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104 Comments
- crawf061, on 11/28/2007, -5/+102linkage to the demo: http://www.grc.com/menu2/invitro.htm
- neoneddy, on 11/28/2007, -6/+53this is nice, but I prefer suckerfish menus because it uses clean xhtml, not this conditional table crap, I guess pick your poison, suckerfish JS, or this and all these goofy IF statements. I like cleaner code myself.
- BigBrother87, on 11/28/2007, -5/+41I love you GRC. While you're there, check out grc.com/passwords for Steve's Even More Perfect Paper Passwords. And SpinRite. And Shields Up. And the podcast with Leo Laporte. And the million other free and unique utilities. I guess I'm a bit of a fanboy.
- neoneddy, on 11/28/2007, -2/+31I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not.
- homesqua, on 11/28/2007, -1/+29damn that's a long css file for a simple drop down
- headzoo, on 11/28/2007, -2/+25I thought the purpose was to create drop down menus, that will work on any browser, and without JavaScript. So how does this defeat the purpose?
- dawgma, on 11/28/2007, -0/+15People are still full of themselves?
- thorbergdt, on 11/28/2007, -16/+30Yeah super......only 275+ lines of code for a simple drop down box... kinda defeats the purpose.
- tehnico, on 11/28/2007, -0/+13Don't care for the wrapping around the submenus. Use the csshover.htc script to add li:hover functionality to IE5+6 and you can eliminate all that conditional table crap, and half the css. Perfectly legit to do so and keeps the script much more inline with proper coding techniques.
But neat submenu. Definitely better then that piece of crap from before. - skankyBacon, on 11/28/2007, -1/+13That's the price you pay for full browser compatibility.
- Tserk, on 11/28/2007, -3/+14Suckerfish seems more grokable to me.
- testerburner, on 11/28/2007, -4/+14No Javascript solution - this is a good basis for customizing your own drop down menu, and if you listen to Security Now, Steve actually mentions that members of his newsgroup actually tested and helped developed the drop down solution.
Thumbs up for Steve Gibson, Spinrite and GRC! - Kershoc, on 11/28/2007, -1/+10And don't forget the best thing about Suckerfish (and its kids). The JS is only needed for IE6 so you can serve that up in Conditional Comments and not even bother the rest of the browsers with it.
- j4200, on 11/28/2007, -3/+12If I wanted to use Google to find everything I would. Sometimes I prefer to go to places where people have recommended what is good and it gets talked about. Take the antisocial approach to learning the tricks of the website building trade if you want. Bear in mind though, learning seems a hell of a lot easier if you have plenty of people to trade your tricks with.
- bhowell, on 11/28/2007, -2/+10Aye, and shouldn't we care more about the usability of the menus than their implementation? It's in CSS.. that's great, but it suffers from the same usability problems that the cascading menus of yore did... If your mouse strays one pixel outside of the menu, it disappears and you have to go back and reopen it. When you're opening a submenu, you have to follow a small "tunnel" (the text of the current selection) into the submenu.
Microsoft worked around these problems by using delays. Linux and Apple make it so you can move the mouse directly to a submenu item without following the "tunnel." If you try to do either of those with CSS, you're more insane than the person who created pure CSS menus :p
CSS is very useful, but be careful of evangelizing a technology -- it's not healthy. - greven, on 11/28/2007, -2/+10Hells ya. Never considered being a gibson fanboy, but I would classify myself as such. Security now 4 life
- OscaronV1, on 11/28/2007, -0/+8I, and the 2 dozen hard drives I've fixed that were non operable before running SpinRite on them, respectfully disagree with you.
- rasterbator, on 11/28/2007, -6/+14Digg the hell out of this thing. Steve Gibson and the Security Now podcast team deserve the extra hits on their site!
- andrew522, on 11/28/2007, -1/+9you appealed to my laziness by saving me the effort of copying and pasting that link from the description.
- Azdak, on 11/28/2007, -0/+8nice...i'll be using this.
does anybody else find it funny that any time "Steve Gibson" or GRC" is even whispered, the whole thing turns into a Spinrite infomercial?
no hate, just noticing :D - inactive, on 11/28/2007, -0/+7only newbs like amazon.
- PhrosTT, on 11/28/2007, -5/+11i'll 15 lines of javascript instead. k thx.
- extratired, on 11/28/2007, -0/+6did you even read that article? it wasn't cross browser.
- MirandaJanell, on 11/29/2007, -0/+6Why would SpinRite need device drivers? Steve Gibson writes everything at a low level. Standard interfaces make the current state of SpinRite possible. As far as it's implementation in DOS is concerned, big whoop, because it uses DOS it's bad?
