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- Spuy767, on 12/16/2008, -36/+144I don't know if you recall our own Keynesian experiment during FDR's administration. ALl Public Works projects serve to do is create temporary jobs and delay the correction of the economy while putting the average tax payer deeper in debt. Stimulus spending is a huge pile of fail.
- cle2105, on 12/17/2008, -14/+90Alternative: Stop pissing away cash on the War on Drugs. Zero taxes on dividends and capital gains to encourage investment in US businesses
- ileftfark, on 12/17/2008, -1/+52Without expounding upon the intricacies of macroeconomics, wouldn't common sense dictate that pouring billions and billions of dollars into companies that are using broken business models is probably not a great idea?
- PeppermintPig, on 12/17/2008, -10/+52Central control of the economy is absurd on its face. You cannot, nor should you be making broad-sweeping decisions in lieu of individual actors in the marketplace, who are better suited to determine RISK and therefore seek greater VALUE. You cannot create money out of thin air and expect people to gain faith in the system. That is a fraud, and you only need to look at the act of bailing something out to show that there is something terribly wrong going on with these 'financial' institutions. It's fraud.
- StingingNettle, on 12/17/2008, -5/+43"It’s like if we pour enough concrete, and then everything will turn out all right. Somebody ought to ask the Japanese about that. They all but paved the island of Honshu in the 1990s, and still lived through a stagnating era."
http://www.whiskeyandgunpowder.com/falling-prices- ... - inactive, on 12/17/2008, -5/+36What happens when you keep picking at a healing wound? It never heals, oh it's irritating as hell while it's healing, but if you leave it alone it will heal on it's own. Best of all, you probably learned something when you got hurt. That's our economy, and the government won't stop picking at it, won't leave it alone. They keep picking at it, scratching it, digging at it, and they're making it worse. In fact, it's becoming infected. Let companies fail, let the banks fail, that is what bankruptcy laws are for. If you don't nobody is going to learn anything except that if you ***** up, the government will bet there to save your ass. Holy crap this is stupid.
- lilamae, on 12/17/2008, -11/+42"Ordering new equipment creates tens of thousands of new jobs or buy a new flat screen tv for every household in the country."
You can only create manufacturing jobs in the U.S. by buying products that are made here or made by foreign companies that produce their products here. An example of this is auto manufacturing. There are few manufacturing jobs left in America following NAFTA and globalism and U.S. corporation job exportation.
Lower corporate taxes. Cut red tape. Don't encourage labor unions to occupy American manufacturing firms. There are laws on the books to protect American workers from corporate abuse if we demand they be followed. Encourage U.S. companies to bring jobs home to U.S. from Asia and Europe and South America. - dagnome1984, on 12/17/2008, -6/+37The failure of Keynesian economics? You don't say?
- GeorgeTirebiter, on 12/17/2008, -5/+28If spending is the way to prosperity, then I will gather as many credit cards as I can and max them all out. Hey, that is considered being victimized these days, anyway--I don't have to worry about paying anything back!. The change is coming!
- inactive, on 12/17/2008, -2/+24I would also like to add - F the finance industry and their bailout! - no one bailed out the dotcomms back in 2000 when the technology sector contracted. No one even mentioned it.
The technology sector ends recessions. - durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -5/+27
"The bridge catastrophically failed during the evening rush hour on August 1, 2007"
Yeah, that's what happens when you fail to keep up your infrastructure after 70 years.
So what was your point exactly? That somehow it was built so badly that it only lasted 70 years of neglect? - emazur, on 12/17/2008, -10/+31"The money that the government spends has to come from somewhere, which means from the private economy in higher taxes or borrowing."
Or from the inflation tax from the printing press -
"By a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved,
an important part of the wealth of their citizens" -John Maynard Keynes
"We make money the old fashioned way. We print it."
– Art Rolnick, Chief Economist for the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank
Keynsesians, we're not gonna fall for your propaganda any longer!
direct propaganda link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Dzdc1H0wM
story on digg: (I submitted 2 days ago, don't digg if you don't like me "advertising")
http://digg.com/business_finance/1933_Keynesian_pr ... - inactive, on 12/17/2008, -3/+24@haterrade:
Tax cuts is only one side of the equation.
