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115 Comments
- commasplices, on 11/06/2009, -3/+76We're less educated than many Europeans.
- WordsnCollision, on 11/06/2009, -6/+75Maybe, but we lead the world in school shootings. USA! USA! USA!
- Surferess, on 11/06/2009, -4/+52Fairly obvious problem here:
US $$ = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Spent on Defense > $ Spent on Education
Perhaps, we could move a few of those defense dollars over to the education column to stop the bleeding. - Bukowsky, on 11/06/2009, -2/+30don't forget about McDonald's locations!
- theghoul, on 11/08/2009, -0/+27That's unpossible.
- burden555, on 11/08/2009, -3/+24Back in the 1980's Bulgaria had one of the top school systems around. This was partly due to the socialist state of the country. It wasn't communist like Russia (rather far from that) but wasn't really capitalist either. It was just Socialist, and things were good. Education there is with out a doubt much better then what we have here.
Even now, when Bulgaria is declining, education is still above that in America. In middle school, learning a second language is mandatory. English is practically a requirement. What college students are being taught here, now, is being taught at a high school level in Bulgaria.
USA really needs to step up its education. - JDLamb88, on 11/08/2009, -3/+22Are you trying to prove the article's point?
- XPpro, on 11/07/2009, -0/+17Part of the problem is exaggerated degree credit requirements whose only purpose is to make money for the schools and teachers. Look up the time you need to be in school to be a lawyer, dentist, doctor in Bulgaria vs. the US. While you're at it, compare the cost of higher education in Bulgaria vs. the US.
- erkokite, on 11/08/2009, -0/+15***** bulgies and their fancy edumacations.
- smashTasker, on 11/08/2009, -2/+17Yes, most Americans are very stupid.
- badqat, on 11/06/2009, -2/+17I'll give you that there is not only a ton of waste in defense spending, and too much per capita.
However, there is also a ton of waste in educational spending as well. The administrator/teacher/pupil ratio is extremely unbalanced.
So could we at least eliminate the waste in education first, reallocate those dollars to actual, oh, I don't know, education, perhaps. If it's still underfunded, then by all means, fund it appropriately.
I just don't know that throwing more cash to education straight up is the answer. - kaosethema, on 11/08/2009, -2/+17we're less educated than some third world countries...
- lolmax, on 11/08/2009, -0/+13and fat people, and number of incarcerated citizens! woot!
- benhuebner, on 11/07/2009, -2/+13I´m a German, and I think it seems to be so, but I´m not sure at all!
It´s a long time ago when I was in the USA the last time, but in the past years I noticed a huge decrease in "our" education. Maybe it depends on me, but many of the people I know agree with me in this point.
A great factor I think is not only the shool quality, but the quality of entertainment (TV)! Think about the last generation of movies and compare them with two or three generations before, of course there are less quality special effects, but the story quality is much higher in general. - NoUltimatum, on 11/08/2009, -0/+9I moved to Texas from Bulgaria 3.5 years ago. I remember that in the 10th grade, they had us doing advanced trig. Truly horrible stuff, we would write about 6 pages worth of notebook paper every hour (60 min.) and they had us with 7h of math per week.
It's like we said back then - we are not world famous, so we need to know everything about the world in order to stand out. - ryanonfire, on 11/08/2009, -0/+8I dun need wordz
- joculator, on 11/08/2009, -1/+9Come on Goolsbee, "in 25 years we'll have the economic level of Bulgaria"...there are more things to standard of living or per capita income than formal education.
- Genecalypse, on 11/08/2009, -1/+9Get a brain morans!
- loopyloopy, on 11/08/2009, -0/+8ignorance is strength
- darkfate, on 11/08/2009, -0/+7Tack on two more zeroes and you get the tuition costs of most private schools in the US.
- Paranor01, on 11/08/2009, -1/+8you're blaming hippies for lack of education cause you think they're all lazy ?
McCarthy much ? - Jovian84, on 11/08/2009, -2/+9while we argue about idiotic things like creationism, we will loose this century
- crazzy88ss, on 11/08/2009, -0/+6Not really sure how this is a bipartisan debate...
- Paranor01, on 11/08/2009, -0/+6oooo so you're saying people, who don't blindly chant "america #1 america #1" but actually states reality are liberals, and they hate america ?
when did fact & honest truth become a negative thing? or is that just the !right/GOP ? - bdfariello, on 11/08/2009, -0/+6And some republicans think Obama is Hitler. There are a lot of stupid people in this world.
