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70 Comments
- xsism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40I couldn't agree more. Even worse is when the client is not reasonable and not open-minded. They think they know exactly how it needs to be.
Why hire a designer if you know exactly the way it needs to be!!!??!
My High School English teacher use to tell us to always go for the first answer that came to mind on an exam, because either you know it or you don't; it's natural to over think a problem. Same can be applied to design. After long analysis and thought the originality of the project can quickly become drab and out of focus.
Good post. digg++ - andrewthrice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23I have that hanging in my office. So damned funny.
http://www.nerdmeyr.com/images/blog/03_10_2006_1.jpg - trib4lmaniac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Dugg simply for the comic posted in one of the comments. Hilarious!
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22"My High School English teacher use to tell us to always go for the first answer that came to mind on an exam, because either you know it or you don't; it's natural to over think a problem."
Your high school English teacher's advice would be a really good way to flunk a college-level calculus exam.
Sometimes, you need to stop and think. - WeeklyGeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Exactly the reason why I left my last job. The CEO was so into micromanaging (nano-managing, even) that it made me wonder why he hired me as a designer at all. He wouldn't listen to my suggestions or design choices and just instructed me to create what he dictated (without any previous design experience or education). It was horribly frustrating and awful.
- CasadeMike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16To see it from the other side (and I have worked on both sides). Many designers are more concerned with creating the next great portfolio piece than they are with helping clients solve their problems or in the end sell their products.
I have worked with many designers who never invested the time to learn the business (or audience) they were designing for.
I love the charts, but I find it a little humorous that the top says "portfolio worthy" and not "great design that achieved the client's business goals".
Many designers are not wired to think like that and they fail to realize that's the REAL reason they are being hired - it's not just about making things look pretty.
Although I do appreciate where he's coming from. My favorite line in meetings is I will debate functionality, but not aesthetics. Aesthetics are subjective and if you hired a "pro" to do the aesthetics, you should not second guess. - ChestRockwell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Dugg, because this is true. Everyone thinks they are a designer, everyone thinks they know how it should look and function. You hire a web designer so that they can make those decisions for you. You don't go into a doctors office and tell him how he can cure you, why do people feel the need to tell me, a professional web designer, how to design? If you don't like my work, why did you hire me in the first place?
- danakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11How to ruin web design: Myspace
- queezenorph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Dugg for best use of charts ever.
- puggy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Not only that. I've encountered those types who lecture you about color combinations, browser resolutions, and other simple things every designer already knows just because they read about it in Time magazine. They think they know what they're talking about and presume that you don't.
There was one time at my field where the owner of a tools company suggested the most laughable thing I've ever encountered---put a photo of a hairy chest as the repeating background in the company's website. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I'm going through exactly the same thing in-house with the organization I work for. The president of the org has had us (my boss and I) beating our heads against the wall for WEEKS now just to get the very basic page layout done...and now he's picking apart the header of just one page trying to get the "right" color combo and graphics. He's a great guy, personally, but needless to say he couldn't design his way out of a wet paper bag while armed with a brand new Xacto knife.
Anyway, this all adds up to total frustration on our parts, but also others in the org waiting for the new site to go live so they can move on some projects they're working on.
Clusterf**k doesn't even BEGIN to describe it.
I'd Digg this story twice if I could. - eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9My heart is bleeding as I watch my beautiful standards compliant masterpiece slowly torn apart at the hands of the recently hired table-based demons. I am putting both of those graphs on the wall.
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@xsism
Funny, I got that "Use the first answer that comes to mind" advice from teachers in a variety of disciplines. Physics, English, Math, Computer Science...
You'd almost think it expresses a fundamental truth about the way the human mind works, as if it's something basic to our thought processes, yet escapes the notice of most of us until it's pointed out.
And as the article illustrates, it continues to escape many people long after it's been pointed out.
Smart person that English Teacher of yours. He / She was right on the money.
Too bad they didn't teach the CTOs behind some of the God Awful designs I've been forced to implement. - Elfman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I agree as well even though I come at it from the developers side. I used to be web developer and build back-end and middle tier apps. When I would demo a site to a client, it was usually black text on a white page. Most people thought it was either broken or "wasn't working" just because the site didn't "pop" or "doesn't excite me". They never seemed to realize the amount of heavy lifting that SQL Server, CFML, Javascript and DHTML was actually doing to bring this app to life.
