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How creativity defeats outsourcing ... anyday.

fruda.com — This is how to keep your job, and how to compete with all of the lowballers in the world. I ’ve seen very many people complain about designers lowering their prices. Every day someone loses their job to a call center in India, or a sweat shop in China.

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  • shadus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27The problem is for the vast majority of people who are outsourced there is nothing they could do to have saved their job.

    Technical support and programmers are an excellent example... happened at one company where I worked.

    They don't outsource one job, or part... they outsource *everyone* without consulting them, without telling them, etc. You get a meeting on friday telling you, "As of monday we're opening a call center in India to do all the technical support and programming. If you have any questions about your severance package or etc...etc..etc. We didn't notify you because of the high rate of turn over that would have resulted."

    The chances of you being the 1-2 people they keep out of 400 are real slim.

    This isn't the job world as our grandparents and parents dealt with... companies don't care, you're just a liability on a tax sheet. Better advice than what was given would be, "Always be on the lookout for a better job and always have an opportunity or two ready to tide you over in the event of being outsourced or laid off due to a company/departmental closure."

    Even my parents generation, as long as you weren't a screw up you could count on the same job until you retired.

    I've personally been through 2 company closures (one was a buyout... which lead to a layoff), a departmental closure, 2 layoffs, and 2 outsourcings... in ~16 years. My parents worked ONE job or TWO jobs and are still working them and will work them till they retire.
    • Neo189, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12This is why it's so important for Americans to have a great education system; there's no way our country will be able to compete unless we increase the quality of our workforce, by making them intelligent, creative, and willing to take initiative. Other countries, I believe, are making steps in this direction, and if we don't do something soon we will lose all of our high paying jobs to third world countries, where people are willing to work for far less.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Creative and Intelligent doesn't keep the labor in our country. It makes you take the positions that aren't being heavily out sourced.

      The most important thing is motivation to work and to better your self.
    • Neo189, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It's true that motivation to better yourself is important, but do the math: if a company has a choice between hiring two equally motivated and highly educated people, an American who would receive an $70000 salary, or someone from India who would be paid, perhaps, $10000 at most, what do you think they're going to do?
    • kitejumping, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15for the record...

      Outsourcing is not bad, it just means sending work off to someone else (ex. contract work)..

      Offshoring is the bad one, it means outsourcing work off shore...

      outsourcing = sending work to another company
      offshoring = outsourcing not done in the us.
    • 6ixed, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0*an American who would receive an $70000 salary, or someone from India who would be paid, perhaps, $10000 at most, what do you think they're going to do?*

      @neo189: The American will still win at the end. Well, you have to keep yourself continually educated, smart in the workplace..and on your toes all the time. As shadus said, our parents and grandparents never had to face this problem. They worked in one or two jobs all throughout their life. If you keep yourself continually abreast of the happenings of your industry, and up to date in your knowledge, no 10k worker from India or Vhina can replace you, no matter how efficient or smart he or she is. Us Americans are extremely resilent. Remember the 1980's ? There was widespread fear, that the Japanese with their superior technical prowess were going to replace USA's lead as the major innovator. That is no more the case. You just watch...we will bounce back. Americans always bounce back. United States is like the mecca for idea and innovation. It's ok if the mundane jobs are outsourced and the challenging ones remain.
    • wowbagger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5As long as Americans want to buy the cheapest dollar t-shirt or want the price reduced on that new TV set then Americans will have to contend with losing their jobs to people willing to work in worse conditions and for less money.

      I personally shop around and give American a chance, I look for goods made here and I can tell you it's not easy.
      It's now a downward spiral until the US becomes cheaper than anywhere else and outsourcing comes back to us. You'll not like that, one bit, there are some awful times that must come before that can happen.

      Or... you take responsibility, buy more American stuff, only deal with a cellphone company that has a US call center. Call your credit card company and cancel it if the call center is in some far off place. You have little time to vote with your money while you still have that power.
    • LogicallyGenius, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6wowbagger

      Thats not gona happen , U americans looted the world for too long now its our turn.

      There is no way a company in US today can afford to loose money by not offshoring, if they do the other who do will prevail. Its time US learn to live and respect others and create a Our way of life where OUr stands for Humanity and not American.

      OR DIE
    • vhold, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6logicallygenius: "Thats not gona happen , U americans looted the world for too long now its our turn."

