society to fall into anarchy - MikeWeller, on 10/12/2007, -6/+40In short, there is no law that says you should pay income tax. The federal reserve was formed by a cartel of world bankers who wanted to control the government and the people through the economy.
The supreme court previously ruled that the federal reserve has no power to tax people on their income, and yet they managed to stage a 'coup' of sorts by bribing people in the government to allow them to establish the federal income tax system. This happened way back in 1913 or so, so it has been long forgotten by the people.
This is a credible film with interviews with many IRS agents, as well as a former director (iirc) of the federal reserve. In a wider context the film also deals with the impending police state - id chips, the cashless society etc. All these things mean greater control to the government/bankers and less freedom for us. - coinman987, on 10/12/2007, -15/+48This is definitely worth watching. It was really well made but be warned after watching this it will make you extremely angry as it did to me.
- AAjax, on 10/12/2007, -21/+53Arron Russo is a patriot. Not too many of them around anymore.
- Darmichar, on 10/12/2007, -14/+44I agree.
Not paying your taxes is not the answer.
Being more vigilant about how the taxes you do pay get spent is a much wiser choice. - starvingben, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32The basic idea is that there is no law actually requiring regular employed workers to pay an income tax on their labor.
This is because:
1. Article I, Section 2 of the constitution clearly states that the government cannot impose an unapportioned tax (clearly redistributed directly back to the people)
2. The supreme court ruled that the sixteenth amendment granted no new powers of taxation, this is because an unapportioned labor tax would be unconstitutional
3. The IRS tax code itself refers to the requirement of individuals to pay taxes on their labor as "voluntary compliance"
4. The enforcement of "voluntary" reporting of earnings is a violation of your fifth amendment right to be free of forced self-incrimination (you can be jailed if you don't report your earnings and you can be jailed if you lie about it, that is self-incrimination)
The movie shows a number of former IRS agents who have got public with this information, even won their case when sued by the IRS for making "fraudulent" claims.
The movie summarizes this information with how the IRS acts with an unchecked aggression and engages in unlawful behavior, and ultimately they are enforcing their illegitimate authority at the barrel of a gun. Alternatively, they show how a number of individuals and groups have been successful in court with this information and they are now free from the authority of the IRS.
Most people's first response to this information is that we couldn't have roads ect. without income tax, but gas taxes pay for roads, property taxes pay for schools, ect. on down that train of thought. The other question is how could the government exist without income tax? Well they were doing it for 124 years until 1913 so it's probably not impossible. - jonathantneal, on 10/12/2007, -19/+46idonthack, did you watch the video? The XVI Amendment does not provision a direct tax, and .. if you watch the video, they will sight several court cases which clearly state this, from 1913 all the way to present day.
- coinman987, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33I'm also thinking of not paying taxes if I weren't so afraid of the IRS and going to prison. Which leads to wonder if there is anything that we can do and not end up in prison, if this what this video says is true.
- Mudcrutch, on 10/12/2007, -16/+39@mocheese --
you obviously didnt watch the video. they explain all that.
I have no idea why people are digging up your comment. - thorgrim, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26@ dillrus
You need to watch the movie because it clearly states that the amount of money US citizens pay into the federal income tax system doesn't even fully cover the interest payments on the national debt, and that the US military is funded by corporate income tax, and the road infrastructure by the 42 cent/gallon gasoline tax. Not a single cent of money the citizens pay into federal income tax is used for a single program that the federal program runs...not one.
@ kgilkerson
If it has to be paid, the wording for the tax code shouldn't call it "voluntary compliance" and the Supreme Court of the United States wouldn't have said the IRS has no authority or power to tax labor and wages since this issue first arose in the late 1800's. - culbeda, on 10/12/2007, -12/+30This makes me angry because this is the same kind of crap that my father practiced and tried to get me to practice some years ago. This crackpot movement has been going on for at least a decade and probably a great deal longer.
And while my father hasn't been sent to prison, he's lost all of his social security, can't own a home, have a bank account and all the money he "saved" by this method was (allegedly) stolen because he was foolish enough to keep it all in his house. And this doesn't even take into account the harassment by the IRS.
