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52 Comments
- immatellyouwhat, on 11/14/2009, -0/+17I'm just asking questions...
WHAT'S HAPPENED TO MY SCHOOOOOOO???!!!! - Junkyarddawg, on 11/14/2009, -3/+19California: what you get when the majority is too weak to rule, and the minority big enough to obstruct.
- PhotoJustin, on 11/14/2009, -6/+16Prop 13 - why not help elderly homeowners and corporate property-owners at the expense of young people and families?
- funkedup, on 11/14/2009, -17/+26collectivism fails when you run out of other peoples money...
- sangjmoon, on 11/14/2009, -14/+21Another unsustainable California left wing program? Why am I not shocked?
- josegaldamez, on 11/14/2009, -1/+8On the flip side
Laissez-faire = Epic fail for the poor and middle class
You are CURRENTLY seeing this in the headlines against corrupt health insurance providers RIGHT NOW. - josegaldamez, on 11/14/2009, -3/+9Let's get rid of private high schools, colleges and all sorts of scholarships and grants then. Heck, the kids are not paying for it out of their own pockets, so they don't really "value" it as much as the masochists who are just dying to walk out of a 4-year degree 50K+ in debt.
- ChaotikBlu, on 11/14/2009, -1/+7I know, right? Damn the government's involvement in maintaining highways and streets.
- MokaPot, on 11/14/2009, -7/+13We only have public universities/colleges over here. Same is in the rest of europe I guess, with few exceptions.
You should never pay for education imho. - strangewill, on 11/14/2009, -3/+7Yeah, because you _NEVER_ see companies bidding for contracts for government projects, absolutely never...
Oh did I say never? I meant almost always (minus some hand picked "no bid contract" *****).
The government has just as much control as individual consumers, it is up to you to make sure they do it, your ***** attitude just reinforces it. - govsucks, on 11/14/2009, -3/+7Really, I make a point about California spending money on a Grateful Dead archivist in the middle of a thread about California's "visionary" education plan and you pick out the missing apostrophe?
Bravo. Nit pick much? Its 8:30 in the morning here. I'm sure you've NEVER had a typo before huh?
I would respect your comments more if they were RELATED to the ***** subject. - govsucks, on 11/14/2009, -6/+10And thats why we need to take this nationwide. Because much like the Massachusetts public healthcare plan, it may fail on the state level, but it will be a brilliant success if we just force the whole nation to participate in it.
/s - samsmartjr, on 11/14/2009, -0/+3What's interesting here is that they only talk about California paying for students to go to either University of California, California State University, or a community college. What about technical and vocational schools? We need graduates from those schools just as much as we need graduates from others.
- KingGorilla, on 11/14/2009, -0/+3So we shouldn't educate the stupid?
- PhotoJustin, on 11/20/2009, -0/+2So...everyone who attends a UC or CSU is stupid, especially those whose parents can't afford to send them to a private, $50k/year school?
Just checking... - randall814, on 11/14/2009, -0/+2Actually, I just looked at my friend's (from Hungary, not a UK citizen) who is studying at Cambridge Regional College, and it clearly says in his information packet that 18-19 = free, above that is 4,000 pounds.
I don't profess to know how things work here 100%, but I will say that if he went to America instead, he would probably give up after he saw the price tag. - k1n6, on 11/14/2009, -5/+7I get so tired of hearing about some public California organization trying to be paid for their services, and a bunch of whiney baby california residents bitching about having to pay for stuff that should be "free". You'd think given the current situation in CA that more residents there would realize that someone has to pay for everything.
- randall814, on 11/14/2009, -4/+6I honestly don't mind forking over extra money in taxes to pay for things like universal healthcare and universal higher education. I think that every citizen should be provided with these things for the greater good of society as a whole. In my experience, paying a bit now, no matter how much (let's be reasonable and compare to other countries as an example), is much better than dropping $X0,000 on a single year at a good university. I joined the Air Force for a change of pace and a good way to finish my schooling without ruining everything in my financial life. I still owe $8,000 from ONE year in university, and that was 2007. I'm stationed in England, and they go to school for free here if you start at 18-19 years old. 20+, it's 4,000 quid no matter where you wish to go. Quite a bit of money, to be sure, but it is definitely not too bad at all. If you have the intelligence to get into Cambridge University or one of the other 10+ excellent universities, you still pay the flat rate (or nothing at all). Say the same thing for a quality school in America, and you either have to be Native American, filthy rich, or have your parents set up a second mortgage. I went to Central Michigan University at $17,000 per year, and that is just insane. I couldn't imagine what it would cost if I tried a little harder and earned grades that would get me into an Ivy league school for example.
