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A4 vs US Letter

betweenborders.com — Ever downloaded a document or received a file from a friend only to have it print out badly? Check out the in-depth comparison between A4 and US Letter. Amazing to see how similar the two are, yet how much they differ. Come on America, I think it's time to advance a little.

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  • ropers, on 10/26/2007, -8/+89Insightful, comprehensive and well written. Kudos to the author!
    • vortec, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Is it down already?
    • Munja, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1It seems that way
    • resplence, on 10/10/2007, -4/+41The reasoning behind the A-Series is beautiful, a perfect companion to the logic of the metric system. It's also closer to the Golden Ratio thus/and much more pleasant to the eye: http://duggmirror.com/design/A4_vs_US_Letter/40c324f85670534ae5ad2cfb199e9518_a4_usletter_side-by-side.gif

      Rest of the world: 1000000000 x 2.54 :US
      • Breepee, on 10/10/2007, -15/+5>> It's also closer to the Golden Ratio thus/and much more pleasant to the eye

        You're gonna have to explain that one...
        • pault107, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12The number 1.618, unique in that its value equals the ratio of its integer part to its fractional part.
          • psygnisfive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8It's also been found that rectangles with a short size : long size ration of 1:1.618 are considered more "rectangular" and more aesthetically pleasing than any other rectangle, making it the archetypal rectangle.
        • acceptab1euname, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5Maybe you should pay better attention in your math classes.
      • giskard88, on 10/10/2007, -3/+28actualy the big issue isn't the golden ratio (many have suggested that the golden ratio's suposed asthetics are a myth anyway), the ratio is the root of 2. therefore if you fold a sheet of a4 in half, you get a piece of paper with the same ratio of sides (the a5 standard) thereby meaning that all of the standard paper sizes can be made from one another with no waste
        • mutz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7ever cutted paper from an a0 to smaller sizes? (on a professional a0 polar cutting machine) then you will know that you need a 'clean corner' before you can use it in a printing press so you will have some waste. (a cutting knife has a clean side and a rough side) this is accounted into the big format stock you buy. It's called schoonsnijden in dutch or rogneren in french/dutch printers lingo.
        • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1So you can make any A series paper size from another? Oh yeah, just like the US system of A is half of B is half of C is half of D is half of E. Just because it's a different size doesn't mean it isn't well designed.
    • sstidman, on 10/10/2007, -7/+26Folks, the author has conveniently left out that this wonderful folding property that permits metric formats to fit neatly into one another ALSO APPLIES TO US FORMATS. Here, look carefully at his chart:

      Sheet name Width (˝) Length (˝) Aspect Ratio
      A (Letter) 8.5 11.0 1.294
      B (Tabloid) 11.0 17.0 1.545
      C 17.0 22.0 1.294
      D 22.0 34.0 1.545
      E 34.0 44.0 1.294

      So if you take an E size paper (34" x 44"), and divide it along the long edge, you get a sheet that is 22" wide and 34" long. In other words, you get a D size paper. Divide again along the long edge, you get a 17" by 22" paper...aka a C size paper. The ratios are not maintained, but so what? Smaller papers can be produced from larger papers without waste, regardless of whether you use the US or metric paper sizes. That's all that matters. Does it really matter that much that the aspect ratio is maintained?

      However, the metric A4 sheet, the most commonly used sheet outside the US, is 62,370 mm squared. The US A size, the most commonly used sheet within the US, is 60,322 mm squared. So the US size uses less paper, therefore less trees, less waste, etc.
      • KSUdesigner, on 10/10/2007, -4/+14You've also conveniently left out legal size paper, which is 8.5 x 14. That doesn't work with any of those ratios.
        • sstidman, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13You're right. Good point. So let's start by getting rid of legal paper. Of course, the quickest way to do that would be to get rid of all the lawyers ;-)

          By the way, how did my comment get to the top? Others clearly responded to ropers before me. Am I the only one who sees myself as the first replier to ropers?
          • screensnot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Yep, that's Digg's comment system for you. I see your comment in the right place (after resplence).

            My own comments often show up in the wrong spot for me as well.
        • alf86, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Legal size doesn't count. It was created to confuse and disorient with its uncommon proportions. Those crazy lawyers.
      • bytheby, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7The author hasn't left anything out. Yes it matters that the aspect ratio isn't maintained. **That's the whole point of using paper with a 1:sqrt(2) ratio, to maintain aspect ratio regardless of size, while at the same being able to derive all other sizes from the largest size.** You're printing a document and you want to use a smaller or larger sheet of paper, but since the aspect ratio isn't the same it's squished/cropped horizontally/vertically... now what? With A-paper, no change to the layout necessary, circles don't become ellipses, the letter i doesn't disappear from your favourite words, etc.
        • sstidman, on 10/10/2007, -6/+3It's extremely rare that most folks need to print a document that was written with one size of paper in mind on another size sheet. Be honest...how often do you personally need to do that? Pretty much never, right? The maintenance of the aspect ratio sounds convenient, but in reality it is rarely beneficial. Is it beneficial enough to justify a greater than 3% waste of paper?
          • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Happened all the time back when I worked at a printing shop, actually...
          • thomashauk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6It's extremely common to blow a page up to twice the size for the visually impaired or to reduce it down by half to save paper...

            So yes it is.
          • screensnot, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I often want to print a drawing that was intended for 11x17", on an 8.5x11" sheet.
        • jezmck, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6photocopying (xerox) down a size is common practice.
    • jeriqo, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4"However, the metric A4 sheet, the most commonly used sheet outside the US, is 62,370 mm squared. The US A size, the most commonly used sheet within the US, is 60,322 mm squared. So the US size uses less paper, therefore less trees, less waste, etc."

      What a non-sense...
      Smaller paper use less tree
      Larger paper gives more space?
      Thanks.
      • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Following that logic, then we should print everything on business card size. Advances in vision care allow humans to read smaller pieces of paper, so we should use that for the benefit of the planet. (/sarcasm)
    • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12No, no, no.... you can't give "Kudos" to the author!! The Kudo is a stubborn American standard. The proper quantity of praise to give to the author would be the standard European unit of "Props".
      • oneoverzero, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Unfortunately, kudos is greek for neverending glory, therefore it is more scholarly.
  • MasterThief117, on 10/10/2007, -64/+5Wow, it seems like this is the only time where US measurements are more efficient.
    • skoops, on 10/10/2007, -5/+30did ya read the article at all?
      • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -27/+6I can't answer for MasterThief117, but I started to read it. Then I realized I had wasted 5 minutes of my life (and had two hundred paragraphs to go) reading an in-depth technical analysis of ***** paper measurements and decided I had better things to do, like comb my armpit hair.
      • chris86, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Yet instead you decided to use your incredibly important time to complain about said article
        • michaelinnotts, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1And then he went to tweak his Linux terminal after snorting and adjusting his taped-up eyeglasses.
  • chingy1788, on 10/26/2007, -25/+307Convert to metric damn it
    a thousand times more simpler
    1Km = 1000m
    1m = 1000mm = 100cm
    you and your inches, foots, yards and what not...
    12 inches = 1 foot, 3 feet = 1 yard
    5 thousand something feet = 1 mile...
    • TGMD, on 10/10/2007, -120/+19ahh... 5280 feet in a mile...

