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Web 2.0, Please Meet Your Host, the Internet

gigaom.com — Web 2.0 companies need to get a better understanding of the host entity that runs their business, the Internet. If not, they need to need to find someone that does, preferably someone they bring in at inception. Failing to do so will inevitably cost these companies users, performance and money.

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  • rentmitchum, on 05/08/2008, -1/+7We are the internets.
  • apmtt, on 05/08/2008, -7/+15I wish people would stop talking about "Web 2.0" like it's some kind of an entity that is separate from "Web 1". Really, all it is is people getting better at web design.
    • saggygrandma, on 05/08/2008, -7/+5what about the social aspect, ie facebook and digg voting, not a fan of people throwing the words Web 2.0 around but the internet has taken large social step in the last couple of years.
      • trappleton, on 05/08/2008, -2/+10Link me to the release notes for Web 2.0
      • MtheoryX, on 05/08/2008, -0/+10The Internet was plenty social, far before the term "Web-two-point-oh" came around.
      • B3N3, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2Those things came with the Service Pack.
    • Grimdotdotdot, on 05/08/2008, -0/+11Web 2.0 is just an umbrella phrase for a bunch of ideas and technologies that have been around for far longer than the name.
      And rounded corners, obv.
      • galiean251, on 05/08/2008, -0/+9Don't forget soft gradients, badge stickers, and removal of the lettr "E"..... on everything
      • apmtt, on 05/08/2008, -0/+6Eagerly awaiting the update to 2.1
        • ultrafez, on 05/08/2008, -0/+4Of course, it will be in beta for years before it is finalised. With a shiny, shiny beta badge.
        • apmtt, on 05/08/2008, -0/+0But, fortunately, subsribers will be able to participate in the beta.
      • known, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3Web 2.0 = asynchronous communication on web.
    • linuxpenguin, on 05/08/2008, -0/+1From the article, it sounds like it's more like people *NOT* getting better at Web design. . . actually, "Web 2.0" isn't about Web design so much as creating some sort of platform. Like Digg - it's basically a forum with links to articles instead of forum topics. . . but they have a uniform toolset that other Web developers use to help them utilize Digg's resources (and the idea is to bring popularity and a larger user base to both - although often this isn't what happens, and instead the website gets dugg and then everyone on Digg just looks at a mirror of the site, and/or laughs at how quick it went down).
  • laserdog, on 05/08/2008, -5/+21Wow, this is nothing more than a guy bragging about how much more he knows about networking than two random people.

    It has nothing to do with Web 2.0, and would remain equally true of Web 1.0?

    "You're welcome!!!"

    Buried.
  • alexforcefive, on 05/08/2008, -1/+5tldr; stop being noobs?
  • fpcyber, on 05/08/2008, -0/+6Finally someone speaks up on this. I am tired of using applications or websites that die when too many users go onto the site. Yet these "companies" are paying north of 5k a month for hosting. Yet I've heard of others pay a few hundred bucks and have nearly 10 times the amount of users. Web 2,0 sites don't seem to take the time to optimize queries or their site properly.
  • trappleton, on 05/08/2008, -0/+5I wonder what the site was that suffered the DDoS.
  • trappleton, on 05/08/2008, -2/+4I wonder what the site was that suffered the DDoS.
  • lnxfi, on 05/08/2008, -1/+6This article sucks. Let's pretend it was about ninja monkeys that throw kittens as weapons.

  • ken12012, on 05/08/2008, -1/+6What exactly IS Web2.0?
    • nezroy, on 05/08/2008, -1/+6Users create it, make it grow. Its network surrounds us and binds us. Internet beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Web 2.0 around you; here, between you, me, the website, the router, everywhere, yes.
      • linuxpenguin, on 05/08/2008, -1/+1Take the blue pill and you'll wake up tomorrow in Web 1.0 not remembering this ever happened, and you can believe whatever you want to believe. Take the red pill and I'll show you just how far Web 2.0 goes.
  • jasalo, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2What kind of web2.0 company doesn't pay attention to security? even a 1.0 company does!
    • fjf314, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2I think that was the point of the article.
  • r3s0p, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2I think the application of web 2.0 in this context is the newest generation of application developers that are building everything upon tiers of hosted services. Old farts like me remember when every web site was hosted out of the office over the same t1 that moved email and fed your users with slashdot and usenet.