I was no designer. I left that up to the experts. But 9 out 10 clients were disappointed in someway because it didn't "engage" them or "pull them in".
They never realized that you gotta build the canvas, brushes, frame and easel before you can start painting.
Oh how I hated the comment "But my nephew built something just as good in Front Page". Hire your nephew then and we'll see how well that works for you. - lidflipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yep, work for a commercial photographer (post-production) and I will admit that I have worked over a photo (at the clients request) until it was practically destroyed. We have one client that HATES shadows so we have to remove them. His checks clear so I guess we have to do it, but it look stupid.
- altjeringa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5He forgot to include the designer who thinks he's a designer because he knows how to use photoshop, fireworks, and/or illustrator, but has paid little mind to color theory, typography, or the nuances of the media for which he/she is designing. Which of course accounts for about 80% of designers.
Truth be told most designs start out crappy to begin with, so you need to complete the graph as a half circle and end it with end users head imploding. - nwily, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6While I've seen a lot of good designs ruined by input from the wrong kind of people, I feel like a lot of these comments too quick to ignore outside opinions. I've seen a lot of designers who create works of art; completely unusable piece of art.
Also, this whole "After the first person design quality goes down" may be true in some cases, but I've been fortunate enough to work in teams of extremely competent people. I agree design by committee is a bad policy, but designing anything solo makes it almost impossible NOT to make mistakes.
Ranting "Stupid people shouldn't give input" is fine. Just make sure their input is actually stupid, and you aren't being too short sighted to realize they could help you be better at your job. - NiLeS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's hanging in mine as well.
So true... - iTorrey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think a lot of these people need to read the book "MTIV: Process, Inspiration and Practice for the New Media Designer" by HIllman Curtis
From the book
"INCLUSION: I start each project with the assumption that everyone involved is a creative. I really believe this. While some people's creativity may not be readily apparent, it's there and not to be disregarded." pg. 34
This whole page is really great and he goes on to explain more in the book about dealing with clients. If the client is giving you bad advice or ruining your design, it's usually because you aren't asking the right questions or haven't hit on the right theme for this client.
Yes, maybe the client is a micro-manager, and maybe they think they can design... but generally I've found, if you give them what they need and not just what they ask for, they will love it. The trick is, getting to what they need when what they asked for is not it. - slstsang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The cartoon was great, thanks for the post!
If you don't like my work, why did you hire me in the first place? - Xsecrets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Group intelligence is multiplicative when idiots are involved - combining a half-wit with another half-wit does not result in a full-witted person, it results in a quarter-witted person (1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4)."
This has got to be one of the best statements I've heard in recent years. I'll have to remember this one. - AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Okay, I get what the author is trying to say and agree. But, I take issue with some very basic points with his premise. While his graphs make a compelling argument it just does not happen that way.
If you look at the graphs the ultimate design is produced by a single designer, no way. While the graphs don't show the frequency of great designs per single designers my experience is it's a very low number and not practical or likely. Kind of like waiting for lighting to strike a specific designer it happens but not often.
Again, I get the authors rant and agree, mostly. It lacks credibility IMHO because it tries to present itself as objective and it's not.
From my experience the best designs come from a collaborative group with a small number of members: the user, the business and the designer that have the authority to implement the fruits of their labor. - prodigy311, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3agreed
- kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Your wish is my command...
Even though I agree with your thoughts. - rlewis1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Apparently the site this was posted on had a fair number of critiquers spending a considerable amount of time on it.
- Vagari, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have a Dilbert comic from a few years ago in my cubicle that is similar to this. The pointy haired boss comes up with a "TOTALLY BRILLIANT" idea for the company logo and harasses the design department about it. :)
- n00tz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Business needs like bouncing logos, bandwidth intensive videos, and other distracting eye-candy? Those are the only suggestions I've received from my critics (the CEO, CFO, and their ass-kissing upper level management).
Nah. I agree with the author completely. Even my business savvy CFO is lost in the possibilities (read: atrocities) of web design.