      Of course, that is the most ironic thing here. American jobs being out sourced to other countries just means that rich Americans are going to own all the intellectual property and those being out sourced to will be held at perpetually lower standards of living, it's the only way they can remain competitive. As they slowly get higher wages, the outsourcing will just move again.

      If you want to dominate the world with your wealth, then stop taking our outsourced jobs and starting getting entrepreneurial.

      With all of these millions of engineers in India, where is the Indian microsoft? The Indian google? Think about it...
    • UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ logicallygenius

      Sounds like you have some pent up anger their buddy. Someone should get you a stress ball.
    • texx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anymore when I call a corporation for the first time the first thing I ask is where I am calling to, if the answer is Albany, Lexington or another US location and I suspect otherwise I ask the zip code for said location. If that one call cannot resolve the problem I call the corporate lines, and refuse to be routed back to the call centers. Any further calls are also made to the corporate numbers as well. With a little digging you can find most corporate numbers.
    • JosephGoss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3logicallygenius : "OR DIE"

      so if i don't agree with you, your going to kill me. you sound like a terrorist
  • teqory, on 10/12/2007, -21/+2***** capitalism!
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6You're welcome to try and make a change here in America or move to, oh I don't know, China?
    • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13LOL. Having lived in the US and two communist countries, capitalism is nice. In both countries, water was turned off during the week. One had the water turn off at 7pm. The other had it turned off Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
    • sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5not to support capitalism or communism, but just to point out the problem with your logic...

      There are capitalist countries that don't even get running water.

      You can't compare rich capitalism with poor communism.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Can you provide some examples?
  • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Would you pay the $900 for an ipod or just have it shipped to you by near-slave labor?
    • curme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2If an ipod costs 900 dollars through ethical labor practices, the entire economic model of industrialized nations would change. CEO's salaries may be only tens of millions of dollars instead of hundreds. If companies were ethical, it would start from the top down, and not effect consumers, not so much that you would notice.

      I think it would be great if there was some kind of law that said something like the workers had to make at least 1% of what the head of the company makes. I think we would get a better product, and a better life for the workers.
    • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Communist.
    • etnu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Most people forget (or aren't aware) that the vast majority of manufacturing jobs are being replaced by machines, not cheaper labor. The United States is still the world's largest manufacturer -- and China isn't even second. China has lost more jobs to automation over the last 15 years than they have gained from other countries -- and, in fact, have lost more jobs in the manufacturing sector overall than the United States in that time period.

      The biggest savings for manufacturing in China aren't really labor anymore, it's the lax environmental regulation and practically non-existent corporate taxes for many businesses. The cost of shipping materials from China to the U.S. is generally more than the basic labor savings on most products.
    • vhold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1etnu: Those are fascinating factoids, could you cite them?
  • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Well at least he didn't have a top 11
  • Galestorm, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5This is what happens when Capitalism is unrestricted.

    Why is it a part of the American Dream for companies to fire thousands of workers just so they can add a few more numbers to their gross income?

    Free market is all well and good, but it is hopelessly optimistic. Businesses need to be restricted from outsourcing; otherwise, American industry as we know it will collapse, and then whose "dream" will be fulfilled?
    • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The free market works best when the labor remains in the borders.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Yeah lets restrict outsourcing just like restricting words like 'Illegal Alien'

      As soon as our nationals get off their asses and want to work these ***** factory jobs I'll agree with you. But until then it's completely hopeless to think that a low income white person would rather work in a factory for less money than what they collect from well fare.

      Everyone thinks that capitalism is bad but look at socialism its what driving out our labor jobs, why work when you don't have to?
    • Galestorm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@bobcrotch

      Welfare doesn't give you nearly as much money as minimum wage does. Saying that everyone who doesn't have a job is lazy is completely fallacious. And your comments on socialism show me that you understand little about it. A mixed market economy is the best kind.
    • NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"The free market works best when the labor remains in the borders."

      Where did you get that ***** from? That no longer makes the market free.

