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195 Comments
- BorsKaegel, on 06/08/2009, -4/+87Who else thinks Fiat will now back out and Chrysler will get sold to a Chinese investor who 'declines to be named'?
- JediPii, on 06/08/2009, -6/+66I, for one, welcome our new Supreme Court overlords, and their new-found interest in upholding the rule of law!
- deema1, on 06/09/2009, -7/+52This case is critical for the sake of our country's future. If the Supreme Court allows the Chrysler/Fiat sale to proceed, and ignores the rights of the senior secured lenders, then you can kiss property rights in America good-bye. Not only will it destroy corporate lending in the private sector, leaving the government as the only true remaining lender of capital, but it throws the entire notion of private property into question. If the government has the authority to take what it wants, when it wants, for the price it wants, for whom it wants, then it has the right to confiscate your house, business, car, and all your belongings for pennies on the dollar, for the benefit of the collective.
- ImTheDewd, on 06/09/2009, -10/+54<sarcasm>
How dare the SCOTUS uphold the law and enforce perfectly valid and legal contracts! Don't they know that Obama promised us change?
</sarcasm> - mattmollysdad, on 06/08/2009, -8/+46Ginsburg stood up to Obama, unreal. He's going to be pissed.
- gmoomaw, on 06/08/2009, -7/+43The GOP just wants Obama to fail! They're obstructing him!!!
oh wait...... - dherman, on 06/09/2009, -19/+50This is about redistribution of wealth... Obama is SCREWING the private investors who have SECURED credit and rewarding the unsecured investors with a larger payout. A Secured investor should be getting the biggest payout..
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -5/+31@comofo
I'll never understand why you think the UAW is about worker rights. The UAW is a company with over $2B in assets and it's own private golf course. - thegrantman, on 06/09/2009, -5/+26This may be the first of many suits. If GM rolls out their new line and it doesn't sell, the government will undoubtedly put an extraordinary amount of money into advertising, offer discounts, and extend warranties. This is what any company would do but the difference is that: 1. the government has more money and 2. that the money, in part, came from the taxes of GM's competitors.An argument could be made that this is an unfair trade practice.Seems like a stretch? Imagine if they offered tax breaks or other incentives on electric cars provided they met conditions that only GM seems to be able to comply with.
- Bloodwine, on 06/09/2009, -3/+23So basically Obama's administration zerged through the Chrysler bankruptcy, which only happened so fast because they were bullying the secured investors so that they wouldn't slow down the bankruptcy. Now, right before it is about over, the investors come out of their daze and say, "Now wait a damn minute, you thugs!".
I hope Chrysler is saved and doesn't end up in the hands of Chinese investors, but the government can't just change the rules willy nilly. Also, we're talking about pension funds here, not evil monocled men hanging out at the gentlemen's club smoking cigars in the sauna.
Hopefully the GM bankruptcy isn't as much of an abomination. - TheSwashbuckler, on 06/09/2009, -2/+20Geesh, it wasn't the court, it was Ginsberg. And the sale hasn't been "halted" (at least not yet), it's been put on hold. Whoever wrote that headline for AOL needs to find a new job...
- nismerf, on 06/09/2009, -2/+20Well the US government already can confiscate many of those things, just not so blatantly.
- mollydog12, on 06/09/2009, -4/+21the country is doomed if we allow the executive branch to violate the law.
- thinkb4utype, on 06/09/2009, -1/+17Saving the tax payer the $4 billlion we were paying Fiat to take it off our hands.
- Bagos1, on 06/09/2009, -0/+15Over 15 million cars were made last year in the US. 6 million were made by non-US car makers.....and they seem to be doing fine.
There is a place for US car manufacturing, just not done the way it has been done via the Big Three.
Somebody will buy these assets and turn them around, and they will employ Americans. - quentinp, on 06/09/2009, -2/+16And how do you think the government having the ability to randomly pull the money out from under secured creditors whenever it is politcally expedient going to help the credit crunch? The government's actions would've undermined the foundation of the credit system. Do you not see this?
- mollydog12, on 06/09/2009, -4/+18this is the best news since the election. this could be a game changer. imagine, the administration constrained by the law, reined in by the final word on the constitution.
- phydeaux70, on 06/09/2009, -1/+15@Perleeeze
"The "secured" investors gambled and lost. Crying over spilt milk and yearning for economic conditions that just do not exist is a waste of everyone's energy."