As I have aged and matured, I have also come to understand that taxes are the fuel of any major civilization and just how important a healthy middle class is within those civilizations.
So before you try to oversimplify things because you're looking for a reason not to pay income tax, keep in mind what they pay for. (That includes the enormous military we're all so proud of.)
So try this if you want to. But I guaranty that it won't be any happier and all you're really doing is screwing the rest of us. - voyetra8, on 10/12/2007, -11/+28Good luck not paying your taxes. I have some news for you: it doesn't matter what anyone says, you are still on the hook.
If you think the federal government is going to allow the termination of its own blood supply, you are sorely mistaken.
Read up on noted tax protestor Irwin Schiff, who is currently serving a 13 year prison term for tax crimes at Fort Dix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff - acff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_arguments
read this for a more thorough examination. - argoff, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23How about ... "don't pay income taxes and don't file because they're acting like thieves and frauds that are violating my privacy and economic liberties" ... instead of "don't pay income taxes and don't file because of this technicality in this law in that section in that paragraph and that title that can't be found". Lets just be honest about it, this is a tax revolt and that's a good thing. We shouldn't hide behind a bunch of legal technicalities, we should just do it.
For the first century of the US, total taxes were well under 5% per capita. One would think that with industrial technology and modern times making things so efficient, that taxes should now be even lower. But instead just the opposite happened, between sales, state, federal, income, property, and a zillion other little taxes most people are paying over 50% of what they make. On top of that, the money we make is being watered down. We are long overdue for a revolt. - cjennings, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18voyetra8,
Irwin Schiff is one of the reasons to watch this, this video provides transcripts of his trial and proof of his constitutional rights violated in a court of law. The judge in his case wouldn't allow the jury to hear laws stated in previous SUPREME COURT CASES!
The Former IRS agent in the film was charged for not paying his taxes but the jury found him INNOCENT, as well as 24 other members of this movement.
I wish people would actually watch this before typing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Mainly the fraud that is Social Security would disappear. Which I have absolutely no problem with. It's a ponzi scam and anyone who doesn't realize that isn't paying attention.
Your everyday utilities and things like roads, education, etc... are paid for using mainly state taxes and built-in consumption taxes. - digboy99, on 10/12/2007, -11/+24I have not watched the video, but based on some of the comments, it sounds like it leaves some of you to consider not paying your taxes. Be advised from somebody who knows of people who have tried to avoid the tax-man. Unless you want to face stiff penalties (prison), do not be so foolish. As somebody else suggested, spend your energy helping the less fortunate.
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18"Supreme court rulings dont sunset, they are just as much law today as when they were made."
Thats not true at all. Just look, the first amendment sunset in 2002. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I thought this was an interesting video too, until I wikipedia'd some of the court cases and found that the movie actually fudged a bit of the details... like in the court case where they said the guy won by arguing it wasn't constitutional, it was actually due to a technicality. I don't remember all the links (did it months ago), but yeah... check out some of the "facts" before you go ***** your life over
I'm not saying the video doesn't make good points, I'm just saying it is a bit deceptive in how "clean cut" and "clear" it appears to make this issue. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Do more research before you guys digg ***** like this
Me and my buddy looked into this and e-mailed the IRS directly about it
Over the years the supreme court has determined that the law is unclear and has cleared it up time and time agian
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106502,00.html
You have to pay taxes because they say you have to, yes it is ***** up and I think we should be outraged but if you don't pay your taxes they're going to come after you
I'm still confused however on how these former IRS agents do it, I'm think either really good lawyers or their fast knowlage on how not to tip off the IRS or something.
I was hopefull too, sadly this is a complete farse
Though the movie was still great, may 2008 will be the downfall of our society. - falstaff, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25@idonthack:
also http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/IncomeTax.htm
Look, I don't think the tax current system is fair, nor is it the best system possible, and I'd certainly love to tell the IRS to stick it. However, there are plenty of people in jail for, you know, breaking the law when it comes to paying taxes. Tax law is just like anything else, if you choose to protest, be prepared for the consequences. - jonathantneal, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17I'm sorry to make a double post, but I didn't get my second draft published in time. They address the XVI quite liberally in the video - they claim that the XVI Amendment applies to profits and gains, not on labor and wages (again, court cases are sighted to back this statement).
