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284 Comments
- Elsewhere42, on 11/06/2009, -14/+207And this is an excellent example of why I don't shop at Walmart.
I prefer to give my business to a company that treats its employees well. - fiatjustitia, on 11/06/2009, -17/+176Welcome to the new serfdom, folks.
So the free market will regulate itself? So the "invisible hand" will inherently guide business and corporations to do the right thing out of the kindness of their hearts? - AngryDeuce, on 11/06/2009, -3/+123Wal-Mart isn't the only retailer like this, pretty much every big chain is like this. On paper you're perfectly able to miss a day, but lord knows in practice if you really DO miss that day, you get an unbelievable amount of ***** for it.
I remember Target and Home Depot being exceptionally pissy about absences when I worked there. Home Depot gave me an unexcused absence for missing ONE DAY because my brother had emergency back surgery and was in Pediatric I.C.U. I called in and the manager on duty told me that I was under my 6 months probation and I could be laid off for it, when I went in the next day with a note (which the nurse thought was the most ridiculous thing she'd ever heard of, me needing a note, btw) they threatened to fire me, when I literally lost my mind screaming at the Store Manager and a couple other Managers they backed down, but warned me that if it's not me personally dying, then it's unexcused.
Target wasn't anywhere near that melodramatic. They just expected you to come to work sick...at least, that's what my manager said. He said "Don't worry, if you're sick, we'll send you home"...Gee, thanks Doc, glad to have your permission to puke in my own toilet.
Both those places can burn in hell...quitting both of those places after years of abuse was such a weight off my shoulders. - ParadiscaCorbas, on 11/06/2009, -7/+98How do you defend a sick leave policy which punishes people for something they can't control?
You can take your vitamins and use hand sanitizer, you can drink orange juice and cough into your elbow, but if somebody else sneezes on you or didn't sanitize before touching the doorknob, all precautions are for naught.
This is why I try to stay out of that store...it's an inhuman monolithic monster.
"Live better," my aunt Fanny's petunia patch. - lolerskate, on 11/08/2009, -12/+84You know who paid sick people that didnt come to work? Hitler. This is a free market country and profit wont wait for you or your kid to be healthy, so take your communist manifesto elsewere comrade.
/s - jtens, on 11/08/2009, -6/+63I worked on a campaign to organize Wal-Mart's last year. We failed but definitely got them scared of the union. Once union reform passes next year, Wal-Mart's policies of screwing their workers over are in serious jeopardy.
Their sick day policy is no joke. I spoke to a woman who had worked at a particular Wal-Mart for over 10 years, without ever missing a day or being late. She got pneumonia recently and was literally confined to her bed. She had a doctor's note and again remember she had never ever missed a day of work in 10 years. When she went back in after recovering, her manager told her if she misses work again she would be fired. That is messed up. - cornfeed, on 11/08/2009, -4/+49I ain't defending Wal-Mart. But many large and not so large businesses have similar illness policies these days. A large number of small businesses don't even offer sick or personal time payed or unpayed. No work, no pay at all.
- shutaro, on 11/06/2009, -6/+43Walmart will kill us all!!!
- localzuk, on 11/08/2009, -4/+40This is why I like the UK and EU - our employment laws are *very* strict on this sort of thing. Sick pay should be a legally protected thing - not something each company can use to screw their employees over.
- eluusive, on 11/08/2009, -3/+38And then they would go work at the businesses that are having money spent at them.
WTF? Nice try troll. - EdgarVerona, on 11/08/2009, -1/+35Indeed most large businesses won't pay for a sick day, but Wal-Mart sounds like it takes it a step further, into irrational territory.
FTA: "It turns out Walmart has a punitive point system where workers receive a demerit if they take a sick day,"
So it's not just about being unpaid. They're receiving additional punishment on top of that.
And the problem with this isn't just about the worker themselves: if Wal-Mart is encouraging sick people to work by penalizing them if they don't, they're exposing people who go to Wal-Mart to whatever ailment the person has, which spreads the disease if it is contagious. - magamiako, on 11/08/2009, -0/+33Honestly, our time off policy in the US is horrendous, period. Given that turnaround rates for most businesses these days is 2-3 years, you almost never accumulate a decent enough amount of time off.
