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110 Comments
- Petrarch1603, on 11/30/2007, -5/+71Digg has predicted 35 of the last 2 recessions
- vault, on 11/30/2007, -8/+40Here come with the 15-year-old economic strategists.
- xtmno3, on 11/30/2007, -7/+36The end of it sums it up nicely:
"Superpower America is a ship of fools in denial of their plight. While off-shoring kills American economic prospects, “free market economists” sing its praises. While war imposes enormous costs on a bankrupt country, neoconservatives call for more war, and Republicans and Democrats appropriate war funds which can only be obtained by borrowing abroad.
By focusing America on war in the Middle East, the purpose of which is to guarantee Israel’s territorial expansion, the executive and legislative branches, along with the media, have let slip the last opportunities the US had to put its financial house in order. We have arrived at the point where it is no longer bold to say that nothing now can be done. Unless the rest of the world decides to underwrite our economic rescue, the chips will fall where they may." - scabbers, on 11/30/2007, -1/+21Sell people who default on their loans to China as slaves!
- inactive, on 11/30/2007, -2/+18ok, economics 101, a) wealth does NOT equal money, b) wealth does NOT equal one is poor the other rich.
wealth comes from work and goods, production. in healthy economies with healthy trade BOTH economies can benefit, a poorer and a richer. it does NOT matter who is richer, BOTH benefit in healthy trade.
economics, ask any professor. - itatter, on 11/30/2007, -13/+27well here's the thing... the article touts China and Japan's $1 trillion assets/holdings/whatever and ***** on the US, but the sheer population of china puts their GDP per capita at a mere $7,722, compared to the US' $43,223. granted Japan's is much better at $32,530, but people keep insisting the country is gonna be underwater soon anyway heh.
in any case, we can all agree the US is overspending like woah ($800 billion yearly deficit per the article).. very informative article and worth a read - edebolt, on 11/30/2007, -1/+10there is more than meets the eye. China has upwards of 1 trillion of bad loans on its books and headed into a major asset valuation bubble and not to mention trillions of cost to clean up its environment. Japan while sound has the highest Debt to GDP ratio of any developed country of 200 % external debt. That is 7 times the ratio of the US external debt. Japan's growth is so slow they can only sustain interest rates of .5 percent.Certainly the US could clean house a bit but for those who remember the 1980's when Japan was supposed to run us over.Well 20 years later they have lost GDP ground to the US... People are always selling the US short but there is a lot of resiliency in the past, present and future.
- SeethisPass, on 11/30/2007, -0/+8We must create a [economic] crisis in order to ensure that there is no alternative to a smaller government.” ~ Jeb Bush, Imprimis Magazine 1995 ...
Yeah and then they want to take our bankrupt and reviled little government and use it to take over the world. What the hell have the ***** been snorting up their snouts? - DangerCollie, on 11/30/2007, -2/+9The economy is not going to collapse. A trillion may seem like a lot until you realize the US economy is a 14 trillion dollar machine.
All the same, hubris and arrogance will take a toll. We elected the Duke of Hazard to the most power office in the nation and he loaded the government with the party faithful, Republican fund raisers and his buddies. Competence was not a qualification. There will be a pay back. It won't be fun.
We are no longer the greatest nation in the world. We are no longer the best place to live in the world (this year we didn't even make the top 10). It just hasn't quite sunk in yet. - inactive, on 11/30/2007, -2/+9Hey thanks for you thumbs up on this one. it's so hard to argue the recent uptick in the stock market and the fed promise to low interest rates as a bad thing. People jsut do get the fact that we just can't keep borrowing money and do nothing about reigning in the deficeit.
- wakananda, on 11/30/2007, -0/+7"The Jews" are NOT Israel, and Israel is not "The Jews." Israel is an anglo-american projection of power in the ME, which originated as a "preliminary solution" to the "jewish problem" in Europe, financed and organized with Zionist/Nazi collaboration. Most jews in Europe were NOT zionists before WWII. Zionists at that time sold out European jewry by gaining Nazi support to move jews to a homeland in the ME: Nazi money, nazi ships, nazi logistics... European Jews were screwed en masse by this ideologically-driven betrayal.
