What is Digg?238 Comments
- SqueakyWheel, on 10/11/2007, -15/+177Please stop giving aid to Africa. It motivates politicians to keep their population poor so they can pocket more aid.
- Sxeptomaniac, on 10/11/2007, -1/+46It's sad, but this is exactly the way a lot of poor countries operate. I have some friends from the Democratic Republic of Congo, and it's often much the same as in Cameroon, from what they've told me. The longer a corrupt dictator remains in power, the more corruption filters to every level of society. Even local offices for non-profit organizations fall prey to the same behavior, because corruption is taken for granted, becoming almost a way of life.
- danlovejoy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+44I saw Bill Clinton on CSPAN a few weeks ago. He put it very succinctly.
If you know that a certain effort has a predictable outcome, you are willing to undertake an activity, start a business, go on a trip, volunteer, organize something. Note - it doesn't have to be a guaranteed positive outcome - just somewhat predictable. When you put gas in your car, it won't destroy your engine. When you pay a parking ticket, you won't get shaken down. When you drive down the road your car won't fall into a sinkhole.
In a corrupt country, you can't predict what the government is going to do, when or what it's going to steal from you. You can't predict if the water is going to be on or off today. You can't predict if you'll be arrested so the police can extract a bribe. You can't see the upside - not knowing the risks, so you don't take a risk. You don't start a business, you don't go on that trip. You don't spend money. It kills the economy and creates a death spiral.
Of course, like the taxi drivers, there are certain entrepreneurs who will not be suppressed, but I thought Clinton's explanation was excellent.
It seems to be that if you have good infrastructure and even halfway decent government, you can achieve wealth. Easier said than done, I know. - 4degrees, on 10/11/2007, -7/+43Aid to Africa destroys their internal markets. for example, if a tailor in country makes a shirt it would go for say, $5 but when people like the US flood the country with old hand-me-down shirts donated they go for say, $2 so people will opt for the cheeper shirt and put the tailors out of business. same with donating food to these countries. you flood the marked with donated rice that goes for say, $4 a bushel and a farmer's home grown stuff goes for $8 a bushel. Aid should be teaching skill, not just flooding their markets with old mickey mouse and max hedrom shirts.
- CraigJ, on 10/11/2007, -11/+38Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Stop with the foreign aid, it's not helping anyone but the corrupt few.
- glmory, on 10/11/2007, -9/+32Surprisingly well thought out article.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+24If that $1 saves someone's life, and that person has 5 children it can't feed, 5 more people die. NEVER GIVE CHARITY UNLESS IT DECREASES THE NEED FOR FUTURE CHARITY.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22It is pretty hard to build a business when people keep showing up to steal your stuff or tax and regulate you into non-existence.
- Conwaysb0718, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23do you want it on your mind that your $1 could have ended someone's life?
- mjhamilton, on 10/11/2007, -4/+22It's because they don't have an iPhone to make them super duper productive by delivering their e-mail, storing their digital movies, or granting their every wish.
- f0dder, on 10/11/2007, -7/+24They don't have evil corporations to provide jobs, outsourced or otherwise. Who wants to be exploited when treebark tastes so good.
- Arabani, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19I thought that was heavily implied by the countless mentioning of corruption
- unibomber999, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Yeah, that was kind of the point of the whole article.
- danlovejoy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Wasn't that the thesis of the article?
- geekee, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11RTFA. It's not the free market that's the problem, it's corrupt leaders.
- ICSU, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Time to start reading something else than Marx.
- voisine, on 10/11/2007, -5/+15Reason is my favorite online magazine. Nearly all their articles are just as lucid. Human liberty works. Slavery in any form doesn't (socialism, legislated moralism, communism, fascism, etc...)
- Battleloser, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11He's right guys. Overpopulation of an undeveloped country makes it damn near impossible to fix.
- ryanjulian, on 10/11/2007, -5/+14Yes. We know. Lots of poor countries have bad rulers. You know what else? Lots of others have good rulers, but are held in a stranglehold by IMF conditionality, unjust US farm subsidies on the few products these countries can produce, and the poor reputation given to all poor countries by the minority with (abysmally) bad leadership.
So yes, aid should not be given to countries with poor leadership; and the way we give aid to countries with good leadership needs to be rethought.
Does that mean all aid should be cut off because of libertarian fundamentalists trying to portray the world as a place of black and white where non-market solutions always lead to failure and doom? Hell no. Does that mean we should indiscriminately give aid to any poor country with no regard for its record of trustworthiness and on-the-ground circumstances? No.
Whatever the solution is, there is no arguing with the fact that if the United States is as generous and caring a nation as we claim to be, we cannot sit back enjoying the wealthiest economy on earth while thousands children die of hunger every day in other parts of the world. - RussellDovey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Yes, large countries with huge mineral wealth like Nigeria are obviously doomed from the start.
- Corrosionx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Poverty is relative. In the U.S. most poor people have color TVs.
