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51 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30The digg system has jumped the shark. now because of the way the rating system works, its a popularity contest run by a very small number of very narrow minded people.
now watch my mod rating...
another great example of why digg has reached its peter point. narrow mindedness rules. broad opinions, even when stated well, get killed. - funkaHdafi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28HTML does not belong to emails. period.
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22HTML email is an atrocity, end of story. Email is for plain text, not rtf, doc, pdf, html, executable scripts, or anything else. If you want to send someone something other than text, that's what attachements are for.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Amen! The nice thing about Thunderbird (and most other decent clients, if you search hard enough) is that it can be configured to display html email as text. If the clowns who put the bling in their email weren't smart enough to include a text version of their content, then Thunderbird doesn't display anything, and that chunk-o-spam is on the fast track for deletion.
There used to be a guy on slashdot with a .sig that read something like "Programmers get so excited that they 'can', that they don't stop to think about whether they 'should'". I think the same applies to marketeers, times ten!
Put simply, there's no legitimate reason to include HTML content in the body of an email message. It's randomly rendered at best by virtue of the infinite array of clients and viewing window sizes, and just downright irresponsible.
Allowing display of HTML, CSS, images in email is silly, downright dangerous. - uptown, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19I emailed my comment ...
- Phoenyx, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21(well, it did get a digg from kevinrose)
- sapped, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12This part of the article really says everything that needs to be said about HTML emails;
Add a text-based link to a web-based version of your email that will reveal your email in the browser in all its glory.
If you want people to see formatting and images and stuff like that, then send them a link. - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11You could, you know, STOP SENDING ***** emails!
- hydrokool, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Although this article included some good things to point out to people designing and developing HTML emails, the results of using CSS across various email clients is vastly different in different OS's. WinXP IE6 Hotmail is actually not the same as Win2000 IE 5.5 Hotmail. So your CSS will render differently. My company tested a variety of 57 scenarios and we basically came to the conclusion that using CSS does not hit a broad enough market for proper rendering of HTML email. To each their own I guess.
- stutheidiot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Should you use CSS or (horror of horrors) tables?"
No. - brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I don't really care if my emails look pretty. I just want the people to read what I'm saying. I don't want them to look at the pretty colors and pictures, if I wanted that I'd send them a website.
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"Amazing...yea HTML isnt for email-BS. Some people are stupid. You can control your email tools preferences to view plan text/html - get over yourselves."
HTML isn't for email. How it ever got to be used in email is beyond me, have you ever been part of a subscribed list and gotten nothing but a mess of code? I think not otherwise, you too would hate HTML.
Email is meant for small fast personal communication, not for your advertisements. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11umm... duh...
The article points out a problem that should be rather obvious. If anyone who sends HTML e-mail has never heard for programs that don't be default show html e-mail they really are in a world all to themselves. I think the article is a waste of space and unecessary. This to a company sending mass html e-mails is like a wiki-howto that teaches 25 year olds how to breath while sleeping. - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7> scooterMX wrote: "The digg system has jumped the shark. now because of the way the rating system works, its a popularity contest run by a very small number of very narrow minded people."
I don't think I agree with that. But I do wonder if Digg would actually be improved if people couldn't mod-down comments but could only mod-up comments. I think this would be an improvement for three reasons...
1) Too many people mod-down in an effort simply to hide an opposing point-of-view. Even when (or sometimes especially when) the opposing point-of-view is well thought out and well written. This is short-sighted at best and damaging at worst.
2) We've all seen countless comments that were modded-down where it was clear that many people simply missed the point being made. More likely they didn't take the time to understand.
3) By giving visitors the option to push comments only in one direction, up, I think they'd think twice about making the commitment simply because they are afraid of promoting an idea they don't agree with. And unless you're in a "fight-or-flight" situation, thinking two or more times before acting can oftentimes be a good idea. - CalPaterson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@richardyork
You just don't get it. HTML mail is a complete waste of network resources. There are no advantages other than simple prettiness. It's complicated, and renders like crap in most situations. UTF-8 should be the only thing you bother with. - fyngyrz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Absolutely agree.
- Edogz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm working on a system designing templates for permission based email. I keep running into this problem where it is trivial if your email and it's design (with html, css, and images) will display in their email client. It has caused a lot of headaches and I found this article to understand where I'm coming from. I picked up a few tips from this! =)
- 83457, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14yes because comments are much more important than diggs
- jimmiejaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Mutt 1.4.2.1i *mmmmm*
HTML in an email is a plague, much like a capsLOCK key. Get the tools to remove it.
If you need to send me a table, or graphics, or multicolor documents, use PDF. - mrblister, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4We did a regression on CSS with just under 1100 variations, and found that just about 65% of the combinations were found to be acceptable though not identical. Based on the first standard deviation of browsers and platform usage, that amounts to hitting a page display target in about 88% of the cases. Most of our clients find that number acceptable for broad marketing. Others, armed with our analysis, can hit narrower targets (for example a client that sells Mac software is a little more interested in how Safari works than how Netscape works).