      And why should we switch simply because you're too lazy to learn some conversions.
      • ianweir, on 10/10/2007, -7/+83haha.. Oh please tell me you're joking. The US is one of the last countries on earth to still use the imperial system. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Metric_system.png)
        You really need to get with the times. Welcome to 1960.
        • sjl127, on 10/10/2007, -18/+5Then move.
        • TGMD, on 10/10/2007, -13/+5I was obviously being sarcastic... but that's beside the point. If the USA wants to use the imperial system that's their choice. Just because one system is easier than the other doesn't mean it's necessarily superior.
          • Apache933, on 10/10/2007, -7/+0if the us didn't use the imperial system, how would the line "do you know why they don't have quarter-pounders in europe" even exist ?? I mean, it's almos the essence of pulp fiction !!
            on the topic, very interesting to know why there are different paper sizes.

            happy digging.
          • rarson, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3There is a total of maybe one instance where I actually prefer metric: wrenches. 10mm, 12mm, 14mm makes a whole lot more sense than 5/16, 3/8, 7/16. But I just have no concept of how long a meter is, the wider range of Fahrenheit versus Celsius gives me a more accurate reading of temperature, and I couldn't possibly see an aspect of my daily life that would require me to weigh something lighter than fractions of an ounce.

            Metric only "makes sense" because it's easier to understand from the outset. When you've used imperial units your entire life, they tend to make more sense.
          • DaSuHouSe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2@rarson I think anyone who's ever taken a science class in the US knows enough about the metric system to switch over. In chemistry you measure in grams and Celsius/Kelvins, and in physics you measure in meters and meters/second, and since most people can measure in yards (especially from football) I don't think it's very hard to switch to meters. Ultimately my point is will it be that hard to teach the next generation both systems?
          • glypht, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Just because one system is easier than the other doesn't mean it's necessarily superior."

            Mathematics being universal, surely the only measurable quality of a system is its ease of use? Or are there licensing issues of which I am unaware?
          • srg13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"f the us didn't use the imperial system, how would the line "do you know why they don't have quarter-pounders in europe" even exist ??"

            We have quarter pounders in Australia, and we use the metric system...
        • nonnald, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_on_the_left_or_right
          tell them to get with the times
          • rcomegys, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I tell ya, I drive on the left here in Japan, and it doesn't bother me at all. And it'd be a real bitch to change now, even more so than the US changing to metric.
          • rarson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I lived on Guam for 3 years a while back, and borrowed my buddy's car while he was out to sea and I was in port. He had a right hand drive Japanese car, even though Guam drives on the right. So being on the wrong side of the car (which they actually do in some parts of the world) was a weird experience... I got used to it pretty quickly, but there's a nasty blind spot when you're sitting all the way on the right, and you're making a left turn.
          • richardiscool, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Driving on the left is better. It means the driver faces more consequences of their actions than the passenger.
      • mohamedmansour, on 10/10/2007, -13/+22Lazy? Pleaaaase US love to ruin everything in the world. Why not just follow the WORLD standard then making a complete useless standard.
      • greatcaffeine, on 10/10/2007, -5/+40Why should we switch? Well... because the metric system is better. I don't think there's much more that can be said.
        • Phyltre, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If you think human culture as a whole switches to things because they are "better", think again. We regularly value the barrier to entry as making any eventual benefits "not worth it."
      • mrhoakie, on 10/10/2007, -15/+9Hey now, we are switching from English to Spanish, isn't that a start?
        • alf86, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1No, it's a step backward. If anything, we should be switching to Chinese.
    • greatcaffeine, on 10/26/2007, -26/+51Should we also find a "more simpler" language?
      • sakuraz, on 10/26/2007, -12/+8"Git 'ere"
        "Mutha Fukas"
        "Skeet skeet"

        Nah, I think we're fine.
      • PixelVision, on 10/26/2007, -4/+17I hear you, I speak COBOL. It's much simpler. STOP RUN.
        • miles32, on 10/26/2007, -2/+18STOP
          Hammertime
          • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4STOP
            Collaborate...Listen
          • Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2STOP
            Stealing XKCD story ideas.
          • arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2@ramble
            I'm not stealing, I'm giving props. xkcd is one of the best webcomics out there.
        • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Stop......Continue!

          (10 points to whomever names the reference!)
          • seinman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"Improper Dancing" by Electric Six, of course.

            Yay, ten points.
        • oneoverzero, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Surely you jest. INTERCAL is much more simple!

          PLEASE GIVE UP
      • MarkoStamcar, on 10/10/2007, -6/+14English is already pretty simple compared to other languages, so there is no need to simplify it further :)
        • jamyz, on 10/26/2007, -3/+7yes it is one of the most effective forms of communication, which is why it is the world language - everyone should be made to learn it as their first language and then perhaps we might consider changing to metric
          • brucemanly, on 10/10/2007, -6/+6English isn't the most effective or easiest. In fact it's considered a very hard language learn by most standards, because of the amount of words we use that sound the same and have different meanings or spellings. Why do you think we spend so much time being pedantic with you're and your? IMO its the world language as some of the big powers speak it (US) and of old (UK) 19Th century.
          • MrSunshine, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Let's give Esperanto a chance :/
        • kufu91, on 10/26/2007, -0/+6my sarcasm meter asploded
        • WorldLeader, on 10/26/2007, -1/+4We should all learn Latin and revive the kick-ass language of old. Amabo te!
      • alf86, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I think he just needs to take the time he saved learning metric and and apply that to brushing up on his English.
      • nazsco, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Yes.
      • nephilimx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1"Should we also find a "more simpler" language?"

        Color? Colour?
        America already has....
        • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2the -or termination is taken from the original latin. -our is a variation taken from french that is used in the British form of english.
        • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4this makes sense. we know what big fans the brits are of their french "neighbours"
      • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4No. Language is used for expression and conveyance of ideas. To convey complex ideas, you're going to need a language that reflects that. Numbers aren't used for expression or ideas, and the mathematics behind them can make it confusing enough; therefore you should use a number system that's easy as possible to reduce mathematical errors.
      • joshman5k, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2No, Just stop putting z's everywhere and spell it mum not mom.
    • theblooms, on 10/10/2007, -38/+8"Convert to metric damn it"

      No.

      • FoxOrian, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9I willingly use the metric system over here in Boston. My friends get confused when I use it around them, so I just tell them to use an online converter [or their unit converter widget] so they can understand what I'm talking about.