Without spending cuts, tax cuts are meaningless - it's like taking up a lower paying job but continuing the old spending habits.
Negative cash flow. Dig? - haterrade, on 12/17/2008, -9/+28..yet here we are in 2008, with the same tax cuts, in a much worse situation
Logic fail - durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -9/+28"ALl Public Works projects serve to do is create temporary jobs"
Oh, and uh, built the highway system. - StingingNettle, on 12/17/2008, -3/+20Pretty soon we will all be employed by the government.
We at least had some savings and a strong manufacturing complex back then. What do we have now? - blorc, on 12/17/2008, -7/+23Oh teach us, mighty tweetsa, about your magnificent economic insights.
Sounds to me like you're just full of hot air. - sulthernao, on 12/17/2008, -1/+16The government shouldn't do anything at all. This recession is a corrective force against the speculation and excess of over expansion of the housing sector. I mean how exactly can you fix it other than waiting it out? There will be increased unemployment and poverty but we will be getting rid of the inefficiencies of our economy and our economy will be stronger for it. It is hardly a national security issue (everyone else is in a recession too). Government intervention won't do anything except prolong the inevitable. That is unless we are talking about huge social programs that would be detrimental in the long term to our economic viability.
- omgwtflawl, on 12/17/2008, -9/+24Don't stop there: zero taxes on personal income as well. Make social security and medicare optional programs. Attract the smartest brains to the US, and open up the borders. We'd blow the top off the economy if a leader would step up and make these changes. Instead, we have idiots like Ocain and Mcbama who never saw a regulation they didn't like and love manipulating the economy like they are playing a video game. Its disgusting.
- toxicshok, on 12/17/2008, -4/+19How is that taking the government out of the economy? It wasn't deregulation it was a tax cut that only temporarily pulled us out the recession. We were bound to fall back into it, and we did.
- bobjrn2, on 12/17/2008, -3/+17I hope our new president can focus more on program reform than program stimulus.
- jmark13, on 12/17/2008, -5/+19What we have to understand in this country is that this is a part of a class war. It is a war on your mind, not money. Very few people are winning. We have to understand that this is a war of psychology. The supply of money is being controlled and distributed with extreme disproportion and nearly unrelated to actual equity. We have to see the resources we have around us. To "invest in Gold" and to see the world as commodity based is only to look around your room/house/apartment to see what you have. Figure out what has real value to you and trade the rest for other things that have more value to you. Money is a medium of exchange, nothing more. Use Craigslist, freecycle, barter and build an empire of happiness independent of money. I've studied enough of game theory, prospect theory, etc to know that economics is essentially just a language of jargon used to make others less disciplined in the subject to feel inferior and poor. Be rich. Own what you have. Own your skill. Own your happiness, do not lose the psychological war of money. Just because the economy falls around us does not mean people have to fall with it.
- indyattic, on 12/17/2008, -3/+16The first highway was a private road. The federal highway system was built only because the auto industry lobbied extensively for it - they wanted to sell automobiles but they didn't want to pay for roads to drive on. If the government had stayed out of the road business, we likely wouldn't be nearly as dependent on foreign oil as we are today, because the nations transportation would have developed in response to need instead of want.
- Frnnkdlxx, on 12/17/2008, -4/+17Which is why we were supposed to follow Mises' economic standard.
- drdan, on 12/17/2008, -5/+18No the free market works every time it is tried. Deregulation was just the term for different regulation. Subprime loans because everyone should be home owner, even if they didn't have the income to support it. Freddy and Fannie both government entities.
So the way we fix this is by letting the same failed concepts dictate our course. Tax cut will work as long a government curtails spending - inactive, on 12/17/2008, -11/+23The US became a superpower *despite* Hoover, *despite* Roosevelt, *despite* WW2, and not because of them.
