What is Digg?105 Comments
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -1/+47The American business community was also very impressed with the propaganda effort. They had a problem at that time. The country was becoming formally more democratic. A lot more people were able to vote and that sort of thing. The country was becoming wealthier and more people could participate and a lot of new immigrants were coming in, and so on.
So what do you do? It's going to be harder to run things as a private club. Therefore, obviously, you have to control what people think. There had been public relation specialists but there was never a public relations industry. There was a guy hired to make Rockefeller's image look prettier and that sort of thing. But this huge public relations industry, which is a U.S. invention and a monstrous industry, came out of the first World War. The leading figures were people in the Creel Commission. In fact, the main one, Edward Bernays, comes right out of the Creel Commission. He has a book that came out right afterwards called Propaganda. The term "propaganda," incidentally, did not have negative connotations in those days. It was during the second World War that the term became taboo because it was connected with Germany, and all those bad things. But in this period, the term propaganda just meant information or something like that. So he wrote a book called Propaganda around 1925, and it starts off by saying he is applying the lessons of the first World War. The propaganda system of the first World War and this commission that he was part of showed, he says, it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies." These new techniques of regimentation of minds, he said, had to be used by the intelligent minorities in order to make sure that the slobs stay on the right course. We can do it now because we have these new techniques.
This is the main manual of the public relations industry. Bernays is kind of the guru. He was an authentic Roosevelt/Kennedy liberal. He also engineered the public relations effort behind the U.S.-backed coup which overthrew the democratic government of Guatemala.
His major coup, the one that really propelled him into fame in the late 1920s, was getting women to smoke. Women didn't smoke in those days and he ran huge campaigns for Chesterfield. You know all the techniques—models and movie stars with cigarettes coming out of their mouths and that kind of thing. He got enormous praise for that. So he became a leading figure of the industry, and his book was the real manual.
—Noam Chomsky
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.h ... - Link to Edward Bernays seminal work titled Propaganda.
He created the term public relations, and is a very interesting story. Probably my favorite unknown story of all time because it touches all of our lives directly. - beavioso, on 10/10/2007, -0/+41This is a small part of BBC's "Century of Self". It's available on google video, and it was split into 4 parts (each about one hour). The first one talks about his influence and the other 3 bring us closer to the present. It's a very good documentary on psychology's influence on marketing and in turn its influence on society in the 20th century. Highly recommended.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273 ... - iAlex, on 10/10/2007, -4/+33This is how the governments work today. Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Chris Dodd, Joe Biden, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, Sam Brownback, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter, Fred Thompson etc they are all part of the propaganda establishment. Don't support or vote for them. They will take issues you like and lure you into to supporting them. No wonder they get all the time on TV and in newspapers. But they are the same bad politicans you want to get rid off. They use terrorism as an excuse to remove your personal liberties and go into wars with other nations. United Kingdom's politicans (Tony Blair and Gordon Brown) remove their citizens' rights and lure them into wars, spying on their citizens, setup cameras in the public and record what you do. United Kingdom has really become a beta of the Necon dream of United States and that's how they want United States to look like. They keep you afraid by saying "terrorist, terrorism". Also, isn't it strange that a former mayor of New York (Rudy Giuliani) who was mayor during 9/11, a person that couldn't stop 9/11 wants to be in charge of the whole country. That would be really scary. He talks about 9/11 as an achivement and it is not! It is a disaster, and he is responsible for not protecting the citizens of New York on September 11. He is an incompetent lying person. Do you feel safe having the same guy that couldn't stop 9/11as the president of United States? Don't be too sure Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or John Edwards would restore habeas corpus, remove the patriot act, or anything else the necons have setup in the United States. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, really tries to distanse themselves from George W. Bush, and it isn't so hard. But you can't trust these people. These people support the corrupt Federal Reserve and IRS and they don't deserve your vote. These people have no plan to remove special interests groups. Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are for sure not in the establishment, and Dennis Kucinich is probably not aswell, so support them! Would you like to have a Bush and Clinton dynasty? NO way. George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, amazing how a president that got impeached can have a wife that runs for president and is on her way to get the Democratic presidential nomination. Also amazing that 2 political families can be in charge of America for so many years. Bush and Clinton are the same trash. They probably want Hillary Clinton vs Rudy Giuliani in the election and that would be a nightmare to vote for either of them. Don't make it happen! The most realistic scenario would be Ron Paul vs Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. Ron Paul vs Mike Gravel or Dennis Kucinich would of course be the dream scenario. I think unfortunately Mike Gravel or Dennis Kucinich won't get the nomination, but they should keep trying and raise the important issues the other politicans won't talk about!