When I went (yes, past tense... they didn't like me telling them in more words "that is impractical, unprofessional, and appalling".. so now correspondence is via email only) to meetings they weren't concerned about the sales/practicality aspect of the website, but more-so the look and feel. They were also BENT on theming the site in Black with Orange, ECHKK! Needless to say, I refuse to claim their website on my portfolio as far as appearance goes, just certain functional aspects of the site. - kyleblind, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is why I hate working with/for people who have NO idea about design.
- idesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Having just recently gone through both graphs on one print project.... I completely ***** agree.
- kmbrooks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@halleyscomet:
http://www.gladwell.com/blink/ - pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am digging this with the hopes that some decision-makers will read this and take it to heart.
Also, this applies to all design, not just for the web. I have the same problems as a print designer. - nightsweat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The site is for a "Search Engine Optimization" company.
"Search Engine Optimization" is a polite way of saying spammer/comment spammer/Google hacker. - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Cute, true, but I dislike how the author uses the term 'design' and only refers to the visual aesthetics of the project.
While design-by-committee in terms of aesthetics can lead to disaster, it can actually be a very useful resource in terms of other design aspects: functionality, usability, UI, IA, etc.
Using 'portfolio quality CSS gallery entry' as the definition of good design is very short sighted. - wingnut21, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I completely agree Kavinath. The site isn't a design but just a collection of web design trends, albiet a year or two old. Let's see, we have the diagonal lines, side-shading, high-contrast gradients, reflected text, and grid background design. Unclutter please!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The same trend applies to the number of people involved in the design process."
The business word is called diminishing returns - yanathin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is the truest article I have ever read. I don't know how many times I get pounded with the infamous "it doesn't feel right" line. Then I ask them to explain what they think is wrong, and they give me, "I don't know, I'm just not feeling it."
And my most favorite comment of all is, "It's too artsy." Common people, you hired a graphic artist. What the hell do you expect? (Okay, I'm done with my rant.) - WeeklyGeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Crazy, I'm dealing with a situation that this relates to perfectly! Digg
- steveo2112, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This isn't limited to WEB design.
- slumbuzzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Indeed, very true. The company I've been working for as a designer just folded because of rampant use of panels # 2, # 4, # 5, # 7and # 9.
People who are focused on B2B cold calling, human resources and managerial affairs have no business being in a position where they can comment on or control the design process. !#$%&@*%! - Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And saying "design by committee = bad" is hardly a new insight.
- noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Trader Publishing
Print publishers who got their hands on comptuer people. Utter hell. - captaincookie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Couldn't agree more.
- wulfflower, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They weren't talking about making the coolest design just one that works and doesn't get torn up and look horrible by the time its complete.
- jtrost, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I can see where the author is coming from, but I have to disagree. A web designer's job is not to make the coolest design possible, it's to make a suitable, accessible design that fits that particular company's business needs. In terms of business needs, corporations are more concerned about getting their message across than having the coolest looking website on the Internet/Intranet.
Now a good web designer will be able to balance business needs with design. But a website should always be designed around the content, the content shouldn't be forced into the design. - theadvinci, on 05/27/2008, -0/+1This was excellent...
- mjjack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Awesome post, CasadeMike! I wish I could triple-digg that :) I totally agree (and with pocketwookie below)
I'd also say that the one group a designer really needs to consult is actual users. - chrisgiddings, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You don't have to remind ME about this! As a human interface specialist my mind goes crazy when I look at my employers website or their product interfaces. I just want to BARF most of the day.
- D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1When in doubt, do what I do: Don't think! Screw it up the first time and you will get help the second time around, and have to do no work at all. Unless your an engineer or people's lives are in danger this plan ALWAYS works.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Does that mean you hate the people who visit your sites too? Chances are they don't know much about design either."
He's talking about people he works with and for, not his 'customers'. *****. - iTorrey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Art is subjective, programming is not.
At a SXSW 2006 Panel I heard a great quote and it was something like "Art works better as a dictatorship".
Imaging someone saying to DaVinci "Looks great but don't you think she should smile and show some teeth?" Or to Warhol "that's good, but why not Progressive soup instead?" -
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