- CiXeL, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7cheney was betting on the dollar drop for quite some time now.
its really disturbing when your own VP is betting against you. - inactive, on 11/30/2007, -1/+7The plural for sheep is sheep!
- Shigatsu, on 11/30/2007, -6/+12I'm not surprised, its merely more confirmation that this is not happening due so much to incompetence as it is through engineered planning. The move is towards globalization and it's another step towards it, a big one perhaps.This is how I see it though...
If the US economy collapsed, obviously the people and the investors who get stuck holding the bag are going to get screwed, as it reflected it would be a time of economic hardship, a new depression if it goes down hard enough. The ideal answer for people in the US (and anywhere that might feel the after effects.), would be to invest in something like gold or silver for example, as these tend to keep their value. Those who are smart and had the foresight to know this has been coming for awhile will probably already have taken this venue.
The way things work at least in the US to my understanding is that when you purchase gold bullion that there is a relationship formed between you and the seller, a paper trail between gold and you is created. In the event of a gold seizure the government would go around and collect all the gold bullion in the system using these paper trails. It would mirror the last great depression. Ironically the Fed raid on the liberty dollar (gold and silver coins.) is a striking reminder of their power to do such things. Through its growing popularity the liberty dollar camp, could have allowed people to bail themselves out of the crashing economy but as said that prospect was at least short term over from the recent raid.
I think if the economy collapses a magic solution is already prepared, a "New Deal" which would allow the fractional reserves system to continue on under the Amero, or some other tri-country currency. If the gold is collected than it would create a situation where there's no way out but to accept the new currency. Which will be heralded as this new economic stablizer, something to compete with the Euro. With 3 countries behind this currency, they will tell you that economic crisis like the recent recession are a thing of the past.
Then for awhile it probably will, things will improve as the use of the amero (new deal currency) starts to take hold. I suspect there would be one more big crash, and that could pave the path for a single currency, everyone is tied to the same currency under some new sort of economic security bender, and then it will be one fed, one bank, a monopoly over the system that would be harder to break then americas.
Of course it could work a dozen other ways, but I would bet gold on the idea if the crash is as bad as they claim then there will be another new deal, and it will be tied into the Rockefeller / CFR vision of free market globalism. - nossing, on 11/30/2007, -2/+8"...war in the Middle East, the purpose of which is to guarantee Israel’s territorial expansion..."
The war in Iraq is to control the flow of oil in the region, let's not forget. Israel is just another client of the US (not the other way around) -- a quasi colonial outpost that strengthens US power in the region. - inactive, on 11/30/2007, -0/+4Right, the US is the only country that can nuke others.
- CiXeL, on 11/30/2007, -1/+5in order for US workers to take a paycut like that the system would have to fully collapse because no one will be able to afford anything at those wages.
- inactive, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3I like sheeps better.
- bosssmiley, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Yeah, but unfortunately even the Chinese and Russians have now worked out that capitalism is the *least bad* of the various economic systems you can try.
Soon enough this drop in the value of the dollar will be self-correcting. Iron Law of the Market: people eventually buy into an undervalued stock and drive the price back up again. The same will happen for the dollar when people abroad realise it's cheaper to buy America's specialist goods (to whit: movies, music, microcode - media!) from America, even _with_ import/export duties added on, than it is to buy home products.
Every stock bubble, crash and reconstruction effort has shown that even small shifts in trade can have massive knock-on effects in confidence and currency values. It'll be the same again. Deals will be done to make sure banks don't go under, millions aren't bankrupted, jobs lost, etc (our elected drones know enough to protect their own dividends and incidentally save our @sses). Stability and confidence will be restored.
