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- kooze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Ok, I'm absolutely unapologetically biased, but I'm really looking forward to this. Culture and creativity and openness are the keys to solving complex problems. Why don't we use them more?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I don't really see the TTC in that light... for the most part, I think it's a good system. Obviously they need more cash, but the actual subway itself is extremely clean and runs fairly smooth, you usually don't have to wait very long for a train. It doesn't look old and run down and the cars are in good condition.
Although i'll agree, many of the workers could use a better attitude. The only place I feel very sorry for tourists is the Young/Bloor station, seeing as how it confuses some of the locals even. But i've found that anyone asking for help is usually not left on their own, someone will always offer advice and directions. I've had incidents where workers have let me in the subway or streetcar for free, I think it all depends on who you encounter. - glassx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Everytime someone bitches about the TTC i just think about how safe and clean it is compared to other cities... And not getting mugged > getting home 15 minutes sooner.
And just to anyone that doesn't know this: The TTC gets no tax money for standard operations, only grants to build/expand it's system. - factoryjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Dude, can't wait to see this happen.
- kooze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm not big on hate myself. Doesn't really do anything, so why bother? The TTC is an old institution, creaking under the weight of history and neglect. The essence of this event is citizen power that loves the TTC and wants to make it better. There is a lot that can be done to make the experience better, for sure! An aspiring world-class city deserves world-class transit.
- maoro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sampan: You have it the wrong way -- The TTC is one of the most UNDERfunded transit systems in the world. Close, just the opposite.
That and, Ottawa is one of the MOST expensive transit systems in NA. - quanta88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I too wish TransitCamp all the best. Admittedly there are many points of improvement the TTC (aka "Take The Car") could take, but this camp seems to be focused on the TTC's communications, especially their dreadful circa 1998 website at www.ttc.ca .
There is a glimmer of hope because the new commish seems to have an open door policy to bloggers and transit fans...time will tell if the traditionally insular TTC takes this much-needed feedback seriously. - SilverRocket, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I am so happy to be living in a city that has taken social networking to a real-life participatory level. It may be damn cold in winter, but Toronto rocks!
@glassx, yep, and to boot, it's the *only* metropolitan transit system in north america that gets zero funding from the state(provincial) or federal level - profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"their dreadful circa 1998 website at www.ttc.ca"
If you think of it as "vintage" it makes your eyes want to bleed less. - mabba18, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ottawa transit system has its strengths, and lots of weaknesses.
Outside of the downtown core, during off-peak hours, the system is horrible.
Downtown, and during peak hours, it is filled to capacity. - polymorphist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I use TTC regularly myself. I wouldn't call the 80% of the workers my best friends but I won't call them ***** either. The problem with TTC, as is in most government funded organizations, is the bureaucratic low efficiency and aggressive union leaders.
- BinaryFragger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I spent a weekend in Toronto last summer and the TTC was my only mode of transportation. Overall I was impressed with the service, and the only difficulty I encountered was at Bloor/Younge. I agree with CBTF about the confusion there; I was trying to get to Union Station but I ended up going North instead of South. Whoops!
I live in Ottawa, and I have mixed feelings about public transportation here.
PROS:
- dedicated transit roads (the Transitway), as Sampan mentioned
- most buses in the fleet are about 5 years old or less and are equipped with GPS
CONS:
- expensive ($3 per ride)
- the main routes (95, 96 and 97) are usually overcrowded, especially in the afternoon
- commuting from one end of the city to the other sometimes takes me 90 minutes - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Word. I used to have to take the 123 Shorncliff every day. That station stinks!
- procdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Expensive, but IMO its one of the nicest (even though it can be full sometimes). Get what you pay for, well and you have to pay for all those guys who hop in on the back doors :D
- sunchild, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Because there's an ***** in every group who wants to run the show for all the wrong reasons, and he usually has his way.
- mlostracco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sampan: Toronto has the most UNDERfunded transit system in North America; not the highest-funded. That's a good part of why the fares are so high.
- masterofreality, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2In my experiences with the TTC (several times each day) I've found about 80% of the workers are complete *****; some will even start fights with passengers. 10% are good guys but even that's optimistic, and about 10% are robots.
