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192 Comments
- tuxchick, on 03/27/2009, -1/+94Hmm. So what's going to prevent ebooks from being bland, controlled by monopolies, overpriced and written by committees? I love the practice of changing six or seven words, calling it a new edition, and requiring it in place of the old edition. God forbid that used books should ever see the inside of a classroom.
- h0ser, on 03/27/2009, -6/+62and then the power goes out and nobody can read!
- AlanFang, on 03/27/2009, -1/+36Digg reform: Let's start by banning sensationalist article titles.
- shiftkgb, on 03/27/2009, -0/+30Textbooks are a racket, like said above, "change 6 words and call it a new edition and force the old one out". My only question is, whats to stop something like this from happening with ebooks?
- Nrvana423, on 03/27/2009, -0/+26I agree that text books are extremely overpriced, but changing the medium isn't going to change the price. It won't stop people from trying to make a profit either. The students won't see the money saved, it will go to someone's pockets. That, and once ebooks are implemented, it's only a matter of time before there are flashing ads of every page.
I would much rather open a physical book to read it instead of scrolling through an ebook. - DannoSpeaks, on 03/27/2009, -0/+24I don't agree with this at all. Yes textbooks are overpriced and monopolized, but there is no evidence that this wouldn't happen with digital books either. In fact, it's likely that it would. Also, at least in my case, I'm much better at reading a text book in hand, rather than on a screen. It has to do with the fact that there are so many other distractions in a digital medium. For some reason scrolling ahead in a text is easier to do for me than skipping ahead. Plus, what about about highlighting and bookmarking books? I went to engineering school, and believe you me that I was flipping back and forth to different areas of the chapter all the time while I was doing my homework. This doesn't lend itself well to a single screen.
- ltethe, on 03/27/2009, -5/+29That's your argument for protecting books in the classroom? Really? You couldn't find anything more immediate, logical, or pragmatic then the concerns of a civilization 4000 years from now trying to decipher our textbooks?
- newbill123, on 03/27/2009, -0/+23I hung on to the textbooks I liked and could afford after the class was over. I'm not saying that the texts were well written, but because it was what I used when I learned it, it always turned out to be the most accessible way to refresh myself with the material.
I'm pretty green in my use of water and materials, but this seems like an attempt to simply cut one of the manufacturer's costs without any direct benefit for the student. - BoneheadFarker, on 03/27/2009, -1/+21Textbooks in college aren't bad because the information in them is wrong. Accounting is accounting no matter who designed the textbook. No...college textbooks are bad because they publish a "new" version every ***** year that is merely the previous version with the pages jumbled up so that students are required to buy it new to match the teacher's copy...
- Omek, on 03/26/2009, -6/+26I applaud you, sir. Textbooks were the bane of my existence in college. It took me a few years before I was able to finally even pick one up again. Psychologically scaring... ;-)
- walshgopher, on 03/27/2009, -0/+20I love text books. I love how each one has a unique paper blend and smell that adds character to its text. I love how I can sit there with a highlighter and save all the really interesting bits to go back to later. I love using sticky notes. Introduction to Fluid Power by James Johnson was awesome and Electricity for Technicians by Frank Petrezula explains things so comprehensively without missing a beat. Why can't we have the best of both worlds?
- MarkusX, on 03/27/2009, -10/+26In 4000 years someone digs up an ancient landfill which promises to reveal some new knowledge about this ancient and dead language called "English" and the people who spoke it. They will find a textbook, suprisingly in fairly good shape, and a small metal box containing some metal disks, what these people must have called a "hard drive".
Which one do you think they will decipher first???
sarcasm/
I'm sorry, I forgot, the future technologies are all downwards compatible. Yeah right.
/sarcasm - cadmiumpaint, on 03/27/2009, -0/+16Public Schools can barely afford books, yet they'll magically be able to afford to buy every student a computer/laptop and staff enough IT people to maintain and replace those computers that will most probably get trashed every semester?