        I even prefer to tell temperature in Celsius -- 100C = boiling point of water, 0C = freezing point. Imperial units have to die out, I'm sure NASA has learned that by now.
        • theblooms, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11"so I just tell them to use an online converter"

          If you REALLY tell them that, that says two thing about you: #1 you are a pompous ass, and #2, you lie about having friends, because NO ONE likes to hang around a pompous ass.

        • nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5If you use the metric system, you are letting the terrorists win.
        • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3and how often do your friends end up converting to former friends?
      • swordedge, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3you already are converting. By a 2 quart soda bottle, fix a modern car without a metric tool set for two examples. PS, you will have a very hard time buying two quart bottles.
        • SkylarEC, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I buy half gallons of things all the time.
        • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's interesting that you make the comparison. The A standard of paper actually SEEMS like a very American thing to do... it's just like pints, quarts, gallons.
      • theblooms, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7OK, I can tell that many people who dugg me down have NO engineering experience whatsoever. I am a senior lab tech (chemist) at one of the premier independent waterproofing consulting firms in the world. The entire construction industry, and by extension, civil engineering, revolves around SAE measurements. It would cost HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS for the US to convert to the metric system and retrain tens of thousands of contractors, sub-contractors and construction workers to adopt the new system. And that's not counting the other industries that feed into the construction industry like logging, fireproofing and such.

        Changing to the metric system, while it may seem simple in theory, is EXTREMELY COMPLEX. For example, you wouldn't be able to go to the Home Depot and buy something so simple as a 2x4 anymore. Or a 1/2" cordless drill. NOTHING about the construction industry would be the same. And what would be the real net gain? Nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing but a huge, gigantic waste of money for no reason whatsoever.
        • Astaro, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3If you're an engineer, why aren't all of your tools, instruments and materials metric already?
          I live in a metric country, Ive been a builder, and I've studied engineering.
          We still go to the hardware store and buy 2x4's we shouldn't, they are properly 50x100's, but we call them 2x4's anyway.
          4x8 sheeting is 1200x2400, and who really cares what size the chuck of a cordless drill is? you can fit any metric or imperial bit into anyway.

        • DaSuHouSe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"And what would be the real net gain?"

          Maybe we could prevent the next Mars Lander from crashing due to conversion mistakes. (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/ in case you never heard about it)
      • abid786, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1EVERY other country in the world has done it. Why can the US not do the same?
    • regeya, on 10/26/2007, -1/+43Yes, and in print, it's just as fun.

      There are APPROXIMATELY 6 picas in an inch, and there are APPROXIMATELY 12 points in a pica. To make matters worse, some software handles points in the Adobe way (there are EXACTLY 72 points in an inch) and some handle it correctly (there are 72.27 points in an inch) which makes it an even bigger mess.

      If we were to just switch to metric, there would be one unit of measurement. I don't know why people here in America are so determined it'd be confusing. English measurements would die out pretty quick, I think. I mean, how many people use rods and furloughs anymore? Yards and miles would die a quick and painless death.
      • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -5/+0I'm pretty sure for construction using the English system is better because you can easily divide it up into equal parts.
        • oneoverzero, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Division is impossible with the metric system.
        • synik, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Why do you think that? For bigger numbers just use long division or a calculator.

          Imperial makes no sense to me. There is no base number.
      • Phyltre, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Well, unfortunately, for an entire culture to just switch measurement systems is EXTREMELY confusing. They're an integral part of life, and people like what they're familiar with. It's not what's best, it's what people prefer.
    • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -13/+4Next time we take advice on national standards we'll be sure to consult a semi-literate Digg poster, mmmkay?
    • Torsteinator, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3agree chingy
    • dienaked, on 10/10/2007, -14/+9For smaller measurements and construction, sometimes the English system is easier.
      Adding 1/4, 1/8, and 1/64Th's inch's together is easier using the English system, instead of trying to do 6.35, 3.175, and .398765 millimeters together to get the same answer, plus using a good engineering ruler, I can actually find a 25/64 mark, I haven't seen a ruler that will let me mark at 9.923765 millimeters.


      • acc355, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12Hmm, it's pretty easy to find the 10 mm mark on my ruler... can't seem to find the 0.39370079 inch mark though.
      • resplence, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5"I haven't seen a ruler that will let me mark at 9.923765 millimeters."

        Even if there were such a ruler you wouldn't see that anyway. Not without a microscope.
      • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2I don't know why people are digging you down. It's true for construction purposes the English system works better.
        • mrhoakie, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2It is because it has become a habit on digg to auto down-digg , if you express anything that could be construed as supporting the U.S. or way of life, independent of topic.
        • JoWiGo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4No, it's because half thought through idea's tend to have flaws. I myself work in construction and the only reason we have 3/32 of an inch and whatnot for measuring is because that is how it has always been done. The system works both ways: if we were on metric and i wanted to go to imperial then i would say something like 'metric is easier because there is no easy fraction for 10mm'.
    • dienaked, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4doubled up, oops.
    • darkbird, on 10/10/2007, -10/+13"1Km = 1000m"
      that is false.
      1km = 1000m
      the uppercase K is the symbol for Kelvin, and only the lowercase k means thousand
      • MalDON, on 10/10/2007, -0/+81 kelvin-meter?
      • myfanwy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3hey, don't digg darkbird down. i see this type of mistake all the time, it can cause no end of problems, especially when idiots confuse M (mega) with m (milli). yes, it happens.....
      • digitul, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2oh please. when someone says they have a 100mb game, everyone knows they mean meg, not milli
        • JoWiGo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, but what about when something is being described at 1mm. Sure common sense would tell you that it is probably actually 1 millimeter but what if the person was actually trying to express 1Mm, or a megameter (1000km).
    • wiifm69, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4The states are one of the few countries left to convert to metric, they are currently on par with Liberia, Burma, and Myanmar. The inch loving days are over!
      • nonnald, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Burma and Myanmar are the same place
    • protogenxl, on 10/26/2007, -1/+27My car gets fourty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it!
    • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Convert to first grade grammar!!!
    • Daiken, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I actually prefer the imperial system for measuring people's height and weight, otherwise yeah, metric all the way.
    • Pritchard, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Imperial SUCKS. Anyone else remember having to learn it in school? It was a pain in the ass, and it has no useful mathematical properties. If it wasn't for the USA having a large market, we wouldn't be able to afford to be such arrogant pricks. GR.
    • mapkinase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I vote for 1kM=1024 meters
  • themoose, on 10/10/2007, -18/+6Down already?
    http://www.duggmirror.com/
  • zybch, on 10/26/2007, -3/+58http://duggmirror.com/design/A4_vs_US_Letter

    Caught it (thank god)
    • Rileyper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Thank god someone knows how to link a mirror rather than saying www.duggmirror.com ONLY!!!!
      • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Use a browser that works correctly and you won't have these problems.
  • DinX, on 10/10/2007, -3/+60Damn Stonecutters.
    • sfly510, on 10/10/2007, -4/+31"Who keeps the metric system down? WE DOooo."
      • rcomegys, on 10/10/2007, -12/+1Yeah, we were all there for that. We don't need you to remind us.


