What is Digg?135 Comments
- qishi, on 02/16/2008, -0/+21This is an awful article. Hi-Lo is not the best counting method, but it's ok. But the article doesn't even make a passing mention of knowing basic strategy. It should be titled "how to use card counting to influence your bet". It mentions you swing the odds in your favor by 2% doing as the article says, but by just hitting/standing/doubling/splitting on a gut feeling is going to cost you big.
- JordanTW90, on 02/16/2008, -0/+19Counting cards may seem easy at first, but its hard at a real casino with quick players and many many hands to watch. With some skill it is very profitable however.
- putnam, on 02/16/2008, -5/+221+1+1+1 is not 2.
- mooseofshadows, on 02/16/2008, -0/+15This just makes me want to see the movie 21 more.
- subliminalurge, on 02/16/2008, -0/+14Exactly. I've been banned from the Casino Royale in Vegas for counting cards at their single deck table. (only ever got good enough at it to do it on single deck games.) Funny thing is, that was the only night on that trip when I actually wasn't counting. But my betting patterns were still consistent with what a counter does, so.....
What I've found is that it generally happens like this: First, the dealer gets suspicious, and mentions it to the pit boss. Next thing you know, the regular dealer goes on his "break" and is replaced by another dealer who knows how to count. He will be counting cards along with you, and if your bets match what a card counter would do, he'll inform the pit boss. If you're losing, no big deal. As soon as you start winning, expect a tap on your shoulder.
Generally, they will request that you not play blackjack in their establishment anymore, but let you know that you're free to stick around and play any of their other games. At this point, they're quite cordial, I've even had pit bosses grab a waitress to bring me a fresh drink during this part.
The problem comes in later in the evening when you get a good bit drunker, decide that "there's no way they'll recognize me out of all those faces", and go sit back down at the blackjack table again. This is when you're asked to leave the establishment and never come back.
Rule of thumb: When they change dealers on you, move to the casino next door for awhile. There are lots of good blackjack games in Vegas, if you know where to find them. No reason to push your luck at any one table. - birdly, on 02/16/2008, -1/+13Everytime I count cards, it seems like there are always 52.
- moofree, on 02/16/2008, -0/+9No it starts with A and it ends with A
- TheOther1, on 02/16/2008, -1/+10You have to know when hold em, know when to fold em
- springo, on 02/16/2008, -2/+11How to count cards: it starts with 1, then 2, 3, 4...
- kbeaver16, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7"How can ace be one AND eleven?! HUH?! What kind of God would allow that?" - Angry Native, Simpsons
- hansonc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7Of course you're playing against the house. Ever heard of the rake? You have to win enough to counter act the amount of every pot the casino takes for itself. If you don't have fresh money coming to the table regularly eventually everyone at the table will give all their money to the house.
- r4agreements, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7Read the book Bringing Down the House.
- w3b4ddict, on 02/16/2008, -0/+7The article specifically mentions it under the image: "warned that this picture is inaccurate. 1+1+1+1 does not equal 4."
- hansonc, on 02/16/2008, -3/+10nope. The rake will get you every time. Do you honestly think casinos would put anything on their floor where they don't make money hand over fist?
- booticon, on 02/16/2008, -0/+6Just keep in mind to be careful. Not only can a suspicious pit boss kick you out as mentioned in the article, but in a casino you have cameras watching you all the time. Surveillance is trained how to count cards so they know exactly what to look for.
- alphaeno, on 02/16/2008, -0/+6Do you have a site that is better?
- hansonc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+6know when to run
- RoanokeRich, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5know when to walk away
- RoanokeRich, on 02/16/2008, -0/+5Just remember not to count your money before the dealings done.
- zephyr42, on 02/16/2008, -4/+9Counting cards especially in blackjack is a little more complicated than they make it out to be. Usually the dealer in a casino will have a *spindle* of decks say, 8 or so. Using this method against that many cards takes waaaay too long and you have to remember a ton. It's best to just go and play and develop your own way of counting. See trends and find a way to predict them. If you're going to a casino to get money, poker is your best bet. You don't play against the house :-P
- ShuttleDisaster, on 02/16/2008, -1/+5no one...except the freaking article itself, *****.
