digg

Facebook Connect Join Digg About

The ATM in the Church Lobby

time.com — Is that an ATM in the church lobby? Credit and debit card swipe machines in churches may startle some of the pious, but such kiosks, already present in some houses of worship, might become even more commonplace now that a new IRS regulation is in effect.

Who dugg this? Made popular Aug 6, 2007

Digg DudeWhat is Digg?

Digg is a place for people to discover and share content from anywhere on the web. Digg surfaces the best stuff as submitted and voted on by the community. Take the Tour to learn more.

180 Comments

show profanity settings
expand all
  • laroja, on 10/10/2007, -13/+170-Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers..."It is written", he said the them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer', but you are making it a 'den of robbers'" -Matthew 21:12,13
  • mishabear, on 10/10/2007, -16/+87And they say religion isn't a business....
  • tomboy501, on 10/10/2007, -6/+63Mega Churches don't care what Jesus said. They want money. Settling out-of-court pedophile claims and paying for their leaders' meth-rehab bills is expensive these days
  • faithhealer, on 10/10/2007, -3/+44Jesus would probably "go off" like he did with the moneychangers in the temple.
  • Sandtiger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28Most churches are now run as a business. Savvy PowerPoint presentations, marketing materials, ATM's inside, Hollywood AV systems, super-large church buildings, telethons aka fund drives... I stopped going to church after I look around and noticed that the church was in their third building (each larger than the other) and asking for even more money to build an even bigger super church. At what point does it turn more into greed than passing on God's word?
  • Serapthi, on 10/10/2007, -5/+26I'll take a wild guess and assume that everyone that dug this comment up didn't actually read the article. The ATM wasn't put in to make it easier for people to withdraw cash and buy things. It was put in to create a paper trail to report how much was tithed to the IRS. Heck when you think about it it shouldn't even be called an ATM because the machine wasn't even created to dispense cash. It just provides a receipt that one can put in the offering basket.
  • pilgrim3970, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17"This article is about making donations to the church more accessible,"

    Yeah, but it is a perfect example of the consumerist mentality with which so many approach the faith. I have seen churches that have Starbuck's styled coffee bars, exercise facilitities,etc. It is more a country club than a place to give God the honor he is due.

    You have "Christian Rock", Christian clothing lines, Christian vacation cruises, etc, etc ,etc. Christian used to mean being like Christ. Now it has come to mean being like the moneychangers.

    And you wonder why the faith is so ridiculed by your average diggian? How you can you expect the unbeliever to to take the faith seriously if the faithful can't even do that?
  • Hooded38, on 10/10/2007, -12/+27McSalvation.
  • rhabd0mancer, on 10/10/2007, -11/+26Churches are interested in one thing only: The Green Salad of Salvation ($).
  • zenzic64, on 10/10/2007, -5/+20Most churches are not run as money-making businesses. These so-called "mega-churches" are the glaring exception, but still the vast minority. Most churches are relatively small and far more concerned with service than with profit. As with most anything, it's the exceptions that people tend to notice.

    That's not even what this article is about though. This is about churches trying to respond to yet more governmental intrusions into our daily lives. The IRS can't abide the possibility of missing out on a few bucks, so they put yet another onerous burden on individuals to prove the legitimacy of donation claims.

    So while I totally agree with your closing question about these mega-churches, I pose one about our government. At what point does it cease to become a government "...of the people, by the people, for the people..." and instead become an instrument of tyranny?
  • PATSCRU, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18maybe he'd check his balance.
  • wackymacs, on 10/10/2007, -9/+21Where is the picture of the ATM in the church? TIME suck.
  • leogodin217, on 10/10/2007, -17/+29OK, first of all, how many of you that commented read the story and realized part of this is to meet help meet an IRS regulation? Second of all, how many who commented are Christians and have any vested interest in this story? Really, I don't see why anyone would care about having an ATM at a church. I realize some wouldn't like it but it's really no big deal. I'd love to have one at my church. It would make it very easy and efficient to designate special gifts to certain missions or causes. If some of us are going out to lunch after church I could take cash out to pay. (I hate eating with a group and realizing everyone expects to pay with a debit card so I bring cash).