Let's look at this sensibly. The more healthy and well educated people out there, the better off society and the economy will be as a whole. More qualified people earning more money and thus spending more money.
I don't know if full blown socialism is the answer, but they definitely have things going smoothly. Most of the people I've met from all over Europe are well educated and don't worry about school and healthcare. - JDLade, on 11/14/2009, -2/+4if only there was some way for california to raise billions of dollars easily and pay for this program...
- govsucks, on 11/14/2009, -3/+5Yes, because you couldn't understand right?
Thanks for debating the point. - inactive, on 11/14/2009, -2/+4The problem is they keep lowering the bar on what's considered "qualified".
- antdude, on 11/15/2009, -0/+1OK Eric Cartman. :)
- ohreilly, on 11/14/2009, -1/+2"I'm stationed in England, and they go to school for free here if you start at 18-19 years old. 20+, it's 4,000 quid no matter where you wish to go."
Higher Education (universities etc) is a flat rate of £3,225 per year for people starting this year and are British citizens. Your age doesn't come into it. You do however (if your parents are on a low income) get tons of grants and bursaries thrown at you which almost cancel out the tuition fee, but you need that to live on (as well as possibly get a job).
There are differences if you've lived in Scotland for an X number of years and want to go to a Scottish university - then it is truly free. Gotta love the Union. - FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, on 11/15/2009, -0/+1...and doesn't seem to think an annual compensation of $800k~ish a year IS an absurd amount.*
- govsucks, on 11/14/2009, -10/+11Because when you don't pay for something, you really value it. /s
- PhotoJustin, on 11/18/2009, -0/+1No, the problem is that the tax burden is arbitrary. Prop 13, if you don't know, froze property taxes for all properties (commercial and residential) as of 1978, with a maximum increase in assessed value set at 5% (or thereabouts). So if you have owned your home since 1978, or, more importantly, a corporate business, since that date in 1978, you hardly pay any taxes COMPARED to an identical property purchased in 1979 or later.
Fast forward: wealthy elderly sit on top of property worth millions or more, but paying property taxes to the county and state at 1/10th the rate that everyone else pays. Worse still, a corporation, which will never die, can sit on a property forever and hardly pay any property taxes. Young families and startup businesses purchasing property, however, don't get that deal - it's only for property you owned in 1978.
So wealthy elderly retirees (sitting on homes that have appreciated 1000%) and corporations pay less, meaning younger homeowners and newer businesses have to make up the difference....by paying higher taxes.
I was born in 1978, I couldn't have bought property at that time, so I pay higher taxes to take up the slack for those that did slip in before the deadline.
How is that fair? How is it that the home I purchased carries much higher property taxes than an identical home next door that was purchased 30 years ago? How can a new upstart business compete with an old business that doesn't pay the same amount in property taxes for an identical building?
Totally unfair, and it needs to be repealed. - JaxxBat, on 11/14/2009, -2/+3Ditto ...
- thepolyglot, on 11/23/2009, -0/+1This is very unfortunate. How is our state supposed to be a global leader as one of the largest economies in the world, with an uneducated citizenry?
- PhotoJustin, on 11/20/2009, -0/+1Free public higher education is hardly a California idea. I believe Univ. of Virginia was originally founded for that purpose well before California was anything more than a chunk of Mexico's territory.
And a large investment in public higher education in the 50's and 60's is what made California into the economic powerhouse it is today. It's the 8th largest economy in the world, and without the $42 billion excess in federal taxes paid versus federal spending received, the rest of the US would be in an even deeper hole.
The only thing that would be unsustainable is not providing comprehensive and free education to all qualified kids and young adults - that is how you erode a successful state. - andyroo316, on 11/14/2009, -1/+2You don't get grants and bursaries thrown at you unless you are poor/are disabled/etc.