Look at this political table: http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2007, and it looks to me that all the presidential candidates except Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul don't have the political positions you would like them to have. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and the other candidates are more like the neocons (and George W. Bush) than Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul are, as you simply can see on that political table. Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel seem to be the real left-candidates. Ron Paul is probably the best candidate to promote, since he has the biggest chance to win the nomination. And if he does, he will win and expose Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. And if he wins, Freedom will spread to Europe and around the world (and get rid of the necons of Europe, for example Nicolas Sarkozy). People will and must demand more from the politicans, and ask the tough hard questions! They don't on the moderated debates, not even the so called "web debates", they just choose the "easy" questions. Ron Paul is the only chance for the Republican Party to win. Support the right people for president (Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel), once and for all and get rid of the corrupt Establishment, so USA can get free for real! And don't let United Nations be in charge of USA. Get to talk about the Federal Reserve and IRS in public, and make it a political issue and ask the establishment candidates about it! Also ask if they would restore habeas corpus, and remove the patriot act, etc. They are really scared to talk about it, and that's why it isn't in their political agenda. Record it, spread it, and share it! This is not a conspiracy, it is the truth!
Here is Propaganda by Edwards Bernays: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.h ...
Make it happen people! Freedom awaits, and it is wonderful! - MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23I'd never heard of Bernays before this - very interesting video. Considering his quote warning against the military-industrial complex, it was surprising to see Eisenhower's actions regarding Guatemala.
- JerodSlay, on 10/10/2007, -2/+19I can't help but think that "terrorist" is today's "red" or "communist" Once someone has been labeled as such, they are thrown into detainment camps (same phrase from the camps for the Japanese (in America*) during WWII) and denied certain unalienable human rights such as habeas corpus. I look back on Senator McCarthy and how horrible of a person he was, but at the same time, he thought he was helping the world. I can't help but feel Bush is doing the same: Scarring the world and its citizens trying the help it. All in the name of Freedom.
*label me un-American now.................. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+17His quote warning against the military industrial complex was as he was leaving office. Remarkable things are said when you don't have an ability to do anything about it anymore. I could give you a ton of examples. It's actually strikingly similar to the day after legislation is passed. Pick up the New York Times the day after serious legislation passes and you will get the best analysis of it. When you can't do anything about it, people are much more willing to explain what is going on.
- wootup, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope ...
The United States has a history of overthrowing democracies, supporting tyrants, operating death squads and slaughtering civilians that would make even the worst of history's tyrants perk up with admiration.
The cycle continues, absolutely unabated, up to the present, with the most bloody examples being Iraq and Afghanistan, though also less overt anti-democracy coups or coup attempts in Haiti and Venezuela. The same corporate interests that ran America in the 1950's run America now, albeit with even more consolidated power. I can not stress enough the importance of dismantling American imperialism if we are to build a better world as a species. Though, oddly, the American media tends to portray America as a beacon of hope and liberty, and its stormtroopers as glorious and brave liberators. Why?
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." - Former CIA director William Colby - davidwasman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14Noam Chomsky is berated by right wing media for being a heretic, a loon, and a charlatan...for good reason.
He's pissing off the right people.