    There was a time when people thought it was satanic to bring electric guitars into church. Now they are common place. This too, will probably become commonplace. There is no reason why technology cannot make the business of running a church (which is a ton of work) more efficient.
  • bausermedia, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13If this is accurate, the most important aspect of this article is that the IRS is going to start requiring documentation for small charitable contributions. More tax filing minutia on top of an overly complicated system resulting in more errors, more audits, more IRS employees to track the minutia and thus higher taxes to support the tax collecting system.
  • Tivor, on 10/10/2007, -7/+18Wow, digg users really don't read the article, do they? Or for that matter, read that summary at the top of this page???

    Churches are installing ATMs and accepting credit/debit cards in order to comply with new IRS regulations. IRS regulations, ok?

    RTFA, people.
  • leogodin217, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12What are you talking about? I've been a member of two churches and know many people from other churches and none of them require money of any sort. The bible talks about tithing but the churches I've been to make that a matter between you and God.
  • tomesnyder, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15My church has provided a way to give online. I usually do it that way.
  • Eivo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11Except the issues you need to be "forward thinking" on have to deal with human rights and your fellow man. How about you work on those first before you worry about who is going to fund your next Mega Church.
  • ayeroxor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11Christianity "makes" no one pay, Captain Theologist.
  • drmangrum, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8The moment the preacher has a stake in the success of the church.
  • AJH16, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9You are right that many churches are run as a business. In fact, it is unwise not to. A church, just like any organization does need money to function and should accumulate money to grow. In fact, a fairly common model now is for a church to be a corporation that is owned by those who give money or are members, with those who are donating having say over business aspects of the church and those who are members (regaurdless of donations) having say over spiritual decissions.
    The more important question is what is done with that money that is brought in. Is it going to over-paid pastors and overly elaborate equipment (insert many a mega-church here), or is what is needed to provide a quality service to the congregation being used and the rest begin used to benefit the community or world. As an A/V tech for a church, I know that it is a hard line to tell just where the line is in regaurds to responsible spending. An associate of mine from another church recently got them to spend $150,000 on plasma TVs for their sanctuary. Personally I think this is crossing that line, but if a church is growing rapidly and keeps outgrowing it's building and needs a new one, I don't see how this isn't a justifiable cost. I also don't see how a good quality sound and video system (using affordable, not extravagent) to help everyone see and hear better is a problem. There are certainly many churches that have lost sight of their purpose, but I would argue there are many more that are trying their hardest to make the biggest difference they can.
  • asiarock, on 10/10/2007, -12/+19What's the big deal? I wish my church had one of these...it would make life that much easier. Seriously, you people want to keep the church in the dark ages on some issues, but expect us to be forward thinking in other areas. This is just another example of the church moving into the 21st century. Some of us actually WANT to give our money to the church, not out of compulsion or obligation, but out of a genuine desire to tithe. Deal with it.
  • WoollyMittens, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7The problem with citations from the bible is that they apply or don't apply on the whim of the quoter.
    "Thou shalt not kill." is a good example of this.
  • Shawn4168, on 10/10/2007, -7/+13How is this verse relevant? This article is about making donations to the church more accessible, not about people selling things in the church. Tithing to the church is something that is encouraged all throughout the Bible. I fail to see what the problem is with providing another medium through which to do that.
  • mstoneburner, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Actually, we pay to maintain the building, keep the lights on, buy food for the poor, etc. The enlightenment is free. Stop by some time, we'd love to see you and it won't cost you a dime.
  • chrisc262, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10you are missing the point -
    how can you run a church with no money?
    they have to pay bills too, (just not taxes) -

    people tithe out of their own free will, the "ATM" is just another way to do it.
  • df12, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7So, let me get this straight. The ATM (money changer) in the Church (Temple), exchanges the people's money (credit/debit plastic) for the Church's (Temple's) money (cash), taking a good profit (foreign ATM Fee) at the same time... Hmmm yeah, I don't see the biblical connection either....
  • JohnnyXmas, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11They're just making it convenient for their parishioners to be able to have a bit of cash handy for donations.