The author claims printed books are bad for the environment but he fails to consider the added electricity costs and environmental impact that an all digital classroom would bring. Go to a large public University like Ohio State and show me how much more electricity would be consumed if every student were only allowed to use digital textbooks? Electricity has to come from somewhere and that additional burden of every College/University/High School etc going digital only would be a massive burden on a over stressed power grid.
The writer of this article appears more like a tech fanboy than an expert on the publishing industry, education or sustainability. Provide some numbers and facts instead of broad sweeping generalizations and them maybe his opinion will mean something. Blue sky ideas are great but if you want it to be a real solution it has to be backed up. - cl2yp71c, on 03/27/2009, -0/+15How do you suppose the fundementals of Chemistry, Biology, and Physics would be taught?
I'm all for digitalizing textbooks and information, but textbooks(guides to certain material) are still an essential part of learning.
Amazingly, my CC uses very accessible textbooks which are both enticing and a pleasure to read.
The real solution here is to overhaul the education system. - Pottersquash, on 03/27/2009, -0/+14I think this is a given, although before paper goes bye bye for good, I must say I enjoy the tactile feel of dogearing pages to come back to, yellow highlighting that isnt perfect, and the ability to doodle in margins and the finding of others doodles and adding to the doodleverse.
- toastjam, on 03/27/2009, -4/+18if all knowledge of the English language has been lost 4000 years in the future... well, we've got bigger problems to worry about than backwards computability.
- tjsullivan1, on 03/27/2009, -0/+13FTA: "A typical textbook that might cost $24.99 at Barnes & Noble might be sold to schools or directly to students in college bookstores for $200."
That is why students can shop at B&N or Amazon... I saved $250 this semester by buying books wherever they were cheaper (some in my bookstore, some on Amazon, some at Half Price Books...). Also, the publishers aren't charging $200 for the paper - they will try to steal that much from students using electronic formats as well. - MarkusX, on 03/27/2009, -1/+12In Germany, especially in Junior High and High School, we have always studied with used, even old books, sometimes 10 years old.
...and I haven't heard that the American education is much if at all better than the education in Germany.
New developments can always be discussed in the classroom or researched on the Internet as an additional source of information. But don't need to have a new textbook every year, that only shows marginal differences. This is special to America, to force people to spend a ***** load of money for their education every year, but not learning that much more.
Just figure, how many studies are coming out every year showing some revolutionary result and a year later (or sooner) a different study is released proving the exact opposite. You aren't any wiser after knowing both. You only know that you can't trust any brand new study. - inactive, on 03/27/2009, -0/+11I had to pay $150 for the online version of my Physics 111 textbook. What a frickin' ripoff! And it was the same bland writing, just on a ***** 1998-esque webpage. >:(
- inactive, on 03/27/2009, -3/+13Unless your e-book is fully charged, which should last a week.
- Nickolassc, on 03/27/2009, -0/+10Personally, for a reference I hate ebooks. Real books are convenient. They are quick to skim and easy to search since you can flip through them quickly looking for what you might need. Not to mention I can take a book with me and open it up and read it without the hassle of electronics. Now, the problem they need to fix with textbooks is that apparently any ***** who's first name is Dr. can publish one. I have countless physics and engineering textbooks that are complete *****, I can't believe what passes for educational material.
- pingveno, on 03/27/2009, -1/+10There's a wee bit of a problem here. Textbooks are much easier to read, not get distracted on, mark on, etc. Don't get me wrong, Wikipedia, Project Gutenberg, and web searches have their place. Wikipedia is the single best computer science reference, I learned most of my computer programming knowledge from web sources, and I constantly use online databases for research.
The thing is, textbooks have many advantages that are essentially for me. Unless an e-book/e-book reader has these features I wouldn't even consider a 100% switch.
Readable without worrying about battery life unless the battery lasts longer than, say, a month.
Can be abused without worrying about components breaking.
Can be read outside (LCD screens aren't bright enough).
Can store handwritten notes that don't require a special pen.
Doesn't cost a large amount of money. I can afford it, but other people would be tempted to mug me.
Has full color capabilities.
Doesn't have other features that could easily distract me.
Large enough to be easily readable.
