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90 Comments
- saucer, on 07/10/2009, -1/+68Another point to consider is:
If your contractor installs the sink before the drywall, like the picture indicates, you should probably keep looking. - jba68, on 07/10/2009, -8/+63I'm gonna bang your wife while your gone....
- Chamrox, on 07/10/2009, -3/+45#15 - If you're a female, you're going to pay much more and have the job take twice as long, just because I don't respect you.
#16 - I'm the most important person in your life. If i want to take a couple of days off to go fishing, I will. You need to make sure I'm happy because I'm the one that's doing YOU the favor by working.
#17 - I can get your job done for cheaper and on schedule, but I NEED my 3 hour morning coffee break at the lumber yard. If you don't like it, YOU do it.
#18 - I pay my subs cash, because they're in this country illegally. I'd appreciate it if you paid me in cash as well. - chadsmith729, on 07/10/2009, -1/+33Here's my recent dealings with a tree trimming contractor.
Monday - 7/5/2009 - wife gets quote to trim two trees for $1,400
Wed - 7/8/2009 - I get call from tree trimmer asking me if it's a go on the quote. I said "No, we are deciding if we really need the trees trimmed" of course he says they do and he would be happy to do them next week.
Thurs - 7/9/2009 - I get another call from tree trimmer saying that he would knock the price down to $900, I say "Thank you, but we are still deciding.". I then call him back and say "My wife and I were discussing it and if you can do it for $750 then it's a deal" he was hesitant then said "All right I can do it for $750."
So basically in a matter of 4 days we got almost half off. Moral of the story, contractors always high ball, it pays to negotiate a better price. Also, any contractor SHOULD provide you with a written quote and show you the breakdown of materials, labor, and other expenses. If they don't be suspect of them, we always require all contractors provide that information before we hand over any money. - Xproject01, on 07/10/2009, -5/+37# 14 - We don't know what the ***** we're doing
- donte, on 07/10/2009, -2/+32#14 We're going to gouge you on price for the things that you are capable of doing yourself but don't know it -- like changing an outlet. We love making an extra $25 for what was 3 minutes of work.
#15 We know you don't have any clue what building materials cost so we'll try to make a little extra scratch by inflating our costs in your bill. Be sure to ask us for a receipt from our trips to home depot.
I realize there are some good, honest contractors out there, but you have to sift through a lot of guys who watched one episode of This Old House and just decided to pick up a hammer one day to find them. - sodade, on 07/10/2009, -2/+21When I give a bid, the greatest swing factor is my impression of your net worth.
- brenbart, on 07/10/2009, -1/+16It's easier to cut down than to trim.
- Rogem002, on 07/10/2009, -2/+17#14 - Remember you live in your house. Don't make changes because it will make you property resale better, do them because it makes living in the house better.
- acaudel, on 07/10/2009, -1/+11Some contractors build new houses, some don't.
- TheUndertoker, on 07/10/2009, -0/+9376 diggs, 61 comments...and you're still a douchebag.
- DarkMatter911, on 07/10/2009, -1/+9Be prepared for the job to cost much more than anticipated.
Be prepared for the job to take longer than budgeted (even with a padded schedule).
Be prepared for more stress than expected.
Be prepared for this to become your full time job as you oversee the work we do, answer our questions, etc. - EvilJelloMan, on 07/10/2009, -1/+7@trutek
Cutting a tree down is dangerous, especially if it has to be dropped from the top down due to not enough clear space to let it fall.. I've done it, but don't see a need to do it every time. I do a lot of work myself, but I'm perfectly happy letting some other schmuck do the dangerous stuff for a couple bucks. - jba68, on 07/10/2009, -1/+7You are ***** fired, you can take your estimates and shove it
- vwvwvw, on 07/10/2009, -1/+7Did you mean $15-20k?
- theonlywizdum, on 07/10/2009, -1/+7Here's a big one: LISTEN TO US! We have seen 3 of the houses we built last year end up with major problems because the homeowner wanted to shop around. 2 of them went against our recommendation for a foundation / landscaping crew (a group that has worked with our company for more than 20 years, and does not hesitate to fix any problems that may arise.) Those 2 people now have cracking foundations because they tried to save $200. The third one hired some random mason that had never done multi-level buildings (again, against our recommendation.) He didn't have the proper equipment and ended up dropping a concrete block 24 feet straight down, through a brand new hard-wood floor.