    If the machine only dispenses large bills and charges a withdrawal fee, well then, we have a conflict of interest there.

    And as far as the IRS thing goes; if you're donating to your church because you love the Lord and feel his house should be in tip-top shape, then isn't it contradictory to be asking the IRS to give you that money back later?
  • MasterFunk, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Come on guys!
    When ever I have heard this idea brought up it has always by the congregation them selves, not the the evil overlord "Church". Some people like giving money every week to the church. I know that might be hard to understand because this is digg and all, but they do, you can trust me. And don't you like having an ATM in your gas station when your in a pinch or aren't you annoyed when a local coffee shop doesn't have a credit card swipe.
    Man, it seems more and more digg is becoming a place for people with the same ideas and philosophies to suck each others dicks.
  • grenden, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11"spiritual freeloaders"...had to laugh at that.
  • Charlotte_Web, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Sandtiger, if you don't like the big church experience, then don't go to a big church.

    There's a lot of small churches out there. In fact, they vastly outnumber the big churches.
  • inactive, on 10/10/2007, -21/+26What would Jesus do?
    PUKE!
  • Tivor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6"And as far as the IRS thing goes; if you're donating to your church because you love the Lord and feel his house should be in tip-top shape, then isn't it contradictory to be asking the IRS to give you that money back later?"

    You didn't even read the article, did you?

    The IRS thing isn't for the CHURCHGOERS to get IRS tax exemption for donation. IRS is asking the CHURCH to provide documentation for ALL donations under $250. THAT's why churches are putting in ATMs and accepting credit/debit cards, in order to have paper trail documents, instead of just cash.
  • Szandor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4To say that Hinn represents Christianity is just as wrong as saying that Bush represents Americans.

    They can both go ***** themselves.
  • Charlotte_Web, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It's a common practice in a lot of churches these days that the pastor doesn't have ANY contact with the money whatsoever.

    I don't have any statistics, but just anecdotally, I don't even remember the last time I heard of a pastor who handled the finances for his church. It just doesn't happen that much any more.
  • Thex1138, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Well why not just carry around a WiFi debt terminal in the bowl so folks can swipe their cards, enter their pin's and praise the lord aye?
    That way you can use Debit or Credit and draw cash if you need it to save on bank fees in church..wont need to go to the bank any more.. :-)
  • grenden, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6You don't have to pay to be a member of a religion, but if you choose to affiliate yourself with a church, you may be "asked" to tithe. **Speaking from the "recovering catholic" point of view. Thank God for Atheism.
  • drmangrum, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Mary Magdeline
  • stech33, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Hmmm....last I remember when Jesus saw money changers in the temple he drove them out with a whip and turned over their tables...This just isn't a good idea
  • ChileanGoD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If Jesus ever returns to earth....
    Bible 2.0... "Jesus entered the temple area and... with a baseball bat beated the crap out of the ATM machine..."
  • inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I kept hearing our Pastor yak on and on about certain "needy" causes and people the Church was "giving" to only to find out after a few months of giving my tithe, the Church is now going to build a new gymnasium. Then they declared last week, they were also purchasing a brand new tour bus for road trips.

    Now, how much of my tithe do you think actually went to helping the needy or feeding the Children?! There is no way of knowing how much the church really actually gave to the needy or hungry. They just say "trust us"?

    Church business is the best business in america. They don't produce anything. They pay no taxes at all, and get money from the government. Tell me if there is any other business that enjoy the same right.