Noam deserves A LOT more credit and less bashing from right-wing zealots(Bill 'falafel' O'Reilly? Are you listening, you moron?). They're using their own 'gift' of manipulation to create a facade that doesn't fit Chomsky's true nature. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13I was illuminating the subject with a common introduction on the web to Edward Bernays seminal work. Chomsky has taught about Edward Bernays over a long history, and has really made the issue more well known. It's quite fascinating.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Excellent points. Our coup of Hugo Chavez was systematic, and almost succeeded. Without the direct contribution of the people standing up for their president, they would have a brutal dictator that in only 2 days dissolved the constitution which gives them the rights to over turn the president, and dissolved the supreme court.
Think about if someone did that to us. Honestly. Think about it. - matthud, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Upvoted. Century of the Self is a great documentary, and I encourage absolutely everyone here to sit down and watch.
- phnx0221, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11It's amazing to think that one man can harbor such arrogance and disdain for a mass public, as to think that people on their own cannot make decisions for themselves, and that when left to their own devices, they will often make the wrong decisions.
It is because of this one man, that we began facing such a massive invasion on our own independent thought. Not to mention, the outright LIES that were given to the american public, in order to protect the interests of a corporation, and by extent, the U.S. government, resulting in the deaths of thousands of people, and a coup on an entirely democratically elected country.
It is completely astounding that this has become a perfected norm for our society, and has resulted in the absolute brainwashing of us all in order to consume. Bacon and Eggs are the American breakfast, because hey, the doc's say it's good for you! Smoking cigarettes is your way as a woman to rebel against the change of society. Take control of your life and buy a pack today!
Thank you for posting this. It is knowledge like this that we desperately need if we are ever to become actively informed participants in our own country, society, and life. - allankh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11According to "The Century of Self", Bernays was Freud's Nephew, and Bernays borrowed heavily from Freud's theories. "The century of Self" is another extraordinary documentary from Adam Curtis and the BBC.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273 ... - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Freud's relationship with Bernays was very interesting. It seems Freud was okay with the money, but that was about it. Then later didn't even want the money if I remember correctly. Maybe he oscillated.
- Hetman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11People understand we are a democratic republic. We do not need it said in every thread.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Or they bring up that Ayn Rand hates him. Oooohh... I am frightened.
- lukifer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Every person in America should read the above. The success of the propoganda machine is staggering.
- 2reflective, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Excellent post! Glad you pointed out that this is not just a US issue. The same fear mongering is happening in the UK.
- sharpfork, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9 Edward Bernays then = Carl Rove in recent times.
- pr3998, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Countered by this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvcZiNt6ypI - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8There are certainly parallels, but Saddam was our friend and ally. There's a funny story from a woman that worked for the U.S. government as the communicator to Saddam. She explains that they told him he had 5 options concerning Kuwait. One of those was "readjust" borders. Saddam took this to mean that he could invade Kuwait.
We set Saddam up. It's really quite remarkable. You could even posit that he misunderstood the transmission.
But it's remarkable. - Achaean, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8i dont think Bush's or the neocon's motivation was to "help others" but that it was more so to help themselves to unchallenged executive authority and billions of dollars
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Talking about the surveillance, Big Brother state...the Economist has a fantastic article about it in this week's issue: http://economist.com/world/international/displayst ...
Give it a read. It's a very enlightening and pragmatic look at the issue. - phnx0221, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Your link didn't work because of the comma. :) Here it is. Brilliant post, btw.
http://politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2007 - Hetman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7This explains the apathy of today.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Yes, I would be quite happy with either if it helps remove these corrupt systems. Defending corruption is disgusting so maybe you agree with me too?
- davidwasman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8I see parallels between Iran's current President and that former Guatemalan President in the propoganda.
Same goes for Saddam. - davidwasman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Don't forget we also set up Osama, too, during the Russian fighting in 1981. We gave him CIA training and weapons to fight the Russians.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8What part of brutal dictator is difficult for you? What part of Guatemala had nothing to do with the Cold War as admitted by the people who enacted the terror do you not understand? Did you not watch the video?