      I for one am looking forward to losing my $65,000 job to Asia/Africa, and I hope you lose yours too. It would mean the world economy works, and no pathetic anti-globalization laws are getting in the way of a prosperous world economy. Yes, we would be at a temporary disadvantage, but try to not look at it from your own selfish point of view for a moment.
    • 6ixed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4*This is what happens when Capitalism is unrestricted.*

      @Galestorm: Capitalism needs to be unrestricted. Capitalism works best when there's competition. And I mean ruthless competition. Previously it used to be restricted between the 1st world countries, and now the 3rd world countries has barged in. Unfeterred, Unrestricted, Unhindered Capitalism brings out the best in us. But the thing is, that China and India dont play nice. Our economic borders are open 100%, while their's are open at the most 20%. Anybody can import almost whatever they want from China and outsource whatever they want to India and China...but try exporting to those countries...or try insourcing to India. You'd face a labyrinth of mazes of laws and bureaucracy. But I believe, that these outsourcing will actually work towards our benefit in the long term. It will force the average American worker and the companies to to become more efficient and more intelligently productive and more entreprenuial.
    • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Free market is all well and good, but it is hopelessly optimistic. Businesses need to be restricted from outsourcing; otherwise, American industry as we know it will collapse, and then whose "dream" will be fulfilled?"

      Humanity's you elitist *****.
      Wealth should be distributed to the people that earn it, not the people that live within the same political border of those who earn it.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I don't know about you but I don't work 40+ hours a week to earn my 50k a year to help you and all the other people who 'deserve' it because.... they're also human? ***** that it's not my job to pay your meal ticket.

      The growing trend of socialism in this country is really messed up.
    • beotch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2You know what happens to monkeys that hoard food while living among a starving population in the wild? They get beaten to death. Maybe I made that up, but if you're a rich human that is what you can expect if you start hoarding more than is fair.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Who are you to judge whats 'fair'? I work for everything I have, no credit cards and no money from my family or friends. I don't think I should have to pay someone else's meal ticket because you don't think it's 'fair'.

      Thats just bull *****.
    • intangible, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Galestorm

      I agree with bobcrotch; I come from the perspective of growing up in a welfare household with friends in welfare households. The majority of people on welfare ARE just lazy and see no reason to work. Go into any government housing community and wait around long enough and you'll find that people will walk up to you and ask for you to buy $100 worth of Food Stamps for $75 so they can buy their cigarettes and whatever else food stamps don't buy. As long as you give people handouts, they will lay around and take it instead of getting motivated to do anything.
      I have little sympathy for most people on welfare, and that includes over half my family.
  • TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The thing about this is companies don't care about "creativity" so to speak, they care about efficiency and how much money they have to spend. I also don't believe outsourcing is a problem in the design world (at least web design, industrial design is another game) considering it only takes less than a handful of people to create an image rather than the 100+ programmers and tech support personnel.
  • monergism, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3this got buried quickly :-/
  • morningmatters, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There is no way to stop outsourcing because capitalism and the whole demand vs supply thing. Even if Americans were more creative at the top, companies still need basic mindless drones to do simple tasks and if these tasks can be outsourced they will eventually be.

    I guess we all just need to position ourselves to do service types jobs (such as sales, medical, security, etc) which cannot be outsourced or replaced by illegal immigrants.
  • javasharp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Its all about money :(
    • 6ixed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1*Its all about money :( *

      @javasharp: When I was in school, one summer I worked in a hotel as a room service waiter. A mexican busboy working over there pretty much summed up capitalism with this comment:

      *Mucho Dinero Poquito Travajo*

      It means, ton of money for hardly enough work. For him though, it was:
      *Mucho Travajo Poquito Dinero*
      ton of work for a busboy and hardly enough money

  • milarepa, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Call me crazy, but I don't have confidence that someone who can't grasp the difference between its and it's has the ability to describe the subtle interplay of global economics, design, creativity and outsourcing in less than a page.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4You're crazy because judging someone's intelligence based on grammar and spelling is silly.
  • jcm267, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"The World is Flat" is actually a great book... I recommend it to anyone who needs a good intro to globalization that wasn't produced by Alex Jones.