In the IT sector, most of the time you're brought on as a contractor first. In which case you get next to no sick time off. You get shammed for benefits, and you take a pay cut if you actually go full time.
And the worst part is that this takes a toll on our health. Our mental health and our physical health. The stress of day-to-day life can be fixed with a magical pill to help you perform in such a society.
Thankfully my company isn't as draconian with its policies, but it is always my worry when I'm out and I didn't take a vacation day off :P - Numbski, on 11/08/2009, -2/+33Pretty much all retail environments are like that because.
1. You're replaceable.
2. If sick time can be abused, it will be.
I'm all too familiar with the temptation to "call in sick" just to take a day off at a moment's notice. To be blunt, that's a privilege that's earned as you get into a "real" job. In fact, the last several places I've worked don't call it sick time, they call it PTO - "Personal Time Off", to be taken for whatever reason you deem fit, including mental health.
Most places will start you with 2 weeks vacation and 5 days PTO. The place I'm at now is sadly WAAAY behind the times and gives you only 10 days off, no PTO. You can use your 10 days as PTO, but that means no vacation for you. :P - AngryDeuce, on 11/08/2009, -2/+30Could be worse...I could be a troll on Digg. Of course, I really don't know how I'd keep from putting a bullet in my brain if that was the case...
- mbaguy4000, on 11/08/2009, -15/+41Walmart Die!!
(p.s.- Thank you, Walmart, for my $199.00 Xbox with $100.00 Walmart Gift Card) - HowlingCoyote, on 11/08/2009, -3/+28Used to make glasses lenses for walmart. Missed work 3 times, and after the third time was required to write a ***** essay on why missing work was detrimental to the company and had to list reasons why I shouldn't be fired for missing work because I was sick. Naturally, I gave my boss the finger and told her to shove her high school homework up her fat ass. I will not work for walmart and I refuse to shop there. I would rather spend a few more dollars helping local stores than help some fat cat ***** buy new rims for their Lincoln Navigators. ***** them.
- Numbski, on 11/08/2009, -1/+25Retail. No matter how loyal you are, you're replaceable. Period.
Actually, that's true of just about any job. There's very little point in loyalty to a company. Do you job, do it well, but stay prepared to go elsewhere if you have to. Sad but true reality. :( - holychicken, on 11/08/2009, -0/+24Dear god, I hope this is a troll. Either way, you aren't too bright, but a little less moronic if this is a troll.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 11/08/2009, -1/+25There is no free market. It's a myth.
Powerful interests always lobby/bribe and collude with government.
And now the slaves are self-managing, believe that they are represented in government, and don't even realize that they are slaves. - shcforward, on 11/08/2009, -11/+34I worked at Walmart back when I was in college and I never had a problem with this. Worked there for about 6 months, took off several days. Couple of times I was sick. Once my car broke down and a few times I had to study for finals. I wasn't paid when I missed work, but I didn't deserve to be paid - I knew when I took the job that I didn't get any allotted sick days. They treated me just fine.
- kmoed, on 11/08/2009, -1/+24Be prepared to jump ship at any better offer, insure to gather as much dirt and trade secrets from current employer and sell them down the river with any given opportunity.
There is no point in being loyal to any company/corporation anymore. They treat you as disposable, so start doing to same to them, suck as much out of them while you can and move on.
This is the environment that employers have created, Let them reap what they have sown.
Walmart is no different then any other employer out there, retail or other. - haikuFU, on 11/08/2009, -1/+23The moral of the story:
IF YOU SHOP AT WALMART, YOU WILL PROBABLY GET H1N1. - jasonresno, on 11/08/2009, -2/+22I worked at the Wal Mart Distribution Center for five months last year. It's absolutely true. Anytime we'd miss ANY time we'd be given demerits. I was once in a pretty bad accident on the way up there in the morning due to a truck spinning out on the ice in front of me. I was stuck for hours but I still showed up. When I got to work I was told that there were 'no exceptions' and that I'd be given a mark for tardiness.
With that said the Distribution Center was a pretty nice place to work. Great people. Great great great pay. Excellent benefits. But I couldn't handle not being able to miss an hour of work and have that possibly get me fired.