- lochness, on 11/08/2009, -1/+7Yes you are...
- crackercho, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5As a Bulgarian, I can assure you that the tuition cost of the best university in Bulgaria, for 1 year is about $350 after the increase (depending on your major).
- anenokoji, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5No he doesn't. To go to the University of Stuttgart in Germany, in Informatiks is only 105 euros per semester. That's it.
School is DIRT cheap in most of Europe. Even in the UK, I have a friend as a PhD student, and his cost is only 4000$ per year. That is cheaper than my brothers undergrad at a public school's cost per quarter.
*also*
In Germany it's only 5 years for a masters instead of the usual 7 in the US. In the UK or Sweden, a bachelors is acheived in 3 years, not 4. So, not only is it cheaper, it's faster. - BasalCellBossk, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5*lose
- Super6, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5If you were to actually look at the statistics money has hardly any effect at all on how students perform (at least as measured by standardized tests). In my Scope and Methods class this week we looked at data for Ohio's public school and only about 2% of the increase in scores could be attributed to an increase in spending which is negligible and would result in a rejected hypothesis.
On the other hand, if you analyze performance against the percentage of students on free lunch (and therefore poor, and therefore most likely in a single mother household, and therefore least likely to be learning outside of school) nearly 70% of the change could be attributed.
The moral of the story is that the problem isn't our schools, it isn't the spending, and it isn't the curriculum: it's what's being sent to the schools.
You can't teach someone that doesn't want to learn. - Paranor01, on 11/08/2009, -1/+6buried for being a dumbass with or without video
- Zidul, on 11/08/2009, -0/+5Only 24 locations in Bulgaria :(
- Ductapemaster, on 11/08/2009, -2/+7My graduate student math TA spelled "predator prey model" like "preditor prey modle" the other day in section. I thought you had to pass some sort of english exam to get into graduate school?
- Paranor01, on 11/08/2009, -1/+5And the video was about University students, not young kids.
Way to watch the post and know what you're talking about. - jumbalia, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4Percentage of population with a college education says nothing about quality of education.
- Isenborg, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4Boy oh boy. Americans sure do love to hate themselves. Yuck it up. Your snarky, negative, self-loathing attitudes, which are sooo popular nowadays, couldn't possible be part of the problem. Right?
- Isenborg, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4Brilliant post! You must be reeeaaallllyy educated, possibly over 12 years old even. Thanks for taking time away from your studies to weight in on this subject. Hope you don't mind if I use your masterful quote in a paper I'm writing.
- cyberdork, on 11/07/2009, -1/+5Big thanks to the 68er Generation, which believes school should be fun and if the material is too hard then it should be dumbed down so our poor overwhelmed children can have a great time in school...
When I got my highschool diploma (Abitur) in 1993 my two 'specialized courses' (Leistungskurse) were Mathematics and Physics.
One year later I heard that for the first time ever my school didn't offer the Physics course anymore, because not enough students signed up for it. But instead they had to form two philosophy courses... - AiR1890, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4It might have something to do with the soaring costs of our tuition. I am sure other countries pay a lot, lot, lot, lot less for tuition, here in America, 2500 dollars for one semester is considered a minimal tuition.
- Atario, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4It takes cash to hire more teachers and build more classrooms.
- StreetPreacher, on 11/08/2009, -2/+6"Many?" How about "Most?"
(See comment above for another fine example of the American educational system.) - Jovian84, on 11/08/2009, -0/+4the problem is american culture, its turned sour. far from the progressive democracy that came charging into the 20th century, the country now is filled with people who value belief over knowledge, and military power over economic prowess (which could be bolstered by letting in more immigrants just like we did the first time). the truth is they're nothing but a bunch of selfish, self-righteous, fat idiots who think its their god given right to be that way regardless of the consequences. the system deserves to fail and it will, because nobody cares anymore.
- Dream0Weaver, on 11/08/2009, -1/+5Oh yeah... throwing money at the problem... mh.
- Zidul, on 11/08/2009, -1/+4A lot of money would mysteriously disappear.
- Surferess, on 11/06/2009, -1/+4Here in California they are certainly not throwing cash at the issue:
Here is how it looks
"Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger spoke about the courage needed by the Legislature to make the difficult decisions necessary to close California's massive budget shortfall, pegged at $24.3 billion right now.
