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33 Comments
- resplence, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13I don't really get what's so important on CSS frameworks. People say it's faster. Perhaps to lay out the general structure, yes, But that's never the hard part. What is really time consuming; the land where bugs are born and things collapse and come crashing down;are the details. And you can't simply plan for that ahead of time.
Consider this page, for example. If I understood correctly, a framework could only help in giving you a perfectly structured page as soon as you're done writing the HTML. But what about the name tags, on the comments? Or the top pane, with the digg button and story title and details? What about the little overlay showing that your friends dugg it. There's no framework for that, as there could never be. And that's exactly where problems arise.
They're not even semantic. Once the laying out is done, you have to change all the classes names to make them meaningful (i.e. class="span 14-column last" to class="content").
CSS frameworks have their utility, there's no denying that, but it's not like they're the salvation of CSS or anything. - lifenstein, on 05/30/2009, -1/+11I've been using a default starting code for XHTML for years now; handling CSS like it might help - have to give it a try.
- ataylor32, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9May I ask what you prefer? Tables?
- positron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Tables have a specific purpose: marking up tabular data. Tables are NOT for layouts.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7CSS overcomplicated? It would take quite a simple mind to come to that conclusion.
- zachshmack, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Wow! I'm able to re-use code?!
- fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -8/+13CSS is not rocket science it is just plain old logic-less presentation rules. Frameworks for CSS are overkill and bloat, nothing more. Please don't perpetuate this endless cycle of retardation by digging crap like this.
- Dested, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Please people, move along, nothing to see here. Just a troll.
- sillywampa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4having multiple css files may simplify your development process, but it will slow down your site. Browsers have a max # of connections they can make to any given domain at once. In firefox you can modify this in the configs, in IE I think it's set at 2. That means IE will only load 2 css files at a time. This can slow down page loads and all those hits to your server can increase load.
At my job, we had a project where different people were working on different parts. When we moved all the css into one file as opposed to several, we saw an increase in page load times and decrease in server load.
I'm a big proponent of making things modular, but unfortunately, it's not always the best approach. - resplence, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Just the fact that you said that means you have no idea what you're talking about & totally blow.
- KerriDuf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Hmm, I should look into this more carefully. NIce digg.
- sam3, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3This is what I was thinking, too. But I guess some people need to be reminded of this. Nice article, anyway.
- LucasVB, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Buried for calling Times New Roman the best typeface ever. Helvetica for the win!
- HigherLogic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No everything in the article is a framework, there are some articles abour resets and master stylesheets, something I'm sure every designer does/uses.
- vemon388, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If you notice, the kids don't comment on these design/informational submissions. I guess it separates the men from the boys.
- kickarse, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Framework has helped me keep my sites Cross Browser friendly. I use YUI reset.
- blanktarget, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I think that having a basic framework is great and helps out with a lot of projects. These should be things you develop yourself though rather than steal because you'll spend more time trying to understand them than writing them. I've done this for a while, simply changing what needs to be changed but keeping a good base for new projects. Also, I don't agree with the multiple css files. I've used one for nearly every project ever.
- tito184, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1PWNED!
- NoNamesLeft, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Me too, been using it for about 6 months now and I swear by it. It doesn't mean there are never any bugs between browsers but it means I know with more certainty what is likely to be causing it. I also tend to remove what I don't need at the end of a project to lighten the code.
- spectre_25gt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Only if you don't know what you're doing. Also, layout tables don't provide any semantics. Bad for the new generation of web apps coming out.
- svenjick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1A lof of valid points, shame it's juste not summed-up properly at the end, where's the take-home message?
- Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"And besides, who the hell decided tables were *bad*. What's wrong with them?"
People who rely on the semantics of a tag to decide how it should be handled.
For instance, using tables for layout makes a page throughly annoying, to the point of being completely useless, for people who have to rely on screen readers. These readers tend to assume that tables contain tabular data, and that the contents should be read in that way... - svivian, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It appears the take home message is "Develop Your Own CSS Frameworks"
... so the article is near worthless. - sillywampa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1true, but your average user who just grabs a framework isn't going to think of that.
you could have a script that gets href'd in your link tag, and that script can gather all the css files. That saves browser page load, but doesn't solve server load. - CircleFusion, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So, couldn't people use the framework for development and then assemble all of the CSS files into one CSS file when it goes into production? (just like you did in your project)
What's wrong with that? It's really just a method of organization - CircleFusion, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1As I said above, you can use the multiple CSS files to simplify organization during development. When it goes into production, you assemble them into one CSS file.
- PRlME, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1yep hes correct digged up
- ngscheurich, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0This was touched upon elegantly, albeit not as lengthily, a few months ago at A List Apart:
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/frameworksforde ... - admiran, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0You did not understood irony of improving this old, poor font by CSS... Helvetica is the best, but only Mac machines have it installed by default :(
- lazyfisherman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I'd be psyched to see a YAML Builder-like drag-and-drop interface put into applications like Dreamweaver, Visual Studio to assist with the process of building complex layouts with CSS. It wouldn't take care of every problem but a GUI + CSS framework that helps keep you building standards-compliant and browser-compatible layouts would be helpful.
- takeshin, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Here is my simple solution for CSS grid: http://taat.pl/en/narzedzia/grid/
- EXreaction, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2What are you talking about?
CSS holds style information for HTML, it isn't even close to what a table is.
And besides, who the hell decided tables were *bad*. What's wrong with them? - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1*****.
Tables provide absolute stability to structure when firefox tries to process CSS too fast and mismanages the div layer's positioning.
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