And don't just digg-***** on wal mart. Plenty of employees follow this policy. In fact every job I've ever worked, outside of the one I'm working now, has had a system that gives you "points" for missing days of work (be it for sick time or what have you). These companies don't want people abusing the system and repeatedly skimming out of work. I understand punishing them for missing, when they are honestly sick, is wrong but if it makes employees think twice about lying...that's what they were going for. - Super6, on 11/08/2009, -1/+20The thing is, there's a much greater supply of people that can do unskilled labor (basically anyone) than there is a demand for it. This means they can be restrictive. Labor, like any other commodity, can get more expensive if people refuse to work at Wal-mart but this isn't likely to happen because if you're working there your only other options are retailers with similar policies.
- MrSteamTank, on 11/08/2009, -0/+16You "work to live" not "live to work". We shouldn't allow companies to avoid work benefits that every other first world nation on the planet has.
If people have such a problem with these kind of benefits why have maximum allowable hours or minimum wage at all? We are all free to leave our employment and work elsewhere right? Race to the bottom for the win! - Numbski, on 11/08/2009, -1/+17Circular problem. The people only think of themselves because the corps only think of their profits.
It's no shot at any given employer. I will come to work and work hard, but I've been caught off-guard enough times that I never really leave the job market. I keep my resume brushed up and keep looking. Not carefully, but I do scan listings every week or so. I'm in no hurry to leave my current employer, but several times prior that was the case and next thing I know I'm being escorted out of the building. Never again.
As long as corps show no loyalty to hard workers, hard workers should show no loyalty to corps. Fair is fair. If you want better workers and workers that will show loyalty, you have to show it first. Once upon a time this wasn't a problem because companies weren't so freaking huge and powerful. Now however....Wal-Mart is darn-near invincible, and they know it. It's not just them either.
Just watch your backs. Keep you skill set (whatever that is) sharp, your resume current, and stay ready. If you have no skills, make every effort to change that and get out of the rat race you're in. - rocknog, on 11/08/2009, -1/+16Why does it matter? The regular flu is in itself pretty damn horrendous. Have you ever had the flu? My God, don't be a ***** moron.
- publiclurker, on 11/08/2009, -9/+24So child labor and slave labor are all right by you as long at you can line you pocket, right pinch?
Your definition of ethical is almost as ***** up as you are. - djcgmcse, on 11/08/2009, -9/+24***** Walmart. I haven't shopped there in 8 years, and don't plan on ever going back unless they change their policies. Their CEO's have like $50 billion and they still pay minimum wage and help their employees fill for state assisted health insurance because their too *****' cheap. That "savings" you get from shopping at Walmart, is just you subsidizing health insurance for their employees through your state taxes.
- treehugger87, on 11/08/2009, -1/+15@mono. It wasn't the unions that decided to implement a "planned obsolescence" policy with their cars, to market big, gas-guzzling SUVs or to buy the "Hummer" brand when oil was just about to jump to $100 a barrel.
- Unexploded, on 11/08/2009, -0/+14"If an employee doesn't like walmart, they should find a new job."
Yeah, I'm sure anyone desperate enough to work for f*cking Walmart has their choice of potential careers. - unknownpoltroon, on 11/08/2009, -0/+13Barf on the floor. Sneeze on your boss. Cough on customers. Hack and spit into a dirty rag. ***** EM. Spread the goddamn death plague up the management chain, and to everyone that comes near you. I had a place that tried to do a "if you're out sick, you need to bring in a Drs. note, no exceptions. They looked at me like i was insane when i asked how do you expense the 50$ trip to a Dr for a head cold. I asked my manager if barfing on her desk would still require a Drs note. She had a sense of humor.
- stanleyford, on 11/08/2009, -1/+13"So the free market will regulate itself? So the "invisible hand" will inherently guide business and corporations to do the right thing out of the kindness of their hearts?" -- No. The idea behind the free market is that, by acting in their own self-interests, businesses must also act in the interests of the consumers. Free market proponents believes that individuals are guided out of self-interest, not "the kindness of their hearts," and if you thought otherwise, then you don't understand the model you presume to criticize.