How is it that these idiot pundits on TV never ask if any of the corporations being bailed out are too big to save?? - PeppermintPig, on 12/17/2008, -4/+16Without a stable currency, we will not have a stable economy. People desire to retain and grow their wealth. The FRN is sucking the lifeblood out of the economy through manipulation of interest rates and increasing 'credit' with no apparent rule to govern why it should be created, or to whom the money goes first.
It might sound crazy now, but people should give the possibility that the powers that be will promote a new currency some serious thought. And no, a new fiat currency will not fix things. - TomK88, on 12/17/2008, -2/+14The tax cuts weren't the problem. Not saying they're the solution but one of the most successful ways to stimulate an economy throughout history has been tax cuts.
- logandurand, on 12/17/2008, -6/+18Or they're just sick of seeing the damage of inflationary monetary policy.
- toxicshok, on 12/17/2008, -0/+11God, cause we spend NO money on the military. Indeed our military langishes as they are unable to purchase even the most basic weapons
- inactive, on 12/17/2008, -0/+11low corporate taxes keep businesses in north america. all taxes should be at the sales tax level because greedy politicians quadruple and quintuple your taxes by hiding them under corporate taxes, payroll taxes etc etc. Companies pass these taxes on to you and you have no idea what the government is scamming from you. Get rid of corporate taxes and alll the other hidden taxes and put them up front in sales taxes where everybody can see how much they're being screwed.
- Arkons24, on 12/17/2008, -0/+11The government baked a moral hazard cake with artery clogging ingredients such as negative real interest rates, excess liquidity and aggregate demand "stimulus". And people wonder why we are having catastrophic and systemic failure. Treasury yields have been negative in the past couple weeks and these ***** think we need to keep artificially pumping liquidity into the system. It's like telling a quadruple bypass patient that the best way for him to keep from having another heart attack is to eat 10 times as much red meat and drink 10 times as much alcohol and his doctor is going to be the one pumping the ***** into his I.V.
- rotundo, on 12/17/2008, -3/+13@omgwtflawl - Yeah, because if a private corp did it there would be no such problems. Oh wait... there's plenty of examples around the globe of such projects being poorly executed by private corps. And also the fact that without the government doing or funding such projects, they simply won't happen: no corp can afford to think that long term.
Face it: the government is useful. If you don't think so, there are plenty of places with virtually no government where you can live, right? - logandurand, on 12/17/2008, -3/+13"Rampant deregulation" is an easy thing to attack, but government intervention was present at every level of the crisis. As you said, you can't try and "fix" the economy; by its very nature it must solve its own problems.
- inactive, on 12/17/2008, -0/+10May be we should also acknowledge that in the 90s the Japanese savings rate was between 10 and 16 percent; their people were not drowning in debt like us during their lost decade.
- synapz, on 12/17/2008, -3/+13Let's see... Paul Krugman, an economist famous for winning the "Nobel Prize in Economics", or, more officially, "The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel". Sveriges Riksbank? What's that? Oh, it's the central bank of Sweden. Wait, isn't a central banking system one of the prerequisites for applying Keynesian economics? Why, yes, it is. Of course, they wouldn't give him the award and make him look all official-like just for supporting their livelihood, right? Nooo....
/s - StopTheLie, on 12/17/2008, -3/+13...they're going to do it because they can. Take away their power to create limitless piles of money (through the Federal Reserve System) and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Don't understand "The Fed?" (...Its history, how it came to be, how monetary inflation destroys your purchasing power, creates bubbles and inevitable "bursts...") There is a short / free book on the topic available at http://MeetTheSystem.org - fabkebab, on 12/17/2008, -1/+10the reality is that the existing government has been doing all this keynsian stuff - its just Iraqi roads they have been rebuilding (then bombing, then rebuilding) rather than American ones
- toxicshok, on 12/17/2008, -0/+9Good idea but it will never happen. The Right hates the first part and the Left hates the second.
- PeppermintPig, on 12/17/2008, -2/+11Please, don't give up just yet. I mean, sure, you ought to start looking at signs of insanity where people in power continue to repeat these actions while seeing the same failed results, but that's not a reason to say it's unpredictable.