We have other companies that we like to work with, those companies like to work on our jobs. We know how the other people work, and we can both do things to make the other's job go faster (and easier). It will eventually help your bottom line. Our crew doesn't advertise, everything is word of mouth, so we must be doing something right. - spazticmidget, on 07/10/2009, -1/+6I work as a carpenter and honestly thats were we make our money, not off some big job usually with extras and the owners bitching we break even. We get the money we need to pay the bills from changing that outlet that you "could" do yourself but are to lazy.
- rhoonah, on 07/10/2009, -0/+5I'm with EvilJelloMan. I'm a pretty competent DIYer and I don't do trees. All I need is to try explaining to the wife why I dropped a tree through the living room and onto the roof of her Jeep.
We got hammered in the north east with an ice storm this past winter and I had a ton of trees down... 3 across the driveway. I was out for several weekends in a row cutting and limbing trees and then burning them in the spring so I'm no wimp with a chainsaw. I'll also pay someone else to get up 50' on a ladder to take down a 2' diameter limb. - architerp, on 07/10/2009, -2/+7Only if it's a small fix... for bigger projects like additions or expansive alterations it can make sense to hire one - and may be required by law in some states.
- trutek, on 07/10/2009, -2/+7# 15 - You don't know what the ***** they're doing either.
You could read up on the type of project you are having done, get itemized quotes from multiply contractors, or get handles installed on your ankles and pay the Darwin tax. - Paranor01, on 07/10/2009, -1/+6My suggestion is to watch some Holmes on Homes http://www.makeitright.ca/
I'm not saying everything he says is "bible" but he has been preaching good information for years now. This article is a very small list compared to what Mike Holmes has spoken of.
And he's known world wide because of it. - nepidae, on 07/10/2009, -1/+6Yeah and I pay the bills by writing software that you "could" do yourself but are too lazy /shrug.
- kylere, on 07/10/2009, -1/+6Another tip: Trusting a contractor is like trusting a mechanic or your ex-wife's lawyer
- HCProgramr, on 07/10/2009, -1/+5Could you give us a breakdown of a 'typical' job, please? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm genuinely curious. I used to work in a cabinet factory and know the doors can get a little pricey, but $100k breaks my brain.
- BearKill, on 07/10/2009, -1/+5A little trick I learned in dealing with contractors is to get a quote for a job, say a simple remodeling of a bathroom, and then ask the contractor to break it down in terms of labor and materials. He will make a fuss and say he "doesn't think of it that way" etc., but I tell him this is the only way I can figure out if the price is reasonable. Then, having the labor component nailed down, I substitute natural stone (granite counters, marble floors, etc.) for the crap subway tiles and fake corian vanity tops he wants to use, but insist we keep the labor component roughly the same. I also keep the costs down by obtaining most or all the materials myself, going through discount stores or wholesale operations. This annoys the hell out of the contractor, but also results in far less padding of the bill that always seems to happen when fancy materials are used. I find that they effectively mark up both the labor and materials if they can get away with it. In fairness to the contractors, there are circumstances where it makes sense to add a bit to the labor cost for installation of certain materials that require special handling, etc. but you will still be miles ahead with this approach. Also, you have to be extra careful regarding materials because many contractors have a sneaky tendency to use really crappy materials for jobs even when the savings are marginal, just to eke out a bit more profit. That happened when we did a beautiful marble and granite bathroom and I made the mistake of having him pick the glass shower door, which had a tinny sounding metal frame that rattles every time you open or close it and annoys the heck out of us to this day. Probably would have been $50 extra to get a nice one.
- pathouston22, on 07/10/2009, -2/+6"#14 We're going to gouge you on price for the things that you are capable of doing yourself but don't know it -- like changing an outlet. We love making an extra $25 for what was 3 minutes of work."
Uhhh, that's most things in life. You can do something yourself for just the cost of the materials. Labor is not free. - RudeTurnip, on 07/10/2009, -2/+6I got a whole tree cut down for $800 with a three day turnaround after a storm by people who are here legally...and you paid $750 for a trim?
