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74 Comments
- ElBeh, on 04/25/2008, -4/+57I'm not a site designer, but I'm digging this because I hate looking at ugly websites.
- Lyk4n, on 04/25/2008, -0/+31Every time one of you tards does this, I know it's a roll and I click and watch it anyway. Because I love Rick THAT much..
- Frozenfuryblade, on 04/25/2008, -0/+17And 1 bad example of web hosting...
- talonstriker, on 04/25/2008, -4/+15miror: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:http%3A%2F%2F ...
also may I suggest: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/257 ... - liberskym, on 07/24/2008, -3/+14http://duggmirror.com/
- RevoFM, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12Holy crap, they actually got it?
- aywwts4, on 04/26/2008, -1/+11I like to think I have a pretty good sarcasm detector, good range, high accuracy, with a great high gain antenna and preamp...
Are you being ***** serious? - killfish, on 04/25/2008, -2/+10well they are poorly written javascript/css plugins. not css techniques.
Download jquery, learn it, use it, and read up on some solid css tutorials. In a couple of months you will be able to write your own annoying plugin. - ChunkyLover36, on 04/26/2008, -1/+8I still see references to IE 5 on the Mac and all the hoops web designers have to jump through just to play nice with it. Doesn't seem worth the pain for remaining three users that still use it.
- ahawks, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6#32. Make sure your server can handle the load before getting it on digg
- Asianwaste, on 04/26/2008, -0/+5STFU GTFO
- Adys, on 04/26/2008, -2/+7Divs are easier than tables :/
- depape0, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6thanks for the info 1999!
- boobyman, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6Instead of coding, why not putting a drop shadow in photoshop?
- jtbandes, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4TABLES ARE FOR TABULAR DATA
RRAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGHHHH - RevoFM, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Never gonna run aRHA0nd and desert you
- inactive, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4You'd never look at humanity the same way again.
- Lyk4n, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4Oh my god! can I die now please?!
- dyranios2, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5wait what
- aristideau, on 04/26/2008, -0/+3HUH? your should double check the link farkis, the one you posted is a link to a Rick Astley video clip
- moresheth, on 04/26/2008, -0/+3You're being buried because you're speaking an unpopular opinion, and I disagree with what you are saying, but I dugg you up because you presented your argument well.
I've been doing CSS-only layouts for close to 4 years now (and table-only layouts for 6 years before that), and I have all sorts of battlescars from the long fight with browser support, non-standard hacks, and random, unexplainable bugs. I'm confident to say that I've mastered my CSS skills and there isn't much I haven't seen before. I'm only mentioning this because it may lend credence to my opinion on the subject.
Everything you said about using tables for layouts is correct. It can be very quick and easy to make columns and sidebars, and format information with a specific precision. When combined with regular CSS techniques, nearly every classical layout (like in print) is possible. Depending on how you write the structure, it can even be less markup.
However, the ease of coding is only a small part of why not using tables for layouts is a good thing. There are quite a few other reasons not to do so.
One of the oldest arguments against it is maintainability. It's easier to update one external file than hunt down code changes in your template files. This applies in most cases, but since a lot of sites are template-driven dynamic sites, changing out a bit of markup is just as easy as adjusting a stylesheet. But if there are static pages anywhere in your site, it is huge mistake not to be using an external CSS file for positioning and styling. You'd just be asking for trouble.
Flexibility is the next biggest reason for using CSS-based layouts. The beauty of external CSS is that you can switch out stylesheets at any time to present the information in a completely different way. This may sound entirely useless, since very few sites would want to completely change their layouts rapidly, but the real value in it comes from media type switching. You can have a stylesheet for the screen, which is how most people will see it, and then one for handhelds, like PDAs, and then one for print, which has useless links and needless information removed.
Third reason is DOM scripting, as in Javascript. There's not much to say other than if you plan on having a lot of Ajax, you better learn to accept CSS layouts. I don't think this point's up for debate.