So what about the unsecured debt holders? You apparently don't seem to understand that secure debtors are to get paid before the unsecured, yet Obama and his adminstration has worked out a sweet deal for the unions and belittled the secured debtors for not taking .39 on every $1 of debt they hold. Go and study economics and get off of digg.
What is happening is that the sale is being stopped because they would load all of Chryslers good assets to a new company while leaving the old company with wasted assets worth nothing, thus allowing the sale of them for next to nothing and screwing the secured debtors. While the union and their unsecured debts goes on a business as usual. - inactive, on 06/09/2009, -3/+16There is an absolute ZERO chance that I will EVER purchase a GM or Chrysler product, other than through the normal course of Barry bidness as a taxpayer (aka sucker).
- thegrantman, on 06/09/2009, -0/+13If you think Fiat will pull out over a few weeks extension you're sadly mistaken. They're willing to make the biggest purchase in the companys' history yet willing to throw it all away over a few weeks? This is spin brought to you by Team Obama. Everything they do is rushed and issued with warnings against interference.
- neilschelly, on 06/09/2009, -5/+17An easier example is the income tax. Money is property just like any other. They're taking your property at gunpoint; try not paying them if you disagree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_and_Elaine_Bro ...
-N - Tecton1c, on 06/09/2009, -2/+14The real amazing thing here is that the government has anything to do with who a company sells its shares to. This should have never happened in the first place. It's a sad day when the court decides who you can and cannot sell to, although in this particular situation I agree it ought to be done to some extent.
- mollydog12, on 06/09/2009, -0/+12chrysler and gm are already down the drain. what's your definition ?
- mollydog12, on 06/09/2009, -3/+15no.an activist judge attempts to make law, which is not the function of the judicial branch. ginsberg is simply trying to create space so the law can be considered.
she, unlike our elected officials who passed the stimulus bill without reading it, apparently would like time to review the filings. - Moralogic, on 06/09/2009, -3/+15@comofo
Unions are only based off of greed in today's world, not worker rights.
- Retirement plans second to none, especially given skills and education.
- Workman's comp. second to none. (and for BS "injuries")
- Overpaid employees for what little skills and educations they have.
- Low work hours though paid if they worked full time or more. (I know a guy who was working 8 hours a week and made $75,000 a year.)
- The union employees are limited to their work area even to other mindless basic tasks that anyone can do. ("Not my area, not my job, even though I have been sitting on my ass for 3 days doing nothing." That is great for business efficiency.)
With 40-hour work week, overtime, child labor prevention and improved working conditions are now common place and laws because of organized labor’s work in decades past, unions have outlived their usefulness. Unions are desperately trying to stay relevant in an economy that no longer needs them. With robotic technology, the need of unskilled employees is nearly non-existent. Unions are not only a obstacle for business efficiency, but a key reason on why end product pricing is so high. The cost of living for union workers would even go down if unions ceased to exist in the US. Plus, high pay of union workers is one of the main reasons jobs are going over seas. - inactive, on 06/09/2009, -2/+13B-bye!
- IKORKYI, on 06/09/2009, -5/+16@ comofo
the group of individuals are walking all over the company. they're not entitled to owning a house, owning a brand new car, or sending their kids to college. you're a factory line worker, maybe you should have thought twice about your life and went to college on near 100% loans like everyone else. why did i put thousands of hours into my education if i was owed these things anyway? - blapierre, on 06/09/2009, -1/+12No, Chrysler still has assets and they are being sold to Fiat for cheap. The whole bankruptcy is just a way of getting around having to pay for Chrysler's liabilities while keeping all of its assets.
- VanillaBabies, on 06/09/2009, -3/+14You're several years too late on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_L ... - inactive, on 06/09/2009, -0/+11"...the sale unfairly favors Chrysler's unsecured stakeholders such as the union ahead of secured debtholders like themselves."
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Who in the right mind is going to buy U.S. companies' bonds knowing that the gubmint can render the bonds worthless? - s14sh3r, on 06/09/2009, -0/+11Good, that's as it should be. If a company fails, it ceases to exist and another one steps in its place. Hopefully the next company will be better managed.
- simbait, on 06/09/2009, -0/+10Fiat has decided not to walk away even if the 15 June deadline is not met:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8090438.stm - rolf, on 06/09/2009, -1/+11Bring the lemon law of your state against the dealer who sold it to you, find out if he operates any other franchises. Not just chrysler.