- chadsmith729, on 07/10/2009, -0/+4429 diggs, 74 comments ... and you continue to still be a douchebag.
- Kevin108, on 07/10/2009, -3/+71. Business is down, but not everywhere. I live around Norfolk, VA and the concentration of military here makes the area somewhat resistant to the effects of the recession. My prices are great and haven't changed.
2. Just because a job is small doesn't mean it's cheap or easy.
3. Get your money straight! You can pay me the right way or you can deal with my legal fees and having liens against you.
4. Everybody has a specialty. The best thing you can do is to use someone whose work you've seen or a friend or relative has used before.
5. Not many of my past customers are going to let a stranger in their home to see a bathroom remodel I did, but you might get to drive by and see a trim job from the street.
6. For some jobs, like electrical work or plumbing, a license is a good call. For a fence or replacement windows, finding someone with a license will result in a significantly higher price tag for a given project.
7. You can give me a smaller project first, but don't get mad when I've got another job lined up after your small job and can't just stick around for your surprise additional work.
8. Papers I waved in front of you? This is construction, not a magic trick!
9. There are different choices to make whether your fixing a place up to sell or if you plan on staying there. If you're there for the long haul, deciding not to do something you want because of the market correction that going on with home values would be silly.
10. Spelling everything out that you need done is important for both of us. I know up front the minutiae of what kind of work you need done and I won't have to waste time leaving to track down parts or materials once I'm already on the job. Having your ducks in a row will save you money.
11. Deadlines are fine as long as they are reasonable, but it's silly for me not to go do some prep work on the next job while I'm waiting for the concrete I poured for you to dry.
12. Quality materials are all I want to use. They make my job quicker and easier, though they may cost more. There's almost always options, but anybody with any sense will want to use the best material they can.
13. Sometimes small changes can be worked into an ongoing project, so don't be afraid to ask. If you're getting new tile behind the tub, the time to think about adding grab bars for when your elderly parents come visit is before the new tile goes up. - theonlywizdum, on 07/10/2009, -1/+5We build houses for $200k, where the ***** do you live?
- FlyingCaveman, on 07/11/2009, -0/+4I can tell by the way you mounted the sink and toilet before the sheet rock and flooring are in.
- frishackbanned, on 07/10/2009, -0/+4The problem is , the bad ones have ruined it for you all too few good ones.
- dexx4d, on 07/10/2009, -1/+4I've got to agree with this one. The episodes are free online. Find the ones that apply, spend a few evenings watching them.
- alf86, on 07/10/2009, -0/+3The architect is also your first (and best) line of defense in making sure the job is done correctly. He will also take care of most of the small issues that come up, only bothering you for major decisions that affect the final product/cost. Or you could just by a book of plans from Home Depot and hope that the contractor does the job right.
And for the record, a "building designer" is not the same as an architect. A building designer is just some guy who happens to draw houses, often with little or no real training. He may introduce himself as an architect (and they sure like to in my experience - that's illegal by the way), but he won't do the job of one. - alpha94, on 07/10/2009, -0/+3Have only had 1 good experience with a contractor and it was with a house painter. The people that built my fence took almost a year to complete it (long story) and another guy ripped me off on part of a bathroom reno (showed up late, did it in half the time and didn't use most of the materials he quoted but still wanted the money).
The big tip here is that if at all possible, do the work yourself! Otherwise, no amount of research and recommendations will mean that the contractor you hire isn't going to be a douche. - Kevin108, on 07/10/2009, -1/+4If I'm picking up the materials for your job, I'm getting paid for it one way or the other.
- popstation, on 07/10/2009, -1/+4we are starving so I will work for pennies and do an awesome job... my dad
- RaulMuadDib, on 07/10/2009, -0/+3Guys came by and offered to cut a tree for $600. I said there was already a guy coming over for $150, they cut it for $125. There was no other guy.
- chadsmith729, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2No, my experience shows that there is room for negotiations when dealing with contractors in a service oriented business.
- rabidgoose, on 07/10/2009, -3/+5I'm going to outsource most of the development overseas for pennies on the dollar.
Oh wait - wrong type of contractor? - HCProgramr, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2Guys, there's no use burying this guy into oblivion without at least asking 'why'.