As in the 1930s; the US isn't quite ready for the knacker's yard yet. - darkstar949, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3The China factor is worry some, but they have a great deal of internal pressure as well - remember that they are still Communist, but they have some free market society. The reason that they have the Great Firewall is for internal social control - if enough people inside the country start to think that enough is enough then they will have to worry about the potential for civil war.
- amenofis, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Why is it always an us vs them mentality here?.
The Article doesn't compare our Economy to the Chinese or anybody else's. Your missing the point. Our economy is possibly about to collapse. We will suffer, We will lose jobs, and mostly because of this stupid administration we voted for TWICE! but that's also not the point of the Article. China and all the rest of the economies that have massive holdings of US dollars will also suffer. it's in their best interest that we do well but if our fall is inevitable it's in their best interest to lose those holdings as soon as possible making our fall worse. - dimitrisokolov, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Ok, so if no one wants the dollar how would China, Japan or other nations get rid of them?
- jmwb, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3People who think the weak dollar is a good thing are very misinformed. If a weak currency were a boon, Africa would be an economic powerhouse. A weak currency incents foreign ownership to take over revenue-generating capital. An example is the Abu Dhabi buy of 5% of Citibank. That is 5% of citibank's future revenue that will leave America instead of reinvested.
Take out the global corporations from our stock market and we're already down 20%. If you normalize our economy to the fall of the dollar, we're down over 20% as well. Of the 26 major markets, the US stock market is the worst performing. - BESTenemy, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3What is going to happen when money from the foreign reserve vaults are going to rush back to our banks? Economic acquisition of our domestic assets (of which there are fewer than there are dollars in global circulation). When we say: "China might dump its 1.3 trillion" that doesn't mean they're going to pack the greens into barrels and ship them here. No. That means they are going to be asking things of value in exchange for our dollar - demanding ownership of our land and everything that's on it.
We are likely not to honor our debts. We did during revolutionary wars when France lended us money, but that's because we had assets to cover the debts. Not anymore. The value of our assets is hyperinflated. The reality is grim - we consume much more than we produce. We do not have things to give in exchange for the dollar, cause if we had them, we'd not need to be borrowing them in first place.
Land, real estate and service businesses are the things of value foreigners will try to buy. If we comply, we'll be working for our new owners, enslaved to make returns on the accumulated debts. If we refuse, it might lead to forced economic isolation or a violent resolution (war). We tend to take our problems overseas and deal with defiant on their turf. Soon we might see the day when their repo-men come armed and read to take back what's been constructed with borrowed funds. - localzuk, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3it has taken Bush 2 terms in power to ruin the dollar. You think a change of leadership will result in a fix? I think not.
- CrazedLeper, on 11/30/2007, -2/+5They have no intention of ever paying back the national debt. For that reason, alone, it has no significance.
- Albionshores, on 11/30/2007, -0/+3Exactly - but the Chinese system is operating at full steam on just such an average income. Normally the dollar would have lost out but then would have levelled off and regained ground as America attracted more overseas investment due to the weaker dollar. As it is the dollar is tumbling down but still investment and manufacturers stay overseas.
- LongShlong, on 11/30/2007, -3/+6Thought provoking?
It should be action invoking. - Albionshores, on 11/30/2007, -8/+11Not forgetting Taiwan which holds massive amounts of US debt. America is already stretched and China is piling on the pressure regarding the sovereignty of Taiwan. If China were to cross the straits and seize control Taiwan's assets she would corner the market in her control of the US economy - if she doesn't already. America would be poorly positioned to do anything about it. The World Bank has also already announced that in the event of a world depression the Chinese over-revving economy is the one geared to survive it and to even emerge the stronger for it.