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8No. Saying you are going to promote democracy is part of the propaganda. True Democracy is what human beings have wanted our entire recorded existence. We as a whole have been controlled by a small group of people for most of our existence. Some of us have been in positions where we profited off of it, and ignore the ramifications of our actions as long as we can continue to have entertainment.
But Democracy is the goal! The founding fathers were just as aware that they had to keep the masses from rising up. We have a brutal history of leaders attacking people for their rights. The national guard was called in and shot at strikers! Children. Mothers. Fathers. Slaughtered for wanting to work less, and get paid a little bit more of their hard earned work. It's their work, why can't they get a reasonable percentage of it. All of it if we are serious.
Children went with Mother Jones and marched from Colorado to New York to protest the president. The children who worked at the time carried signs that said, "We want to play."
If that doesn't move you, you aren't a parent. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7God DAMN you are an ignorant *****. I don't like Chomsky at ALL, but at least I can realize when he's making a salient point.
- SaTaNKiLLeR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Interesting video thanks notque. Blackwater the "mercenary" company has been in the news lately if your interested you should watch "Shadow Soldiers" it is a great documentary about "mercenary's" working in Iraq and around the world you can digg it here and find the link. oH and for you viewing enjoyment it is DivX :) http://digg.com/videos/educational/Shadow_Company_ ...
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I am very U.S. centric because I live here, but there's a lot to be said about Margret Thatcher's use of propaganda. The U.K.'s government was stuffy and boring for a long time. It wasn't really working very well, the people were intelligent and angry. They found out that if they used the same techniques, and hired Bernays to help, they could control the population by giving the British people what they wanted. Entertainment. They started catering to the likes of people. That was a radical shift in policy.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Actually, if you look at their pure ideology, the neocons really *do* think they're helping the world...in a Machiavellian way. The problem with the whole situation is: their ideology is just as flawed as pure communist ideology...they just more sure of their ideology...and that scares the living hell out of me. Just look at the "3 sentences that Bush scares me with" Digg article. The "I'm optimistic because I know I'm right" phrase sent chills down my spine.
- spyd3rweb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Bernays was a genius, Rove is just a hack. Comparing the two would be like comparing Yoda to Chewy.
- vermin, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Bernays gets a bad rap. You have to look at what he did within the context of the time he worked in. People did feel that the elite needed to control the masses. Democracy was not the major form of government that it is today. There was no guarantee that democracy could work, especially given the turmoil of the World Wars and the Depression. One cannot blame Bernays for how things have turned out today.
The other point to consider is that, many elites including Bernays and Strauss believed that ultimately, the masses were stupid and that the ends justified the means in the quest to control these stupid masses. In other words, to them it was OK to lie to the public to control them, as long as it meant no more descent into barbarity. That is why, concepts like "Freedom, Liberty and Justice for all" and "Spreading Democracy and ridding the world of evil tyrants" were used to control the population. The key point here however is, that the originators of this philosophy did not actually believe their ***** about Freedom and Liberty, they just knowingly used it to control the public. Fast forward to today, and the big difference between those early thinkers like Bernays and Strauss and the Neocons who currently wield power is that the current crop ACTUALLY BELIEVES THEIR OWN *****.
This is why Bernays and the like get a bad rap, because people don't easily see that crucial difference. Hindsight is 20/20. - WRXFiles, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Please - use line breaks and paragraphs. You message is tough to read without them
- coreyb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5One word... twisted.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5It's American to think about an issue and consider the actions our society has taken. To defend the population of the country and not just the rulers of it.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Thank you very much, I love the business press because it's the only news that will tell you what's going on in the world. It speaks honestly because C.E.O.s need that information to make decisions.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I have read books. There are a whole lot of books that talk about government propaganda. There are other books that talk about what happened.
So how can we wrestle this concept of two differing histories. One way is to look at the public record, information leaked from our government. None of this is in doubt. This is exactly what happened.
I think the best way to do this is to compare the people writing the books with as much history as possible. If you can verify it though understanding, and documentation you can consider it truth. You do that a few 100 times, and then you can start believing a side of truth only after an extensive history, but you need to compile those people together and bounce it off them, and never just dogmatically accept anything.
