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35 Comments
- anjamerret, on 06/14/2009, -0/+4Totally agree. Regrettably it's not only the marketing people who write the most pathetic books which somehow get prescribed, but also management, human resources, business strategy. You name it.
- kharma2001, on 06/14/2009, -0/+2Seth this has been an issue for over a decade. I'll try to be brief..
Professors don't want to do more work. 80% of all profits a book will earn are made in the first year of it's release. After that, used books are purchased back from students by school bookstores and the publisher, author, artists and everyone else who contributed to the books production earn nothing.
The people who make textbook decisions are the professors. Typically the tenured professors who have been teaching forever. They don't want to make new lecture notes or new tests/assignments. They want a textbook that will provide them with a study guide (paper and online), an electronic testbank that works with the schools technology, lecture notes, and if necessary "transition notes" (for profs changing from one textbook to another) and online content for their blackboard/online course delivery.
Universities don't adopt technology quickly and they don't standardize across multiple institutions. Technology often has proprietary codes etc. which means that as new technology is adopted by Universities, publishers have to create unique content for each type of technology doing the same thing. Universities will also demand that any technology content is also available in print form for students who can't afford new technology.
There are 3 major publishers these days. They are dinosaurs, not unlike GM, Ford & Chrysler. They've been run by the good old boys network for years. They are part of huge conglomerates that have no interest in big change. They work to ensure the status quo and the university/college system is perfect for them. Nothing in the educational market moves fast and ultimately the purchaser of the books has no say. They must purchase the assigned book, because they'll be tested on the content of the text book - not on thoughts or ideas.
Also - technology companies contribute to this problem. They create technology for the USA only. The Kindle isn't available in Canada (and most other countries), for instance. Most science, math and technology books are used and used by universities around the world. If 50% of a books sales are outside of the USA and there is no single technology for making it available online, the publishers can't commit to digital content that will automatically cost them half their market for a given book. This is a problem for many technologies. Did you know that Youtube has a nonprofit service that it only extends to the USA and the UK? It's a big world and technology isn't useful if it's redundant by the time it reaches the worldwide marketplace.
I worked in the educational publishing and educational technology industry for 13 years. Getting publishers and educational institutions to adopt new technology is enormously difficult - far more than it needs to be! You have huge organizations that have zero interest in change and students/purchasers who have no voice in making their end purchase. Sooo much needs to change in this industry and there's precious little drive to change from the sellers (i.e. book publishers), the institutions and the professors.
Those who create new technology are working to ensure that their proprietary technology is the one used, but they don't have the vast human resources necessary to drive sales at schools, so individual technology companies will partner with one of the major publishers and you end up with students having to purchase multiple technology platforms, devices or access codes (where it's web based) in addition to their book.
Old stale institutions, organizations, professors and CEO's who are fighting change at every step and no desire amongst any of them to work together to help ensure that standardized delivery of content is available.
The answer? (1) Standardize digital content for all devices so that publishers can deliver content to any company (device maker, technology delivery service) easily. (2) Make technology available worldwide at the same time or within a 12 - 18 months, so that publishers can deliver that content to all their markets. (3) Require professors to keep up to date with technology and stay up to date on new content and issues within their course areas. (4) Require universities to find a way to make technology decisions in a more timely fashion (5) Put people in power across all industries & institutions who have vested interest in the students and not their shareholders, fundraising efforts and/or their own agenda.
What exists now in this industry is the perfect storm for inertia. As long as publishers have to create content for every possible type of technology AND continue to publish pretty 4 colour books, the cost of everything is higher and the content is less engaging. Too much time is spent on being everything to everyone and zero time is spent on being innovative, interesting and helping students learn.
Goodluck - I left the publishing industry to work in the non-profit industry. We have our own issues, but at least I'm banging my head against the wall to make the world a better place, as opposed to doing it to line the pockets of the Sumner Redstone's & Henry Hirschberg's (now retired) of the world. - byhamj, on 06/14/2009, -0/+2I have just finished my MBA and have a stack of worthless textbooks! I'm serious... the best classes that I had were the ones that used relevant books that the professors had read and really believed in. I took a building teams class that used two books, Lencioni and another one (that wasn't that great so I can't remember it). The discussion that came out of Lencioni's book was incredibly more significant than a text book. Plus it was cheap to buy and it was practical.
On another note my marketing text book was a joke (So was my strategy book, but I won't go there)! It retailed around $200, I bought it for around $80(still way too expensive), and I think I read 10 pages of it... Like Seth says in his post, my marketing book did not even come close to what Google, Twitter, Facebook, blogs, online communities are able to create. Textbooks should be used for History and that is about it... Marketing and business practices change. - ArleneJL, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1As someone who has facilitated over 75 courses online I agree that the information which can be found on the Internet can become the information for your course. An online learning environment allows participants to bring other information and perspectives into play. Each course I have facilitated has been a bit different due to the ever changing information available on the net and the needs and interests of my course participants.