Raw sockets in windows xp. Yeah they were disabled. You try and create a raw socket using the microsoft api in an updated version of windows xp. Good luck to you. Steve Gibson will never "retract his garbage" because some group at Microsoft clearly agrees with his garbage.
Honestly I think you're the one with blinders on. I don't blindly follow everything that Steve says, but the guy makes great points, and I'm more apt to listen to him than some Gibson hater who can't get the facts straight. - pseudojd, on 11/28/2007, -0/+6You, clearly are not a Steve Gibson fanboy.
- nihlton, on 11/28/2007, -0/+5another vote for suckerfish here
with each primary menu in its own UL outside a primary UL, they are each semantically unrelated. not a huge deal, but bad practice.
also, ill take conditional javascript and clean markup over conditional table hacks anyday. In the end, this is a hack. impressive, but a hack. - tehnico, on 11/28/2007, -0/+5http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html
- Kular, on 11/29/2007, -1/+5For those who don't listen to Security now or take the time to look it up. The whole point of this is that there is NO java script in it. Steve is very anti-scripting as most browser hacks today exploit scripting errors. This is just his proof of concept that you can do great menu's without using JavaScript... Personally I agree its too much effort and could care less if Joe idiot gets infected because of bad JavaScript on a website or ad.
- OscaronV1, on 11/28/2007, -0/+4I, and the 2 dozen hard drives I've fixed that were non operable before running SpinRite on them, respectfully disagree with you.
Dupe comment on a dupe comment. - normalize, on 11/29/2007, -1/+5Well, it still doesn't work in lynx...
- lscritch, on 11/28/2007, -0/+4I'm not a Gibson hater like some, but I have to wonder, if this thing is so great, why doesn't he use it on his own site?
Plus it depends on invalid CSS. - stutimandal, on 11/28/2007, -0/+4Dropdown menus are somewhat old now. Enlarge on Hover seems to be the latest favorite.
- Derrekito, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3So if we take out all the IE6 crap, then how long is it? ;)
- macoafi, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3er...but IE6 is el sucko too
- fredclown, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3It's on A List Apart's website. Google suckerfish. You'll find it. And if you REALLY need the link here it is.
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/ - doktorzee, on 11/28/2007, -2/+5And this was it: http://www.digg.com/design/Pure_CSS_Drop_Down_Menu
- xfitzyx, on 11/28/2007, -0/+3I find it much easier to navigate through 3 or 4 pages to get to what you're looking for.
- koick, on 11/29/2007, -1/+4Nevermind, I just looked at the page sourcecode and saw the hacked up html comments. Go ahead, bury me for being stupid.
- Enchante, on 11/28/2007, -0/+3and digg
- Kular, on 11/29/2007, -0/+3Yes good thing MS left Raw sockets in Windows too..... oh wait they took it out because it was so broken...
As for Spinerite I'm sure you've actually bought a copy and done a very thorough amount of testing on it so I will trust you that it doesn't work and not the hundreds of paying customers who say it does... - macoafi, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2CSS has better usability than JS. JS should never be relied upon. Still though, I wonder how they made li:hover work in IE6. IE6 doesn't recognize :hover on anything but links. You'd need to have it load a behavior (IE6 can use a loaded behavior for hover since it already understands hover, just needs to be taught that things other than links can do it)
- inactive, on 11/28/2007, -1/+3Websites attacking other websites? What?
- insub2, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Seriously?
You are sitting in front of a computer connected to the most extensive collection of information humans have ever known. Do you know how to use it?
Hint: Google is your friend. - Bamborzled, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2And Adobe.
- inactive, on 11/29/2007, -1/+3WTF is Suckerfish?
Great how everyone refers to it and nobody posts a link. - skankyBacon, on 11/28/2007, -0/+2"He made all of the technical terms in his manual for it up."
An excellent example of "WTF Grammar."
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archive ... - osbjmg, on 11/29/2007, -0/+2You don't have to use Javascript. I'm guessing the angle is to be more secure.
- skankyBacon, on 12/06/2007, -0/+1Yes, but stupid people spend money too, and it's just as green as smart people's money.
- bcarl314, on 11/29/2007, -0/+1I don't know, I've used so many drop downs now, it seems like there's always some hang up. It's Javascript, it's CSS, it's 50k, it 2 lines, bottom line is it seems like the best options are some of the more popular ones like http://www.udm4.com, suckerfish, oepncube, etc.
People will be trying to re-invent this wheel for years to come. - sarken, on 11/29/2007, -1/+2Steve Gibson always keeps things simple. That is why he is the best.
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