What is Digg?390 Comments
- booksnmore4you, on 04/09/2009, -60/+245The glaring problem with this comic is that the predictions it made were proven false.
You people are thus celebrating a comic that should stand as condemnation of the same mantras given today, but you are instead gloating in the message of both.
Have you lost your ability to perceive reality or something?
Sheesh. - dekuscrub, on 04/08/2009, -62/+169What a great find!
Just goes to show we have come full circle. The message is timeless. - anexanhume, on 04/10/2009, -35/+136Yeah, we never did come out of that recession back then... oh wait.
- pookydirt, on 04/09/2009, -52/+152Outstanding!!! And an almost creepy proof that those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it...
- Rub3do, on 04/10/2009, -12/+73What was WWII? A massive government spending program that put many people to work. As long as we kill people during a government spending program its then not socialism?
- TurnipFarm, on 04/10/2009, -30/+91Wow, if you're wrong once why not use the same cartoon again? You guys are truly idiots.
- koinek, on 04/10/2009, -12/+67Are you talking about the same history in which America got out of the depression and none of these predictions came true? The same history where the anti-communist witch hunts are seen as a dark blight? The same history where FDR is seen as one of the greatest Presidents?
- JohnKFisher, on 04/10/2009, -23/+72Great find! proves nicely how the same debunked warnings were made before -- and are just as false now as then!
- Indyanna, on 04/09/2009, -25/+71Solomon was right. There's nothing new under the sun.
- serif69, on 04/10/2009, -15/+55The predictions may have been false, but the underlying warnings proved to be true. The Great Depression saw the largest increase in the size and scope of the federal government until that point. You have to remember that there wasn't even federal income tax until just 16 years before this cartoon was made, and at the time it was made, government spending had increased by multiples of ten. If history has taught us correctly, we know that any time a government increases its power, it takes nothing short of force for it to relinquish that power. Since 1934, federalism has either increased or held steady, but never decreased. So while the predictions of fascism, communism, etc will likely still not pan out, we should certainly heed the warnings regarding the overreaching hand of the federal government.
- bmdubya, on 04/10/2009, -30/+69Just shows that Neocons have always been trying to scare the ***** out of Americans with the word "communism."
- Nhmarine, on 04/10/2009, -22/+59.... Lets all cower behind fear and paranoia of commies like they did back in the fifties to the eighties... great, just great...
- wreckosaurus, on 04/10/2009, -31/+66Wasn't this comic proven wrong? So I guess we're bringing back calling everyone pinkos and commies now, sigh... Way to go digg, let's revert to 60 years ago.
- Infidelcastr0, on 04/10/2009, -18/+52Yup, the McCarthyist chicken-littles were wrong then and they're wrong now.
- notoriousbob, on 04/10/2009, -23/+55I am simply marveled by the people reveling in the "relevence" of a cartoon that was completely incorrect.
- MaxBWeinberg, on 04/10/2009, -2/+30"Young pinkies from Columbia and Harvard" made me laugh.
- zorpscorp, on 04/10/2009, -24/+50McCarthy would be so proud of the Republican base today!
- nemanin, on 04/10/2009, -12/+36how in the world is the an argument against -- let me get this straight -- 'Odumbo' (must be because of the ears; wow, doctorf, that's clever)
if i'm not mistaken (and please correct me, conservatives, if i am) since this comic was published in 1934 and made such a strong argument that america was on an imminent path towards communism and/or a dictatorship, america has, in fact, never been anything like either.
hmmm. i guess doctorf is right. same BS, different era - thelif, on 04/10/2009, -26/+50This political cartoon was incredibly accurate in it's predictions. In 1935, FDR declared himself dictator of the United States soon after imprisoning the members of Congress and exiling the Supreme Court justices to Mexico and Canada. 1936, massive spending in the bio-science sector led to the emergence of cloning technology when Lenin himself was resurrected.
Oh wait no, FDR was elected during a period of high unemployment and he proposed massive reform to the economy while providing relief to those losing their homes and jobs. Then re-elected by a massive margin of 46 out of 48 states, with 60.8% vs 36.5% popular vote. If that is what happens during the Obama presidency I would be pretty happy. - wreckosaurus, on 04/10/2009, -38/+58conservatives: consistently retarded since 1934
- curtisag, on 04/10/2009, -4/+23WWII allowed the US to take over as world economic and military leader. Europe, Japan, and Russia were all in shambles after the war and had to rebuild their countries. Our country was the only major country do go completely undamaged. It was then that the world adopted our currency as the world reserve currency in the aftermath of the conflict. This gave us the ability to print as much money as we wanted as long as the rest of the world had confidence in our economy. That confidence is now disappearing.
- nemanin, on 04/10/2009, -11/+29how in the world is the an argument against -- let me get this straight -- 'Odumbo' (must be because of the ears; wow, doctorf, that's clever)
if i'm not mistaken (and please correct me, conservatives, if i am) since this comic was published in 1934 and made such a strong argument that america was on an imminent path towards communism and/or a dictatorship, america has, in fact, never been anything like either.
hmmm. i guess doctorf is right. same BS, different era - lofispy, on 04/10/2009, -4/+21It's interesting to me that you assert today's modern governments are truly an expression on the people, and as you put it, no longer act in a detached state from the wishes of its citizens. Because no where that I look in today's world do I see that, instead I see a world awash in incremental loss of liberties and rational thinking. I see a world quickly careening towards a place of slavery for thinking men, a place where corporations and governments have become a undiscernible hydra intent on placing profits above humanity.