    Now most everything is hosted, there is no office, and the 'router huggers' are employed by the service providers, not the 'web 2.0' companies. It's an evolution and certainly makes sense, i guess the guys point is that you are taking a big risk if you expect your ISP to take ownership of all of these potential potholes in the road to riches/infamy/diggs.
  • KaivenTor, on 05/08/2008, -0/+6The point of this article: Get a decent hosting provider who know's what they are doing and can handle emergency responses. Pay them what's needed, then develop the app.
    Also, the difference between web 1.0 and web 2.0 is a publisher centric model (1.0) vs. a user centric model (2.0). Essentialy Web 2.0 is like the old school BBS or forum software on crack. That's pretty much it.
  • billbugger, on 05/08/2008, -0/+1inception... Use a hosting provider that can scale when you need them... virtually all of the big players can help with that.. And note: Don't host it your self on an archaic T1 line from your office with no redundancy!
  • maz2331, on 05/08/2008, -0/+5It really boils down to this:

    Use enough server and a fast enough pipe to support your load. A nice PHP or Java-based website isn't going to be very useful to the visitors if you don't. Do check out the queries you're running, and make sure to put proper indexes into the database schema so you avoid table scans.

    If you want your site to survive being Slashdotted, Dugg, or featured on the Yahoo! homepage, build a proper load balanced cluster. This means multiple web servers, preferably with as many CPU cores as you can get, and a back-end storage server with a very fast RAID-10 array, 8 cores, and mega RAM.

    Then look at your code and make sure your queries aren't crazy -- like trying to compute a total on 500,000 rows.

    Do it right, and you can easily saturate a gigabit connection at under 20% CPU load. Do it wrong and your site will die under any real load.

    Been there. Done that. Built servers that can withstand 2 front-page Diggs + Yahoo at the same time.
  • sembetu, on 05/08/2008, -0/+6Okay, here are a few scenarios (admittedly oversimplified):

    1. I am an "Entrepreneur" with a great idea. I write a business plan, hop on GoDaddy and get my second cousin's niece-in-law to build a site on my craptastic new Web host. I don't know anything about Web Design or Network Operations, and I don't have a lot of initial capital, but my idea is pretty good. I get some traffic, and all of a sudden my great new enterprise goes tango uniform. Now what? Am I supposed to know in advance that I have to get a network specialist? Probably, but more likely is that I am "business focused" not "Web savvy".

    2. I am a "Web Designer" with a great concept for Web site. I whip up a sexy design in photoshop, slice it up in Fireworks, and publish it to my .mac account. I tell all my friends, and viola! I have some traffic. Because I don't know anything about business, I didn't write a business plan, so my funding is shoestring at best. In addition, although I know a couple of guys who know how to manage my network operations because they have built an Excel Database before, I can't afford to pay them, but "they'll take a look when they get a chance". Besides, it's hosted on .mac and "it just works", there is no way it can possibly fail. Am I supposed to know that I am doomed because I have know business knowledge? Should I know that I should stay miles away from those high end Excel database programmers I know because they will not be able to fix my errors in judgement? Yup! But guess what? My design is beautiful, so it should be the cat's meow. Nevermind the fact that I get all my business and network knowledge from Barnes and Noble while I'm sipping espresso.

    3. I am a Network Operations Manager, and I know I can make trillions by capturing some of the eyeballs behind the terrabytes of data I watch my underlings manage everyday. I've been in my job long enough to be promoted, but I got my start optimizing my home network back in '92 to make sure I could download porn faster than my 'net pen pal in Hamburg. Since I am a manager, I know how to manage things, and this Web site idea is just the thing for me to do to finally get that Camaro I always wanted. So I build myself a killer gaming rig from scratch, and set it up as a server in my house, using my 5 meg (down/max) cable broadband connection to broadcast to the world. Sure, I can guilt one of my minoins into cming over for eight straight nights with no sleep with hopes of finally getting out of the server room, and check my traffic, however, since I have no concept of design, my site looks like it was built with a hammer and nails. Also, since I'm Manager, I already know everything about business, so no need for a business plan or funding; I'll just take it out of my 2.5 kids' colled fund (I'll pay it back when I become a trillionare). Am I doomed to fail, probably. Do I have access to the right resources to protect my site? Maybe, will that even cross my mind? Unlikely. Nevermind, just think of the trillions of dollars I'll make and the Camaro.