When you design better pages, and avoid vertain common pitfalls, you can reach a broader audience than most people think. It's just not as easy as cranking out a heavily formatted page from Front Page and thinking its going to look the same on everyone's browser. - lambda, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13Agree! HTML doesn't belongs in emails. I mean, who ever wants to send a URL that doesn't get line wrapped! Or wants to reply with changes written in a different color, or wants to use different fonts for program code and discussion?</sarcasm>
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Just as an aside, I've noticed in the last few minutes here that someone is running through the comments here and giving thumbs-down to anyone who expresses an opinion that is anti HTML in email.
It would be nice if other diggers would counter that and at least bring the dissenting comments back up to +1 where they started. - sclozza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd say effective search options are more useful at finding that important email than pretty pictures and rounded corners.
- comradechimp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3for long URLs I consider using tinyurl only polite.
I definitely notice an inverse relationship between formatting and useful information in the emails I receive. Although HTML email doesn't tick me off as much as the "memo as .doc attachment containing nothing that couldn't be adequately represented in plain text" syndrome. - WeeklyGeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4please tell that to the corporate CEO who demands their newsletter look like their website. Or to the customer who actually ENJOYS pretty pictures in their email. You are tech savvy - you see it from a completely different perspective than, say, 70% of the emailing populace.
- YellowBook, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think there's definitely a place a for HTML email. It looks a lot more polished than plain text especially for publishing legitimate newsletters where you can achieve a magazine feel.
What I dislike about HTML email is the fact that is gets abused. For example, by spammers who send meaningless emails with hidden HTML tags that log your page views and then propogate your email address to all of their mailing lists and their affiliate's lists etc etc. It's the invasion of privacy that sucks. - richardyork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@CalPaterson
Um, you don't get it. There are people, dare I call them customers, who demand their company logo appears in their email, and marketing departments that want more than text. We can argue about semantics and whether it's the most efficient way, but customers don't care about any of that, they want HTML.
I personally prefer plain text email, but I'm not so naive to think that's the way everyone wants it, and when someone is paying me to create email on their behalf, I don't impose my viewpoints. It's an argument that's especially easy to ignore when it's possible to have your cake and eat it too in the same email. - richardyork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@hydro
What I don't get is why people are talking about hotmail like it's a browser. Obviously it strips out the head of an HTML message, as does just about every web-based mail service, but beyond that the capabilities of hotmail are more or less the same as the browser you are using.
Points off on this article for not even mentioning embedded images. Externally linked images are blocked because they can be used to track whether or not a message was viewed, and thus propagate spam to a verified email address. Embedded images are rarely blocked, since they are contained entirely within the message.
As to CSS support in email, including the style element within the body isn't valid HTML. The style element belongs nested within the head element, always. Inline styles are the least likely to be screwed with by clients. But anyone with a clue about how HTML email works will tell you to avoid anything but presentational markup and possibly, inline styles.
For all you zealots screaming about plain text email, the best approach is to generate a multipart message, with an HTML part and a plain text part. Your client will automatically select your preferred format, provided the option exists, and you've configured it correctly. And the option almost always exists. Any email generation library worth a damn includes the ability to create multipart email in this way. My favorite is Richard Heyes's HTMLMimeMail for PHP, see http://www.phpguru.org
That said, despite the obvious holes in the material covered that I just mentioned, I think this is an excellent article. Props to these guys for spending so much time gathering this information. - Mysk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Not necessarily sclozza. He's referring to his eyes finding the important information. Information about the subject, being it the number of items to be shipped or data about a product. This is not stuff that you can search for because you don't know what it is that you're searching for.
For example, you can't just search for "foo" because the data that's being presented could be about a house and the various items that need to be fixed.
In this case, an ordered list is very important. It's like writing a resume. Information needs to be structured and clearly presented. Especially if the person deals in hundreds of such emails (about any subject) per day.
Speaking in a more general sense. one of digg's "problems" is that there are too many technically minded people here. Metaphorically speaking, it's like a group of engineers. They can't see the importance of a nice looking user interface and they could "never" make one if they tried. Digg users, on the same token, sometimes can't see beyond their own technical point of view and are unable to understand why the non-technical masses find something to be useful.
HTML email is very useful and very important. Many go way the fark over board with it, effectively mis-using it, but that doesn't make it useless or mean that it should be done away with. It just means that there's a lot of MySpace idiots out there (reference to poor use of html and design). - beaujross, on 07/02/2009, -1/+2Good point Hydro... sounds like you work a shop that knows what they are doing.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9If you're not smart enough to wrap your URLs in greater-than/less-than characters so that your standards compliant email *doesn't* wrap it, then you don't deserve to be allowed to use email!
- pletch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good article. I don't think CSS in HTML emails is nearly as important compared to websites. But it definitely helps for easier updates and cleaner code. It will be nice when all email clients catch up with full CSS support (including positioning).