        And the "we" should be elongated too, n00b.
  • Veni_Vidi_Vici, on 10/10/2007, -16/+5http://duggmirror.com/design/A4_vs_US_Letter/
  • sjl127, on 10/10/2007, -55/+11@MaIDON

    America needs to "advance a little?" Excuse me? With all the technology we started and developed and you're mad over a sheet of paper? That deserves a digging down and bury.
    • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1i agree with this, but sjl127, with all the advances in technology, you'd think you would know how to USE DIGG PROPERLY!!
    • DaSuHouSe, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Considering how Americans today are much less interested in science and technology, how a large portion of scientists and professionals are immigrants, and how American students are no longer on par with those of other countries, naming this as another example isn't too outrageous.
      • Tweekster, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1yeah we are not on par, we are far ahead
    • Pritchard, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0I just want to say, sjblahblah, that you're a ***** retard. Our measurement system here in the USA expands to more than just paper, *****. Did you not read the article? Not only is SI convenient, but it's also has many useful mathematical properties. To this day, millions (if not billions) have been spent supporting our stupid Imperial System.
  • kbandy, on 10/10/2007, -17/+2Wow, down after 42 diggs!

    http://duggmirror.com/design/A4_vs_US_Letter
  • cogitocogito, on 10/26/2007, -7/+132PC Load Letter? What the ***** does that mean?
    • sakuraz, on 10/10/2007, -15/+4they're out of letters P and C
    • iamafatguy, on 10/26/2007, -6/+23Well, literally:

      PC LOAD LETTER is an error message encountered when printing on older HP LaserJet printers such as the LaserJet II, III, and 4 series. The error is always displayed fully capitalized.

      The actual meaning of the message is very convoluted: "PC" is a two-character status code that stands for "Paper Cassette"[1], the tray that holds blank paper for the printer to use. These two-character codes are a legacy feature carried over from the first LaserJet printers, which could only use a two-character display for all printer status and error messages.

      "Load", in this context, is an instruction to refill. "Letter" is the standard paper size used in the United States and Canada. Thus, the error is instructing the user to refill the letter paper tray. A variant is PC LOAD LEGAL, meaning that the printer requires legal size paper be loaded.

      But I get your reference. ;-)
      • sctechguy, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11Did you get the reference? If you had gotten it, you wouldn't have typed out that long, drawn out response telling us what PC Load Letter means (we already know what it means!). No reference from Office Space should need to be explained.
        • Phyltre, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5No, we don't all know what it means. Some of us might have just learned something.
      • nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0Yeah, I'm going to, uh, have to ask you to come in on Saturday, mmkay?
  • gromnie, on 10/10/2007, -47/+9Ah yes. "Everything they do in Europe is SOOOO much better than you backward Americans."

    What a boring world it would be if everyone were exactly the same. But that's what politicians want, which is why we keep getting this attitude foisted on us. And of course, the sheeple follow along in lock-step and harass anyone who doesn't agree with their mantra, CONFORMITY IS FREEDOM.
    • Typhoon2009, on 10/10/2007, -5/+26What the ***** are you talking about? The world wouldn't be any more or less boring if we used metric. It'd be a whole lot simpler, yes, but not boring.
      • Pritchard, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It would also make mathematical sense. Get into physics work with Imperial, and you will want to blow your brains out.
    • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Standardization is a lot different from elimination of diversity.

      Ooh, wouldn't it be so interesting if every computer manufacturer used a different USB-like bus? Or different sized CDs? Different communications buses for hard drives, memory, etc? Man, that would be so cool! Not nearly as boring as it is now!
      • nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1USB 1.1 and 2.0 are both used.
        You have standard-size CDs and business CDs
        You have SATA and PATA (IDE) for Hard drives and optical drives (not to mention USB)
        Memory comes in DDR or DDR2 (DDR3 is starting to be produced and there are some older standards from older computers.
        • wanzedk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yes, but they are gradually being replaced with newer standards. The US Letters aren't better than A4, so why not stick with one type until we find something better, just as we do with hard drives etc?
        • wanzedk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yes, but they are gradually being replaced with newer standards. The US Letters aren't better than A4, so why not stick with one type until we find something better, just as we do with hard drives etc?
        • wanzedk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yes, but they are gradually being replaced with newer standards. The US Letters aren't better than A4, so why not stick with one type until we find something better, just as we do with hard drives etc?
      • MalDON, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1*cough* Sony
  • bluenash, on 10/10/2007, -19/+5HAMMER TIME!
  • awhiteflame, on 10/10/2007, -36/+14I've used letter and legal paper my whole life. No problems whatsoever. You can keep your A4. If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
    • mnstot, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Well the Imperial measurement system stole my daughter's virginity, so I sure as hell want it to be gone.
  • SuperJason, on 10/26/2007, -3/+25They're different sizes.
  • wing05, on 10/26/2007, -5/+17"Which raises the question, why the difference at all?"

    Off topic. But finally. Writing that satisfies my grammar-nazi alter ego that doesn't use "begs the question".

    As well, it seems letter is slightly shorter and fatter while A4 is taller and leaner.

    What's the problem with simply going with the rest of the world and using A4? Why not make 8.5x11/letter just the North American name for A4?

    We already do this to generically refer to a piece of lumber. Since a 2x4 is actually 1 1/2 × 3 1/2.

    Let's standardize somewhat and move on. Or is this a conspiracy of paper producers to not want to spend the extra pulp on that 2 square centimeters or so?
    • inmatarian, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Actually, most printers and software are already equipped for A4 printing. You can go to your local store and purchase A4 right now and begin using it. This is one of those standards that is in place because of lethargy, and that if the majority of the people began using A4, then the retailers and manufacturers would jump to get ahead of the trend.
    • nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1But a 2x4 was at one point a 2x4 before it was treated.
      • wing05, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2So, Letter/8.5x11 could go into history as having been actually measuring 8.5"x11" sheet of paper until the rest of the world adopted metric.

