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- commenter01, on 05/18/2009, -2/+13Just imagine, your grammar nazi comment would have been much better if you had bothered to spell Notre Dame correctly.
- ayeroxor, on 05/18/2009, -7/+17Just imagine, a world full of grown adults who graduate from Norte Dame and still have no idea when to use its or it's!
- moantauk, on 05/18/2009, -2/+11As a extremely unmotivated and lazy pre-law student, I am perfectly fine with this.
- yerdaddy, on 05/18/2009, -1/+9Most lawyers I know would love to be paid for nothing.
- mattmollysdad, on 05/18/2009, -15/+22Just as Mainland China had more than one "lost generation" due to the Cultural Revolution, it looks like America is going to produce it's equivalent. Kids graduating this year and possibly in the next three to four years are going to have to start, stop, and start their careers again and again. It sucks. Too bad President Obama is only interested in shovel ready jobs that will probably go to illegals or overpaid union types while kids like he the ones he spoke to today at Norte Dame r really going to get screwed the most.
- SamSks, on 05/18/2009, -2/+9Run for office in 2010 with the campaign slogan: "I need a job!"
You'll get elected because that will be the most honest thing that has ever come out of a politician's mouth ever. - lacrimosa2008, on 05/18/2009, -0/+6congrats on that...honestly.
- jnorris441, on 05/18/2009, -0/+6that is "not" how you use quotes
- borez, on 05/18/2009, -0/+6it was a joke... honestly.
- nebbo, on 05/18/2009, -0/+6This is like the buyout deals at the auto plants. It is a sign you need to take the money and run before they drop you with no money.
- AlanLivingston, on 05/18/2009, -1/+6It would have been better if he had typed "should of went".
- borez, on 05/18/2009, -2/+7I'm a newly graduated lawyer... honestly.
- Suzilla, on 05/18/2009, -2/+6Maybe they can volunteer as English (grammar, spelling) tutors. Many are in need of it these days.
- CeruleanRed, on 05/18/2009, -0/+4Lazy pre-law student might not get into a good law-school.
- lacrimosa2008, on 05/18/2009, -1/+4"Most lawyers would rather be doing something else“
“Lawyers dream about escaping, preferably with the money."
- John Grisham
A good start, I would say. - inactive, on 05/18/2009, -2/+5a world full of people who graduated from Norte Dame would be called an alternate dimension where the French say Norte instead of Notre. I wonder if the Spaniards call north "Notre"?
- Makisupa, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3Advice - there are 10, maybe 14, schools worth paying full tuition at. Nail your LSAT and have a high GPA. Don't major in pre-law or criminology. Generally schools don't care about your major, but get too fluffy and they will (except for Boalt).
Look at NALP's bi-modal study. A select % make 160k+bonus to start, the majority make less than 55k, and a large portion never even work in law. - commenter01, on 05/18/2009, -1/+4in spanish, North is Norte. Notre in French means "our"... i.e., Notre Dame = Our lady.
- SamSks, on 05/18/2009, -2/+5This was in the Wall Street Journal two weeks ago!
- fiatjustitia, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3anything with criminal law is usually stable. Your local District Attorney and Public Defender is always looking for interns. They *love* law students because they'll do all the grunt work without pay, and then later on, they have a shot at a job after interning.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 05/19/2009, -1/+4We have all these lawyers that are making the big bucks. That money is coming from everyone who is not a lawyer (i.e. us) in the form of legal bills or tax money. Why do we need to pay these lawyers so much money? To increase the chances of defeating other lawyers in a courtroom.
Our entire legal system is based on the idea that whoever can hire the best lawyers (i.e. the ones that can also demand the most money), can get away with the most "illegal" stuff.
I would rather this country have far fewer lawyers. Lawyers do not produce anything in our economy. They are people who know the ins and outs of our ridiculously complex and unfair legal system. They are a necessary evil. They are parasites. Our society would be better off with a simpler legal system without all the loopholes and intricacies that are only available to the wealthy and well connected.
All these bright minds should be becoming doctors and engineers, rather than lawyers. - Makisupa, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3Litigation associates to smaller firms. Corp associates to smaller firms, in-house counsel, or finance.
- LordVance, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3there's potential to make millions in lots of different trades, it's all about the average - not the high end potential. The average criminal defense lawyer is going to make less than the average for many other specialties.
- Rothbardosaurus, on 05/19/2009, -0/+3Any field where people are getting paid not to work is not suffering from a "recession." Lawyers are just barnacles on the bloated syphilitic whale of a legal system we have.
The US has about 5% of the world's population, and over half of the world's lawyers. - jellygraph, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3there are enough lawyers in this world. perhaps its time the law of supply and demand start trimming some of them away or at least commoditize their industry to standard wages
- LordVance, on 05/18/2009, -0/+3http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_% ...
The average isn't nearly as high as most people seem to think compared to other working graduate programs. - Dasein, on 05/18/2009, -0/+2Why would you pay for nothing? At least get an agreement, will, lawsuit, etc. for your money.
- TheBifman, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3My advice if you want to get into a top law school:
Yes, work your ass off 24/7
No, don't major in "pre-law" - seanjohntx, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2If you're fortunate enough to even get one of those jobs as an associate. The people that get those jobs is a very small percentage of the graduates every year.