And regardless on how you personally feel about HTML emails, you know your client/supervisor/manager or CEO will want them, so you might as well get use to it.
- my first digg. - banglogic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sigh.
For the record, this article was not written as a debate on HTML email vs. Plain Text. It is about how to write HTML emails well. The issue of whether or not to do it is outside of the scope and should be moot by now. HTML emails are not going to go away. Sorry, not going to happen. The best we can hope for is improvements in security, standards, methods and implementation. Cope.
* Yes, I know that HTML email gets abused by spammers. So does every other exploitable resource in the web-connected world. It's a profit-motive thing.
* Yes, HTML email complicates things and renders differently in different environments. Too bad. Code it, test it, adjust it, work it.
There are legitimate uses of HTML email. Really, there are. If you want to live in an all-text world, hey, go for it. You can do it. But your boss probably doesn't. Neither does the marketing department, nor do the majority of consumers.
As for me, my email subscriptions are always *plain text*. It's my preference. But I don't pretend that my preferences are the same as everyone else's. - _jinx_, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree, but people look so bad on tables like they are the worst thing in the world. I disagree entirely, yes tables can cause a lot of problems sometimes, however it does have its pluses including:
1. SEO Spider friendly
2. Tabular Data display effeciency ( while you can still style them with css )
3. Easy and quick writing.
I am not praising Tables at all but at times you waste hours on time coding tags when all you had to do was use 1 table to display it, just my 2 cents. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm technically minded, and I can see the benefits of a good user interface....
I'd put that damn [reply] link somewhere else, for a start.. - trebaum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Fa-sho...
- inovice, on 05/22/2008, -0/+0Designed emails are not just a pretty appearence of information but for some companies its a part of their marketing, branding etc.i think.
- knightnet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In a corporate environment, HTML emails are VERY useful.
It is much better in every way for people to do some simple layout using an HTML layout than to attach a word document. - banglogic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Digg: solid, well-written article. The images must *enhance* the email, not *comprise*.
- coreydoucorey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nice indeed. Is anyone able to open this link?
- pohodo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I think HTML emails have their place. Adding nice enhancing imagery and color really allows the reader to be (potentially) more efficient at digesting the information. For certain kinds of emails, I find it similar to browsing the web with CSS and images turned off. Sure, it's possible, but it's certainly not very fun and definitely more difficult to scan the pages looking for what you need.
Plus, it's nice to add a little subtle branding to your messages.
So, my important keywords here were enhancing and subtle.
At any rate, I think the article was quite helpful for people who haven't ever had to deal with rich emails before. - GuidoSan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0As I'm new to writing HTML formatted emails, this article provided a good overview. Now I check what my emails look like in my browser with images turned off. As far as checking compatibility in multiple email clients, I decided to use MailChimp.com as my Newsletter manager/bulk mailing service. They have a fantastic tool (Inbox Inspector) for automatically checking compatibility in the most widely used mail clients AND firewalls/SPAM filters. They go further to provide you with fixes. How disappointing it would be for a customer to subscribe to my newsletter and not be able to receive it because my email was intercepted by their SPAM filters. Here's a link if this is helpful to anyone else: http://www.mailchimp.com/add-ons/inboxinspector/
- BushJ, on 10/23/2007, -0/+0when images blocked i do this way
http://www.weather.com/search/partner?Keywords=%22 ...
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/newssearch.php?key ...
http://www.weather.com/search/partner?Keywords=%22 ...
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/newssearch.php?key ...
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/newssearch.php?key ... - wiredforpower, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5since gmails big security hole, I think allowing HTML and CSS should be up to the user. duh.
- deesine, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Wooosh.
DoubtfulSalmon: Wut's that sound? - Digitalmafia, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12 comments:
1. "You could, you know, STOP SENDING ***** emails!"
---->Amazing...yea HTML isnt for email-BS. Some people are stupid. You can control your email tools preferences to view plan text/html - get over yourselves.
2. "Should you use CSS or (horror of horrors) tables?"
---->People are Idiots to seperate html from css as an art or skill. If you cant do both your dead in the water and I wouldnt hire you. Its like ONLY coding one language...what happens when you are PAID to code another...Oh thats right most css anti html folks are IDE whores who couldnt write a line of code if they had to....
In regards to the article-When creating HTML/CSS Emails you code to whatever standard will get you the most penetration (It is about money). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6Oh never mind, thats why its on the front page, silly kevin...
- fissionchips303, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4HTML email is a necessity and the sooner all email clients support it the better.
It is infinitely more readable to have a properly formatted HTML email with ordered and unordered lists, italics, bold, embedded links and so on, than simply plain text. It is a necessity when dealing in high-volume email to be able to quickly find information, and all of these things greatly assist in that regard. - flipper26, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Has everyone gone mad. HTML email is great, I love it, in fact I like it so much I have a lovely free application for the sole purpose of creating such email. LiveWire Campaign bring it on!
- hydrokool, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1.............
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