The Governor has proposed $1.3 billion in cuts to this current school year and another $4 billion in cuts for the next school year. If these cuts are approved in their entirety, they would add to the nearly $12 billion in cuts schools were already forced to sustain with the budget agreement that came about in February."
Source: http://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr09/yr09rel86.asp - mrjovanovic, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3As a European that had a fair share of both systems of education, I'd fully agree. I did my undergrad in the States, went back to Europe for an MA, and then back to the States for PhD (for good reason!).
I think one of the main issues in the United States is the lack of unconditional funding which universities receive. I know my uni (U of Illinois) is in serious problems with us graduate students (there is talk of a strike), because they aren't willing to pay teaching assistants the minimum wage. Currently, you can make more flipping burgers at McDonalds (which is an honorable job, just not as intellectually strenuous or important for the country as a whole) than you can teaching an undergraduate class. On average, we teach three to four sections of 25 students each per week. The average TA salary is around $14K per year - barely enough for rent, food, and a measly health insurance. No investment, no planning for the future, no luxury purchases like cable TV or travel. Getting an education, particularly when its difficult, is just not very financially appealing...
Lab assistants and professors that have the opportunity hobnob with different corporations, of course, make a lot more money. That's fine, but it puts the university in a position where it has to respond very quickly to market forces, and doesn't have the option to redistribute donations - which would help maintain the balance. The problem is scientific research does not respond well to the demands for intellectual production - it usually takes time to be done right. When you have to do it fast to get funding, you don't really have the freedom to innovate, and you just wind up rehashing what other people are doing so you can get money.Voil'a, you have declining quality of education, and declining funding....
Now back to the books (we read a lot :))...
P.S. I fully expect a "Cool story, bro" comment after this.... :) - Barackalypse, on 11/08/2009, -1/+4A lot of money did mysteriously disappear, the Fed can't account for the TARP funds.
- bde5, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3Did he say "Vulgaria" in the beginning? If you don't even know what the country is called why would you base you opinion on it?
I'm a Bulgarian and I always find it ignorant when somebody says something like that.
The country is a key NATO member (part of the coalition forces in Iraq, stationed soldiers in Afghanistan) and is one of the few european countries where people are quite pro american. The only ex communist country to open itself so much for American culture and investors. I think we deserve a bit more respect.
It is very offensive. He could express himself better than that.. not so direct.. like.. "We are as bad as those ***** countries.."
Bulgaria has been having really bad economic times since the fall of communism but not because the education (like he pointed out) but because of the change of the political and social systems. Teachers are so poorly paid you could say they do it out of personal motivation.
For the last 30 years almost everybody in Bulgaria who had the intelligence capacity and a good level of motivation fled out of the country to get a better life. I'm one of them. The US was never against our good educated and hard working citizens coming over. In fact we have lost 60% of all our specialists to the US. The country has been getting one of the worst cases of "Brain Drain". - Super6, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3In the US, if you want to learn you can get a superb education from public schools. When I graduate high school I'll have completed over 60 credit hours of college work at UCF through dual-enrollment.
The bottom line is that we don't have a policy problem, we have a people problem. The reason baby einstein made so much money is because everyone thinks there's an easy way out. I hate to break it to you but if you want your kid to get a good education you're gonna have to sit down and interact with him or her. - Lazydriver, on 11/08/2009, -0/+3Es war nicht die 68ers, es ist unser neuer Mentalität. Niemand wollen wissen nie mehr, und dass ist einfach gesagt als: Bürokratie und also scheiß Lehrer.
It was not the Hippies, it was our newer mentality. Nobody wants to know anything more, and that is simply said as: Bureaucracy, and also, ***** teachers.
People interested in making themselves better are considered social inept and a waste of space in a society of those who think 'bling is better'. Hippies were people who enjoyed this sort of thing. Hell, the computer age STARTED in the age of hippies.
It's the bureaucracy of teaching. Where students can not take the classes they want, but they classes they are given. People are taught only to push themselves when asked/forced, rather than always pushing themselves for the sake of bettering themselves. People who do not want to take a subject are forced to, and ruin learning it with their constant whining.
In years old, IE, 50 years ago, the requirements to graduate were far less. Whether or not our society has become smarter... Well. We sure as hell don't respect the smart anymore, but whether or not that ever /was/ is debatable. -
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