        In which case the names Letter and 8.5x11 would actually be A4.
    • myfanwy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22 x 4 (50 x 100, have you not been paying attention?) is the undressed, i.e. rough size. it only becomes the smaller size (generally 45 x 90mm actually), after it's gone through the circular saw and been squared off. but yes, standardisation good. inches/mm bad. and metric is so much easier to work with
    • myfanwy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3digg, your comment system sucks. double post............
  • crapmatic, on 10/26/2007, -5/+57And with A4 paper, paper covers rock AND covers scissors.
  • MightyTonto, on 10/26/2007, -18/+28When you spend as much as America on arms - its laughable that they find it too expensive to change documents and roadsigns to metric.
    • awhiteflame, on 10/26/2007, -3/+24Or maybe it's that americans have no idea what 100 km is, and don't care to find out. :P
      • DesuKN, on 10/10/2007, -7/+3Is typing "100 kilometers in miles" into Google REALLY that hard?
      • psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4The majority of cars have the speedometer in both KPH and MPH...
      • Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Echoing the point above, all cars in the EU have both units on, do American cars have that too?
    • octophobic, on 10/10/2007, -10/+11Switching to metric now would be like signaling defeat to the terrorists. We'll just wait for this whole metric thing to die down - or better yet we'll create a new system that is base 12!
      • kodek, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2A hexadecimal system would be hilarious:

        |-------|
        | 2D |
        |-------|
    • Goldbricker, on 10/26/2007, -0/+11I don't think the expense has much to do with it.
    • OrangeTide, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7What would be the point of switching?
  • terinjokes, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9hrm... I live in the USA, but I have my computer set to print on A4 paper (and applications set as needed), but I actually use the normal US Letter size when printing... never really had any problems, i just have margins a little bit wide...
    • MalDON, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The problem comes when you don't have the printer or application set up to print on A4.
  • Roundbadge, on 10/26/2007, -15/+35... and you 'mericans are also the only people in the world that calls it 'Soccer' - I demand conformity, dammit!
    • zybch, on 10/26/2007, -5/+27Nah, we Aussies also call it that. Mainly to piss off the British I think...
    • Philoushka, on 10/10/2007, -7/+4us Canucks do as well unfortunately.
      • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9They hate the brits as well? Cool.
      • Samtherocker, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2Why is hating 'the brits' cool? Stereotypes of nations and the people who believe those stereotypes are pathetic.
        • nigh7dagger, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1If your username told me anything about your location or looks I would stereotype you just to piss you off.
        • razorgator, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Oh shut up, you Brits have trying to make hating 'the Americans' cool ever since we left your stupid country.
          Stop whining.
        • razorgator, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Oh shut up, you Brits have trying to make hating 'the Americans' cool ever since we left your stupid country.
          Stop whining.
        • razorgator, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Oh shut up, you Brits have trying to make hating 'the Americans' cool ever since we left your stupid country.
          Stop whining.
    • goblindegook, on 10/26/2007, -2/+36The US aren't alone. In fact, "soccer" originated in England as a shorter name to differenciate Association Football (soccer) from Rugby Football (rugger).
      • MrSunshine, on 10/26/2007, -1/+8I just call it Football and Rugby ._.
    • Icecream, on 10/26/2007, -2/+21In Australia it is called soccer, but we have our own football league, an entirely different sport. Calling both sports "football" would be confusing, I always guessed Americans don't call Soccer football for the same reason.
    • DeFex, on 10/26/2007, -3/+32Well americans have another game called "FOOTball" where they carry the ball with their HANDSs and throw it most of the time.
      • vuke69, on 10/10/2007, -7/+7Well, we could just change the name of American Football to Rugby for Pussies, and that would free up the Football name for a sport that actually involves feet.
      • Kopiok, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Actually, before a certain point, the ball was never thrown and every play was a rush. There's a rather famous college football game in which Notra Dame use a passing play against Perdue (iirc), and it was considered a trick play because no one ever threw the ball.
        • frostw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2What you talkin' 'bout Willis!?
        • cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1First, it's P-U-RDUE, we aren't making chickens. Second, I don't know where you got that story from but I've never heard it and I'm from 10 minutes south of Purdue, attended Purdue and have never heard anything of it. Also, if it was true, there is no way ND fans would let it fade away. They'd bring it up on every pass play.
    • zydeco, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8While we're at it, what's with the extra O in colour and neighbour? Let's get that taken care of as well!
      • MrSunshine, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19Colur? Neighbur?
      • Cayfox, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6English words ending -our (colour, labour) were taken from French, after the Norman Conquest of Britain (11th Century). The US spellings (color, labor) were reforms introduced by Webster in the 19th Century. Presumably, he wanted to prune away silent letters, and reconcile the French words with their Latin roots.
        • onewingedangel9, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0THANK YOU! Somebody knows that Color is from the latin roots and Colour is English taking from the French.
      • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3the extra O ?!?
      • northernmunky, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It is a bit strange when they do that 'color' for example phonetically is col'OR' you need the 'UR' to give it the 'urrr' sound.
        I mean they dont say COLOURADO do they???
      • zydeco, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2MY BAD, I meant U. I'll put in my application for Miss Teen USA tonight.
    • enalios, on 10/26/2007, -1/+11America is a young country- we're in our 'angst' phase right now, we want to do things our way! Don't try and make us conform to YOUR rules and what YOU decide is right for US (that's U.S., bitch)!
      • danpat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Angry 3 year old tantrum. Nothing to see here.
    • mapkinase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That is what we Muslim Americans are really not going to.
  • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+55I don't mind that A4 and Letter are slightly different sizes (but it'd be nice if the US caught up with the rest of the world), what grinds my gears is that whenever I install a printer (or scanner) driver the default paper size is set to US Letter, even though I'm in Australia and my windows regional settings and so forth are also set to Oz as well.
    Why the hell can't printer makers learn to read the regional settings and change the printer defaults to reflect this??

    Also, why can't they make their damn cartridges cheaper!!!
    • sakuraz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8cheaper cartridge = expensive printers

      in order for the companies to stay profitable.

      Agreed on the "US letter" option tho.
    • jsebrech, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Agreed. Also, it would be nice if after installing a word processor or photo editing tool I didn't each time have to go reset it to metric because it couldn't auto-detect that it wasn't running on a US locale. Honestly, they probably sell more copies to metric users, so why even bother defaulting to inches?
    • sctechguy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4...and get off my lawn!
    • psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Dugg for "grinds my gears"
    • ray73864, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I pay $AUD 15.00 per tank for my epson printer, and canon charge $AUD 20.00 for their ink tanks. Get with the times, cartridges with the heads attached are the ones that are expensive, the head only needs changing every couple of years.
    • srg13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"what grinds my gears is that whenever I install a printer (or scanner) driver the default paper size is set to US Letter, even though I'm in Australia and my windows regional settings and so forth are also set to Oz as well."

      That's weird... I've only ever had applications default to A4..
  • chrisc262, on 10/10/2007, -23/+7WOW - thats a huge article about 2 paper sizes ( and super boring )
    just look for an option to "fit to" a certain paper size - what is the big deal?
    • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10If you'd read the 'super boring' article you'd know why!
      • chrisc262, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1no way - i got through about 2 paragraphs before i felt like throwing up
        i can't get that excited about paper
    • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Not everything can just be fitted to a size. Documents may have very precise formatting that requires the size of paper they were designed on. Rare, case, sure, but it happens.
  • ambiescent, on 10/26/2007, -9/+32For those of you who think there's not a lot of benefit from switching to a standard paper size, refer to the 3rd image (A0 divided down to A8). This means that paper companies can produce A0 papers, and simply cut them into A1, A2.. A8 /without any/ waste.

