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- whymanwhy, on 11/27/2007, -25/+487Look at the connection between the highest quality of life in the world and the list of countries with the highest taxes. Yes they pay a ton, but the folks in Norway don't have terribly corrupt people throwing all their taxes away like we do in the US.
- kaelyiesta, on 11/27/2007, -39/+336Probably one of the best examples to challenge my Libertarian beliefs and keep me thinking about this stuff. Dugg.
- ricksite, on 11/27/2007, -19/+310What if the US broke up the government into smaller Norway sized units called "states"? Then each of these "states" could make their own decisions and become like Norway if they so pleased.
- reeder, on 11/27/2007, -38/+264Propaganda is what we get on TV everyday telling us that corporate rape is a-OK!!!
And if you think spending money on health care is a waste, then shame on you. The US system is far more corrupt and wasteful than anything Europe has. Medicare drug benefit/ $500 billion give away anyone?
Are people like you completely brainwashed, or is it in tandem with sheer sefl-destructive idiocy? I've always wondered.... - du4l1ty, on 11/27/2007, -8/+192See, the problem with this is that you need a semi-responsible government first for it to work. America's screwed in that category...
- skeib, on 11/27/2007, -2/+175I live in Norway. While it is true that we have high taxes, they are not as high as 50%. I make approx. $75 000 a year and pay about 33% income tax on that. The average salary is currently $66 000, which is taxed at slightly less than 30%. There are higher taxes the more you make, with a roof at about 50% on income above $100 000 (but only on the part of the income above $100 000).
The health system really is as good as MM says. There are sometimes waits for less serious conditions, but everybody gets treated, and the maximum price paid for health care _and_ prescription medicine is less than $200 per person per year, the rest is paid for by the state. The parts about sending patients who need sun to sunnier places is also 100% correct. And starting a couple of years ago, even men get (mandatory) paid time off when having children. - aussieNickuss, on 11/27/2007, -13/+156Norwegians must have something in their water.....how could a country be so 'normal'?
- kesam, on 11/27/2007, -3/+144I'm from Norway. Of course things aren't as rosy as Moore tries to paint them, but the essential facts are correct. I haven't studied the tax system as a whole, but I can tell you about my situation. I currently earn about 300.000 kr a year (about $55.000) doing a Ph.D. (yes, they pay YOU to take a phd), and I pay about 32% income tax on this. In addition we about 25% sales tax on most items. I still have enough left over to rent my own place and live a social life.
This morning I went to the doctor. That cost me 175 kr (little over $30.) There is no such thing as health insurance in Norway, and when I saw Sicko I couldn't help but feel extremely sad for all the people in the US with insurance problems. - psyjoniz, on 11/27/2007, -4/+144"In 1999, when the US asked for extradition of an American prisoner, the Norwegian Supreme Court declared that most US prisons do not meet the minimum humanitarian standards."
- eivi, on 11/27/2007, -12/+124Well, to be fair we do have huge oil reserves, but we were a prosperous industrialized country before we found the oil, and our welfare system was created with no knowledge of future riches. Maybe it's because we're not trying to run our country based on political and economic theories which were made over 200 years ago.
- Dested, on 11/27/2007, -3/+111He's a witch!
- comradeTJH, on 11/27/2007, -5/+111Perfect. After living and working in the world's richest country Switzerland I could move back to my 2nd nationality Norway, world's highest living standard and enjoy my pension :-)
- nooreazy, on 11/27/2007, -17/+94Now the invasion to norway begins
- jo0zi, on 11/27/2007, -5/+77YouTube mirror,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LLQki-mQF4Q - Logicexe, on 11/27/2007, -22/+90Think about it this way, you're a libertarian but I'm sure you don't have a problem with a socialist police force, firefighters, or a state run military force. Most libertarians are willing to concede that in these cases it's better to have the government take care of it, but why is medicare any different? Why is a socialist military good, but a socialist medicare system bad?