    This is one of the points that Friedman kept hammering in... We need to invest in education (especially in math and science), we need to encourage our youngins to be engineering and science majors. It's no coincidence that best high tech companies in the world are in the USA for the most part. We have always had the best Universities, and thus the best graduates.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Also "The Lexus and the Olive Tree" is another great read that is on topic.
  • MDrake, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I don't see how Capitalists bitch about losing their jobs when it is a natural progression of Capitalism. If you don't like it, move to a country with a different economic structure.
  • anewname, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I would not hire this *****.
  • wowbagger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I've heard of idiots even training their replacements !
    How dumb do you have to be ?
    I'd never, ever, train a replacement outsourced foreigner. If they are smart enough to do my job then they can learn it the same way I did.
    Training your replacement is just plain dumb. Some companies try to withhold severance pay on condition you train them.
    If that ever floats past my desk, I'll pick up my belongings and walk the same day.
    And since I'm 6'5" tall and weigh 220 lbs, I seriously doubt some dweeb in HR will stop me.
  • picto, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Here's why I totally like this article. Most American's tend to have a bit of a high horse they ride on, all the while sitting blindly to the fact that they don't realize that it's what you CAN do versus what you can SAY you can do (a "walk the walk" versus "talk the talk" scenario). You have to realize that your labor, your product, is something you are essentially selling to your employer and you have to do just that; sell it, standout, and above all, prove your worth. Businesses are around with one goal in mind: to stay in business. So if there are resources available to do the same thing you can do for less, a business will try to reduce their cost of labor. And at the risk of being dugg down for saying this, it's not an entirely bad process; it keeps businesses moving (or at least in the short term). But what has seemed to be a point of divergence in the outsourcing argument is that businesses, while saving in labor expenditures, incur enormous amounts of overhead simply for doing so. What businesses can't do when outsourcing various tasks (one of the biggest drawbacks) is allow a project manager to walk three cubes down and get a project status update in under 2 minutes from an employee. And it's this fact alone why a lot of businesses steer clear of outsourcing their entire development forces; it may be great to save a buck or two to increase marginal profits for the quarter, but the value added for convenience, response time, and dependability of someone in-office outweighs those profits outright. What you do see is businesses sending mundane, "code-monkey" tasks that require little or no knowledge of the project, just a working knowledge of whatever programming language as well as a set of guidelines to provide a product that will perform a certain task (i.e. I need a class/script/library written that does...). But all in all, outsourcing is grossly over embellished. You may face a problem if all you do for a company is sit and hammer out scripts all day (the proverbial "code-monkey" as stated before). But if you can essentially market a product (yourself and the labor you can provide), and market it well, businesses will be very apprehensive to even consider outsourcing your job: the value-added for the product is just that great.
    • picto, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2*slow clap*

      Well played TiCL......well played.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Grammar and spelling are one thing but lumping together a wall of text is just horrible.
    • picto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@TiCL and bobcrotch

      In retrospect, I don't remember it being that long when I typed it up. Though I should've used my 2 minutes instead of closing the page.

      My bad
  • bungimail, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think we need to put outsourcing in its proper context. I work for a high tech firm that is outsourcing work to China and India heavily. Yet it is still hiring more workers in North America and its staff is growing.

    Outsourcing is a complicated phenomena. It isn't just about saving money. It is also about diversifying your operations. That is not to say that outsourcing isn't hurting American and Canadian workers. It definitely is at least in the short term. However I don't think a ban is realistic. I also think outsourcing is good in the long term. It results in greater efficiency, a much larger consumer market, far more innovation and in the long term higher salaries and more jobs (due to consumption, new markets etc as a result of a growing middle class in China and India).

    In the short term the key is adaptation. Change careers, change jobs, upgrade skills, become an entrepreneur etc. You don't have to work in IT. Also there are many jobs like consulting, sales, health, marketing, finance, teaching, that are more immune to outsourcing. There are a lot of opportunities out there. You won't get them though by hoping something falls in your lap, criticizing capitalism or thinking about the unfairness of life.
    • bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The jobs that are being outsourced to China and India really are the grunt labor of the IT field. Coding and tech support aren't really high profile jobs. They are outsourced for a reason.
  • unsolicited, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Employment is to survive in life.
    Entrepreneurship is to succeed in life.
    ESOPs are the win-win proposition.
    maaparty@gmail.com
  • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Chinese people can't be more creative than Americans.
    They're too short.

    Stupid job stealers.
    • ioral, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5> They're too short.
      Yao Ming.