On the other hand, I was left desiring further explanation into 'profits and gains' versus 'labor and wages' and how it all applies in this day and age. I'd like to hear the intelligent response, because I believe it IS out there. - GeneralAntilles, on 10/12/2007, -14/+25Who the hell decided to give TAX AGENTS access to firearms? IRS is out of control.
- captainktainer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18The federal courts have consistently and unanimously found that these little "technicalities" do not exempt you from having to file an income tax return and paying your taxes. No serious legal scholar, judge, or ethical lawyer will agree with this fraud. The intent and plain meaning of the statutes and relevant court cases are very clear: you pay your taxes, just like everybody else. If you don't, you go to jail.
- thorgrim, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Corporate taxes already fund 100% of the US military. You're fire dept is funded by local taxes, not federal income tax, which is the crux of this entire debate.
- Wiltravo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'm sorry, but some of the posters are getting Federal Income tax confused with all taxes. Please ppl
watch the video or/and do some research on the subject b4 commenting. Of course they're
taxes that's vital to the U.S., just not the Federal Income tax. - mirunit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Well Cicero was a wise man, however. In this day in age where it is "what your country can do for you" in terms of social welfare etc, it is nearly impossible not to be in debt. Nearly ever 1st world country in the world - regardless of military size - has debt.
For instance.
Japan - Debt = 158% of GDP
Italy - Debt = 108.8% of GDP
Canada - Debt = 69.6% of GDP
Germany - Debt = 67.3% of GDP
France - Debt = 66.2% of GDP
USA - Debt = 64.7% of GDP
Sweden - Debt = 50.4% of GDP
UK - Debt = 43.1% of GDP
Spain - Debt = 42.9% of GDP
Now, just are just a few examples but still..
Chile - Debt = 7.5% of GDP
Estonia - Debt = 4.8% of GDP
It seems, if you are a first world country, you have debt. If you want to get out of debt, revert to a 3rd world nation. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@ shark615
Wrong. In particular, allowances for capital expenditure and the amount of interest payments that can be deducted from gross profits when working out the tax liability vary substantially. Also, tax rates may vary depending on whether profits have been distributed to shareholders or not. Profits which have been reinvested may not be taxed.
Not all money a corporation receives on goods/services is counted as taxable profit, but thanks for playing.
Also, calling me an idiot? Quite a cunning tactic I must concede. It definitely lends credibility to your argument. /sarcasm - idonthack, on 10/12/2007, -44/+52http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html
Amendment to the Constitution allowing income tax. - growler1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10There are a lot of people who make the lecture circuit with the very argument that the video above defines. They make a lot of money telling people they don't have to legally pay their income taxes, then they don't pay theirs, and then ultimately, they go to jail. So do their followers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion#Tax_protestors_and_tax_resistance
I think we'll have to get tax reform the old fashioned way--by voting for people who are committed to fixing a broken system. - shodanx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12the film was shown on an inflatable screen on a beach near the Cannes festival, it wasn't on the program and if it got a standing ovation it's because the people on the beach were already standing when they walked past the screen
- PanXIII, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@LucianSolaris.crank
A court decision cannot nullify an an US Constitutional Amendment. That's sorta Constitution 101, so things aren't looking so good for your argument, such that it is.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=240&invol=1
That's the case you cite, and I search for your phrase, ""The provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation . . ." and lo and behold it isn't in there. So let's search for merely "power of taxation" and these are the hits:
"We are of opinion, however, [240 U.S. 1, 11] that the confusion is not inherent, but rather arises from the conclusion that the 16th Amendment provides for a hitherto unknown power of taxation; that is, a power to levy an income tax which, although direct, should not be subject to the regulation of apportionment applicable to all other direct taxes. And the far-reaching effect of this erroneous assumption will be made clear by generalizing the many contentions advanced in argument to support it, as follows..."
and...