- govsucks, on 06/09/2009, -3/+12Don't give this woman too much credit. The logical ruling would have been against the Obama Admin in this case. They need to pay the secure investors exactly what they are due then they can do what they want with what is left over. She should not have referred this to the other members of the court, she should have upheld these peoples contracts, period. Anything less would be a absolute violation of the law by government. Not like that is anything new though.
- mollydog12, on 06/09/2009, -1/+10i'll never knowingly buy a gm or chrysler product again. too bad. i love my pt cruiser.
does that make me a pussy. i mean i got the turbo charged engine and the "sport" package. - cowninja, on 06/09/2009, -0/+9Ford didn't accept bailout money. They restructured a few years ago to prevent the same fate as their competitors.
- bigterguy, on 06/09/2009, -3/+11Ginsburg didn't like Obama's speech in Cairo, essentially calling out the Israelis as aggressors.
- deema1, on 06/09/2009, -0/+8This claim doesn't have anything to do with jobs. It has to do with the fact that Indiana pension funds invested firefighter, police, teacher, and other worker's funds in Chrysler corporate bonds because they're a safer investment that provides greater protection in the event of a bankruptcy. They pay more, and they receive lower interest rates, for that protection. The government simply removed their senior creditor status and told them they were moved from the top to the bottom of the asset priority list, giving them only $0.28 for every dollar they invested instead of a return somewhere in the range of $0.75 - $1.00 for every investment dollar.
- noblepaladin, on 06/09/2009, -1/+8If secured creditors get nothing, then the UAW should get even less since they are unsecured creditors. We have Welfare, medicare, medicaid, and the PBGC. They can fund the laid off UAW and the UAW retirees at low cost. However, for some reason the administation decided that the UAW should be treated better than other Americans and their health care and pensions should be left intact at the expense of the taxpayer.
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -0/+7Do you really think that nobody else in the entire world would want to own Chrysler's assets? Really?
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -0/+7Hope and Change brought us here -- or in other words -- 30+ years of people not knowing anything about their own government and losing the common sense that would have stopped the cult of personality in its tracks.
- IKORKYI, on 06/09/2009, -1/+8i had a lemon vehicle from chrysler and ever since they went bankrupt its impossible to put in a claim for the lemon law. they had initially offered a full buy back but retracted when the paper work wasn't complete before the bankruptcy. now, they are offering me $2000 dollars to drive around in a wrangler that leaks water out of every crack in the vehicle because they know now they cannot be sued... ***** EM.
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -1/+8What is this strange new world where the government doesn't get to run roughshod over everyone in the name of vague mantras?
- inactive, on 06/09/2009, -5/+12"The crux of the problem is the credit crunch, which was caused by the unregulated banks creating an unsustainable housing bubble. Until Wall Street is restructured and investors regain confidence again in the car industry, and the housing market lifts and unemployment reduces, there is no car industry"
lol, Read that back. It doesn't even make sense. Yet, here it is, all the Democrat talking points/accusations strung together into a single 2 sentences.
You forgot one meme; we must reduce health care costs by increasing taxes thereby getting people more money to buy cars. - vuke69, on 06/09/2009, -0/+7@TheEggAndI
They as a person are not worth less, but their labor certainly is worth less. - LordRedSnake, on 06/09/2009, -1/+8I support my country first. My president is a civil servant. His job is to serve the country and its interests, not to subvert the laws of the country to reward a single group (UAW). A patriot would make their voice heard so that the president respects the responsibilities of the office he holds.
- FortyCaliber, on 06/09/2009, -0/+7Chev[rolet] and Dodge aren't companies, their brands: Dodge belongs to Chrysler LLC along with Jeep and Chrysler and Chevrolet belongs to General Motors Corporation.
Ford @ $6.36/share <--- no bailout
Chrysler@ NPT <--- privately held
GM @ $1.44/share <--- bailout
as of 7:00am - JAHred, on 06/09/2009, -1/+7"Almost all the stakeholders support the deal" because they have either
1) Been given billions in TARP and are too big to fail anyways
2) Aren't first in line for someone else's money.
There is no reason the union should get just as good a deal, if not better thana bondholder - Ineedanap, on 06/09/2009, -1/+7Getting paid to take a company who has been completely restructured, had most of its obligations removed, had its unions nearly broken, and has as least the 2nd if not the 1st most popular off-roading brand in the world, doesn't seem like such a bad deal to me.
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