- kbeaver16, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4That is not entirely correct. You have to count cards and WIN (big difference). A lot of people think that if you can count cards you win every time. Not even close. Counting cards just lets you know when the deck/shoe is in your favor. It doesn't mean that you won't pull a 16 against a dealer 10.
- inactive, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4Every game on the casino floor favors the house. But blackjack is as close to 50% as you'll see -- I think something like 48 or 49%. That 2% might be all you need.
- wildc4t, on 02/16/2008, -0/+4The casino is winning there too of course, but the thing is that you aren't playing against the casino. You're playing against other people, and the casino is getting paid to deal. So, it's still the only game that doesn't have incredible odds against you (unless you end up playin' with a pro, then you might as well be playing blackjack).
- zarex, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Jeez, people really need to do their research.
1. Counting cards is NOT HARD, no matter how many decks there are. It definitely takes practice, but the whole Rain Man myth is totally false. It's simple odds and probability, simple to analyze, and simple to implement with systems that do NOT require memory.
2. Making lots of money at it *is* hard, since in the best case (perfect memory, perfect play) you're only tipping the odds to 1-2% in your favor. So it takes a while, and if they figure out you're counting, they'll show you the door.
3. Counting *is* fun. I do it, and I usually win money when I gamble. But I'm also smart enough to know that there is NO POINT to trying to make a lot of money at it, since I can make much more money with a regular job, and with much less risk.
Between Rain Man and that dumb book about the MIT team they've really done a lot to confuse people about the reality of card counting.
For a good site, 100% accurate, see : http://wizardofodds.com/ - exbm2, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Oh N00s! I've been rick rolled.
- JordanTW90, on 02/16/2008, -1/+4Statistically yes. Even poker is built with a constant drain of money.
- PaulC, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3If you're the reading type, check out the book Bringing Down the House. The book is the true story of MIT kids taking Vegas for millions of dollars. I think 21 is based off this book, but in a bastardized, Hollywood sort of way. I'd really recommend you check it out!
- cafman, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Most casinos use continuous shuffling machines now. Every few hands the pull out a freshly shuffled shoe, meaning you have no time for your count to do any good.
- Laminarcissus, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3the only advice that's valid in card counting in modern casinos is "don't do it."
if you manage to find a single deck game, it's there as a lure to counters -- they watch your play until it's clear your counting and ban you from the whole casino as a cheater. that's how they fill their book.
regular games use a six deck shoe, and they only deal a third of the way into it before swapping in a new one. then they love for you to count, because you're betting more and more thinking you have a system, when they have actually taken away every mathematical advantage and more.
plus, unless you are playing /flawless/ basic strategy to begin with (meaning no mistakes in hours of play), you have invalidated any advantage you could ever gain in counting under any situation.
the only way to walk away from a casino with more money that you came with over the long term is to play poker, because then all your doing is renting a seat for the opportunity to take money from less skilled players. seriously, that's the only way.
if you want to get the most fun out of gambling while minimizing your losses, learn craps inside and out, shout a lot, but play conservatively. if you want to get laughed at by everyone else at the casino, play roulette.
there's nothing casinos like more than web sites publishing systems. - Slick50, on 02/16/2008, -0/+3Wait until the movie 21 comes out and then you won't need to read a book or even this article.
1. Sit in theater for two hours.
2. Sit at a blackjack table after watching movie.
3. Profit!
/ sarcasm - dualityim, on 02/16/2008, -3/+6"Statistically speaking, you are doomed to lose at every game on the casino floor"
Poker is the exception. - alphaeno, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Its fun...
- orxor, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2No the rake will not get you every time. You have to pick a table with players that are sufficiently weak so that you can beat them and the rake. Table selection is part of the game.
- Laminarcissus, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2uhhm, excuse me, but we're singing here...
- deadbeat75, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2It can't be done easily anymore. For card counting to pay off you have to vary your bets. (Minimum bet, minimum bet, etc. until the card count tells you the deck is favorable then bet large amounts of money.)