"That the authority conferred upon Congress by 8 of article 1 'to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises' is exhaustive and embraces every conceivable power of taxation has never been questioned, or, if it has, has been so often authoritatively declared as to render it necessary only to state the doctrine. And it has also never [240 U.S. 1, 13] been questioned from the foundation, without stopping presently to determine under which of the separate headings the power was properly to be classed, that there was authority given, as the part was included in the whole, to lay and collect income taxes. Again, it has never moreover been questioned that the conceded complete and all-embracing taxing power was subject, so far as they were respectively applicable, to limitations resulting from the requirements of art. 1, 8, cl. 1, that 'all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States,' and to the limitations of art I., 2, cl. 3, that 'direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states,' and of art 1, 9, cl. 4, that 'no capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration hereinbefore directed to be taken.'"
That case seems to be dealing with what type of tax, direct or indirect the tax in question to the case was, and therefore whether or not it was to be applied uniformly or by apportionment state to state. The decision seems to be saying that the 16th Amendment (far from being nullified") rendered that argument moot.
Regardless, folks got to court and are found guilty for tax evasion all the time, mostly those with the $$$$ to hire pricey lawyers and if they can make this supposed case that court precedent has deemed income tax illegal, then it obviously isn't the case.
The "income tax is unconstitutional" shtick is pure crankery. - cjennings, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12only a portion of this video is about not paying taxes, the last hour of the movie is about how the banks that form the Federal Reserve are making us slaves - and how to avoid a world government that they're planning - which I think is the most outraging. all of this probably sounds a bit far fetched, but this documentary will show you judges, politicians, IRS agents, ALL dodging questions to cover up this fraud.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14No one is saying to stop paying taxes altogether moron, they're only talking about the Federal Income tax.
Someone needs a few lessons in listening comprehension it seems. - nypix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Prisoners with no income pay no taxes.
- skhisma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@ufia
I agree. It's rediculous for most of us (i'm sure there are a few lawyers reading digg) to claim we really know what goes on in a courtroom or in all these laws we're supposed to abide by. But isn't that kind of sad? The fact that the average Jane or Joe really doesn't know how all of this governing stuff works? - jakenjill, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@ LucianSolarius:
One of the many Supreme Court cases that find people that follow this video's advice are criminals:
Cheek v. United States 498 U.S. 192, (1991).
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=498&invol=192
Here is the opinion of the case you cited...where is that quote?
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=240&invol=1 - spkaine, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Yeah, it's a great video if you want to get in trouble like Wesley Snipes:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/snipestax1.html
More from IRS.gov
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106500,00.html
Obviously, people fall for this stuff all the time. Good luck beating uncle sam. - parkerm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10There was a group of people around here (about 10) that bought into this story a few years back. They are all in jail (2 Yrs) and their personal property confiscated. There is an answer though, see www.fairtax.org that would eliminate the IRS and make April 15 a National Holiday. The FairTax needs your support, it is gaining momentum in Congress but needs pressure from the people to put it over the top.
- robio376, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10This is exactly what the government wants. Conform to laws that do not exist on paper. Threaten you with prison if you do not conform to those supposed laws. The video is correct is that there is no law requiring you to pay FEDERAL income tax. It is written to be voluntary not mandatory. I believe we do need the government for certain situations. But for them to deny us or civil right by showing if the law exist or not is unconstitutional. The term "for the people, by the people." means nothing anymore. Freedom is just seven letter word with no meaning to many. State taxes are the only good taxes as they do help the State where you live. I for one will not be filing FEDERAL taxes. You can digg me down all you want because that is one of the few "freedoms" that you have left. Or you can digg me up because we deserve an answer!!!
- Wiltravo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm sorry, but some of the posters are getting Federal Income tax confused with all taxes. Please ppl watch the video or/and do some research on the subject b4 commenting. Of course they're taxes that's vital to the U.S., just not the Federal Income tax.
- hydralisk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad held that the 16th Amendment didn't _add_ a new power of taxation because it _modified_ an old one. The modification was the removal of any requirement for apportionment of income taxes.
So much for this video. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12@ brickbat
ROTF! Corporations don't pay ANY income tax dude. They build it into the price of their products/services and pass it along to the consumer. In effect, the consumer is double-taxed.
This of course would cease under the Fair Tax plan. - orientis, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15@jonathantneal It's CITE you illiterate goon. Read a book ffs.
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