Consistent verification should continue throughout your life. Verify the history, and if it's undeniable because of evidence then commit as truth, and anything else is just nonsense, propaganda, or good intentions without a clear understanding of the issue which is quite easy given the massive amounts of propaganda. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Interesting argument. I don't see how you could be upset about Bernays' bad rap. The man created the concept about lying about science to profit off of it on a large scale manner. An interesting story about Bernays is that he created the American breakfast. The original all American breakfast was coffee and toast. No joke. Edward Bernays asked many doctors, "Is it better for you to have a hearty breakfast, or a light breakfast?" They responded hearty, and Bernays used this information to advertise that bacon and eggs were healthy for you. Completely deceived the public to this day.
What he should have done is advertised that they are delicious. That is what you do to talk someone into your product, and it isn't a lie because they are delicious. - cranium, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5About the last thing it covers is Dick Morris, Bill Clinton, and "triangulation". Morris is a clever bastard, you have to give him that. He's been stating matter-of-factly that Hillary will be the next president for a couple of years now. Because she learned Morris' technique of applying the principles of consumerism to politics, she's virtually unstoppable.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6That was awesome. Where the hell have you been? We need more rational people on digg.
- notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I agree. Communism is not the way to go. Bakunin warned of the dangers of the "red bureaucracy," which would prove to be "the most vile and terrible lie that our century has created." He was an anarchist, or in other words a libertarian socialist.
There are classes in society. One of them is the elite class. They are in control right now. Another class is the intelligent class. They are subservient to power currently and their job is to do the bidding of those in power and they get many spoils. Your highly paid television pundit. A lot of book writers, etc.
Well, Bakunin predicted that if the intellectual class was put into power it would be the worst form of oppression.
That's quite astonishing as no one else that I have ever heard of has predicted the future with such clarity. It was brutal, and one of the first things they did was jail the Anarchists.
Communism does not work. But there are other options to consider, and at least be open to research and discussion about. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Yes. I certainly hope that gets across to people. Hillary Clinton does his without a doubt. Obama has indicated this as well.
We are talking about propagandists, and another one is Reinhold Neihbur. He's the type of intellectual that writes to the elite class and gives them justifications for their actions. Look him up.
So, Obama was talking to David Brooks, who is one of the key people that repeats the government propaganda. He might as well be a commissar with his devotion to the government line. Obama told David Brooks that his favorite writer was Reinhold. David Brooks smiled widely, and the conversation went much smoother.
It was on digg. Look it up. The options the media presents are the ones that will continue to improve their media and corporate empire. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Line 1 I agree with. But we have improved our lot quite a bit since the days where one man owned an entire state of land.
Line 2 is true. It's supposed to be a Republic because it's easier to keep the herd in check. If it was a Democracy we'd actually help in making decisions and our leaders think we are too stupid for that. I think we wouldn't be killing people, which is backed up in the polls.
Line 3 is repeating the opposite of the truth in the hopes that someone doesn't know the truth, and thus can accept your version as there's a lack of a counter argument. You are lying because you think you know what's better for human beings. - notque, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Excellent, appreciate it.
- MixMastaKooz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Yes! That was a great documentary! Dugg!
- JerodSlay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5While all your replies to my comment are fair, I may have been misunderstood. When I said terrorism is today's communism, I wasn't speaking about anything inside those two ideologies. I was referring more to the war waged against them. remember the two Americans that were actually found guilty of being communists and were executed? You have to allow such freedoms of ideologies or where do you draw the line? Will Christians start persecuting atheists? or visa versa? The Muslims the Jews? We should be utterly careful about what we as a society actually demon-ize. PEOPLE HAVE TO BE TOLERANT is the message. Whites of blacks, blacks of whites... straits of gays... Christians of atheists, The Right of the Left, and the Left of the right..... men of women, women of men... etc. We don't have to accept and encourage such behavior we may find distasteful or wrong (say Christianity of homosexuality), but denying human rights is never a solution.
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