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85 Comments
- inactive, on 01/12/2009, -4/+31Its their own damn fault!
- inactive, on 01/13/2009, -6/+26It's their own fault. The electric cars/hybrids they're designing now could have been built a decade ago, had they not conspired with the oil companies.
- Deausx, on 01/13/2009, -0/+20What Aaron said. The cost of new cars is somewhere in the stratosphere. Plunking down 25k for a car is not something most people want to do, let alone in times like these. Not only that, but the entire concept of planned obsolescence makes thinking of a car as a long term investment extremely difficult. Who wants to pay half a years salary for something that has parts designed to fail at 100k miles?
The automakers created a system that rewards buying used cars and now they are paying for it. If a car drops half its value in a few years, who really needs a BRAND new car instead of a mostly new car? And it drops its value because automakers design them too. Now its biting them in the ass and they are crying over it. I've got no tears for you. - TheCash, on 01/13/2009, -2/+17What about the asian automakers? They weren't exactly posting huge profits either, were they?
- AaronCo, on 01/13/2009, -2/+16Well no joke. $30,000 for a new car? Come on, that's insane. Without good loan terms who'd really want to buy one? Especially given the level of depreciation that happens within the first 3 years.
I can get a 3 year old factory-cert'd used car w/ a warranty for nearly half the price, put down a 30% deposit and get decent finance terms and end up saving myself enough money to buy a 2nd car. Keeping up with the neighbor's debt load just isn't a good enough reason to leverage myself into bankruptcy.
Ford rose to power on the concept of cheap and reliable transportation. Over the years they've lost that focus, they're no longer able to compete on price. So has the rest of Detroit. In order to be truly competitive again the retail price needs to drop to $10k for a new car. That means dramatically cutting input costs. There should be no surprise that crazy expensive just doesn't sell when people don't have money to throw away. - inactive, on 01/13/2009, -4/+16"The concessions that Bush wants us to make are just a slap in our faces," said Tammy Jones, a furnace worker at Chrysler's Hamtramck axle plant in Detroit. "People fought and died for our rights and we must fight to keep them."
Who fought and died for the UAW contract. What a ***** idiot, no wonder the industry is in the toilet with morons like this in the plant. The auto industry is like any other job. If demand for your product diminishes then you either have to cut jobs, cut wages or go out of business. It is not my job or the governments to keep you working at the same wage you had when you were selling cars hand over fist. ***** you Tammy Jones, you are what is wrong with the UAW. - meghalc, on 01/13/2009, -2/+11The automakers either American or Japanese, have failed due to greed. They tried to absorb every single cent out of the current automotive technology. Infact, they had the Electric Car, Hydrogen Fuel Cell, or CNG technology knowledge for atleast 20 years now! This is their own fault for following the big oil industries and I do not feel sorry for their failure.
- dwhitbeck, on 01/13/2009, -1/+9The US automakers have given the unions everything they asked for and tried to make up for it by squeezing their suppliers to death and trying to convince buyers to shell out for overpriced, inefficient behemoths. They are at the point where the suppliers are going broke and people are not willing to be a slave to support driving these types of vehicles.
- nutsackninja, on 01/13/2009, -0/+8Paying your employee's 95% of their salaries not to come to work was apparently not a good business model. Who could have guessed?
- AaronCo, on 01/13/2009, -2/+9Totally agree. What happens if I want to drive to visit family? That's 300 miles, at the very least. What am I going to do, buy 2 cars? One for long distance and one for short distance? No way. Cars cost too much for the average family to buy specialty vehicles. At $5 per gallon, $30000 = 6000 gallons of gas. That's 120,000 miles at 20mph. That's an entire car's life span. I would have to buy and drive the car over 100k miles just to hope to break even. No way.
- drhouse, on 01/13/2009, -1/+8No, but they're making some smart moves. For example, Honda pulled out of F1 racing and axed the new NSX in anticipation of a lower profits.
- Egoist, on 01/13/2009, -0/+7That's why you buy used, to avoid the extreme depreciation. Only when you have money to blow do you buy new.
- Ninh, on 01/12/2009, -7/+14Once Chrysler and GM go out of business there's room enough again for the remaining manufacturers.
