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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40I saw a History Channel documentary on this. It's very interesting... they're reluctant because there's a better technology in the works: liquid that hardens where pressure is, ONLY while the pressure is on it, and hardens in proportion to the pressure. Still top secret though, could only show us what it looked like. It's perfect for stopping bullets and to actually SHATTER them. With liquid.
- luke--, on 10/12/2007, -4/+40dragon skin....maybe i can find some in Oblivion
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+42"liquid that hardens where pressure is"
goto your kitchen, get some corn flour and mix it with water, have a play with that ;) - johndi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27The US and Canada used ski suits in the olympics this year that hardened on impact, very cool.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186325,00.html - perryge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27They don't use it because dragon-slaying is no longer socially accepted.
- jool, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27Yes the lowest bidder that at the same time gives the largest bribe. Oh did I say bribe? I meant campaign contribution.
- CBau, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Short rant here, please bear with me.
Soldiers and Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan have a problem. A few years ago, the DoD accepted the Interceptor vest as the de facto new body armor. This was done for good reason, and the DoD put the military in the best armor available at the time. This was good, and the military rejoiced. It started out lighter and more effective than the older equipment.
The problem:
Soon after the mass deployment of said equipment it became obvious that the standard vest was not effective against all types of attack, namely the bullets the enemy were shooting at them. The solution to this was to add the SAPI plates, shoulder pieces, side protection, shorts, and the list goes on. This has added greatly to the weight and strain a military member is under. This problem has also been compounded by the fact that politicians who don't know what they are talking about and will never bear the strain of wearing 50+ lbs. of gear started screaming (for political purposes) that the military needed more armor. The military started to grumble.
The change:
Soldiers and Marines were realizing that the massive amount of armor they were now wearing was making them combat ineffective. You can be armored to the teeth, but if you can't move as quickly as you need to you will be an armored pulp dead on the battlefield. Units began to tell their service members not to wear all of their gear, and some individuals looked toward lighter, more effective body armor.
The solution:
The media has caught wind that the military is sick and tired of others deciding when enough armor is enough. They reported that Soldiers and Marines were not wearing all the gear supplied to them, or buying armor from other sources that was lighter and more effective. In response, the DoD said in effect, "Fine, you don't think the gear we give you is good enough? You are no longer allowed to wear anything unless we specifically issue it to you."
The REAL solution (should be):
The DoD should put military members in the best armor available. If Dragonskin if more effective (and tests certainly do make it seem that way) then it should be issued. If Interceptor wins out, then Soldiers and Marines will just have to grumble. - OmniMe, on 10/12/2007, -8/+27The military is so reluctant because none of the brass as any cronies working for Dragon Skin. That's the only way to get a huge government contract is to know someone in the government. Dragon Skin doesn't benifit their friends = no sale. It's sad though..
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24Another few points:
1) Can Dragon Skin fulfill an order by the military for 1 million suits of armor in a timely fashion?
2) Has Dragon Skin tried to sell to the military?
3) Are the diggers aware that there are many hoops and regulations to go through when selling to the military? It's not as simple as the military placing an order, it's more like Dragon Skin sending the military a proposal to sell.
4) Is there something better on the horizon to make buying Dragon Skin now a waste of taxpayer money? (sort of like buying a Power PC Mac when you know Intel Macs are only a few months away.)
5) Is it possible something other then armor reliability is the issue? Could it be a conflict in the gear a soldier wears? Think of armored Hummers, yeah they protect better but they also blow through transmissions more often and the MPG drops significantly when you add 2,000 lbs of weight to the vehicle!
6) Is Dragon Skin using this as a publicity issue to get around the hoops and regulations dealing with military hardware procurement? - zoto, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Armageddon (1998):
Rockhound: "You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?" - Brak710101, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21And may I quote a movie...
"Arn't you glad we are flying to mars on a ship made from parts from the lowest bidder?" - HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19The biggest problem with military procurement is that the contract goes to the lowest bidder.