You assert as well that it is perfectly logical as well to want a government to run the services provided to me, but again, while you entitled to your opinions, I feel that taking a look back into history, and applying a little extrapolative thinking will show that their always consequences to these actions, and that if you are someone who is predisposed to individualist thought, than those consequences are more than you are willing to bear for a little convenience and security. Not to mention, that history has shown again and again, that every government, if given the ability to form centralized powers, will eventually become corrupted and disconnected from the will of the populace.
Finally, you assert that libertarians are missing the point of the government, and I highly disagree. I contend that it is you that is missing the point of libertarianism. First, we do not view the government with disdain or suspicion, nor do we fear the formulation of good and rational law. We, in fact, view government as an inevitability, but an inevitability that must be carefully controlled and that is properly situated as being ran as constitutional republic that is limited in amounts of centralized control and corrupting influence. This does not mean we fear government, no, it simply means that we, as individualist, want the power to live our own lives by our own decisions, free from the tyranny of total majority rule and the inevitable micro-management of our lives by any force that has too much of the responsibility of the greater good placed on its shoulders.
I could go on, but I will be nice to the TLDR crowd... - Netflix, on 04/10/2009, -4/+21Wait you mean the World War which increased goverment spending, driving the US in to debt... The fact that we were the only country that wasn't bombed to the ground after the war is the only reason we were such a huge power after.
- koinek, on 04/10/2009, -9/+26You do realise that nothing that the cartoon threatened actually happened....right? That despite all the doom and gloom predictions, America actually became more powerful in the 20 or so years that came after 1934....You are aware of this correct?
- Lisztman, on 04/10/2009, -8/+24The Great Depression lasted between 15 to 20 years.
You must be a glut for punishment if that is the sort of recovery you wish for. - proculation, on 04/10/2009, -4/+19The United States did not become a dictatorship, that's true. But one thing I know is that the federal government has much more power than before.
And about the spending: you do not spend your way out of a recession since a recession is a correction of OVERSPENDING. The economic cycles are normal and you can't avoid them. Look at Japan: the economy is stalled since almost 20 years. The key here is investment ! Not spending. When the confidence gets back, the investment will be there and the economy will get better. Just look now: it is already getting better and less than 10% of the money promised is spent. Imagine the huge debt you will give to your children just to save some bankers. - otbeverly, on 04/10/2009, -2/+17I guess once we go through the death of nearly 75 million people and the discovery of a second man-made weapon technology with the capability to destroy nearly all life on Earth, we'll know we're on our way to recovery!
- mikejones1983, on 04/10/2009, -2/+17The key to understanding that "WWII got us out of the depression" is BECAUSE we were getting PAID by foreign nations. (England, France, etc.) We were PRODUCING and being compensated. It's simple, but most people don't understand it.
- enki25, on 04/10/2009, -16/+31Yes, marvelous. It worked in the 30s and it's working now. And yet stupid people are still freaked out about the threat of communism. Go to a teabag party and moan loser.
- BigW, on 04/10/2009, -8/+22zopscorp, this editorial cartoon predates McCarthyism by decades.....
- ironhide, on 04/10/2009, -17/+31@koinek, nope we're talking about the revisionist history of the far-right where FDR was a evil dictator and McCarthy was a hero.
- eXcommunicate, on 04/10/2009, -11/+25Funny how only conservative fearmongers like yourself call Obama "The Messiah." I have never seen a Liberal refer to him in any such manner.
- scubaninja, on 04/10/2009, -2/+16The government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have.
No government is free from corruption.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
There are some Americans who would rather be more in charge of their own destiny rather than relinquish that control and have the government do things for them. - JayD16, on 04/10/2009, -14/+28@omgwtflawl
FDR responded to an attack. Bush institutionalized preemptive strike with the 1% doctrine.
FDR got us out of a depression. Bush seems to have created one, or at least a recession. - ajonsey, on 04/10/2009, -4/+17First off, there were quite a few Republican presidents before Reagan (Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford)
Conservative accomplishments may include:
- creation of the Interstate Highway System (Eisenhower)
- dissolution of segregated school system (Eisenhower)
- Increase of food aid, public assistance and social security from 6.3% to 8.9% of GNP (Nixon)
- integration of public schools in southern states (Nixon)
- opening relations with China (Nixon)
- improved relations with the Soviet Union (Nixon)
- removal of troops from the Vietnamese War (Nixon) - rckt52, on 04/10/2009, -0/+13and how long did that depression last?
- mikejones1983, on 04/10/2009, -5/+18And how much did the Fed needlessly devalue your dollar? "Those that are most hopelessly enslaved are those that believe they are free."