- knowitman, on 01/13/2009, -0/+6Honda and Toyota also had electric vehicle programs at the same time as the GM EV-1 program. They also scrapped their vehicles. There was absolutely no market for an electric vehicle a decade ago.
- NomortaL1, on 01/13/2009, -3/+9thats how markets work. bad companies go out of business.
dont worry though, someone will buy them out for cheap, cut out all the excess fat, and create better cars in the long run - nutsackninja, on 01/13/2009, -2/+8Paying a UAW worker 120k to sweep the floor or paying your employee's 95% of their salary not to come to work really wasn't a solid business model apparently.
- Ben851, on 01/13/2009, -1/+6Hahaha... Ford... Lost its Focus....
- diggThis77, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5Not to mention that she demands to get paid $28 an hour for a job that anyone can hold. I'm sorry but having a high school education and being American doesn't entitle you to gold roads, prime rib and 400k house. I went to college and did my years as an underpaid person working his way up in the world and I still don't think I'm entitled to anything. Wages are a product of who can or will do them. Any person can sweep a floor, put a door on a car, etc. I don't know what your wages should be but it shouldn't be $28 an hour or whatever absurd amount it is.
As for not getting paid when you're not working, I'm starting to understand why they have that. My brother is an electrician and there are just various days that he can't work and doesn't get paid. You can't pick a part time job up and say uhm..I'll let you know when I can work. Not to mention how many salaried people get paid holidays, have appt's or just leave 30 minutes to an hour early on a Friday just because you're salaried. So after thinking about it the only thing I'm ticked off about is the absurd hourly rates they get paid for the job they do.
What are your thoughts?? - jstem1994, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5Just paid $10.6k for my 2006 Scion (Toyota) that will LAST me at least another 100k miles. $30k for a new car? Are you kidding?
- jeffkee, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5What kind of commuting do you do? I'd be miserable if I had to live in the suburbs and commute.
I drive about 10,000 kms a year... which is not even 6500 miles. If the price was right it would be perfect. - evilbob333, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5You really can't blame CAFE standards on the auto makers, nor the two fleet rules for domestically owned manufactures, nor the franchise laws of states.
- GhostFreeman, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5This woman's mentality is exactly why labor unions are absolutely worthless, and greedy. You get a salary degrade? Be grateful you aren't being let go. Hell your union has a lot of GM stock -- if they rebound (something that everyone from the execs to the people mopping the floors have their part in), its win-win for everyone, and then you can negotiate better, absurd salaries.
I think its time organized labor and unions stopped seeing the world through rose tinted glasses. Its time to serve the best interests of its members and the organizations they're constantly fighting against to keep these people employed and offer better products. - Konrad9, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5The bailout wasn't suppose to miraculously IMPROVE SALES, it was to allow them to keep paying their employees and stay open.
- dancindrudge, on 01/13/2009, -0/+5wish it could have been over for the banks as well..
- Ragzouken, on 01/13/2009, -2/+6Get on a train.
- drakelord, on 01/13/2009, -0/+4My 2006 Chevy Cobalt was only $10k brand new from the factory.
- mehan, on 01/13/2009, -0/+4yea, but you drive an Outback..
- heresy_fnord, on 01/13/2009, -1/+4It's the banks failing that have crippled the auto manufactures, not "terrible cars".
Everyone seems to have forgotten all of the banks that made bad financial decisions and sucked our economy into their financial black hole. - drjekelmrhyde, on 01/13/2009, -0/+3The only one out of ALL the others making money is Subaru
http://www.jconline.com/article/20090106/BUSINESS/ ... - diggdatt, on 01/13/2009, -0/+3Half a years salary? *****, most cars cost more than some people make in a year. Some of those SUVs are like 2 years salary. I drive old *****, its all I can afford, 80s and 90s for me still.
- Redge, on 01/13/2009, -1/+4Everything is now against them. Good luck folks...
- inactive, on 01/13/2009, -2/+5What manufactuers? The only other car manufacter in the USA I can think of is Ford. Unless you want an Oligopolic car industry.
- borez, on 01/13/2009, -0/+3I live in London, I get the train. But if I was buying a new car I'd easily want it to go more then 50 miles on a charge, just for holidays and visiting relatives etc.