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19It's not just military contracts, ALL government contracts work this way.
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Yes, the owner has been on all the major news networks. They can fully supply the entire military RIGHT NOW. They are stocked and ready. He has constantly tried to talk to Rumsfeld, who won't meet with him. The owner said he will gladly give a demonstration anytime, anywhere. Waiting on the Pentagon's call. Rumsfeld has been quoted by saying the military has all they need and are ok..... :-(
- Flankk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17@ johndi
"The military, meanwhile, is looking to improve bullet-proof vests, which are good at stopping projectiles, but not as good at stopping sharp instruments such as an ice pick."
Since when is an ice pick a weapon of war? I believe soldiers should be trained to dodge the ice picks, like Super Mario. Good to see taxpayers' dollars put to good use. At least our men will soon be protected from those rooftop harpoons. - mr804, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12That's not always true. a lot of contracts are performance based. You've watched too many movies.
- achoi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"So why is the military so reluctant to issue it to U.S. solders?"
My guess is that acquiring dragon skin is not the most economical route (plus it's also a pain in the ass to skin dragons). I would imagine hunting dragons down for their skins would be pretty hazardous. The military would have better luck just dropping dragons down on their intended target - let the bad guys deal with the dragons instead, and no risk to soldier's lives. Of course, once the bad guys manage to drop a dragon, they'll have easy access to dragon skin which means we're screwed. - hugepedlar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Try killing some rats. They'll eat anything.
- Kestral, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16Here's some armor that's 100% effective and doesn't cost a damn thing: bring the troops home.
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9He has enough on hand right now to stock the entire military?
Is this guy insane? It sounds like he bet his whole business on selling to the military!
How much debt is this guy holding to have that many suits of body armor 'on hand and ready' ??? - BrandonMills, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Blessed +2 Gray Dragon Scale Mail
or Blessed +2 Silver Dragon Scale Mail if you already have magic resistance.
Either way, the average Nethack player could have told the military that years, even decades ago. :) - TechGK, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I wear the IBA, and know it's capabilities of protecting me. The Dragon Skin really doesn't sound like much of an advantage to me. Getting shot more than once in the chest isn't the most likely thing to happen to you. By that, my IBA will do just fine. To bring in a whole new line of vests that may cost more with benefit that we will less than likely ever experience, it's just not cost effective.
- fluxion, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13made from real dragon skin, so you KNOW it's good
- benhocking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Expense shouldn't be an issue when the families of these soldiers have offered to pay for this armor. In fact, many families already have paid for this armor and the soldiers are being told they can't use it anymore.
- bloqmon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Its all about croneyism.
- davidv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Even if its not given out to the average soldier, which I believe it will eventually be, there are special forces units where I could definately see this being cost effective.
- jguerry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"...but what if they shot you in the head Harry?"
- Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6their body armor is amazing. go to their page and they have videos of their vests being shot almost 200 times with an AK-47, MP5 and various other guns........with ZERO pentrations of the vest. i would wear that into combat anyday.
- BionicBeefpile, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7It's sad, but that was exactly what I thought when I saw the headline.
Oblivion > crack - zeebo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Halliburton doesn't have to bid. They're simply given contracts outright.
- allthewhile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually, bringing the troops home would cost money. Not to belittle your point, though.
- joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"The biggest problem with military procurement is that the contract goes to the lowest bidder."
You think Haliburton was the LOWEST bidder!? - DogHumpsMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I was reading an article in the paper the other day that said Pinnacle won't ship the Dragon Skin armor to the Army for testing. If I remember correctly, the Army wants the vests two weeks prior to the test date, and Pinnacle wants them brought the day of the test and tested right out of the packaging. Both sides claim the other is being unreasonable on the issue.