When they let you on for free because you don't know what you're doing its because they are either a good guy or a robot... or they want to spite the last confused person who they made pay with their watch because they didn't have any change. - chesh2000pro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's not really the goal of the Camp - we're focused more specifically on how to improve the website and information distribution channels - but everyone is welcome to participate in their own way and to run whatever sessions they'd like (as per the BarCamp norm). We want to keep it positive, so a session on how to be helpful to riders asking questions would be right in line with the goal.
- Rory1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1On the subject of service. I enjoy using the subway system. It's the streetcar service which is a mess. I've just moved and I've been using the King streetcar and it's just about pushed me into buying a car. Only once have I been on it in 3 months where I wasn't over packed and jammed into it (Even at 9pm). Anyone who knows the area and see's the trucks go by with pigs on it going to the slaughterhouse knows that the pigs even get a better ride than anyone taking that streetcar line.
- profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Chiming in on the Ottawa transit situation...
I really hope that Ottawa pays close attention to this conference and some of the principles that come up. Ottawa's Transitway system was great at one point in time, but the service just doesn't seem to cut it anymore. And there's a bit of a conundrum when it comes to light rail: which way to go first? East-West where it's needed now, or North-South which is how the city needs to grow? There's little doubt that Ottawa needs a rail system (I mean more than one line with five stops), but who knows when it's going to actually happen.
Pay attention to this gathering, Mayor Larry and company: a lot of the ideas that come out of this conference will be Toronto-specific, but many of the principles involved can probably apply to Ottawa. Can't undo the fact that Siemens is gonna make you pay millions for nothing, though.
Oh, and anyone who pays cash fare in Ottawa IMO is getting reamed. Buy tickets, they're available practically everywhere.
With apologies to anyone not from Ottawa who has no idea what the hell I'm talking about. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'll be there!
Keep up the good work David Crow! TorCamp is awesome! - iQuinn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Toronto rocks, TTC rocks, but it could all be better--hence the need for this event!
- BinaryFragger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with profOblivion about light rail in Ottawa. Go to Rideau Centre at 5PM on a weekday and try finding a bus that still has seats available. Even with a 95 going by every couple of minutes, they'res still not enough room. Buses simply can't handle the volume of passengers. And I pity anyone that has to go from Kanata to Orleans by bus. You could drive to Montreal in about the same amount of time it would take.
The stupid part is, we were this close to finally getting a light rail system. Now the project is dead and we're waiting for the massive lawsuit from Siemens.
We need to get the buses out of the downtown core. Hopefully the politicians will make the right choices (I'm not holding my breath, though). - Dissonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That hasn't been my experience at all. Most people who work at the subway stations are perfectly nice. Now I'll admit, some of the GO bus operators are a little wretched.
- heuer007, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I approve, as I use barcamp all the time
justin mitchell - iQuinn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is going to be huge... the website already seems to be dying.
- fac3less, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's the union that does that. Not the TTC.
Kill off the unions and the issue is resolved.
(Same applies to the garbage union that goes on strike every few years - kill 'em all) - laterallateral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ok. I did recognize that your approach to reaserch is good.
Good but nothing to write home about. From Wikipedia:
"It consists of sessions proposed and scheduled each day by attendees, mostly on-site, typically using white boards or paper taped to the wall. While loosely structured, there are rules. All attendees are encouraged to present or facilitate a session. Everyone is also asked to share information and experiences of the event, both live and after the fact, via public web channels..."
So you're basically holding a web promoted "town hearing" to find design solutions to your problem.
As I said, NICE! Very forward thinking and a very good employ of the tools offered to you by democracy and technology but nothing revolutionary. Unless of course a kid figuring out it can use the net to do research for a book report is.
Of course now, this has nothing to do with my innitial statement. What I was getting at I guess, was that it's sad to see a city so desperately trying to promote itself that it'll propagate what comes down to being bland news about a bland problem with a marginally clever solution. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't you guys remember when the subway was $1 or less? Why did it get so expensive so fast in Toronto?
Union! Why support these idiots? They push a pedal, the thing goes.. Some bus drivers are making $70k+ a year! Should a bus driver be paid more than our teachers?