Give me all of those and I'll switch to e-books. - tyne101101, on 03/26/2009, -9/+18Kudos to your article.
- buddyw, on 03/27/2009, -1/+10That's right. The problem is higher up than what books are printed on. The problem is that most state school systems are monopolies. There is no real competition unless you are rich enough to be able to afford private school. If we could create a market for schools there would be fierce competition and problems like this would resolve themselves.
- IKORKYI, on 03/27/2009, -0/+9it annoyed the hell out of myself and my professors when book publishers would no longer publish, say, version 3 of a calculus book, and will release 4 with such minor changes in content that it is the same material. Only they will shift chapters, problem numbers, and even values in samples just so you have to buy the next edition at $200 each without having to deal with denoting lesson and homework references in multiple version numbers - if it's even possible.
It kills the resale market so the books have little value for trade-in on campus, and the cost falls squarely upon the only person in the exchange that is paying tens of thousands of dollars a year towards getting themselves an education. What the hell, the typical kid who pays their own way through college is going to be at least $40k in debt anyway - its just peanuts, right?
The same phenomenon makes for astronomical expenses for k-12 institutions as explained in the article. At least they can be recycled for a few years and maybe shipped off to a district that couldn't afford the books used.
To put the expense onto the student (or parents) of an electronic device they carry with them through school would save money - but putting an electronic device in the hands of a 5-18 year old is going to turn it into a pile of junk in less than a year. Tough-book like designs would help but i don't think we'll see the hardware technology at an affordable price until the software sales are on fire. - kingmanic, on 03/27/2009, -1/+9You read faster in real print than on a monitor and you are less likely to skim and retain more. Paper still has it's place.
- atchon, on 03/27/2009, -0/+8My personal favorite is when they renumber problems, or change values in the problem so you effectively can't use an older version.
- NaziHatinChimp, on 03/27/2009, -1/+9Why do we need to pay for every kid to have a color, $60 text book in the first grade? Why not pay some teachers to write a first grade math book, pay them a fee, and then allow all teachers in a state to access it and print out copies as necessary.
First grade math isn't changing and the books are extremely expensive. They could even license the book to other states and make more than they spent! - Bulletbillx, on 03/27/2009, -1/+8but E-books allow me to ctrl-f search for text. i'd honestly like it if like movies are doing now they had textbooks include a "digital copy" for free for the best of both worlds.
- merreborn, on 03/27/2009, -0/+7Schools and instructors get kickbacks for pushing new editions, and "custom" textbooks.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/26/eveningn ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121565135185141235 ...
That's why we pay though the nose for textbooks over here -- because the people who pick the books get a cut. - tgray, on 03/27/2009, -0/+7I used physics textbooks from college through gradschool and into my post doc. There are some good textbooks out there that deserve to be in print. And they don't change that often. A widely used book for E&M is in the same edition (3rd) now as it was when I took the course 10 years ago.
- PorcusWallabee, on 03/27/2009, -1/+8Wikipedia isn't controlled by a monopoly, it's control by the people. With the right teacher it can be just as good as a textbook.
- AndrewDB, on 03/27/2009, -2/+8You might want to come out of your cave some time.
I promise.. that big ball of fire in the sky called the Sun won't hurt you all that much unless you stay out in it for too long or look at directly. - darkism, on 03/27/2009, -1/+7Who the ***** wants to be forced to sit in front of a computer while studying? What a distraction.
- dalittle, on 03/27/2009, -0/+6Actually, I think the textbook publishers are more of the problem, not the books themselves (I think it is easier to read a real book personally). If they focused more on paying teachers a good salary and that they did a good job and less on replacing perfectly good math books every two years who's content has not changed in hundreds of years we would have better schools. Get school textbook lobbyists out of government.
- boonesfarm, on 03/27/2009, -5/+11Unless your textbook was printed at Chernobyl, you wouldn't be able to read that either.
- Metasquares, on 03/27/2009, -0/+6AND NO DRM!
- maddprof, on 03/27/2009, -2/+8Sounds like what happens when you combine Bacardi 151 and Fire.