      (I am not Chinese)
    • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Stupid Americans can't understand sarcasm.
      Jesus Assraping Christ, I hate this country.
    • dgr814vr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@narmak
      And with a comment like that you have just lost your argument
    • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Actually, you've proven my point.
      Think about it.
  • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1^^^^Paraphrase of the story title.^^^^
  • matsyes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7India and China together have more than 8 times the population of the US ...those guys also have to make their living and ...they are willing to work harder for less and provide the same quality ...most of the arguments i hear against outsourcing is that it's cheaper so it must be worse ... well thats the same argument microsoft gives for linux and we know how accurate that is . The simple reasoning is that you have 8 times the population of US and hence you have 8 times the number of creative and talented people compared to the US those guys are also going to use thier intelligence to get ahead in the world and companies which outsource are just globalizing and establishing a base in these countries so that they can make a profit as these talented people go places.
    • NarmaK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Of course you are getting dugg down.
      Diggers talk the big talk when Iraqis are getting murdered, but when some Chinese guy wants to design web pages instead of breaking his back as a rice farmer for pennies a week, he's stealing yer fercking jerrrrrrb.
    • Phoenixnf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You can also compare the money earned by a farmer and a Web designer (outsourced or not).
  • unsolicited, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Global capitalism will only succeed when race to the bottom is prevented in the world.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_safety_net
  • PaulSu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Most technology company outsource because they need to satisfied stock holder and invester. Also they're atleast 3 time cheaper. My company move to India for cheap labor and I was an engineer getting layoff and so I would not encourage anyone study to become an engineer? Half the engineer graduate probably don't get a jobs. No matter how great american education system get, they cannot compete for cheap labor.
  • TDR25, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1One way to stop outsourcing and to keep money in your pockets is to do with the person that has that blog has done...just that, create a useless blog that doesn't say anything, and stick ads on it to draw revenue. It seems to have worked well for that person.
  • etnu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If you do not work in a creative or highly trained discipline, your job can and will be farmed out to the lowest bidder.

    If you do not work for a software or other technology company, and you're a software/hardware engineer, you do not work in a creative or highly trained discipline. You are a cost center for the company, not a strategic asset. Get over it and find a job at a company that actually needs technical people.

    Right now the global job market is excellent for software and other engineers. Anyone with a decent skill set can easily get a job that pays 50-100% above the median wage for whatever area you're living in (even more if you live in a poorer country like India or Russia). Even in India, companies are having trouble finding qualified people.

    If you're in the software industry and you can't find a job, it's not because all the jobs went to / are going to India -- it's because you aren't as good as you think you are. Learn skills that people actually care about. Hardly anyone hires C++ GUI programmers anymore, and Java developers are a dime a dozen.

    If you think software engineering is "just programming" (i.e. implementing someone else's ideas), you shouldn't be in this industry -- please leave.

    I can guarantee that anyone with a 4 year degree and a few years of experience, who isn't a total moron, can get a job making at least $75-90k a year in Silicon Valley (and that's just "average"). No, seriously, if you know anyone with these qualifications there are several openings at good companies. Just search on hotjobs or monster, or check the huge list of open reqs at Yahoo or Google.
  • pklipp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am an American who moved to Poland to start a software company in 2004. I have say, these people are not lacking in creativity. They are open to agile development methods and working closely with clients to find creative solutions to problems and the work ethic is great. Offshoring is not a matter of "throw a pile of documents over the wall and pray" anymore. Outsourcing does not have to be what it was in the early part of this decade.
  • antechinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What nonsense. There are creative people in every culture. Outsource to a creative designer and you will still save money.
  • masterofNone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1how does this sort of blogspam make it this far? check out the "about" section. they haven't even bothered to complete the word press template.
  • weaz1dls, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Is there a term for Digg Spam? There were more plugs in that blog than there are on the GE production line. They followed to a T what is to be done for marketing on digg. Major clue, entire article is a heated opinionated story. Never mind that there may very well be a good point, I am so busy cleaning your pile of " " of my shoes that missed the point entirely. I believe manipulation of this site in any form is a pathetic.
  • popstalin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've found from my experience that often people who seek creative services offshore, don't end up having a great experience and then come back to the US to find their solution. That's not to say that there aren't positive experiences or positive experiences to be had. My biggest issue with this is that the people who are getting the offshore work are being taken advantage of. If you really want to take your money offshore, please don't take advantage of the people you're hiring.

    I get the whole "get it cheaper" argument but to what extent is it worth it if you're degrading other human beings to do it? I know most corporations don't really care about that but we as consumers ought to be thinking about it. That's why I won't shop at Wal-Mart... because of the way the company takes advantage of their workers in China and I take that responsibility on myself to make that stand if you'd want to call it that. The more we support this type of morally ambiguous offshoring the more it's going to happen and it won't be long before workers in the US are expected to be treated the same way as our foreign counterparts.
  • wiener, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Sorry, I called your bluff and tried to validate the XHTML using the proudly displayed link
    might be an idea to remove the link and concentrate on "creativity"
  • nutzngum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I work as a designer for a mid-size internet company.