The weakness of the dollar is certainly in part holding up the American stock market. Why have money in the bank depreciating in real worth when you can invest elsewhere? Not only does the problem lie with where US debt is held, it also lies with where the smart investment money of the US domestic market will eventually go - overseas and in foreign investment. We all accept that the dollar is perilously low, but with investment taking temporary shelter in US stock it is also causing the US market look more stable than it actually is. - avengingturnip, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Interesting question. They hold securities denominated in dollars. If those securities are no longer marketable, they could possibly demand payment in some other kind. Then it would be up to the U.S. to try to secure other means of paying off its debts.
- Homerr, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Time to take the credit card away from Congress.
- poidh, on 11/30/2007, -4/+6I hope the US remains strong, as a world with more Russian/ Chinese/ Islamic influence we can well do without.
By the way American people, try to cut down that 800 billion dollar deficit by not buying Chinese crap that you don't need. - localzuk, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Israel != Jews. Yes, there are jews in Israel, but you have to separate the race and religion from the country. The very fact that there is so much trouble between Israel and the rest of its neighbours is because no-one can drop the whole theological country crap.
- inactive, on 11/30/2007, -2/+4Just more NWO *****. Get a clue!
- HollowMarkeD, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Yeah, stupid former advisor to Ronald Regan, he knows nothing about economics; hey lets ask you!
- falseleftright, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Wow, I feel much better now, thanks.
- rand0mm0nkey, on 12/02/2007, -0/+2The US is the only county that DOES nuke others.
- phuture84, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2With how much the US spends importing goods from China, it is in their best interest not to intentionally hurt us. Who is going to employ their people if we can't buy ipods and kids toys? If they ever tried an "economic" war it would be mutually assured destruction. There are a lot of comments on here from europeans who like to talk ***** about the US and how they are better than us. If your system is better, why isn't it the dominant economy in the world? When people default on home loans here it drops the european stocks too. Calm down with all the holier-than-thou non-sense. Look, money is the only thing that runs this world, like it or not, at least we admit it.
- Hartrain, on 11/30/2007, -2/+4crybaby
- REBrill, on 11/30/2007, -3/+5Anyone else sick of these kinds of stories? The world is not going to end!
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 11/30/2007, -0/+2Oh noes.
- williamdyer, on 12/01/2007, -0/+2Yes, he does understand. The stock market is an asset, and if the unit that prices the asset goes down in value, you need more dollars to buy that asset. You are essentially being taxed on the dollar's devaluation in the form of cap gains.
- smek2, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1What goes Up must come Down. Seriously, nobody with an ounce of reason expected the US to be a superpower for all eternity. The only thing the US are still number 1 (regarding technology and size) is in the military field. But wait until China starts their space program.
- wakananda, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1See you in the next world. Don't be late.
- localzuk, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2No, the world is not going to end. But it will change significantly at some point in our life time - like it already has done once (with the whole fear of terrorism thing).
- bratpack8, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Three words: Sovereign Wealth Funds (SWF's). China has already hired a NY financial company that specializes in buying raw materials and physical assets, such as real estate. SWF's are secret, the countries who use them don't have to let anyone know what they are spending their money on. China is using them to rid themselves of the dollar over a period of time, as it is better than dumping them all at once.
- mnederlanden, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Its federal debt they are buying not consumer debt.
- bratpack8, on 11/30/2007, -1/+2If you don't think it's an issue, don't worry about it. But all empires have collapsed because of their monetary system going down the tubes. Why would ours be any different. One suggestion, if you have wealth in dollars, time to get it into something physical, like raw materials or real estate.
- bratpack8, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1I just posted below, they are presently using SWF's or Sovereign Wealth Funds. China hired a financial company called Blackstone to manage $3B of US dollars. Blackstone specializes in technology, energy, raw materials, and real estate mainly. In other words, they are already moving out of the dollar, just delicately as they would get burned big time if they dumped them all at once.
- Dush, on 11/30/2007, -0/+1Don't worry the US federal government has gathered up large tracts of land with vast amounts of lumber and minerals. So there is plenty of collateral on hand to repay the foreign creditors.
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