(It's Fahrenheit 451) - kalvinb, on 03/27/2009, -0/+6You can resell a textbook.
Part of the "racket" is getting some if not all of your money back at the end of the semester. - Maddoktor2, on 03/27/2009, -0/+6I have a 99 year old complete with yearbook encyclopedia in very good condition that can be handled and read without protection. No special storage accommodations are used either, it's right there on the bookshelf for everyone to enjoy.
I doubt that would be the same case with a 99 year old CD/DVD (provided, of course, that you have something to play it on and a means to power the playback device to begin with). - abizzy, on 03/27/2009, -4/+9Open Source education would be awesome...
- DrunkenSavior, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5Having the option for a digital copy (less of course) and a physical copy would be nice. I have a pdf of my calculus book and the physical book. It's nice to have one open to the answers and one to the problems.
- Bartley, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5I agree with your comments about the more technical-related fields. I also was an engineering major (computer engineering) before my PhD, and I still have a lot of my textbooks. As a new college professor, I do try to think about the out-of-pocket costs to my students when selecting textbooks. Publishers make their textbooks available to faculty for free; it's in their best interest. However, before adopting a textbook for any of my classes (I teach Computer Science), I always do some research at local B&M stores as well as popular online sites. I try to find a lower cost than what our bookstore would sell the book to the students (we make next to no profit off of textbook sales, by the way), and then I make sure to mention that to my students at the beginning of the semester. If I like a textbook that is a little more costly, I do my best to ensure that it is used for multiple courses. For example, the database text I like costs slightly over $100 at most online sites. However, I use this same textbook (same edition) for three courses. I feel that, if more professors and teachers would take the time to research their texts and the associated costs, many of these problems would be alleviated.
Will eBooks and electronic media eventually dominate? I don't know for sure, and I don't think anyone can accurately predict it. While we may try to predict future technologies, we are really bad at predicting how society will evolve. Think about all of those 40's and 50's ads/commercials showing the "kitchen of the future." By the time we had the technology, society had changed so dramatically that we didn't have the same kind of people.
The guy who wrote this article (Mike Elgan) has a history of publishing articles with sensational titles with little to no associated research (at least when it comes to areas outside of hard-core technology). I think perhaps he should leave education to the professors and teachers, and maybe he should stick to predicting the downfall of XM radio. - HimThatSpeaks, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5You are a fanatic all right! Forcing your opinions on others. I prefer to browse in hypermedia environments but if I have 30-40 hours of reading to do, like in a good book series, I will take paper. The eyes handle it better. Don't force your opinions on others. Ebooks are an alternative, not the future, maybe in the future, but not anytime soon.
- rolf, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5Wikibooks:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Main_Page
It needs your help. - Midtowner, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5I don't think an ebook will ever be adequately able to replace my ability to use 8 colors of highlighting (all of which I use to indicate different types of text), margin notes and post its/labeled tabs -- at least not the ease of use I have in utilizing those things. I generally agree that the price of texts needs to be a bit more reasonable. All it would take for that would be for professors to start price comparing their texts.... but they don't really care.
- haikuFU, on 03/27/2009, -1/+6There are open source textbook projects out there. Require all changes to be approved by a committee of subject matter experts so some douchebag creationist nutjob doesn't come in and fill it with nonsense.
- MarkusX, on 03/27/2009, -0/+5Other people brought up other arguments already.
I didn't want to repeat them, but bringing _another_ aspect.
Btq, I wasn't necessarily just speaking of classroom textbook, but books in general.
People tend to make EVERYTHING digital nowerdays and forget the value of analog media (i.e. paper only needs to be looked at to be able to read or at least see the data). - bmcnally, on 03/27/2009, -0/+4People underestimate the value of flip, skim, and open to a place that is relatively close to what you want to get to (e.g., you open to the 100th page, look at the info, and know which direction to go in to get the info you want).
- Metasquares, on 03/27/2009, -0/+4Or let's not and say we did. I'd prefer not to live in Ray Bradbury's world. And I'd CERTAINLY like not to live in one where someone else dictates how I can read and share my books.
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