- davebg8r, on 04/10/2009, -6/+18Lets see, so those of you who are saying the comic doesnt have any truth: are you saying that we havent had ever increasing government spending that wont eventually bankrupt the country? We were still on the same path with deficits ever increasing and the debt ever increasing. While the current corruption of wall street, which was aided by both sides of the aisle, hastened the effect, the ultimate outcome is still the same. This current crop of spending wont mean much in the long run if we do not scale back after we recover. Otherwise, as this comic also shows, we will continue with this ridiculous cycle of booms and busts. There is history to be learned and it is often found below the surface of what is presented.
As for the anti-capitalism message thats been floating around digg, regardless of which system you choose (capitalism, socialism, etc) all of them require honest and moral people in order to function correctly. ***** people will ruin any system. - jkleinfeld, on 04/10/2009, -22/+34To blame the workers for this crisis is at least misconceived and at most outright insulting. (EDIT: I'm well aware this is an old comic, but I am also aware that a lot of diggers will find parallels with today's crisis, however misconceived.)
The productive power of the world has not diminished in the slightest: this crisis was brought about by financial sector greed, corruption and mismanagement.
Personally, I'm not 100% for these manifestations of the bailouts, that is to say not enough oversight etc etc
However, I am 100% for a "Recovery", whereby the government stimulates job creation responsibly and with thorough oversight. It worked with the New Deal, it'll work now.
On a side note, I would like to put this idea to the diggers...
It seems to me as if there is a strong tradition in the US for a powerful distrust of the government; that is logical, your nation was born from the despotism of the British Monarchy.
One thing I am always intrigued of, however, is your blinkered attitude towards modern governments. We no longer live in an age where governments act willy-nilly detached from the wishes of its citizens. I feel that, what Ron Paul and the libertarians are missing is that government, in its modern form, is an expression of the people. Government "of the people, by the people, for the people". Therefore, isn't it perfectly sane and logical to want oversight over services (health, education, police, fire) by our fellow countrymen?
Just an idea... hoping to spurn some discussion in the thread... - wiggles, on 04/10/2009, -1/+13ZZardozZ: That money should have been paid to and spent by local governments to fix roads and build schools as their constituents want, not how the federal government wants.
- inactive, on 04/10/2009, -1/+12I'm not a fan of the Reagan style of economics, but its ridiculous to say conservatives or repubs haven't done anything of value in the last 80 years. This is a good list by ajonsey, and it's best to remember that both sides have their positive and negatives.
Of course, I got to get my dig in: If Obama was advocating something on the level of the creation of the Interstate, repubs would be howling that it's wasteful, big, tax-and-spend, communist, liberal socialism. - Sherman901, on 04/10/2009, -5/+15How exactly is this only the Republicans' fault? The Democrats and Republicans are both to blame here.
- Danenania, on 04/10/2009, -1/+11That timeline exhibits a shallow understanding of economics and only includes facts that fit the author's agenda. The main problem is that GNP and unemployment statistics CANNOT in themselves be used as indicators of "economic recovery".
GNP includes government spending, so a deficit spending program can always increase the nominal GNP, but in reality, since the allocation of resources will not be directed by the decentralized market system of supply, demand, and price, but by government planners with a necessarily limited knowledge of the areas of economic activity in which they involve themselves, resources will inevitably become misdirected to less productive or outright wasteful purposes. The economy can suffer even as GNP rises.
Similarly, the government can nominally reduce unemployment with spending programs, but since these new jobs are created by government planners with limited knowledge, and not the market system, many of the jobs will be unproductive, and the real economy will suffer as a result. To use a common analogy, if everyone in America was employed by the government to dig holes and fill them back up again all day long, we'd have 0% unemployment, but would this give us a strong economy? In fact, we'd quickly become completely impoverished.
The timeline also doesn't address the many examples of previous economic crashes (including stock market crashes, bank runs, and high unemployment), that ended in a few months on the low end, and two years in the worst examples, with very little government intervention. The great depression stands as both the worst economic downturn in history AND the downturn marked by the most ambitious government intervention. If you understand economics on a level deeper than statistical fluff, you know the reason for the correlation.
Check out The Great Depression by Murray Rothbard for more analysis in this vein. He certainly wasn't affiliated with the Republican party. - inactive, on 04/10/2009, -5/+15All it took was a world war - which is why as soon as the war ended, the economy immediately returned to collapse and despair. Wait, what, it didn't? Oh, never mind.
- eXcommunicate, on 04/10/2009, -4/+14Folks, the Depression ended in 1939.
- endustry, on 04/10/2009, -0/+10Freeways are only used by gays to get married to other gays who live far away. Everyone knows it's true but the liberal media won't say it. Down with the freeways!
- inactive, on 04/10/2009, -1/+11Iraq certainly cost something. So did 2 world wars. People like to pretend that war is unavoidable in all cases. I don't think that's true. But then, I think Wilson was a ***** President.
- inactive, on 04/10/2009, -9/+18Love this comic.
- anexanhume, on 04/10/2009, -9/+18That's it, you've figured it out! Bush had so much foresight he took corrective action before it started by invading Iraq and Afghanistan. Bloody brilliant!
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