People have tried to predict the market, even to the extent of building complex computer models. Their predictions were almost invariably skewed by the arbitrary actions of the Federal Reserve to adjust rates and pump funny money into the marketplace, as well as heavy handed regulation by the government in association with corporate cronies.
Does this mean we can't predict anything? Not at all... but there is no 'magic bullet' of business: You still need to learn how to work the market as an entrepreneur and innovator. The Austrian School of economics takes into consideration human behavior and has demonstrated certain tendencies and principles which you can use to encourage the growth of wealth. You can predict that people will act in their self interest, even if said actions lead to 'charitable' works. People tend to want to improve their state of being.
Sometimes it's better to reference experts:
http://mises.org/ - inactive, on 12/17/2008, -10/+19FDR's policies hindered any recovery for 14 years. Over regulation caused much of this recession. Cut government spending and cut taxes on businesses. Keeping business in north america, keeps jobs in north america. The deficit must be as high as it's ever been as a percentage of gdp. Do you think obumhole, the communist, will stop spending like crazy. He'll have this economy ***** worse than japan and worse than jimma cata.
- synapz, on 12/17/2008, -0/+9Incorrect. Ultimately, any free market trade takes place between two consenting individuals. When these individuals trade their goods, wealth is produced because each value their new goods more than their old. There is no way to improve upon this by forcing people to either not make the trade, or to make a different trade, which is all government can do: force people to do something they don't want to do.
- DarthMonkey, on 12/17/2008, -1/+10The only useful piece of information in this fluff piece comes at the end: "...force banks to acknowledge their bad debts, did the economy recover". Any smart business person (like myself) will know that this is the key to recovery, and Japan's incestuous banking system did not learn this lesson until the end of the 90's. US banks have been writing off bad debt since this crisis began. We're fine.
- PeppermintPig, on 12/17/2008, -0/+9There are many warning signs... Government employment is a good barometer.. I also like to cite the percentage of government commercials or PSA's on TV.
- indyattic, on 12/17/2008, -2/+10Steady inflation does not work! It allows the rich to get richer and makes the poor poorer.
- PeppermintPig, on 12/17/2008, -0/+8Individuals make decisions. Groups are merely collections of individuals. So it should logically resolve that individuals should be free to make decisions, correct?
The market is individuals. Some people are better than others at determining risk, but those who choose correctly can profit and show the way for others to do the same. It's not as if there's no rhyme or reason to things. You want good service and good products. Virtually everyone else wants the same general thing, even though their particular needs may vary.
Voluntary association works fine. Government is yet still a group of individuals.. so the question is, why is government somehow superior at making regulatory decisions?? Punitive equality is not, nor will it ever be true equality. Encouraging others to act in ways you find pleasing is what it's about. Create incentives. Wealth is not a limited commodity: You and your friend can exchange goods and both benefit from the experience... else you wouldn't do it. - NorthMass, on 12/17/2008, -2/+10Keynesian economics = epic fail
- mattes5, on 12/17/2008, -1/+9If inflation works why did the 70's see a period of downturn? Also this crazy notion that Keyensians have that saving are detrimental to the economy is ridiculous. To believe this you have to assume that money is not a commodity as in it doesn't change in value. Which isn't true, if majority of people save their money instead of spend then the value of the money increases due to less supply. So the truth is the size of the money supply is irrelevant due to the value being volatile. Also to believe that saving is bad is to assume that people saving never intend on spending the money, which isn't true. When most saving occurs it is saved for some purchase, or rainy day savings. Either way the money is intended to be spent by the saver at some time. Which is why Keyensianism has downfalls because it doesn't factor in time. The war on savings through low central bank lending rates and income taxes have caused the down fall of our economy. So anyone who advocates these policies are either A) ignorant or B) willingly misleading the public.
- logandurand, on 12/17/2008, -3/+11Even the sweatshop jobs we so abhor are better than the jobs the poor would otherwise have without free trade. The economy is not a zero-sum game; everyone can benefit if we don't play favorites.
- inactive, on 12/17/2008, -14/+21The Japanese and US economies are fundamentally different; their business practices are much more monopolistic.
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