Fourth reason is interaction with third-parties, whether through mashups, widgets, or cobranded pages. I know the benefit of this as I've been working on a cobranded page for the last 2 weeks. Using a CSS-based layouts has allowed me complete control over less-than-perfect third party code.
Fifth reason is semantics, which I guess every argument about the web boils down to ("It's all semantics"). You mentioned that Jon Nagle believes table layouts are good. Well I can probably find you entire papers written by Tim Berners-Lee (you know, the guy that invented the World Wide Web and is the bossman for the W3C) which contradict Nagle's position. I don't have references included, but I know I've read lots of stuff he's written or said and there's no doubt about it. Semantics are (finally) becoming more and more relevant and not using semantic markup is just plain silly for a new website in 2008.
I know there were one or two other reasons that I've thought of or used when talking with clients or coworkers, but I can't recall them now. I've written too much as it is, anyway. - aristideau, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2OHH, I get it, make out you are linking to something, then trick the person into watching a Rick Astely video clip
It will never catch on - phpchris, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2It uses a PNG image.
- YourSexyMama, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3I appreciate it, but who is still using a FF2 and below?
- Pherdnut, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Why use an image when all you're loading is a few lines of text?
- inactive, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3I'm glad this made the front page, it hasn't been on the front page of Digg for a few months, I was starting to lose faith in Digg's repetition.
- visionaryIX, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3Holy crap. He is serious.
Minor problem. Tables aren't designed for layouts. - Daniel591992, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2That's a lot of diggs.
- macplenty, on 04/25/2008, -5/+6Are there any CSS techniques to keep their server up?
- inactive, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1It's nice to see a rickroll devolve into mayhem.
- monalisaa, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1er ... the bar chart dosn't work for me. The 80% and 100% both go right up to the end, and 40% looks like more than half to me ....
- sleekdraft, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1great stuff! =)
- Ender0910, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Some neat stuff in there but a lot of repetition (we get it, you can change styles on hover). Plus, some are sacrificing ease of developement and use just to be "pure css!"... like the percentage bar graphs. I don't think it's ideal or very reusable to create a new stylesheet class every single time you need a new percent value displayed...
But it's always nice to check out some other people's code. - debuggercll, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Thank you.
- ElBeh, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3Fingerslam?
Wait, no, nevermind, I don't want to know... - BlueCadenza, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Because IE 6, which many basic users still have, does not support PNG transparency. And I KNOW you're not suggesting using a jpeg page element with a pre-made dropshadow.
- Pherdnut, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Too many people try to figure out how CSS positioning works without understanding normal flow (the way it all works with straight HTML). I can't believe how long it took to find a reasonable description of block vs. inline elements when I was sorting it out for myself. The best any designer who is struggling with the coding aspect of web design can do is put away Dreamweaver and learn to code by hand, IMO.
- giantkicks, on 05/17/2008, -0/+1This is a great link. Thanks for posting it!
- metalgel, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1damnit now i just lost the game!
- Asianwaste, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Man if it's a youtube link, it's a dead giveaway. At least look outside of youtube to be more believable.
- Pherdnut, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Not a lot of new stuff but I liked the graphing ideas.
- ChaosKing, on 04/26/2008, -2/+3Good collection. Very interesting and neat things done here.
- xboxdesign, on 07/29/2008, -0/+0I like it it's too good
http://xboxdesign.com
http://www.zeniltuo.com/
lokendra
(web designer) - vince16, on 11/13/2009, -0/+0very good - http://www.themes-css.com
- SenyWD, on 02/24/2009, -0/+0Download free standards compliant CSS layouts: http://www.free-css-layouts.com
- TruSighT, on 04/26/2009, -0/+0I use http://CSSGallery.com because there is never enough examples of fine web design. Some use CSS examples for coding technique others use it for art design ideas of whats hot. To the CSS design artist that wants to stay on the cutting edge needs to have the largest pool of CSS design examples. I use http://CSSGallery.com simply because every CSS gallery is listed and I dont need a bookmark with a name like that.
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