- TanyaGulliver, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1There is no textbook for the course I teach. Instead, I gathered articles from the web and sought permissions from authors when they weren't public, and then arranged my own photocopying. I sell the course reader myself for $30 which includes a small amount of money to pay guest speakers but is otherwise cost recovery only. Students appreciate it (the normal cost for the size if the university copied it would be about $100+) and it allows me to continually update it. This year I am debating making it available on Blackboard or on a disc rather than wasting the paper even.
- blairtwo, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1I love the Head First series started by Kathy Sierra. It does everything Seth suggests aside from the publishing/sharing model which doesn't matter coz they are writers, not professors. They still write the best text books by far.
- CraigDewe, on 06/16/2009, -0/+1I loved how the textbook changed every year so not only did you waste money on overpriced textbooks that you had to buy new... but then you couldn't sell them second hand either.
Not that it matters to me anymore but it can't be far off from all going online. - pageman, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1our university doesn't allow any textbook older than five years from the time that we're teaching it (i.e. it's 2009 so the oldest textbook I should use is 2005) unless it's a "classic" - I actually have my students make their own textbooks in pbworks.com - like itethic.pbworks.com - and eventually I can make courseware from these Creative Commons licensed material
- arctanb, on 06/14/2009, -1/+2I completely agree about scrapping paper textbooks and moving information onto the web for the purpose of ease of access etc. However (maybe I'm an anomaly) but I have personally often benefited greatly from truly well-written textbooks such as Schaum's Outlines on Vector Analysis, and Spivak's Calculus, and assigning these books would be a huge help to any (Maths) class.
On the other hand almost all the textbooks we've received in school are pretty appalling simply because they are written entirely for the sake of some curriculum set by OCR or AQA, hence are far too narrow and incredibly shallow; perhaps a result of the terrible state of public exams here in the UK. Go figure... - StaceyKann, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1Right on Seth, this subject is one that I am incredibly passionate about! I launched my company, Cedar Valley Publishing in 2004, from the other end of the spectrum: a textbook for parents, kids and teachers that reads like a book to be read over and over, geared for kids 2-6, called Let’s Get Ready For Kindergarten! I added Let’s Get Ready For First Grade! & iA Prepararse Para Kindergarten! I continue to bootstrap my company with limited resources and am working on the next two books in the series. I have sold over 60,000 books that have been reviewed by over 700 mom blogs and are currently used by libraries, preschools, daycares, and inside over 400 school districts, nationwide. How can we empower parents and kids into the educational process if they don’t have a blueprint to follow? I can’t tell you how many calls I get from customers asking me to hurry up and continue the series through college! Sign me up if you are in need of brainpower to get it done at the college level!
- priamhoover, on 06/15/2009, -0/+1I think this would just about eliminate the possibility of buying a "used" textbook then, the only thing keeping prices in check. And then what would you use to prop up that unlevel desk?
- feisty08, on 06/14/2009, -0/+1I'm hosting a kindred debate about printed White and Yellow Pages on the MyBRC Small Business Owner Blog. There sure are some strong feelings out there. The publishing company has agreed to weigh in today. We can't wait to hear what they say! P. :)
- rekrabian, on 06/15/2009, -0/+1Our answer to the compromises professors must make, and the unread tax students must pay -- and the seismic market challenges faced by publishers -- is the Liquid Textbook. Long story short, let professors to select chunks of content (chapters, podcasts, video, data sets...) from multiple publishers, add their own "stuff", and publish it to students in an interactive, experiential online environment.
But the trick to this market lies in unifying interests. That is, the win in educational publishing is the solution that brings to bear the full weight of publishers' catalogues on behalf of professors, in a form profs can really work with, and that publishers agree with. Tthat means chunking titles down to the chapter level, at which point profs can mix and match content from a number of sources -- including their own content. Ultimately, this leads to completely customized and higher quality course content.
I won't go on at length here, but those interested are welcome to visit www.symtext.com or www.symtext.com/blog
--Ian - emailowndme, on 06/15/2009, -0/+1The textbook industry does need to die. Especially the privatization of textbook and textbook resale stores...