You'll always have relative poverty, but you can still enhance the poor's standard of living by enhancing everyone's through a prosperous and free economy. - TeamRocket, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12Everyone here should read:
The End of Poverty: Economic Possibilities for Our Time (ISBN 1-59420-045-9) is a 2005 book by American economist Jeffrey Sachs
you'll see where how much and where all money that 1st world countries go when they donate. - WickedRasputin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Absolutely right. Western aid finances corrupt governments who can easily ask for more money to fight "terrorists" or "disease" and just pocket it. Also, U.S., WB and IMF aid comes with ridiculous restrictions, rules and regulations that end up bringing back 4 dollars out of every 5 back to the giving country, usually the U.S. For example those who get U.S. aid must spend that money on U.S. companies. So if an NGO needed to buy a laptop it would have to settle for the U.S. made laptop that may cost three times as much as a Japanese equivalent. One also needs to use U.S. air carriers for travel expenses no matter how much more expensive it may be compared to a local company. The U.S. will also send "consultants" to look over how the aid is being spent and who, in turn, are paid with the aid money at a ridiculous salary. For these two reasons, the corrupt governments and the loopholes in foreign aid, the average African sees none of it.
- adml_shake, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12well actually it's because the men there haven't figure out how to pull it out and spray it all over her like we have here in the states.
- f0dder, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Dude, you're gonna make Bono and Geldof cry.
- unibomber999, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Yes, but it isn't much new insight. The fact that greed and self-interest are both cause and result in poor countries is pretty evident. The question that needs to be answered is, how were these barriers overcome in other societies, and why are they so hard to overcome in places like Camaroon?
I did like the "kleptocracy" term though. - Battleloser, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9That's no excuse to let Bush act as he pleases. If anything the article makes the point that leaders must be held to a higher standard.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Because you ***** refuse to buy better quality goods made locally at slightly higher prices than the crap imported from China etc.
- WickedRasputin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Western aid finances corrupt governments who can easily ask for more money to fight "terrorists" or "disease" and just pocket it. Also, U.S., WB and IMF aid comes with ridiculous restrictions, rules and regulations that end up bringing back 4 dollars out of every 5 back to the giving country, usually the U.S. For example those who get U.S. aid must spend that money on U.S. companies. So if an NGO needed to buy a laptop it would have to settle for the U.S. made laptop that may cost three times as much as a Japanese equivalent. One also needs to use U.S. air carriers for travel expenses no matter how much more expensive it may be compared to a local company. The U.S. will also send "consultants" to look over how the aid is being spent and who, in turn, are paid with the aid money at a ridiculous salary. For these two reasons, the corrupt governments and the loopholes in foreign aid, the average African sees none of it.
- mighty_mouth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Poor land quality is that problem? Hong Kong is literally a piece of fricking rock, but it's doing much, much better than Cameroon.
- Terr01, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7It's not "stop giving aid".
It's "change the type of aid to avoid it being corruptible". - mattsw84, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8You really did not think people were going to digg that did you.
- mighty_mouth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Actually, back in Washington's day, folks were still following the Constitution. The Constitution gives the President fairly few powers and the "powers" he does have are supposed to be kept in check by various other branches of government.
- Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7> Providing clean water infrastructure, vaccines for children, and food for people who would otherwise starve makes a difference in millions of lives
If that's what the aid was doing, that would be great. Instead, it's causing immense damage to the local economy. - orvtech, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7coming from a poor country that should not be poor (Venezuela) i can tell you that most of the poverty happens because of government corruption., i believe that a 3rd world country is that where poor people leave in a rich country. I will keep crossing my fingers to see if a lightning strikes Chavez and free us from this oppression.
- Corrosionx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6You can easily predict that if you give money to currupt leaders because they keep their countries in poverty, they're going to continue doing it.
- unibomber999, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I'd hardly call that the worst kind. I think the kind where they chain you up and whip you isn't very nice.
- RussellDovey, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8*****, man. One good doctor or good teacher in a third-world country can make a positive difference to the lives of entire towns.
- RussellDovey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5The level of security you would need would be a practical military takeover of the country in question.
- BeefBaron, on 10/11/2007, -10/+15Location, Location, Location.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7You totally revised Haitian history. Haiti was the richest colony in the western hemisphere under French rule. The slaves killed all whites, and since then have had bloody revolution after bloody revolution. It is now a hellhole because of the lack of French.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9*****. Power doesn't corrupt, it merely AMPLIFIES one's character. George Washington had lot of power, could have been a new king, but chose to set the model of the 2 term limit. Augustus had plenty of power, and used it very well. I'm sick of hearing that ***** that power corrupts. If you don't deserve any power, then yes, it corrupts. Some people DO deserve power, because they use their power wisely and to the long term benefit of the nation.
- tomesnyder, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5You are right that power doesn't corrupt. It merely gives opportunity for one's character to be manifest.
- parasitewasp, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7@Crack(head)X
Haiti defeated the French, similar to the US defeating the UK. Haiti is poor because or the corruption and the political infighting. - Niten, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Embargoes are used to "punish" functioning economies that rely heavily on imports and exports. What 4degrees is saying is that by flooding African markets with unneeded aid, we inadvertently prevent those economies from even getting off the ground.
- Misesean, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6But at least nobody claims you're free in that situation :)
- WhiteRaven, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5What is your source on the land quality being poor?
- danlovejoy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I agree. He's been very impressive. I never voted for him, but I think he's doing great things now.
- mlostracco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4If only the submitter's description was as well thought-out.
- jjb123, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6LOL
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