What is Digg?119 Comments
- ChaosMotor, on 10/24/2007, -8/+49Here's an idea, let's sell ALL of our national assets so that we can lease back access from our new masters. It'll be just like the pre-Civil war era again, except this time, we're ALL slaves! Sure, it may be tough for the working folks, but who the ***** cares about them so long as SOMEONE's getting rich on their backs? And if it's foreigners, more power to them! Who gives a ***** about Americans controlling American assets? Like we're a free country or something! Now THAT's funny.
- Ghoztt, on 10/23/2007, -1/+38So we can't even build & control our own roads?
THEN WHY THE ***** AM I PAYING TAXES!? TO KEEP IRAQ GOING!? - kinseyincanada, on 10/22/2007, -0/+21well we have private roads in Canada as well , one highway in Toronto the 407 is privatly owned and now is one of the highest tolled raods in North America.
- Lyrl, on 10/24/2007, -13/+33"...thanks to the surging price of materials like petroleum and steel, the cost to build highways has jumped 43% since the beginning of 2004."
This is the real issue. Not only are petroleum prices not going to drop significantly, over the next ten years they are going to keep going up. Highways no longer make economic sense - our nation needs to be investing in railway lines that will be able to meet our transportation needs without falling dangerously into disrepair or bankrupting government agencies. - Lixie, on 10/23/2007, -1/+20Since my public tax money built those highways, I want my cut of the 18 billion dollars.
- RegalGSX, on 10/22/2007, -1/+18Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads...
- Error601, on 10/23/2007, -6/+19Well, not really. They couldn't, for example, decide to close it down or limit who is allowed to drive on it. Basically they're contracting the maintenance and toll collections but retaining the control.
- dvsbastard, on 10/23/2007, -4/+17I have had many discussions resulting in a lot of cursing with friends (particularly after a few beers) over the continued privitisation of what should be publicly owned and operated roads.
Most of the main arterial roadways into the central business district in my area are now privately owned (and tolled). If the government can not support one of the most crucial forms of infrastructure than what hope to we have for the future as the city continues to expand?!
Then to add insult to injury, one of the latest private escapades involved intentionally increasing congestion in surrounding areas by funneling traffic (through road closures, and changed condition) so as to increase usage of one of said private tolled roads.
Why the hell do I even bother paying ever increasing registration fees for a car which spends more and more time on private roads (which I am forced to pay to use). SCREW THE DAMN SYSTEM!!!
P.S. I am from Sydney, Australia... so believe me you Americans are not alone on this one... - manova, on 10/24/2007, -0/+13Because a rail network will not work outside of the northeast megalopolis. Most of the cities in the country is extremely spread out and do not have the population to justify mass transportation. There would be 3 people riding the train. The reason is not because Americans cannot be convinced to leave their cars at home, it is because people don't regularly commute large distances in middle America. If you want clear off the nation's highways, it is the shipping industry that favors 18 wheelers that you have to go after.
- Dumbledorito, on 10/22/2007, -0/+11Drive I-35 from the Oklahoma border, going north into Wichita. Want to get off the toll road to get gas or food without paying? Fine and dandy, if you like McDonalds and Phillips 66 and nothing else.
- XopherMV, on 10/23/2007, -2/+11No *****. Making every road a toll road is just the same as raising taxes on everyone. What's worse is that we've already paid to make these roads that they now want to toll.
These deals are an abomination. Granting a 99 year monopoly to a company is not the free market in action. The public ends up paying more in the long run than if the state maintained control. At least the state isn't increasing tolls to maintain investor profits or million dollar executive salaries. - codyg1985, on 10/22/2007, -3/+12Yes, let's lease our American-built infrastructure to foreign companies. That will solve all of our problems.
- smacksaw, on 10/22/2007, -1/+10Listen up fellow Paul-ites: This is why you need Eminent Domain laws. You see, you have politicians essentially binding us into contracts that will be in effect long after they are gone from office.
This does not serve the public good. This does not protect your liberties. There is no "free market" when it's one road we all have to share as a society.
For whatever we believe about libertarianism and the free market, our ideals often fall short of the reality of infrastructure. By definition "infrastructure" is the building block of our society - a social thing. It's something we MUST share. It must not be sold off, it must not be allowed to be gamed and it must not be made into a multi-tier system based upon private roads for the wealthy.
Local roads should be funded from local property taxes. State and county roads should be funded by sales taxes. Interstate roads should be funded by federal income taxes. No general funds, no roads being sold to investors. Roads should be owned by the public and if there is profit, the dividends should be paid to us, not investors. We are the investors. Taxes should rise and fall to serve the needs of our infrastructure, and if there is money left over it should be rebated back to us.
This isn't hard. But we convolute it with these sorts of deals that we cannot easily extricate ourselves from. Deals that go on to affect us for longer than many of us will live. - jgzman, on 10/22/2007, -0/+8Also, I have an issue with paying taxes to use roads (gas tax, registration of vehicle) then paying tolls to use the roads.