- Barackalypse, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2Then they hate them even more. Familiarity breeds contempt.
- TheBifman, on 05/18/2009, -0/+2companies that could care less about what they're getting for their money?
My life would have been a hell of a lot easier the past year if that was the case
You apparently don't know much about biglaw hiring practices... - eryximachus, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2There is a simple solution. Separation of powers must be permanent and for life. Ever work as a lawyer or for a law firm? You are restricted to the judicial branch of the government forever.
They are parasites, but only because idiots elect lawyers as legislatures and presidents. Is it any surprise they enrich themselves? - tenth8sphere, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3Everyone hates lawyers until they need one. You know, for pesky things like constitutional rights, contract enforcement, and navigating a criminal defense.
- Pinkertinkle, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3So I understand that after graduation those lucky enough go onto big firms and try to jockey their way for some number of years into becoming a partner. But what happens to lawyers that don't make partner? What's their long term outlook?
- passedoutghost, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2In law it doesn't matter how old you are, it's the experience that counts. Law firms are probably willing to hire an older legal practitioner with many years of experience over one that has just graduated and has little to none. Law firms would only hire graduates to do the grunt work. As it happens since there doesn't seem to be many cases at the moment, there's less grunt work to be done.
- m3arvk, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3And what are your job prospects looking like?
- IndigoChill, on 05/18/2009, -1/+3Well, I guess if they want to pay people to do nothing, that's their decision. Personally, I would just keep in touch with the graduates in the hope they'd be willing to work for my (hypothetical) firm down the road (for the right price, of course). I think if recent grads are willing to go through less conventional ways (private practice, for instance), they will probably be better off in the long run than if they work for companies that could care less about what they're getting for their money.
- Makisupa, on 05/19/2009, -0/+2Depends where they go, which depends on what firm they were at.
- tenth8sphere, on 05/19/2009, -0/+1The Tax Code is one example where the law could be much more simple. But it's also not a place where attorney's have that much involvement. Laws in society are invariably complex because of the complexity of possible situations leading to a problem - and the high number of possible ways of solving them. You either codify your law (through numerous and intricate laws like we have) or you vest broad powers in decision makers (let judges do whatever they want, whenever they want). Neither solves the problem, but at least massive amounts of law mean you won't have new rules applied to you on a whim.
Try crafting a simplified set of rules for some legal problem - its a lot more trouble than most people think it is - and you have to account for proper procedure as well. You won't find a single "advanced" society without some form of those two options.
Lastly, people who hate lawyers (and I mean really hate, not just make fun of) are practicing the ultimate in irresponsibility. No lawyer brings a suit. He brings it on BEHALF of a client. Always. Period. Lawyers meet demand of society just like plastic surgeons. America's problems do not rest in lawyers, who 99/100 are simply acting as a ZEALOUS ADVOCATE (and again, you wouldn't want to live in a country where you did not get an advocate who understood the law and acted on your behalf) for clients who are choosing to bring the suits. - zaferk, on 05/19/2009, -0/+1What does that large portion even do?
FYI im in Canada - ReidFleming, on 05/18/2009, -0/+1Word.
http://www.photobasement.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... - Rickets187, on 05/18/2009, -0/+1If you don't want to work long hours then don't sign up. There are firms that don't work their staff hard but, certainly here in London, they are few a far between and pay a hell of a lot less.
Keep billing those hours bitches! - zdwade, on 05/19/2009, -1/+2mayb they should make the laws simple and have a clearer syntax. plus they should stop using latin words, that would be a big help. after that i dont think you would need lawyers all that much. ie why do we need a 700 page tax code.
- Pinkertinkle, on 05/18/2009, -0/+1How much money do they make doing that?
- ayeroxor, on 05/19/2009, -0/+1Just imagine, your grammar nazi whining comment would have been much better if you noticed the original post misspelled Notre and I was making fun of it.
- Griff7272, on 05/20/2009, -0/+1"Within two hours of his arrest, Martin McFly Jr. was tried, convicted and sentenced to fifteen years in the state penetentary."? Within two hours?
The justice system works swiftly in the future now that they've abolished all lawyers! - looopy, on 05/19/2009, -0/+1most people i know would love to be paid for nothing
- lightningrod220, on 05/18/2009, -1/+2How about laying off the low performers and the older employees? They're not really raking in the dough, but a young, single lawyer - especially a nerdy one with no life - would really love to cut their teeth and get in the game fast. They're a good deal because they have more energy and haven't had their spirits broken yet. They've got student loans to pay off, so they're ready to take on anything.
Compare that to entrenched associates/partners, who have "their way" of doing things, and are unwilling to change. I've seen it: print out all documents, avoid using the computer as much as possible. Rather than using Lexis or Google, let's use old-fashioned or inefficient discovery techniques. A younger lawyer with spirit and integrity can do the job better and faster.
Fire/lay off anyone over 60, people! - WriterSD, on 05/18/2009, -2/+3I hadn't heard of this particular tactic. I do know some people who graduated from law school and have received a "deferred" job acceptance, but it didn't involve paying them in the meantime. I don't think I'd mind the set up this article talks about. :)
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