    Here is my point. We all know someone like these folks, and mostly their faults lie with lack of "general" knowledge about things other than their narrow field of daily vision. The thing is, it takes a team to get all the components into place, and have objective feedback to save you from yourself. How many of the people this guy (in the article) runs across have even a modest team, or the desire to build one? It is a rare person that has all the skills neccessary to do it alone. It is expected that there will be a weak link eventually, but to assume that Network Optimization is the panacea for successful "Web 2.0 companies" is foolish.

    Focus on the total concept, write a business plan, get your funding in order, get a reliable and well qualified team in place, and build it as a business. The Web is not a slot machine, and just because you hire a Network Operations Specialist, doesn't mean YOUR dollar is going to make this turn at the arm turn into the jackpot.
  • linuxpenguin, on 05/08/2008, -0/+1"need to need to" r. . . r. . . remix! . . . It's correct in the article, why did it get f'ed up in the title?
    Anyways, I wish people would realize that there is only one Internet. Web, Web 2.0, Web 3.0, and whatever are basically just marketing terms to describe how your site works and what it's designed to do. You're still vulnerable to the same Internet attacks, and if you don't know what those are you better learn (or else. . . you will, if your site is successful).
    People also need to learn when others don't care. I don't care about all of the Web 2/3/4/5/whatever.0 stuff, for the most part. You can have your Twitter and whatever else you want, I don't care to write stupid little status updates all day. You might think it's the greatest thing in the world, but don't be surprised if people don't like it. There are plenty of things I find interesting and useful on the Web, and I will gladly sign up for a new site or service if it's useful - but just because you think it's the best and put all sorts of time and money into it, doesn't mean I'll like it too.
  • geniusj, on 05/08/2008, -0/+1Hmm.. A link-state protocol such as IS-IS (or OSPF) added into the mix on his eBGP uplinks would have solved his load balancing issue as well (in a much cleaner fashion).
  • killq, on 05/08/2008, -1/+0Web 2.0? LOL I have been on 4.0 for months now. You people are idiots.
  • kponto, on 05/08/2008, -0/+0"For those interested, both gigabit Ethernet links went to the same upstream eBGP router at the ISP, which meant that the exact same AS-Path lengths, MEDs, and local preferences were being sent to my friend’s routers for all prefixes. So BGP picked the eBGP peer with the lowest IP address for all prefixes and traffic..."

    Dude... totally.
  • vizionarul, on 05/10/2008, -1/+0ACUM INTERNETUL NE DA POSIBILITATEA SA FACEM AFACERI LIBERE CU MINIMUL DE INVESTITII DACA SI TU DORESTI SA FACI BANI 100%SIGUR CU DOAR 10$ PE LUNA SI CU CASTIGURI CA IN AMERICA DE 4000$ ATUNCI INSCRIETE SI AM SA TE AJUT http://website.ws/vizionarul TREBUIE SA AI UN CARD VIZA SAU MASTER-CARD 7 ZILE ESTE GRATUIT O SA AI SITUL TAU PERSONAL SI TREBUIE SATI INSCRII 5 PRIETENI SERIOSI CARE DORESC SI EI SA FACA BANII SI CAND VOM VEDEA CA NE CRESTE CONTUL PE CARD NE LASAM DE SERVICIUL ASTA NENOROCIT CU BANI PUTINI SI MUNCIM ACASA LA COMPUTER UNDE VOM FI PROPRII NOSTRI SEFI ASA CA NU MAI STA INSCRIETE SI DACA NU STII CEVA INTREABAMA 0752061692 NR MEU MOBIL INTRUN AN DE ZILE O SAMI MULTUMESTI CA MAI INTALNIT SI AI AVUT ASA NOROC ITI DORESC SUCCES SI BANI CATI MAI MULTI
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