Most people just get a loan that they need to pay back. - andyroo316, on 11/14/2009, -1/+2@ohreilly: Apologies, I didn't read your comment properly and didn't realise I was just restating what you said.
- Craigistired, on 11/15/2009, -0/+1They can't even provide decent high schools, how do they expect to do it with college?
- PhotoJustin, on 11/20/2009, -1/+2Do you "value" the street out in front of your house, govsucks?
Do you "value" your military?
People like you are so ignorant: you like everything the government does for you, you enjoy a highly educated society with a huge pool of productive workers and the associated standard of living that comes along with it for everyone, but oh, heaven forbid we have to invest in education with your precious tax dollars. Heaven forbid someone ELSE gets an opportunity. You can apply to a public university as well, so it's not like you're being excluded.
You want to know who probably pays the vast majority of taxes? It's the "stupid people" that went to public universities and then used that education to be productive. - PhotoJustin, on 11/20/2009, -0/+1In CA, just like everywhere else, there are good schools, and there are bad schools. Especially when you consider that in CA, just like everywhere else, there are safe and affluent areas, and there are unsafe, extremely poor areas.
"how do they expect to do it with college?"
We already have the finest public institution in the entire US. Plus our UC system ranks something like 5 or 6 campuses in the top 30. Our 2nd tier system, the CSU system, is at the caliber of most states' top-tier system. How do we expect to do it? We already do. - PhotoJustin, on 11/20/2009, -0/+1And the damn military - they couldn't even win a single World War!
- socrates114, on 11/15/2009, -0/+1That darn goverment ensuring drug and food companies that have only our best wishes at heart from ***** us over
- thecoolestguy, on 11/16/2009, -0/+1It's so easy to take other people's money.
"Give me your money! If you don't, you go to jail!" - socrates114, on 11/14/2009, -1/+1people be talking about how its all new and *****
- FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU, on 11/15/2009, -1/+1You know, I don't mind paying to go to school. Even if it means fee increases, it's worth it in the long run. Not to mention that even if most of my tuition is covered in financial aid, I have been paying them (and will continue to) through taxes in the past, present, and future. No one is saying that the professors ought to teach for "free".
And everyone is missing the point of the article. They're talking about miscommunication and inefficiency within the current system. If you took the time to read, students have been paying the fee increases and not even being able to get the courses they need! Tell me that isn't outrageous.
The article also doesn't mention the President of the UC, who spends 12k a month on rent (despite being provided a multi-million dollar mansion to live in) and doesn't seem to think an annual compensation of $800k~ish a year is not an absurd amount.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/magazine/27fob-q ... - JaxxBat, on 11/14/2009, -5/+5Ditto...
- monodelasno, on 11/14/2009, -11/+11You mean giving ***** away for free has consequences? Just like housing loans for hose who can't afford them, promising education to the stupid is also misguided.
- mnocket, on 11/14/2009, -5/+5Yep. There will always be people who think California's problem is that their taxes are too low.
- govsucks, on 11/14/2009, -6/+6Really, you people are wondering why Californias school plan is so expensive.
Gee, I'm sure they only spend money on things that are ABSOLUTELY needed.
http://digg.com/music/Stoners_Need_Apply_Hiring_Fu ... - biogears, on 11/14/2009, -5/+4Reality confuses the left, once again.
- scoottie, on 11/15/2009, -2/+1Illegal immigration
- seltaeb4, on 11/14/2009, -9/+8Everything would be fine if the rage of the populists had been ignored, and Prop. 13 hadn't passed in 1978.
- danielttt, on 11/14/2009, -4/+2smashTasker, you're a leftist aren't you? ... People will respect your comments if they're well thought out. Your unrelated and insignificant observations are totally meaningless and vapid. At least your grammar's seemingly okay...
- dhartin, on 11/14/2009, -4/+1what in this article has anything to do with bidding for contracts? it's up to me to make sure they do it? exactly how do I control the government, voting? ha, choices between puppet A and puppet B.
- smashTasker, on 11/14/2009, -5/+1People will respect your comments more if you use proper grammar and punctuation.
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