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574 Comments
- sheeplescareme, on 03/30/2009, -19/+1026we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
-edward r. murrow - ballsmcgee, on 03/30/2009, -31/+698The common misconception is that the terrorists hate us because we are free, or because we are of a different religion. The truth is they don't like us "simply because of what we do in the Islamic World – because we're over there." Michael Scheuer - CIA Bin Laden Unit
My point: We have to pull out. We have to put a stop to our overseas empire. Like Michael Scheuer said, they don't like us because we constantly intervene in the affairs of other countries. - joshstone100, on 03/30/2009, -21/+406Americans cannot teach freedom and democracy to the world until they restore their own.
- mfc5200, on 03/30/2009, -7/+255"I don't think Osama bin Laden sent those planes to attack us because he hated our freedom. I think he did it because of our support for Israel, and our ties with the Saudi family and all our military bases in Saudi Arabia. You know why I think that? Because that's what he ***** said! Are we a nation of 6-year-olds? Answer: yes."
-David Cross - Pssdoff, on 03/30/2009, -10/+256"If the terrorists seriously hated freedom, then the Netherlands would be ***** dust. You know? As would Denmark, and Sweden and Switzerland and New Zealand and Canada, and every other country that is truly freer than we are."
- damonic, on 03/30/2009, -3/+142"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 - Waiting2awake, on 03/30/2009, -3/+139The ones in DC
- ballsmcgee, on 03/30/2009, -2/+132You also cannot teach freedom and democracy by FORCING it on others in the first place.
- spaceman77, on 03/30/2009, -14/+131Thank you yes, a lot of Americans don't see their country as an invading force, or an empire as you will.
- JohnILM, on 03/30/2009, -3/+113WARNING: This thread is being monitored by the NSA.
- Locupleto, on 03/30/2009, -7/+110Hating us for our freedom is a lie.
You don’t see it on mainstream media but we ***** with a lot of countries to suit our interests, and often leave devastating effects in our wake. - evilrevolution, on 03/30/2009, -32/+133what terrorists?
- inactive, on 03/30/2009, -14/+103The "terrorists" are mad because we're meddling around in their affairs. I'm pretty sure we'd be pissed off too if some asshat country started getting involved in our ***** and not minding their own business.
- harbonah, on 03/30/2009, -4/+88"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT"
Thomas Paine
My favorite quote and it fits in with so many discussions today the man was a genius. - grow, on 03/30/2009, -3/+80There's plenty of people like Murrow out there. It's just no one gives a ***** enough to pay any attention to these issues because it's not bothering them yet. Apathy is the true enemy.
- cli006, on 03/30/2009, -2/+76"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
- Abraham Lincoln - Darkyuubi, on 03/30/2009, -4/+70Try....we-keep-going-into-their-country-and-*****-up-their-*****. That one works as well.
- xtopher01, on 03/30/2009, -3/+65"Instead of listing random quotes on digg. Why dont you do something."
-StueyPidass - natxavier, on 03/30/2009, -14/+68Actually, it's not our freedom they hate us for. It's our arrogance, wastefulness, and general tendency to shove our way of life (and armies) down their collective throat. But hey, who's keepin' tabs anyhow?
- sheeplescareme, on 03/30/2009, -7/+60i think many folks are starting to catch on. trouble is, the gov't doesn't answer to the public.
- directedition, on 03/30/2009, -1/+48WARNING: Your tax dollars are being spent to pay people to read Digg.
- FruitFocker, on 03/30/2009, -3/+49Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
- joshstone100, on 03/30/2009, -4/+41Forced democracy by the barrel of a gun. You comply or else! How's that for liberation? We have to bomb the village in order to save it. So Halliburton / KBR can swoop in to rebuild your country while earning massive profits on taxpayer funded No Bid government contracts. Can you feel the freedom?
At that point it's nothing resembling democracy. Only a phony facade that is easily seen through by anybody with more than 2 properly functioning brain cells to put together. - Drahkar, on 03/30/2009, -6/+42The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Thomas Jefferson
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.
"The constitutions of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves;
that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom
of the press." Thomas Jefferson
I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.-Thomas Jefferson
What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?-Thomas Jefferson
Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.-Thomas Jefferson
I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.-Thomas Jefferson
Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.-Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson. Now that was a great man and a great president who understood what liberty and freedom really meant. Its too bad there are so few people in the political arena like him anymore. - thelastcivilian, on 03/30/2009, -5/+41I thought they hated us because we were beautiful.
- OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 03/30/2009, -5/+38@Ihope
the barbary wars were against pirates, unrecognized by the caliph of the time and more importantly unrepresentative of islamic values expressed both by the understanding of islamic doctrine and the actions of the majority of muslim history. they were thugs that john adams agreed to pay, they were not "islamists" as the term is understood today because they really just wanted to collect tribute from and pirate the ships that came through the Mediterranean. basically, no aspirations of world domination.
the riots in france have more to do with racial and ethnic tensions that reach back to colonial history where algerians lived under the foot of french subjugation and are today still at the butt end of racism living as second-class citizens in france. Not exactly steeped in aspirations of world domination either.
As for your claims of world domination, you should realize that most parts of the world that today are inhabited by muslims were never attacked by a muslim army. Historically, Islam was spread mostly through intellectual and cultural exchange. This is especially true east of arabia and only mostly true west of arabia where even then Muslim armies were more often provoked into war. I think europeans understand islam to be spread by the sword because that was their experience in Andalusian Spain. They seem to forget their experience in Jerusalem where the crusader armies slaughtered over 50k Muslim civilians in one day and when the Muslim army took the city back less than 100 years later, they gave all civilians complete amnesty (and invited back the jews that were exiled from jerusalem by the christian occupiers). The reality is that Muslims want precisely what they say they want and have always wanted: to live in peace, govern themselves, and be free from foreign subjugation and intervention. You deny this and claim they are lying in favor of your own twisted demonization of nearly 20% of the world's population.
Your accusations are ironically misplaced. If you want to know who had and has real aspirations of world domination, read the accounts from the floor of Parliament from colonial times where explorers reported on the pliability of natives (who had lived for centuries in peace under Muslim rule btw), or the journals of colonists like Cecil Rhodes who wanted to see Britain rule the world and make way for the white man's rightful place at the top. Tell me where Muslims exterminated entire populations of locals to make way for their own breeding the way America, Australia, even Argentina today... are all white, Christian, countries. Historically, wherever Muslims ruled an area, the standard of living increased. Contrast the condition of natives surviving colonization. This is especially true in Africa today which celebrated dynastic monarchies and relative prosperity under Islamic rule (granted was never wealthy or very prosperous as they were more autonomous as is evidenced by the strength of the barbary pirates), but is today a wasteland of famine and disease less than a century after colonists left. Indeed, it takes generations to build a civilization, only one to tear it all down.
Nothing compares to the brutal and merciless colonization the world experienced at the hands of Christian Europe. North and South America, Africa, the Middle East, most of Central and Southeast Asia, all ruled by tyrannical monarchs in Europe. And nothing was done for the natives, instead they lived this debilitating mercantile feudal nightmare where their societies were sucked dry to feed the crown.
You think Muslims want to take over the world? the history of how the map looks the way it looks today says completely otherwise. I suspect deep down you understand this, but will not accept that comfort of your life is inherited from brutality, slavery, subjugation, murder, and theft. It creates this deep cognitive dissonance which causes you to deny other people's own words (bin laden claiming he's upset with US support for israel) and instead replace them with your own ahistorical narrative seeking to demonize and dehumanize your victims that very understandably struck back.
finally, you claim to have studied Islam and the Quran in Arabic. I'm sure realize then that the verses of war are in a context of defense and that the Quran qualifies the command to fight with "fight those that fight you" as well as verses that call to reconciliation if your opponent wishes it. You cannot show me a single verse that calls the Muslims to world domination or to attack innocent people, or to attack unprovoked. And having lived in the Middle East, l'm sure you realize what little difference the Quran makes to the people anyway. You know how many Christians read their Bible... blaming Christianity for the violence of George Bush or the crusaders or even colonization, all of that being violence done in the name of Christianity, is really quite silly. Again your narrative stretches even farther from reality in your deep insistence that Muslims are indeed deserving of their victimized status in the world today.
I only bothered with this lengthy response because you clearly are trying to prove a point, that history supports your narrative reading of Muslims as bloodthirsty animals with aspirations of world domination.. that we are all little saddams and osamas waiting to happen. While most Muslims are quiet, especially here in America where our positions in society hang by a thread, despite our contributions, I feel from time to time it's important to combat these kinds of accusations especially when they claim the force of history. - Akairenn, on 03/30/2009, -2/+30Of course not. We don't have snappy uniforms or an Emperor. Or Praetorian Guard.
Hell, we don't even have an Imperial March. For having an Empire, we sure don't get much out of it. :p - inactive, on 03/30/2009, -8/+36@IHopeHeFails: you have a kool aid mustache.
- lamiaconfitor, on 03/30/2009, -8/+34the 'terrists' won!
- Flytrap, on 03/30/2009, -3/+29I think that you are missing the point... Most of these "revolutionaries" have been trying to overthrow their corrupt and murderous leaders for years... they haven't been able to do so because we (especially America) have been propping the dictatorships up and providing them with arms with which to continue the oppression of their own people.
Does anyone really think that the Saudi and Kuwaiti dictatorships would still be in place if it was not for our overt support and protection.