Try doing this and the pit boss will tell the dealer to shuffle every hand. (If not do something worse to you!)
Though this is why the pros worked in teams. When the deck is favorable, you signal your buddy to the table and he bets the table limit. Even so, it's probably not worth the trouble of trying anymore. - Zzone, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Statistically speaking, the only odds that are in your favor are the true odds in craps.
- orxor, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Not in any casino in Atlantic City, they can't kick you out for counting. They can mess with you like shuffle cards every hand, but they can't kick you out.
- Laminarcissus, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2actually physically counting in your head may be technically possible at a continuous shuffling table, but it's statistically insignificant, giving you the only thing casinos ever put on their Christmas lists: the false advantage.
single deck, classic rules tables are there for two reasons: to take money away from rubes the same way all other blackjack tables do, and as flypaper for counters. they watch those tables like a hawk, specifically to ban counters. it's how they get their quota.
trying to count at a single deck game is like trying to buy weed from an undercover cop - that's what they /want/ you to do. - freewheeling, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Only remember that a lot of single deck blackjack games pay 6 to 5 on blackjack.
Avoid those tables at all costs. - soupnrc, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Not really, it's a legit method that actually works, assuming you're smart enough to pull it off. I don't REALLY know how to count cards, but I know the odds better than a lot of people and I generally walk out with more money than I walk in with. I have limits and I play those limits. Sometimes I lose, usually I win. Just cause the casino statistically makes more money than it loses, doesn't mean that EVERYONE loses money over time. You just gotta know what you're doing walking in there or else they'll bend you over the table and take every bit of dignity you have.
- Laminarcissus, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2Hi zarex,
We noticed that you posted, "and I usually win money when I gamble," and we just wanted to let you know that we keep track better than you do, and no you don't.
That said, come back soon!
Love,
The Casinos - elipabst, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2I'm not a gambler, so you're going to need to explain that a bit more. If I understand what you're saying, you're correct that the chances of losing 6 hands in a row is rare, however the chances of winning each individual hand are independent so after you've lost 5 in a row, the chances of losing the next hand are the same as losing the first. It's just like flipping a quarter...it may be unlikely to flip 6 heads in a row, however if you've just flipped 5 heads in a row the chance of the net flip coming up heads is still 50-50. Or am I missing something?
- toolboxnj, on 02/16/2008, -0/+2I agree. Mezrich is one of my top contemporary authors.
- Nlewis4, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1the only way the house has an advantage is the hardways
- DannyDriffs, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1Read the first part first, bring mucho moolah!
Playing $5 or $10 hands with less than $500 is almost futile. - pinguy, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Yes you are right but how this technique works is you are not always playing with £/$5, if you was you would just loose, because you are doubling your bet when you loose a hand in theory you never loose a hand you win back you looses.
bet 5 =95
lost 0=95
bet 10=85
lost 0=85
bet 20=65
lost 0=65
bet 40 = 25
win 80 = 95
Where you win money is when you win more then two hands in a row and larger amounts when you double on 11 and split Aces and 8's. You will never make huge amounts of money doing it this way and its not fast. - jsbee, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1Bringing Down the House wasn't dumb. It quite clearly explained the theory behind counting; so nobody who read that book should have walked away thinking that counting is some genius-level task. If anything, the trailer for the movie implies counting takes enormous math skill (Where the main character is figuring out the tax to a suit and dress-clothes combination in his head: a talent totally irrelevant to maintaining a count and remembering basic strategy).
- orxor, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1That would have been true in the old days, the casinos have changed the game much since then. In the past dealers used a single deck, used the entire deck, and when they ran out of cards they just shuffled the discarded ones. The changes that casinos introduced increased variance and lowered the payers advantage. Also card counting can be very easy, it depends on the system, for example an KO system which is an unbalanced card counting system doesn't require that you convert the running count into the true count like the Hi/Lo system does is very simple and a system like the Uston APC is even more difficult since it requires you to keep track of the aces.
- alphaeno, on 02/16/2008, -0/+1I just read a brief summary of that :D
http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/novice/counting.htm -
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