    Just imagine how much US letter paper is produced everyday, and how much paper paper mills would have to trim (and throw) away because large rolls have to be cut to many arbitrary sizes.
    • wing05, on 10/26/2007, -2/+20I thought cuttings simply get recycled and put back into the pulp vat.

      The only savings you'd see then is the energy to re-roll, dry and cut what's already been made.
    • chrisc262, on 10/26/2007, -4/+9what about the billions of sheets of letter size paper that already exist -
      lets really think about how difficult it is to change units -
      PS - we tried it in the 60s - it didn't work
      • jsebrech, on 10/26/2007, -2/+2"It didn't work" is BS. The US government doesn't want it to work, or they'd mandate metric for all government-related work and the US would go entirely metric in a few short years. There are plenty of countries that have done this. Most of the EU even replaced their national coin with the euro in a few short years.
  • mlagana, on 10/26/2007, -10/+24it's not just europe, it's the rest of the world. Doesn't it make more sense to use International Standard instead of American Standard???
    • Yeyui, on 10/26/2007, -5/+9No. Not anymore that it makes sense for Germans to print their letters on 21.59 X 27.94 cm paper.
    • mrhoakie, on 10/10/2007, -13/+4All because everyone else is jumping off the cliff, does it make it right thing to do :) ?
      • PixelVision, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5That's the worst ***** analogy I've heard all day. You might want to print out this comment because it's something you really need to learn. Unlike jumping off a cliff, changing the size of paper is not going to kill you, and in some people's opinion it is a good idea. ***** nutbar.
        • mrhoakie, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2LOL, Jeez lighten up Rambo. They aren't kidding when some people on DIGG are too thick to understand sarcasm. Please note the smiley hinting at lightheartedness.
    • wilburx, on 10/26/2007, -11/+10No, I live in America, so the American Standard is fine by me.
  • alchemista, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12I printed out the article to a PDF....
  • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -46/+6How about all you other weak-ass countries convert to becoming actual countries? Instead of relying on the US for military protection why don't you grow a pair and defend yourselves? Goddamn Europeans are either cooking up Holocausts or else they're acting like a pack of testosterone-free shemales. Canada? What the ***** is a "Canada"? A few arces of snow. Australia? Another joke country ("throw my shrimp in yer, Barbie!"). The US has a 30% higher standard of living than you morons, AND we pollute less per capita, AND we give more to Africa per capita.

    A4 paper? Bite my F-22 Raptor exhaust outlet, ya whiny bitches.
    • snurfle, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11Because, obviously, differences in paper sizes between countries is really just another example of...
      Wait... What the ***** is wrong with you, Smoov?
      Did you seriously expect that to contribute to this thread at all?
      And please don't expect any Americans here to support you anyway; You are only furthering the image of the U.S.A. as a country of lazy, mis-informed, ignorant sloths who like to go around taking control of global issues in an attempt to control the world.
      And furthermore, don't forget in the midst of your mudslinging, these words from our history:
      Apache. Sioux. Crow. Comanche. Osage. Pawnee. Chippewa.

      You embarrass this country.
      Yet you still are allowed to spew forth any kind of diarrhea from your lips that you wish, because that is one of the freedoms we stand upon.

      Now.

      Shut the ***** up.
      • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -15/+0You are only furthering the image of America as being half-fileld with whiny sluts like you who don't deserve to live here.
      • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -14/+1"Apache. Sioux. Crow. Comanche. Osage. Pawnee. Chippewa"
        I fought alongside men of native ancestry. Unlike pampered bitches like you they tend to be proud Americans willing to sacrifice for their country. I never heard one of them disparage their country the way effete cowards like you do on this site daily.

        ***** you, coward.
    • moodycj, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index Australia 3rd Canada 6th US 8th Where did you pull 30% from?
      • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -7/+0It comes from actual, hard numbers (GDP per capita) not some soft left-wing "index" which is specifically designed to make the US look bad.

        Canadians migrate to the US at a rate 10 times the reverse. Why do you think that is, Buffy?
        • wellyuk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Err.. GDP (Gross domestic product) is for measuring economy NOT quality of life, *****. And you're a fair way down the list (9th in fact) for GDP behind Luxembourg, Norway, Monaco,Qatar, Iceland, Ireland, Switzerland and Denmark. You're behind Ireland for ***** sake! They're a nation of pissheads!

          Oh, source: International Monetary Fund, World Economic Outlook Database, April 2007
      • frostw, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I think he frequents www.pullstatisticsoutofmyass.com for all his information.
    • flaterates, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8OK, OK, just relax. Most of the things these other countries do are just as stupid or stupider than what we do. The fact is, that stupid is as stupid does. There is no reason to be stupid on purpose. We should have converted to metrics a long time ago, one world standard is the way to go. Not doing so makes us stupid. Or maybe smarter, I'm not sure. Just DO NOT mock the rest of the world, as they are far on their way to crushing us.
      • Smoov, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0"they are far on their way to crushing us"

        What planet are you from again? Crushing us? Is the school system REALLY that bad these days that you actually believe that?
        • bgmowen, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4With 193 other countries other than the US im pretty sure we could crush the US
    • Tippis, on 10/16/2007, -1/+4Impressive how you managed to get every fact wrong in that post ;D
    • MrSunshine, on 10/16/2007, -1/+4Fascist.
  • snurfle, on 10/26/2007, -3/+28Dugg simply for the article's correct use of 'typeface' rather than 'font'.
    • ideapower, on 10/26/2007, -0/+5Thank you!! That always drives me nuts.
  • theillest1, on 10/10/2007, -12/+11Must be a VERY slow news day...
  • octophobic, on 10/26/2007, -4/+41I just want A4 to become standard so I can make better paper airplanes.
    • aussiedood, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Don't you mean "aeroplanes"? ;)
      • ideapower, on 10/16/2007, -2/+10no. airplanes fly in the air. and they take off and land at airports. they don't fly through the aer and land at aeropourtes.
        • srg13, on 10/16/2007, -0/+1Well, your 'airplanes' wouldn't go far without aerodynamics, or aerospace engineers... or do you want to change their spelling too?
    • outsid3rNo17, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If there is one thing A4 is not suitable for, it is paper airplanes. They end up looking either too wide or too long.
    • skinrock, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I could never seem to fold them the same way the books described. Always too short or too long.
  • bsmeteronhigh, on 10/26/2007, -3/+35Spain's railroads are a different gauge than the rest of the world to prevent invading armies from having too easy a time. Likewise, the printers in the United States only use "Letter" size paper to avoid the introduction of contrary thought by invading countries. It is only by keeping our paper "our size" that we are able to keep our speech free! Everybody knows this!
    • Supermunch, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!
    • Magicmasta, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1You tried, but you failed :(

      All modern printers can accept both formats, even printers that are sold in Europe can print on US paper sizes :p
      • bsmeteronhigh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Astounding that they failed to see the humor and absurdity in my post.
    • bmnrocks, on 10/26/2007, -0/+7Don't worry, the United States of America doesn't usually use railroads to invade countries. :-)
      • bsmeteronhigh, on 10/26/2007, -1/+7That's just what we want Canada and Mexico to keep thinking! Venezuela is just a short AMTRAK ride away!
        • nonnald, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0AMTRAK ride to Venezuela? That sounds 144 times more painful than switching to the metric system
    • mapkinase, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Russia has the same thing. Really helped us a lot in 1941
  • unruled, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1@pixla,

    ROFL... my exact same reaction.
  • gildude, on 10/16/2007, -14/+5Simple answer: US Letter makes better paper airplanes.
  • MioTheGreat, on 10/16/2007, -4/+7All industry over here uses the ANSI (A,B,C,D,E) paper sizes. You'll never get them to change. We know those numbers by heart. The whole 1/sqrt(2) thing really cool and pretty useful, but these are easy to remember numbers.