Of course it is our fear of the unknown that drives us to this "lessor of two evils" position. Our lack of faith in humanity and man-kinds constant quest to assert himself and his freedoms (because our western leaders know they are able to get away with in our liberal democracies) we fear the rise of the Islamic Republic and how that might impact our thirst for ever more oil. - xxsk8rguyxx, on 03/30/2009, -7/+32"Momma said knock you out!"
-LL CoolJ - OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 03/30/2009, -0/+24kimmy, it's not like they elected the saudi royal family.. we have a long history in the region of propping up govts that suit our interests and destabilizing those who don't. they sorta blame america for their corrupt leadership as odd as it may sound.
the CIA squashed no less than 5 small rebellions against saddam in the 80s. they also overthrew a democratically elected leader of Iran (mossadegh I think) in the 50s and replaced him with the fascist shah who committed many human rights abuses we turned a blind eye to. why? because mossadegh natioanlized british oil interests. there's more than a few examples of this.. - bkrejchi, on 03/30/2009, -2/+25"Thomas Jefferson. Now that was a great man and a great president who understood what liberty and freedom really meant. Its too bad there are so few people in the political arena like him anymore."
Agreed. An observation: Jefferson could never succeed in politics today, because the president is no longer about governing. He's about growing government, providing for everybody, and controlling the markets. None of which, are helpful in the long term. - OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 03/30/2009, -1/+24lol imagine the outcry if the chinese govt conducted a covert ops mission.. say to ferret out what they consider subversive falun gong movement activities in new york city, which resulted in collateral damage of 3 americans as well as several chinese "terrorists." We' be super pissed, might even start a war over it.
- inactive, on 03/30/2009, -3/+23Oh, is that why they don't mess with the other countries who don't ***** with them? :P
I'm pretty sure they don't hate Sweden.. or Switzerland. - Mersonix, on 03/30/2009, -1/+21"and our freedom's consuming itself... what we become... is contrary to what we want.... take a bow"
- gobbleplex, on 03/30/2009, -1/+21Your graph is wrong. Let me fix it for you.
<-- Tyranny ------------- MiddleGround --------------- Freedom -->
Notice how 'safety' isn't anywhere in there? It's because it has nothing to do with freedom or tyrrany. - inactive, on 03/30/2009, -4/+24Well I think it's a bloody brilliant strategy. After all, the terrorists hate us for our freedom - so if we get rid of it, they won't hate us anymore.
- inactive, on 03/30/2009, -0/+18Well, that's the trouble with our empire - it's so under-the-radar. Which sucks both in that we get nothing out of it, and most people don't even realize it exists.
- bizzywho, on 03/30/2009, -6/+23The American people need to wake up to the fact that these terrorists do not hate us because of our freedom. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard! The terrorists hate us because of our foreign intervention in the Middle East.
Sure, there way of life is very conservative and sometimes even degrading towards women, but that's THEIR culture. We shouldn't be pompous imperialists who think we are the police of this world!
The idea that the terrorists hate us because of our freedom is a lie! We have been spoonfed this lie! They hate us because we're over there meddling with their way of life and their leaders! - cash202, on 03/30/2009, -0/+17"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
-Dwight D. Eisenhower - Khast, on 03/30/2009, -0/+17Sign me up...hell, I'm here for an average of 25 minutes in the morning, and an hour in the evening. Might work well as a 2nd job.....is there any benefits, and what's the pay scale.
Aww...too bad.. I am on their list already. - ZBrannigan, on 03/30/2009, -2/+18"WHAT!?"
- Lil Jon - kemp34, on 03/30/2009, -3/+19In the former land of limited government, big government lunatics have brought woe to the American people.
- Drahkar, on 03/30/2009, -1/+17Not to mention that all of those things are exactly what Jefferson was convinced would work towards the downfall of the country. Scary how seemingly correct he was when you see where things are going.
- muckemuck, on 03/30/2009, -5/+20What is Obama doing to change this?
- mithrasinvictus, on 03/30/2009, -1/+15Any of those countries have an incarceration rate of less than 10% of the US.
Their freedom of speech is not restricted to "free speech zones".
Their government marketplace restrictions have softened the blow from the US's economic meltdown.
They also have a lot more freedom from gun related violence. - c010rb1indusa, on 03/30/2009, -0/+14Word
They hate imperialism not, freedom, only difference is their population is uneducated and can be manipulated easily by local clerics, warlords etc - Crazyredivan, on 03/30/2009, -0/+13...liberty itself? How is it not essential in the founding, and concept, of our nation?
He wasn't qualifying the liberty as "essential", he was describing it as such. - danro, on 03/30/2009, -1/+14you forgot to put "/sarcasm" at the end of your post.
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