I'm a Canadian and let me tell you, you'll never hear anyone complain more about our medicare system than anyone who's gone the emergency room on the weekend with a minor injury. Yes the waiting time is long, but at least I have the peace of mind to know that I am guaranteed service, there is no chance of my insurance company can refuse to pay for the treatment. - MacSuxWindozSux, on 11/27/2007, -7/+73They may pay more taxes, but they don't have other expenses that people have in the united states.
Michael Moore focuses on the medical bill issue.
It's two different views.
Either people all help each other and everyone is protected.
Or people contribute little, and pay their own way.
Some rich people, and some stupid poor people might think they can save a few dollars paying only what they need, but if you get a raw deal or you develop serious medical problems... you're screwed.
All the modernized democracies except the USA have everyone protecting everyone else. The American mantra is "Get rich or die trying." - Logicexe, on 11/27/2007, -18/+71Of course it's because of their oil, never mind the fact that various other nations without any oil are still able to afford good universal health care. Nope, only because of the oil. /sarcasm
You have an issue with paying for other people's health care and handouts, but did you ever stop to think that you yourself would benefit from these "handouts?" Why does the government have the right to tax you to pay for policemen, firefighters and the military but they don't have the right to offer medical care? Why not privatize the police! I'm sure charging a few thousand per visit would go over fine if it was good old fashioned capitalist police, not the crummy socialist police like we have now.
I mean obviously socialism is always bad, it's not like socialism and capitalism each have their own positives and negatives and if we want to live in a stable society we have to find balance between the two, No that's a load of hogwash, socialism is always wrong because we're American dammit! - tchynerd, on 11/27/2007, -16/+69wasn't this on Digg not 3 days ago?
- shabumike, on 11/27/2007, -18/+69Duplicate! It tells you that when you post and you post anyway? Obviously you aren't as intelligent as a Norwegian.
- inactive, on 11/27/2007, -20/+70i would gladly take 50% income tax and deal with women in power to live in the "best" country in the world.
It is only money you know. - igyigyigy, on 11/27/2007, -3/+53His point seems to be that in Norway people don't mind paying high taxes because their government provides high quality services to the people with that tax money.
The implication being that the US wastes its tax money and thus generates resistence to the entire tax system - seanieb, on 11/27/2007, -25/+71The US is the richest county in the world, bar none. If Norway can afford it so could the US (if they didn't have needless wars, corrupt politicians and defense budge thats nuts). The US also has the largest Oil reserves in the world.
Money isn't the issue here its political will. And I think a 50% tax is a small price to pay somy family, friends and country mendon't have to live in a hell hole.
And its your world view thats simplistic, your capitalistic every man for himself attitude is black and white and we live in a world of grey. Your veiw point doesn't allow for the notion of community.
My Killer point to your rhetoric is, how is this system you praise work? In the US you have a record crime rates and a massive amount of the population are broke. - inactive, on 11/27/2007, -10/+52you better believe it blood thirsty idiots. rehabilitation can happen without slaughtering or increasing crime rate.
surprise, it may decrease crime. who could have thought of it, certainly not a blood thirsty butcher executioner. - inactive, on 11/27/2007, -8/+47norway owns.
- shifty2, on 11/27/2007, -3/+42Is there anyone from Norway that can vouch for Moore's video on Norwegian's health care system?
Details on income taxes, tax distribution and the pro's and (more importantly) the con's of the health care system.
I am not a skeptic, but I'm sure there will be a good amount of people who want to call shenanigans on this one and they need to be properly educated. - grr74, on 11/27/2007, -6/+44Isn't it ironic then that Norway with 50% tax (as you claim, but I reject) has the most millionaires per capita in the world?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2007/jul/13/busine ...
Also consider Sweden without oil wealth, yet they also have a socialized health care system similar to that of Norway. And then there is Denmark... - inactive, on 11/27/2007, -27/+63Haha, you all just admitted that socialism is better. Which it is.
Norway makes money with nationalized industries. - TGMD, on 11/27/2007, -0/+35burn the federalist!
- Talena, on 11/27/2007, -9/+44Ahhh, don't say that, I bet most didn't realize this is what socialism means... they still believe the communist/socialist propaganda from the cold war...
- bashar129, on 11/27/2007, -1/+35Well, that's all I need to see. I'm moving to Norway and killing the first person I see...That resort...err...prison looks nice.