- Konrad9, on 01/13/2009, -2/+5Once Chrysler and GM go out of business no one will have any faith in Ford, and sales across the board will plummet. Add that to the hundreds of supplier businesses that will go out of business because of the loss of sales to Chrysler and GM, and then dealers, and then businesses built up around those suppliers.
If you think any of the three will survive if any ONE of them dies, you need to seriously rethink the whole situation. - TheCash, on 01/13/2009, -0/+3And Ford axed it's fuel inefficient RWD project, and is converting half of it's truck/SUV manufacturing plants to small car production, while bringing over extremely popular and much more fuel efficient designs from it's profitable European division.
Meanwhile, GM is shedding it's dead weight by kicking Saturn, Pontiac, and other profit-bleeding brands to the curb, tightening it's proverbial belt, and getting ready to release the much hyped and long in development Chevy Volt.
All of the above moves are more necessary then smart, so arguing the intelligence of a mass of corporate entities that are collectively bracing against a universal industry downturn is pretty, well, dumb. - HowitZer25, on 01/13/2009, -2/+5Union workers should shutup and accept competitive pay and benefits.
- mahadiga, on 01/13/2009, -1/+4Automakers must produce vehicles that have
1. positive resale value
2. export quality - jbmcb, on 01/14/2009, -0/+3The technology was here, it just would have cost $400,000. Do you know how much a single LiON battery pack cost in 1993? Even NiCd packs cost a ton. And I'm sure a tiny, super expensive electric coupe would have sold like hotcakes when gas was $1.10 a gallon.
You seem to have some very definite opinions on the auto industry for knowing so little about it. - jbmcb, on 01/13/2009, -0/+3> As far as I'm concerned, if they go out of business, then the battery technology patents that they own (and hoard)
Name them.
Or are you talking about the super high tech lead-acid batteries the EV1 used? Here's a hint, lead acid batteries SUCK for use in electric cars. Ever wonder why they only piloted the EV1 in California? See what range you get in Minnesota in February. - nutsackninja, on 01/13/2009, -1/+4Good point dwhitbeck it hasn't been said enough and I don't think many people realize this.
My father works at a steel factory and every single time the UAW gets a raise or more benefits the suppliers get squeezed into lowering the rates to pay for their raises. There was no money to go around for raises or anything; my dad never even got a raise or cost of living increase in 10 years. Basically the suppliers worked for the raises for the UAW workers.
Eventually they lowered the price of the steal they wanted to buy to such a point they were losing money making it and went bankrupt.
The UAW is at top of the food chain and everyone below them suffers because of there greed. - my10cent, on 01/13/2009, -0/+2What part of financial crisis do they not understand? We do NOT have any money to buy new cars for, I think the basics are a little more important than a SUV, this is not a crisis that can be solved, if people can not afford buying cars they will not sell any cars.
- jbmcb, on 01/13/2009, -0/+2You mean they must gain in resale value? How is that possible? And what does "Export quality" mean? Where do they export their quality to?
- Smuikas, on 01/13/2009, -0/+2Here.. on clarkson island.. we have the largest population.. of clarksons.. in the wooorld.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMuO-8S_0Wg - TheCash, on 01/13/2009, -8/+9Yeah... Union workers and bosses might actually have to *work* for their paychecks. Oh the horror!!
- Swivelstick, on 01/13/2009, -1/+3Your statement doesn't make sense except from a xenophobic point of view I suppose?
- evilbob333, on 01/13/2009, -0/+2I never understood the logic of going out and mass producing a product before there was a great demand for it. The market is not some Field of Dreams scenario of "If you build it, they will buy it". Its more of a "what are people wanting that isn't out there...Hey lets build that" scenario. Hell even Apple doesn't just make a product and assume people will buy it (even though they sure make it look like they do). They do market research in to what people want to buy. And a decade ago gas was cheap and people wanted big safe cars.
- jbmcb, on 01/14/2009, -0/+2@smuikas
You honestly think they sell huge SUVs outside of the US? The foreign arms of the US car makers do very well, and they compete in the compact and subcompact markets along with VW, Toyota, Honda, etc... -
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