    And I can assure you, that despite: "For example, the current version of the ANSI standard noted above — ANSI/ASME Y14.1m-1995 — recognises the older paper sizes for legacy purposes only, setting A-series paper as the preferred US standard for technical drawings."

    I've never seen an Ax drawing in the US. Ever.
    • AnonymousCow, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1A fair number of CAD drawings at my previous job were plotted (slowly, old plotter) on A0. The funny thing is, for quick jobs of less complicated drawings they used ledger paper (11"x17"). D'oh.
  • adoggz, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3just because something is different doesn't make it better.
  • spilk, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5geez. I'm an American and I was taught metric and the imperial system from an early age. What's the big deal? Any reasonably educated person in America understands the metric system, even if they don't use it on a daily basis. I'm not enough of a printing snob to really care about the size of my paper, which is only marginally different from A4. I'll just scale an A4 page to fit on letter if I really have to and get on with my life.
    • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1This drives me nuts... Americans don't use the "IMPERIAL" system - it's the STANDARD system. There's a difference!!!!
  • colinm, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Internet Explorer regularly cuts off the right-hand side when printing on A4 paper - maybe it was only tested with the wider US Letter paper?
    • SimonGray, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16Naw, it's just because IE is a buggy piece of *****.
      • stalefries, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I've noticed that IE always tries to print with a margin of 0. That may be the cause?
    • PhireN, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Netscape Navagator 4.0 was worse. It would cut off about 2cm (about an inch for you USAens) and then print it on a separate page. It was common to end up with one page that had the information you wanted, except for the last 2 or 3 letters of each line, plus 3 pages of junk (one containing the copyright information, one with thoes missing 3 letters, and one with the last letter of the copyright info)
    • macoafi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It does that on US Letter too.
  • p51d007, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I get this one all the time. I've been in the copier, printer, fax business for 26 years. One of the more common problems
    is when someone receives a fax from overseas to the USA. Sometimes the "smart" copier/printer/fax does not translate
    the document from A4 to Letter. It will stop and ask the receiver to place A4 in a tray and try again. I just usually take
    one of the paper trays they DON'T use, and tell the machine to make the A4 tray the same length & width of letter
    paper and to shrink the document 5%. When an A4 document is received, it will pull from the A4 tray the letter paper
    I put in there, and will shrink the document 5% so the entire document is received, and the machine won't jam, because I told it the length & width of "A4" paper in the millimeter size.
    Pain in the ass, but since the USA is stubborn on switching to the A0 to A8 size paper, you have to do what you can
    to "fix the customer".
    • cybrjoe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6That's kinda of like when people compose reply's in external editors or decide to use line feeds whenever they decide it's necessary. Then when people with smaller browser windows try to read it, they have to read each line slightly different making it difficult to follow.
  • fish3r, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2we don't conform, and we certainly don't get in line.
  • Matthews255, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11They could do what us in the UK have done, moved pretty much everything to metric, apart from everything to do with the road network. Speeds and distances still in Miles and MPH.

    If we can do it, I'm sure you yanks can manage it too. Just give it some effort, i know you lot arnt big on change. My parents still do things in Feet and inches, heck my grandparents still moan about the old monetary system!
    • wellyuk, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5And everything to do with the size of a pint of beer. Europe can keep their ***** half litre beers. I want a pint! and if I don't want a pint, I want a ***** yard!
    • Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2And pints, feet for heights (usually heights of bridges).
      We really ought to go all metric.
    • Cayfox, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You know what IS better than a pint of beer, though? A full litre! I found quite a few places that served those in the Czech Republic.
    • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I guess this is for the same reason that the Brits still drive on the "wrong" side of the road? They're open to change, but don't mess with their bloody automobiles!
      • synik, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Actually, the British drive on the "right" side of the road. America only drive on the other side to be different. Japan, Australia, and many other countries drive on the left.
  • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -15/+6"come on america, time to advance a little?" Oh no, our paper isn't perfectly mathematical and A4 is better since it can be made by folding a sheet of A0 in perfect geometry. Who the ***** cares? It's letter paper. deal with it!

    We're not telling the rest of the world to start using our weights and measures. If you don't like it, don't do business with us. That's the free market, something we didn't have under European control.

    Why is the rest of the world so puzzled at our weights and measures? The whole point of the US' existence is to get away from where we came from!

    Maybe our foreign policy sucks, and our president sucks, but that doesn't mean our paper sucks. Besides that, A4 is bigger, so you could say that US Letter is more environmentally advanced. (and we can get rid of our president and foreign policy, something that would take a lot longer than 4-8 years if we hadn't stopped tyrants like Adolf Hitler. you'd have a lot more to complain about than his paper)
    • hiro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5"Why is the rest of the world so puzzled at our weights and measures? The whole point of the US' existence is to get away from where we came from!"

      Right. You do realise that "your" pounds, ounces, miles etc are British and that we still use them here? If you really wanted to get away from being our colony (the weights and measures you are referring to are "Imperial") then you would use the metric system, like your republican (with a small 'c') revolutionary compatriots, the French
      • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1that's very true, and a good point, but besides on the road and at the pub, the UK is pretty much totally metric. The imperial system was a lot older at the time that the US was formed, so I can't imagine there was a superior alternative at the time to use just to spite the British.

        The real point is that the US seems to get a lot of pressure to conform to the rest of the world, but we really do have a stubborn individualistic attitude that doesn't tend to accept what others say. We don't even trust our government enough to keep it in office for more than 2/4/6 years (good thing).

        i didn't mention it in my comment, but when you're a leading technology company that's responsible for a lot of the innovations that connect the modern world (like the printers that print A4 paper, or the transistors that make them possible), that tends to reinforce the idea that we really don't have to listen to other people in terms of weights and measures.