The "invisible hand" of the market is guiding Walmart pretty strongly, in fact. In this case, Walmart is responding to pressure from consumers to keep prices as low as possible, which manifests itself in draconian policies toward its own employees. If consumers refused to shop at Walmart until working conditions were ameliorated (even if this meant higher prices) do you really think Walmart would refuse to change its policies?
If Walmart's executives are treating their own employees unethically or illegally, then they should be punished. But if you're looking to find the underlying cause of the problem, you need look no further than the millions of consumers who pour billions of dollars into Walmart's coffers. The free market which you so malign is only a reflection of those consumers' desires and values: if consumers insist upon high-minded ethics from the businesses whose custom they frequent, then businesses will be pressured to respond accordingly; if consumers insist upon low prices at any cost, then expect businesses to cut ethical and legal corners.
Not even the staunchest free market proponent would insist that the free market model is free from defects, because like any economic model, it is subject to the flaws of human nature. But this is true of a centralized economic model as well; there is nothing inherently special in the idea of government regulatory control which makes it immune from the twin human diseases of greed and apathy toward our fellow human beings. - 5thdigg, on 11/08/2009, -8/+20You're absolutely right. If there were as much outrage over the peasant complex as there is about misinformed socialism, maybe things could actually change.
It's ironic that all republicans do is harp about personal freedoms, and enterprise, and pulling yourself up by the boostraps.... Yet who do they support? Huge corporations like walmart, which is known for destroying all competition because of the economies of scale. Soon, yes soon my friends *rubs hands* we can all work for walmart, and shop there too. Maybe walmart should open up apartment buildings so we can live and poop at the walmart also... - BlacklabelSAR, on 11/08/2009, -0/+11How is government interference helping walmart?
In the last decades government has facilitated the consolidation of corporate power. And for your "truly free market" to exist, there could be no taxes, tarriffs, preferential treatment, or subsidies.
Humans do not operate that way.
Allen Greenspan even admitted that he did not factor in human self-interest, which is why the deregulation of the banking and financial industries was such a mistake. - noumuon, on 11/08/2009, -0/+11"these prices are not because of anything shady there from an insanely advanced transportation and supply chain, low employee overhead, and high volume of traffic to Wal Mart. "
not necessarily. the low prices exist because walmart says they exist. companies have to bid to get on the shelves at walmart. if their prices are not what walmart wants and they're unable to change them, the company's product doesn't get on walmart's shelves. i think it was the brand rubber maid that practically went out of business a few years back because they thought they were big enough that they didn't have to acquiesce to walmart's pricing demands. walmart then went with someone who would agree to their price and rubber maid tanked. this forced rubber maid, and other companies that want to get onto walmart's shelves, to reduce the quality of their product to allow manufacturing to be below a certain cost.
there's a reason why "mom and pop stores" went out of business in droves when walmart started to get big. it's because of their strong hand tactics at keeping prices low. at a certain point, they became big enough that they no longer followed the market prices for a large number of items, they set the market prices, and many companies that produced goods failed because of walmart's hand in the system. the rather odd example of this is that walmart would set prices low. this, in turn, increases traffic volume and cements their position for keeping their business up. it is their strong arm tactics for keeping prices low that bring in the high volume of traffic, not a high volume of traffic that keeps volume low.
the whole notion that the "free market" is completely self regulatory is a naive myth. it's the reason that there are, at least, antitrust laws. these are regulations to keepe the market "free," but then it's not really a free market if it's regulated, is it? the reason there needs to be antitrust laws, is because the true nature of a free market always tends towards a group of monopolies. it's the natural inclination of markets. the market cannot regulate itself because certain practices disallow competition. a company like walmart has taken, to the greatest extent that it can, manipulation of the markets so that it remains the dominant company.
don't get me wrong, some of the positives about walmart that you state do exist, but to think that there aren't severe ethical negatives associated with the company is blatantly wrong. walmart is the reason we're so dependent on china for manufacturing of goods. it's a given that if it were not walmart, some other company would have eventually lead the way, but as it stands, it wasn't some other company, it was and is walmart. - Numbski, on 11/08/2009, -4/+15Plant!
Astroturf!