- GeminiDragon, on 10/22/2007, -6/+14The Paulies will like this. It 'liberates' them from paying taxes...since they have this bizarre idea that taxes = slavery. Taxes are not slavery, and , yes, they are constitutional.
- XopherMV, on 10/22/2007, -0/+8Exactly. You know that states won't reduce their gas or vehicle registration taxes when they move some roads to private companies with tolls. So then, you're paying just as much in taxes as you ever did PLUS the additional amount in tolls. This whole scheme is a ripoff of the public for the benefit of a well-connected few.
- cococooky, on 10/22/2007, -2/+10And that control includes closing and limiting traffic on alternate routes, - that is what the RTA in Sydney Australia have done anyway - to increase revenue for the contractors.
- fjc8, on 10/23/2007, -1/+9You mean a company that owns ports around the world (and yes, throughout the West)?
A company that wanted to buy a few more ports out of the hundreds that are already owned by non-US companies?
That whole controversy was one of the most racist and jingoistic things I've ever heard. - Dumbledorito, on 10/22/2007, -1/+9I'm sorry, but if you can't see the exact same idiocy that runs our nation's businesses being the same idiocy that runs our government (and often exchanges idiots on some kind of twisted internship program with stock options), then you are truly beyond help. As long as any endeavor has humans involved, it will have corruption to varying degrees.
- tao52nyc, on 10/23/2007, -0/+7Plus, if you want to reduce traffic further, encourage more "telecommuting" by office workers, computer geeks, et al. Tax breaks, regulatory relief, whatever it takes. I have all the tech I need to work from home every day - including a VPN connection and videoconferencing - but the bosses insist I show up each day. So it's burn the gas I go...
- Dumbledorito, on 10/22/2007, -0/+7Pretty much, yeah. Funny how not enough people had a problem with that about 2-3 years ago...
- XopherMV, on 10/22/2007, -1/+8Some of these social programs have been around since the 1930s. Our huge budget deficit and national debt pileup started in the 1980s, a whole 50 years later. It wasn't those programs that put us in this hole. No, that was Republicans lowering taxes while increasing military spending. Their borrow-and-spend practices put us in this hole, starting with Reagan and followed by Bush I and Bush II. The most economically responsible president in the last 30 years was Clinton, who actually balanced the budget and started paying down the debt.
- dvsbastard, on 10/22/2007, -2/+9Oh and don't get me started on metered parking (which is a least council controlled, not private). But there was a time when this system was in place to benefit everyone. Oh how things have changed...
Parking was timed to allow constant movement of traffic, thus benefiting local businesses, and soon paid meters were introduced as method of controlling timed parking (and although no one likes paying, the cost was always low and reasonable and was not much more than the cost involved in maintaining and collecting from the meters themselves).
It has now gotten to the point where parking has gotten so expensive, electronic meters are fitted with Credit Card readers for commuters to use to pay for parking. And to make matters worse a lot of previously free (and very busy) parking areas are now deserted as meters were put in place, but were not required and are not benefiting anyone, as no sane individual would pay the required amount. Businesses are now suffering because of this stupid greed...
They used to be about benefiting locals, now they are just another way councils can put more cash in their pockets! Grrrr
Anyways, I'll stop now before I give myself an ulcer... - LBobRife, on 10/22/2007, -1/+8Snow Crash anyone? (username related)
- Fragowell, on 10/22/2007, -1/+8I want to pay taxes for roads and crucial national infrastructure. I don't want to pay taxes for the bloated social programs and bureaucratic circle jerks that have helped tremendously in putting us in this hole.
- Amazetbm, on 10/22/2007, -0/+6So are we to expect more toll roads soon?
- JOEINDIAK, on 10/22/2007, -0/+6Tell that to Southern Californians, specifically residents and commuters using the 91 freeway going to Riverside !!!!!!
- JOEINDIAK, on 10/22/2007, -0/+6We the Southern Californians, residents and commuters using the 91 freeway going to/from Riverside knew this a long time ago! We learnt how this got on the ballot and how we got screwed going in and coming out !!!
- Dumbledorito, on 10/24/2007, -0/+5As opposed to businesses moving away to areas where one of the tax incentives was "we'll pay for your roads" or just pulling up stakes when the area got too run down.
Businesses are whores, always on the lookout for the better deal. If businesses had any sort of domestic pride, they would be willing to pay more for domestic labor and manufactured goods. But that's not how business works: Business is mostly about being selfish and pleasing the stockholders these days, not about doing the right thing if it means any sort of decline in profits. - XZanatos, on 10/22/2007, -0/+5Short answer: YES. Welcome to the Neo-Conservative agenda: privatization of EVERYTHING, and reducing government to merely a private army that attacks anyone that gets in the way of profits.
- tehpwnrate, on 10/22/2007, -0/+5I assumed you were being sarcastic... you were, right?
- cheesehead, on 10/23/2007, -1/+6I believe most of what you said but I believe that the 911 highjackers originated in Cheney's office no matter what country they still live in.
- eth3l, on 10/22/2007, -1/+6But most people on Digg want the same goverment to run Healthcare.