    I guess I'm an outsource employee - our company is based in the States and they decided to locate their main office in Canada because at the time the US dollar was worth 65 cents Canadian and it was more cost effective.

    I'm not thrilled with the thought that I might be taking a job away from someone else, but I didn't make the decision to send my company's offices to another country (even if it IS Canada). My salary is decent - I'm actually paid more than the industry average for Graphic designers (unless you're Bruce Mau or the like, graphic designers in Canada are shamefully underpaid), and I like my job.

    My point? I guess I don't have one - except maybe that if anyone should be blamed for this, it's *not* the folks that get hired by companies that outsource.
  • MasterSmatty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@Galestorm

    >>This is what happens when Capitalism is unrestricted.

    Why is it a part of the American Dream for companies to fire thousands of workers just so

    they can add a few more numbers to their gross income?

    Free market is all well and good, but it is hopelessly optimistic. Businesses need to be

    restricted from outsourcing; otherwise, American industry as we know it will collapse, and

    then whose "dream" will be fulfilled?I< have become less

    competetive and consumers will go elsewhere to by products(ie. from the same people who I

    was forced NOT to hire). Or should they be forced to buy products from me since I was forced

    to produce to keep them employed? You are using 1 step logic. Only considering what you feel

    should be done and not what will result from the actions you wish to impose.


    >"Welfare doesn't give you nearly as much money as minimum wage does. Saying that everyone who doesn't have a job is lazy is completely fallacious.<

    I agree that not everyone without a job is lazy. I disagree that welfare and minimum wage are not roughly equal. After all the benefits and actual money is tallied welfare does indeed pay you roughly the same as minimum wage. You should also be aware that some people who are on welfare go and find jobs that pay equal to or less than minimum wage and earn under the table income to support their lifestyles.(lifestyles in this case equals stealing and not the ability to afford hedonsim) ;)



    @6ixed
    I agree with what you said about Capitalism being unrestricted. However, countries like India, and China(and to some small extent Japan) are only hurting themselves buy restricting our exports (which are huge btw). If those countries were unrestricted then our goods would have to compete with theirs but because they are not then they are forced to buy goods....some of which cannot compete with ours and their consumers are worse off for it.

  • MasterSmatty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0then whose "dream" will be fulfilled?I< have become less

    competitive and consumers will go elsewhere to by products(ie. from the same people who I

    was forced NOT to hire). Or should they be forced to buy products from me since I was forced

    to produce to keep them employed? You are using 1 step logic. Only considering what you feel

    should be done and not what will result from the actions you wish to impose.


    >"Welfare doesn't give you nearly as much money as minimum wage does. Saying that everyone who doesn't have a job is lazy is completely fallacious.<

    I agree that not everyone without a job is lazy. I disagree that welfare and minimum wage are not roughly equal. After all the benefits and actual money is tallied welfare does indeed pay you roughly the same as minimum wage. You should also be aware that some people who are on welfare go and find jobs that pay equal to or less than minimum wage and earn under the table income to support their lifestyles.(lifestyles in this case equals stealing and not the ability to afford hedonism) ;)



    @6ixed
    I agree with what you said about Capitalism being unrestricted. However, countries like India, and China(and to some small extent Japan) are only hurting themselves buy restricting our exports (which are huge btw). If those countries were unrestricted then our goods would have to compete with theirs but because they are not then they are forced to buy goods....some of which cannot compete with ours and their consumers are worse off for it.



  • maxmcleod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I had a major Indian media company offshore their work to me (here in the States) because they wanted American-style quality and design sensibility. I've also had a cheap U.S. employer offshore their work to India. It works both ways. But the US company was extremely unhappy and tried to hire me back 30 days later. I said no, they went under. Of course, different industries are affected differently, but I have had little reason to fear offshoring.
  • BushJ, on 10/23/2007, -0/+0crativity rules.. +1


    http://www.weather.com/search/partner?Keywords=%22 ...
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    http://www.weather.com/search/partner?Keywords=%22 ...
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/newssearch.php?key ...
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