    Churches are in the business of scamming money just like anything else. Panhandlers in a Fancy building!
    If you want to really help needy people then give your money directly to them or at least a credible charity, but never give your money to a Church!
  • jason469, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Good Morning, Jesus loves you very much. Now, will that be debit or credit?.......
  • AmusedToDeath, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Catholicism is just a remade "Christianized" imitation of the Roman Empire, with the Pope as Emperor and the Saints standing in for the numerous Roman gods.

    Catholics regularly pray to dead people like the Saints and of course Mary, who was unquestionably a central figure in the history of Christianity, but who is not a deity and should not be regarded as such. The only Deity to ever walk the face of the Earth is Jesus Christ.

    Catholics also ask forgiveness from priests, who have no authority to grant such forgiveness. Only God can forgive you. The whole symbolic point of the curtain in the temple being ripped in half when Christ was crucified was that there was no longer a separation between God and the portion of Mankind that chose to accept his Son as Savior. This certainly indicates that you don't need another man (priest) to talk to God for you.

    Catholicism also introduced the Christmas celebration, which is the December 25th Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, "the birthday of the unconquered sun" in "Christian" clothes. It is/was a pagan celebration of a Roman Sun god, and most of the traditions of Christmas have direct links to numerous pagan winter solstice festivals. The same is true for Easter.

    True Christianity doesn't have any "teams". The real church is not a building or an organization or a denomination, but rather the people that genuinely repent of sin and choose to follow Christ. They are the body that is so often spoken of in the New Testament.

    Oh, and if you really believe that the Catholic Church "invented" Christianity, I urge you to reread the Bible and delve into some credible history tomes.
  • darkstar949, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Write a check instead then if you need a paper trail.
  • adam.skinner, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4> "People don't carry cash," he says, noting that total income from contributions has increased 18% since the first kiosk was installed in 2005.

    This was installed to make money, plain and simple. That was his criteria for "success". People walk in the church, realise they don't have any money to give but want to give, and then take money out.

    This isn't a tithe, by the way. A tithe literally means "10 percent", and it's given from your gross income.
  • dagr8tim, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Mark 12:17: "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is God's"

    Sounds like Jesus wasn't making a strong case for giving money to the church. Besides, tithe (old English for 10%) is a concept of the middle ages along with the concept of not eating meat on Friday's. It was a way for you to make sure you gave to your share the church. If you don't believe this, then why is the Roman Catholic church the world's richest organization?

    Personally, I prefer not to claim what I give to the IRS. Makes me feel like I'm actually giving for the sake of giving. Not giving for a tax shelter.
  • drmangrum, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Fine, if the churches want to move into the 21st century, they should have online donations through paypal. The fact that the ATMs are in the church means they are using peer pressure to force people to give. When it's just a collection plate being passed around, it's easy to pass it to the next person. Now everyone knows.
  • tacojohn48, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Where I am going to church now we are about to upgrade to all high definition cameras and replace our 4:3 aspect screens with 16:9. I don't see that it will enhance anything but coolness factor. Do people really need to see our broadcast in 16:9 hd? It really was about time to upgrade the cameras as they were starting to wear out and break, but I just don't see going with 16:9 for the screens.
  • sardiskan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Ok, you don't have any idea what you are talking about. The scripture says "The love of money is the root of all evil". Money is amoral, neither evil or good. If you are going to make fun of something...at least know what you are talking about.
  • quisph, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Yes they do, Captain Selective Memory. The history of Christianity is chock full of examples of legally enforced tithing. Even today, tithing is compulsory in many churches, such as LDS and Creation Seventh Day Adventists. The Worldwide Church of God required it as recently as 1986, and there have lately been efforts among Southern Baptists to make tithing a condition of church membership.

    (Cue the fallacious arguments about how these are not "true Christians...")
  • Fetching more discussions...
    Show 51 - 100 of 182 discussions

  • Add a Comment

    Login or register to comment!
    Or, sign-in super fast with your Facebook account ...


© Digg Inc. 2009 — Content created and posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain | Terms of Use Updated | Privacy Policy
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.