I no longer think the TTC is a public service. They're not here to serve the public at all. And why are people here sticking up for them, even after they BRING THE CITY TO ITS KNEES every time they want more money (most of which goes to drivers) via STRIKE! - fac3less, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How was the route to don mills the biggest waste?
The city is growing north -- not just east and west you know!
There's a massive number of developments up north as well. - laterallateral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sweet LORD this is lame! I keep running across this story all over the place
I first saw it off the Toronto-centric Accordionguy weblog where I found it was somewhat relevant given the first half of this sentence. Now it seems it's been submitted to just about every blog in existance. I mean, come on now... Kudos on the Ad-Hoc thing, that's real progressive and all but PLEASE, I can't see how this would interest anybody outside of that specific geographic location. This is just banal crap any major city has to deal with at numerous points in it's evolution. So what's the hype about really? Does Toronto want a ***** medal for finally having to deal with real big city issues? - musters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In that respect (lack of government funding), the TTC is doing very well. I hope Adam G's new initiative to sell of subway land will help produce some much needed subway lines (e.g. Eglinton Ave).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1 Money could probably solve alot of issues the TTC has. But I have to admit the service is alright, but not world class. The TTC isnt getting properly funded by anyone and yet they dont do anything. They are basically resorting to the fares and advertisement money for maintanance and the odd times the province gives us money for new buses.
That subway route to Don Mills was biggest waste ever. They should have concentrated the money to fixing up the RT service with a replacement first. :( - warpjam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What's special about this story and the reason why its being picked up everywhere (not submitted BTW) is due to the fact that ordinary citizen's using the barcamp framework are getting a big old complacent corporation/commission to actually listen and be willing to participate and accept input from such an event. Do yourself a favor go to a barcamp event drink the kool-aid and feel the love, you'll see that it is something special no matter what challenge this framework is put up against to solve.
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Job Resume - http://www.sristysaviation.com/resume.html - pdinnen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sorry to hear you think this is lame laterallateral. Personally I think it's pretty cool to see ideas and methods for getting s**t done that we take for granted online into the offline world. Seems like bloggers Doctorow, Steffen and about 262 Diggers think this has some broader relevance too, but they may be wrong and you right, we'll see.
- kooze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wasn't going to comment, but I'm compelled. Here's the nature of the innovation, and why it's receiving worldwide attention:
The Problem: A system that is stuck in a double-bind of fiscal restraints and user experience problems. A vibrant community of transit fans that have been mashing up maps, designing user-generated content around transit, obsessed with it. But they lived in two separate worlds, not working on the same project of city-building.
The Solution: Open Space methods together with the well-developed BarCamp community in Toronto, embracing the many other creative communities in the city. Accessing a rich pool of talent to solve difficult problems with social media, design, culture and creative self-expression. Leaving the design artifacts documented for the transit authority to use as they see fit, and allowing any company to use the material in possible future contract bids. Effectively the transit authority is receiving well over $100,000 in free consulting from talented professionals in many fields, as well as the advice and guidance of passionate and well-informed amateurs and fans.
Completely self-organized from within the community in 2 weeks on a budget of $2700. This ain't your father's town hall.
And this isn't worth talking about? Come on...this is innovating a whole new way of working between communities, organizations and city governments. - kooze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0TorCamp is awesome. Community is the Framework(cm).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I'm not a frequent user of TTC since I live just outside the city but I personally feel they have a money management issue since they are one of the most funded transit system in North America yet have one of the highest fares in North America. Hopefully the bar-hop thing will resolve some more economical concerns as well.
If anyone has been to Ottawa, they have a great transit system with dedicated lanes on highways/streets for their buses... perhaps Toronto can adopt something similar since it would cost less than building more subway lines. - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4God i hate the TTC (the transit service).
Every person you have to talk to is such an *****. They answer every honest question with disdain and contempt.
I feel bad for tourists that don't know how the system works and when they make a mistake they get yelled at. It gives our city a bad name imho.
Hopefully this BarCamp thing deals with some of these situations? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0An ad-hoc gathering of designers, transit geeks, bloggers, visual artists, tech geeks and cultural creators passionate about transit in Toronto and the TTC at the Gladstone Hotel.
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