        Oh well. I believe that anyone who has to deal with the differences in A4 and US Letter paper has gotten used to the small changes they have to make by now.
    • bmnrocks, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1"if we hadn't stopped tyrants like Adolf Hitler"

      Wait, I though that the war was on it's way to being over before the USA decided to 'step in'
      • nonnald, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0it was on its way to being over and if they hadn't have stepped in, you'd be speaking German
  • wael, on 10/10/2007, -6/+7I agree, it would be really great if the world used standard sizes of paper. The A-series has many benefits. But, having used both letter and A4, I can safely say that letter just looks betters.
    Digg me down, just my 2 cents!
    • bmnrocks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Ok, I will digg you down, just because you asked so nicely.
  • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -16/+7how many millions of dollars would it cost to convert to A4 paper with no real benefit other than to math geeks?

    on that subject, how many billions of dollars would it cost to convert to metrics, just to make europeans happy? all of our scientists uses metrics already, why does the general public need to use them?
    • jadrian, on 10/16/2007, -5/+10General public and scientists these days seem to be having some problems comunicating in your country.
      Every little help would be a good thing ;)
      • enalios, on 10/16/2007, -1/+1Way to tell other people what they're countries are like. Are you from the land of baby-eating dingos? Or that place where everyone has terrible teeth and life stops at tea time?
        • srg13, on 10/16/2007, -0/+1Well, actually, the baby eating dingo thing is not all that inaccurate - there have been a few deaths
    • Jugalator, on 10/16/2007, -1/+3Huh? Don't you understand the point of a standard? It has notthing to do with geeks or making Europeans "happy".

      Not following standards cost more money for both the US and the rest of the world, and also reduces efficiency when exchanging information. We *are* living in a globalized society, and not in the middle ages where every country used their own methods. From this it comes that not following standards raise barriers in information exchange in all sorts of way. Communication problems when not all using metrics, needing to finance special "letter" factories, etc.
      • macoafi, on 10/16/2007, -0/+2Anyone who has had to deal with broken templates when switching from an old version of Word to a new one (or vice versa) or has tried to use CSS without hacks (* html body div#stuff{}) and get good results in all browsers will agree with you. Lack of standards, or the unwillingness of some parties to follow standards (quite often, Microsoft) is a major source of headaches.
      • macoafi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Anyone who has had to deal with broken templates when switching from an old version of Word to a new one (or vice versa) or has tried to use CSS without hacks (* html body div#stuff{}) and get good results in all browsers will agree with you. Lack of standards, or the unwillingness of some parties to follow standards (quite often, Microsoft) is a major source of headaches.
    • p51d007, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1the only problem with doing all the converting hearkens back to the Mars explorer thingy....each side thought the other did the conversions and they burned it up in the atmosphere of Mars because someone thought they were suppose to be in FEET/INCHES, and they were suppose to be in METERS/KILOMETERS.....or the other way around.......oooopppppssss.
  • ksoon, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13Articles like this exist because we seem to have some sort of obligation to continually bastardize international standards.
  • ucccft, on 10/10/2007, -10/+0Come on you Brits, get with it. All of you are 200 years behind the rest of the world, You copy EVERYTHING from everyone, then say you thought of it. Come on, get out of this living in moldy old England and get in the 21st century. Start to modernize.
    • Electric_Sheep, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3We use Metric...
    • hiro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"Come on you Brits, get with it. All of you are 200 years behind the rest of the world, You copy EVERYTHING from everyone, then say you thought of it. Come on, get out of this living in moldy old England and get in the 21st century. Start to modernize."

      LOL, you do realise that most Digg users are too thick to realise you're being sarcastic don't you?
  • mutz, on 10/10/2007, -6/+4the din-Ax (replace x by your preffered number) is in no way a treesaver, you still need to cleancut your edges because when you cut a belt of paper you will get a clean side and a rough side. the paper knife doesn't cut both sides smooth...
    • p51d007, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If you want to win a bar bet..........tell someone that there is a top & bottom to a sheet of copy paper.
      I know a LOT of people don't have a clue......but it is usually easy to tell when you look closely at the sheet. :)
    • thomashauk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0If I was really that fussed I'd just by the right size paper in the first place. We're talking about the hack and slash of every day in the office/school here.
  • bat-21, on 10/26/2007, -1/+18I have an even better idea. Don't use paper. I hate it when someone comes up to me, says "Look at this email I got." and hands me a piece of paper. I usually reply "What happened? Is your monitor broken?".
    • outsid3rNo17, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3But the boss hates it when someone comes up to him and says "Come to my office and look at an e-mail I got". He usually replies "Print it and bring it to me."
      • fredrihl, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3Why don't you just forward the e-mail to him?
    • goyira, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Try it when you don't have just an e-mail but several academic papers to read :-)
  • HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -16/+6Buried yet ANOTHER article that tries to tell me that somehow changing something trivial (like our paper size) is an advance just because everyone else does it.
  • GiggleStick, on 10/10/2007, -19/+5What size is European toilet paper? Wait, you do use toilet paper, right?
  • peterinjapan, on 10/26/2007, -1/+11I am an American who's lived in Japan for 15 years, and I'm happy as a clam using A4, A3 (2xA4), A2 (2xA3) and so on. I also prefer to do page layouts in milimeters instead of 1/32ths of an inch, but it's not going to change anytime soon...
    • FastLearner, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Picas and points are used in professional page layout in the US for a reason. You never need to use 32nds of an inch. And 72 (points in an inch, standardized from the old, real measurement) divides beautifully by 2, 3, 4, 6, and 12.
      • Jugalator, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1True, but where he lives, he wouldn't even need to bother with picas or points either, as little as inches. ;)
      • thomashauk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Shame its more like 72.27 which doesn't split as well...
  • notloste, on 10/26/2007, -10/+19Although I'm a fan of the metric system, I'm afraid the article is in error. The letter size is superior to A4. Since it is a little fatter, an airplane folded out of it glides farther. All else is irrelevant.
    • aliguana, on 10/26/2007, -1/+13yeah, but the longer form-factor of A4 means your aeroplanes go FASTER. A4 is the Ferrari of origami-aviation.
      • ideapower, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2if you're going to use the word "aeroplane", i think you should use the proper british spelling in the entire sentence. i.e.: "fourme-factour" and "ourigaemi"
      • aliguana, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I would, except using that spelling of a Japanese word is silly.
  • ThatsNotPudding, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Why not change to A4? Two words: Filing Cabinets. Can you even imagine how many filing cabinets there are on the North (and South?) American continent that have been built around the 8 1/2 x 11 form factor? Yes, you can recycle metal and even wood, but at what carbon cost? And what about the countless forests worth of existing letter sized documents? Just scan them in you say? And to further your metric cause, I assume you would be willing to pitch in and do that for free - plus pay for the electricity and new HDDs while you're at it? Yes, while in college, I despised working with Imperial units (poundals? wtf?), but desires of universal standards have real and sometimes unjustifiable costs.
    • LNx2, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Then how did Australia manage to mount the costs or Ireland or Japan?
    • danpat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1since when were filing cabinets a snug fit?
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