- sleze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6They are reluctant to move to the dragonskin because they have existing contracts. The Generals would lose their kickbacks and post service jobs if they kept switching the best product. It also makes them look bad for endorsing a product that is not the best. I'm not saying it is right but this is how it is with the Army.
Go rent Pentagon Wars for a VERY insightful look into how the army approves of things. - Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4his comment makes perfect sense. the army and marines both sent out memos (read "orders") saying that soldiers/marines are no longer authorized to wear body armor that isnt issued to them....meaning the Interceptor or old school flak vest.
- davidv, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Found something to back myself up with
http://science.howstuffworks.com/ffw3.htm
Third paragraph explains some magnetic stuff I was referring to. - CBau, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The DoD came out with a directive that they are not allowed to wear it. Even those who purchased it on their own are out of luck. The DoD also came out with a directive that they would pay military member back for purchased armor just a few weeks before telling us we could no longer wear it because we were complaining about the current stuff.
- Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5soooo, you want to put a bionic arm on an armless mannequin??
- Jeebugorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4exactly armando! that's exactly what i was saying! i know that even though there is no penetration there is still a transferance (sp?) of energy from the armor to the chest. but blunt trauma is generally better than an open chest wound. (i'd rather get hit with a baseball bat than stabbed with a knife) on top of the stopping protection the dragon skin offers, its also more flexible than a 6 pound ceramic/kevlar plate that covers your entire chest. the dragon skin offers more better "moveability" (i know that isnt a word), meaning its easier to move around it. thus...why i said.....i would wear that vest into combat any day.
- datastorageguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Can someone explain what this means?
"female rifle defeating capabilities" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Dragon armour on Ultima Online is okay... looks cool, but not the best protection...
- llbbl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You know that Dragon Skin is armor is 5x ($5000) the price of Interceptor armor ($1100).
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002086.html
If we equiped all of our soliders in Iraq with Dragon Skin it would cost $750,000,000, which I guess isn't so bad but considering we shouldn't be there in the first place and we already wasted $400 billion on this "war", than I don't think any added expense can be justified. At what point, after spending 1 Trillion dollars, are we going to realize that rebuilding Iraq is a bad idea, declare victory and bring everyone home for god sake. - fohf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Fine, you don't think the gear we give you is good enough? You are no longer allowed to wear anything unless we specifically issue it to you."
They not only said that, but they said if they die while wearing the dragon armor then they would forfeit all benefits for their family. So they are left with the choice to wear inferior armor and possibly die or wear something that might save them, but screw their family over if something bad happens. - knightcrawler75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3People often do not look at the big picture. A couple of mill to save a few lives which could be spent at FEMA for example which would save many more. The government has to wisely use the resources they have so cost benefit is a factor.
- gcpeart, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Not to sound cynical, but perhaps the cost of outfitting the entire force with this stuff doesn't significantly out weight the calculated cost of soldiers lives. Since we don't have exact performance data here, its hard to peg down how many soldier deaths could be avoided by outfitting them with the enhanced gear, but unless it is substantial I'm sure the number crunchers figure the (bad press + recruitment cost+ training cost) < cost of all new body armour.
If they are better, I'm sure they will eventually be phased into use in the military, but certainly not in an "over night replace everything we have" kind of way. - JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Yeah, and they have the Ark of the Covenant in a wood box in some giant warehouse somewhere... What a waste.
- benjamincanfly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Maybe these guys - http://www.digg.com/science/University_Of_Utah_To_Help_Build_Bionic_Arm - can help this guy: http://www.defensereview.com/stories/pinnaclearmor/Pinnacle%20Armor%20Dragon%20Skin%20Test_1.jpg
- Hubris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Expensive as the armor is, I'm inclined to think that even the couple months of training given the lowest grunts represents a greater investment than the equipment they use - not considering the human cost.
- gcpeart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hmmm I get the rant, but it seems to have an off conclusion. I thought you were going to say we should stop issuing armour requirements by committee/media
- gamekid, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5The best and truest comment I have seen on Digg.
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