For all we know, the company he works for typically installs black marble countertops [$75-$100/square foot wholesale], solid mahogany cabinets, and those goofy 'the only reason we know it's not a solid wall is because of the ice dispenser spoon hanging out of that hole in the "wall" I didn't notice the first time' things into a 200sqft kitchen with drop lighting, a central island with fume hood, and top of the line appliances.
From my time in a cabinet factory, I know the doors aren't cheap: a 3" by 5" desk drawerfront, Mahogany-laminated particle board with moulding around the outside edge wholesaled from the company I worked at for $200. $200 for something the size of a postcard and had particle board in the middle. I can only imagine what the 3/4" thick solid mahogany frame & panel doors with moulding between panel and frame went for...
Pointless vanity stuff adds up fast. - MissCellania, on 07/10/2009, -1/+3That doesn't help when the city code requires R30.
- jbmcb, on 07/10/2009, -0/+2It's not *always* better to do it yourself.
Ever run new electrical conduit through existing plaster walls in an 80-year old house? Do you know the national NEC by heart, along with the state, county and city specific codes? Have you pulled a building permit before? Do you know your local inspectors?
Any of the above will cause you incredible headaches, just to run a new outlet somewhere. The inspections can be a royal pain as well. Some inspectors inherently don't trust DIY jobs, and will find a reason to violate you (they can *always* find something wrong.) Some will automatically violate you just if you aren't in the union. Or you can forgo the inspection, and end up having to do it anyways when you sell your house. - Pyros7, on 07/11/2009, -0/+2Dugg for "get EVERYTHING in writing."
That means EVERYTHING. If you want it, it needs to be in the contract. If you don't know or don't care you're giving your contractor free reign to do or install whatever crap he wants as long as he comes in near (but always a little over) his estimate.
Don't let him go to Home Depot and pick up what ever generic brand is on clearance. Go and pick out your faucets/fixtures whatever yourself. Buy them. Tell him to install them.
Get milestones or finish dates in writing. If there's no penalty for him not meeting those dates then he probably won't care. - chadsmith729, on 07/10/2009, -1/+3@Rude - Wow, yeah that's a great price. The tree is about 4 stories tall and a lot of it is dead at the top. Cutting down the tree I heard is actually easier than trimming.
@bren - That's what I heard as well.
@trutek - It's 4 stories tall, my parents own a tree farm. I know how to use a chain saw rather well. One major problem is that the trees are wrapping themselves around power-lines and I also am not in the country, I am in the middle of the city.
Take care everyone and hope all have a wonderful weekend! - Pyros7, on 07/11/2009, -0/+1I had a friend who got a quote on windows, same thing happened to him.
A few days later the contractor had come down by like 50% on his "estimate." My friend said, yeah that's a lot closer to what I was looking to pay, but you can go ***** yourself because now I feel like you would have totally screwed me if I had said yes the first day and I don't trust you any more." - gdha, on 07/10/2009, -0/+1Interesting list here. I'll keep these in mind next time I need a remodel.
- BearKill, on 07/10/2009, -2/+3Unfortunately, the advice about getting everything in writing is very important--even with a contractor you should be able to trust who has done multiple projects with you over time. I was a tough negotiator on a half dozen projects with one competent contractor over a six month period. I was very pleased with the work and felt I got good bang for my buck, as everything was laid out in writing, both the labor and the material components. Unfortunately, when I hired him to do what I thought was a routine installation of some appliances that had an understood "going rate" for such work, I made a critical error and paid a steep price for not getting him to commit to a quote for the work in writing up front. The contractor charged me nearly $2200 to install the appliances, which didn't even include a water line for the icemaker on the new refrigerator. Should have been about $600-800. We both lost, as I refused to hire him for any more work (and awarded at $12000 deck job to somebody using his design) but I also had to spend a lot of time finding a number of other competent contractors in the area (which was difficult because our house is located in a small town in the Catskills). In hindsight it appears he capitalized on this opportunity to gouge me and make up for the low profit margin he had accepted on the prior projects. Bottom line is that in the future I will always get the details in writing for jobs both large and small.
- An800lbGorilla, on 07/15/2009, -0/+1OK, Hank Hill.
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