- Talena, on 11/27/2007, -3/+36Seriously, a country that supports torture does not meet minimum humanitarian standards
- impei, on 11/27/2007, -4/+36And why shouldn't a country's natural resources be used to improve the lives of all it's citizens rather than just a few?
- Sino, on 11/27/2007, -6/+38Now i wanna move to norway.......
- AndruC, on 11/27/2007, -4/+35Forget about Norway, come to Kenya!
- Logicexe, on 11/27/2007, -5/+36That's something I forgot to mention. When you need service now, far more often than not you'll get service now. It's easy to take a camera into a waiting room and film a bunch of sick looking people and say "Look at the evil socialist medicare! Look at all the people waiting for care!" never mind the fact that most of those people probably have minor cuts, a migraine or a fever.
- ajstewar, on 11/27/2007, -1/+32I so want to hate you right now. :)
- BoneheadFarker, on 11/27/2007, -5/+36After a suspected bout of appendicitus last year, I will never bitch about waiting for minor treatment again. I was in an MRI within 30 minutes of entering the ER...
- jdoe562, on 11/27/2007, -1/+31High taxes don't mean anything when the government won't let you starve, go homeless, or become bankrupted by medical fees.
- slut, on 11/27/2007, -2/+31wrong, taxes pay for those programs. They haven't decided what to do with their money from oil yet, it just goes in a big fund http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Government_Pensio ...
- DeviantDragon, on 11/27/2007, -30/+58Duplicate, already front paged and top ten even. But if this does unfortunately get repeated, then someone needs to quantify quality of life and examine relative tax cost of it. I know that higher taxed countries have lower poverty rate, higher life expectancy, etc. but I'd like to know if the amount of money they pay over American taxation makes it truly a big deal. Because of course, if it turns out that the US is actually performing on the higher end of quality of life despite lower taxes, then we can say that such heavy taxation is not needed to reach those standards. Summary: Can the US achieve as much success with less taxes and is the US's quality of life actually doing quite well relative to our taxation.
- luchid, on 11/27/2007, -13/+39Socialism doesn't work?! Quick! Someone tell the US Gov't to get rid of our socialized roads, socialized police and socialized education before it's too late!
- nallelcm, on 11/27/2007, -3/+28Oh how embarrassing :( Please don't advertise that you're one of us (Canadian)
- Logicexe, on 11/27/2007, -3/+27Baby steps, you can at least start by electing government officials who aren't anti-government. It's as if you elected PETA to run a veal slaughterhouse.
- MWeather, on 11/27/2007, -7/+31How much do you pay for health insurance? If you paid that money to the government instead, what would your equivalent tax rate be?
Or do you not even have insurance? - inactive, on 11/27/2007, -2/+25Next question, what is required for someone from the usa, to come there and become a citizen? I have searched the net myself and can't seem to find a lot of detail as to the requirements
- dukeochutney, on 11/27/2007, -5/+28i think im moving to norway screw the us
- DeviantDragon, on 11/27/2007, -5/+28Well arguments libertarians would make are that everybody benefits from the protective effects of national security and police and firefighting but on issues like health care not everybody would necessarily reap the benefits despite paying into the system. After all, Libertarians don't espouse a non-existent government. They believe a government's role is to protect a citizen's rights. This is accomplished through military and police whereas health care is not protecting any right that libertarians believe are fundamental while in fact infringing on one's rights to spend their money in as free a fashion as possible without infringing on others' rights.
- EarlOfLade, on 11/27/2007, -7/+30Failure to comprehend always results in ***** comments.
Norway oil income goes into 2 funds, The Government Pension Fund International or National. None of the oil income goes to pay for everyday expenses. Besides, Denmark, Sweden and Finland each have the same system and quality as Norway has and without oil.
It's not about oil income, it's about attitude, ideas and understanding of the future and a desire to make the country better for each and every citizen. - DeviantDragon, on 11/27/2007, -2/+25But they can bill later for the said treatment.
- soulkitchen, on 11/27/2007, -0/+23So, we're the skinniest kid at fat camp?
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