(sarcasm)
It has a lot to do with how much of a jerk your supervisor/manager is personally. I'm glad you had a good experience. Almost no one in retail walks away feeling that they were treated well. Retail is employment hell - at least in manual labor you feel satisfaction of a job well done. :P - Teej, on 11/08/2009, -0/+11craftyguy, some people would prefer to be working and getting income than not at all. Have you seen the job market recently?
- swoopdog, on 11/08/2009, -10/+21thank you
shop ethical and if not at least shop union, this company is a plague on our country! - rocknog, on 11/08/2009, -0/+10Even if H1N1 is just the flu, the flu in itself is pretty serious business, something which no one seems to understand. I think a large part of the problem is that most people don't really know the difference between a cold and a flu, so they get a particularly bad cold and assume that they've had the flu. I thought the same thing myself, honestly, until I actually got the flu back in college, and for a week, I could barely even get out of bed. I have never before or since experienced an illness that so thoroughly incapacitated me for so long. And yes, the regular flu is actually a lot deadlier than most people realize.
- vfred, on 11/08/2009, -0/+10Missed the sarcasm tag. But nice reply!
- Rantus, on 11/08/2009, -4/+13Wal-Mart is a scum-hole. All the stores around where I live are run-down *****. I do, however, occasionally go to them because they're the only place around here that sells Mobil-1 synthetic motor oil in 5 gallon containers. Bastards. But for all my regular groceries I go here:
http://wegmans.com
And no, I don't and never have worked for either of them. All that Wal-mart ***** about "remaining competitive" is just that: *****. Wegmans has competitive pricing, better quality, no self-checkout aisles (at all!) and they treat their employees very well. I'm tired of all this ***** about "lowest prices, always" crap; we're just letting them lower our standards of living and civility so they can be filthy stinking rich. The damage that Wal-mart has caused people's livelihoods is greater than any perceived benefits.
You get what you pay for. - AngryDeuce, on 11/08/2009, -1/+10See, that's the thing though. If I feel like ***** when I wake up, I take some nyquil, drink some fluids, and rest up. I could call my doctor and get an appointment for a visit in a month, or I could go to urgent care and pay out of pocket for a cold. They pretty much expected a doctor's note at Target if you were sick for one freaking day...c'mon now. How many people in this country run off to the doctor like the day they wake up feeling like garbage?
I can understand treating someone with suspicion if it's chronic, but I busted my ass in that place. Hell, if anything I was given more crap for missing a day then the *****, because Lord knows they were useless and couldn't be trusted to backstock a half a cart an hour, let alone do it correctly.. - publiclurker, on 11/08/2009, -1/+10The flue kills a lot of people every year. Just because the facts are too complicated for your feeble mind does not mean that your betters are being sanctimonious.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 11/08/2009, -0/+9There is no free market.
Suggesting that a free market is self-regulating is no different than suggesting that all people will behave ethically without laws, police, and punishment.
Without government regulation we would still have sweat shops and child labor. - Samurai77, on 11/08/2009, -4/+13How many times do I have to say it, DON'T SHOP AT WALMART.
We don't need a law to change this people need to be aware of their actions and not spend any money there. - andreo, on 11/08/2009, -0/+9I few years back I had a part time job at Pizza Hut to make some extra cash. My then GF's sister was the manager. I had been feeling pretty crappy for a day or so and headed to the doctor one morning. The doctor told me I had strep throat, gave me some antibiotics and sent me home.
I called my boss at my full time job and she wished me well and said she would see me after I was better. I called Pizza Hut and was told that it wasn't a big deal and I should come in to work my shift that night (I was a driver by the way). I didn't come in and quit a couple of days later.
The stupidity of the people in charge of those places are astounding. Not only could I have infected the staff at the store. But every person that I delivered a pizza to also.
The now ex-girlfriend wouldn't comment on the stupidity of her sister. - drakelord, on 11/08/2009, -1/+9I work at Target right now, and while they are fairly strict about their attendance policy, they will make exceptions. Best thing to do if the STL doesn't respond correctly is to talk to HR or call TMSC. They can set the issues straight if you have proper documentation.
- localzuk, on 11/08/2009, -3/+11No, H1N1 is not just the flu - it is a variety of flu that does a lot more damage in middle aged people than the normal flu - ie. the majority of the workforce.
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