- XopherMV, on 10/23/2007, -2/+7Private industry is constantly looking to increase profits to pay investors and afford their million dollar executive salaries. In the case of these companies, that means increasing tolls, which is the same as a tax. They can also increase revenues by decreasing maintenance. So in this case, private industry is LESS efficient than government and provides WORSE service, in this case ***** roads.
- KingBunny, on 10/22/2007, -1/+6Automatic cynical response: "Well, they already control the government, why not the roads."
- Seidoger, on 10/22/2007, -0/+4We're going to have a new one in Québec too (although it's gonna be private-public partnership, there will still be tolls)
- zekt, on 10/22/2007, -1/+5In Melbourne, Australia we have one major road that is running like this currently, with a second on the way. The deal is they build it and get to collect Tolls for 30 years, at which point in time ownership returns to the state, The contracts need to be carefully negotiated to ensure revenue streams (by limited competing infrastructure development) , and including staggerred further investment in the infrastructure so it is not run down over time.
As a result we have seen a lack of development in public transport (as it competes) but the freeway has been steadily improved over time (because that ensures revenue growth).
So it is horses for courses. My take is that as oil prices rise, these roads will be used less - thus forcing the losses partially onto business. - machrider, on 10/23/2007, -12/+16Cue a bunch of Diggers (the same ones cheering Ron Paul) freaking out over privatization.
- Triachus, on 10/22/2007, -1/+5What people don't understand is that congestion is often a self-correcting mechanism. In some cases (the Schuylkill Expressway in Philly) another arterial might be of use, but most often the congestion makes people choose different routes, therefore spreading the traffic around. Tolls are often used by state governments for both revenue and creating congestion but private companies only use tolls for profit or because government contract tells them so.
- XopherMV, on 10/23/2007, -3/+7Tolls are a form of taxes. This doesn't stop taxes at all. It just moves the taxes around and makes them worse since a private company needs to charge more than the state to collect a profit and pay for executive salaries. No government worker makes a million a year, including the President. But, the CEOs of private companies make from tens to hundreds of millions.
- ferndave, on 10/22/2007, -0/+4>What would you want to live in?
A different suburban area or state comes to mind. - spinningobo, on 10/23/2007, -3/+7Dugg for "auto-eroticism".
- Triachus, on 10/22/2007, -0/+3Toronto is well known for its privatized route 407. Vancouver is looking to privatize to bolster its infrastructure for the Olympic games and Montreal has been debating the plan as well. Its not a terrible plan but the timing just reeks of fiscal irresponsibility. I just pray that the US doesn't end up forfeiting their responsibility to limit highway growth. The last thing we need are more highways.
- AgentBuckwald, on 10/24/2007, -1/+4Taxes aren't slavery? If I took a portion of the fruits of your labor whether you liked it or not, would you be my slave?
- smacksaw, on 10/22/2007, -0/+3Because it's part of your infrastructure. I can understand the rebates on life insurance - where you go 10 years without a claim and you get your premiums back. But if you call for a pizza? EMS comes to your house? Do you get mail delivery?
You really don't use it?
If people paid for roads as they used them, there would be nothing BUT tolls. Those who can least afford it are hurt most. Besides what do you think fuel taxes are (supposed to be) for? You pay as you use it, the problem is apportionment - you live in Rhode Island but drive to work in Massachusetts. You are not paying to use their road. Some developer builds a new suburb in a different county, but people still work in the city. Who is paying for that? That's what you're talking about, a toll to enter London or New York City. - JOEINDIAK, on 10/22/2007, -3/+6I remember a certain Dubai company trying to take control of one of our Ports !!!!
- zyko, on 10/22/2007, -0/+3They forgot to mention that some politicians (like Rick Perry) are getting financial gain from toll road deals.
- nick111, on 10/22/2007, -1/+4That's funny - I thought you people were all Libertarians?
Don't you want "small government"?
Don't you want the entire world to be handed on a plate to corporations in the name of F'F'F'F'Free-Markets?
I thought this was what you wanted?
That's freedom isn't it? If the government doesn't exist any more? - seangum, on 10/22/2007, -0/+3I used to live in Chicago and still drive back there monthly taking the Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road. Since they went private, the roads are constantly, and I mean constantly, being worked on. The one thing I can't stand is that they just implemented electronic tolling, but get this, you still have to stop at a gate. Ridiculous. Electronic Tolling put in by the state on all the other tollroads are non-stop. (I-294, I-80, etc.) I thought the whole point of electronic tolling was so you could keep moving?
Sean Gum - Dumbledorito, on 10/22/2007, -0/+3Also what needs to be addressed, in a way, is popular commerce areas that just can't accomodate the number of vehicles that "want" to be there. Nearly every metropolitan area has this problem on a daily basis, and its worse if the area has heavy "recreational" areas (shopping, tourism, etc.). It's almost gotten to the point where we'll have to either make half the structures into parking garages or turn our commecial and business zones into "commerce theme-parks" where you take the tram in and remember that you parked in "E" lot.
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