The best classes I've had were when the teach lectured, told us not to buy the book, and would give out handouts, where we would assemble the book in class, with a 3 ring binder. It's no less hard on paper, but it's relevant, constantly updated, and has the information we will be tested on as well as the the teachers personal experience. - jcorn1, on 06/14/2009, -1/+2I hear you but professors are often required to create new textbooks yearly (even if the content has barely changed) Some get around this by assigning photocopied material and use textbooks only rarely. It saves money. Others are tied by school restrictions. From a parental perspective, it can be frustrating for special needs students to have to rely only on notes and no textbooks (if taking notes isn't a strength and tape recorders aren't allowed) Have seen many sides of this.
Also. some professors aren't ALLOWED to make the low cost choice. I'm not sure why but some are required to use current or updated editions of specific books. Again, crazy and not necessarily cost-effective. - priamhoover, on 06/15/2009, -0/+1I think he is referring primarily to college textbooks. I've never heard of a college education via homeschooling.
- MSSS, on 06/16/2009, -0/+1Texas often forces the text market to be more conservative, because it's the biggest K-12 textbook market. That means our liberal California school district is restricted to purchasing texts that have been vetted by Texas. We have a hard time getting the state to purchase 'real' books like class sets of Shakespeare plays or modern novels, if they're not on the state's 'approved text' list.
- cymberly, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0What about buying an online textbook, where the content can change on daily basis? This would also ensure that professors kept up-to-date on newly published content.
- mark3803, on 06/14/2009, -0/+0Wow, you have actually captured the frustrations of many students, parents and employers alike. This is yet another example of a quasi corrupt system where publishers are no doubt scratching somebody's back at each of the colleges and universities. Thanks for bringing this topic such light.
- paulfdowd, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0textbooks are great for subjects in which the subject matter doesn't change rapidly... like maths, history, geography, law, or accounting.
However topics such as management, marketing, and for that matter most business topics outside of those mentioned above textbooks are horrible pieces of work that destroy the ability of a student to create intelligent, original thought. Some lecturers are amazing and manage to generate real thought under these constraints... others lecture to classes full of zombies who would probably get equal benefit from getting more sleep and placing a text book or their laptop open on Wikipedia under their pillow.
the worst thing about textbooks are how they are treated by many university staff as a method for additional earnings. Disgusting practice. Why do i need a textbook from my own lecturer... just to get the lecturer refer to the book in class.
I am an ex-student who has worked in and around universities for 6years up until a few years ago when I started my own company. - cthulhug3zr, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0This hits home after looking back at my 5 years in University and many more in school. Text books and the publishing industry behind them need to wake up and realize they are the next Music industry debacle.... because I can just see them suing anyone who tries to make things better for the students.
It's a crying shame that a University should be a place that is SLOW to adopt change, or have students learning something that took years to publish. This needs to change!! - JamieFavreau, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0I agree.
I have books from years back that are irrelevant today. Textbooks I don't think will ever go out of style just because it is another industry. Even if the professors should choose books which incorporate technology.
I highly doubt the system will change. I am thinking a revolution would have to happen for something like that to happen. - mikeohoro, on 06/14/2009, -0/+0Considering the length of the production cycle for a printed book, they are inherently outdated when they appear. IMO, the textbook issue is derivative of a more fundamental one that Seth's argument abuts: an overabundance of lame, disengaged, defeated, topically antiquated teachers who appear to be going through the motions. Forever ago when I took my undergrad, out of four years of courses, only two were worth anything: 1) A philosophy course in which the prof stretched your intellect and forced you to construct an argument that would stand up to the withering intellectual rigor he applied; and 2) an Industrial Marketing course taught by a guy who owned a marketing communication agency, who fought the fight on the front lines every day. Other than that, it was a waste of time. Under such conditions, the quality of the textbook is a trivial issue.
- cassieboorn, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0Last year I switched from a marketing student to a philosophy student. As a marketing student the lack of knowledge of social media, twitter, online marketing, viral marketing, ect. was astounding. I think I very well could have taught these teachers a thing or two. I was forced to study from a text book (that I didn't read) (that I paid a large sum of money for) that had definitions and perfectly outlined case studies. Things that in real life don't exist. There was little creativity. You took the study in the book and you gave the answer they were looking for. Is that what marketing is? really?
Every Philosophy class I took last semester was textbook-less. Some classes required books. They were reading books. Books that you might buy for enjoyments. (if you love studying about women-rights and the history of God. Along with those books were articles. Tons of them. Shared online for all of the class to print and read and discuss. We saw different perspectives. We read different authors. We challenged ourselves beyond that elementary school vocabulary lesson.
Very good post. Well written - danmcguir, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0If you haven't read Tamim Ansary's piece on this subject it's well worth doing a google on - A Textbook Example of What's Wrong with Education
A former schoolbook editor parses the politics of educational publishing.
by Tamim Ansary - worldwebcreator, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0I 100% agree with you.
When I was studying marketing. Those books are boring and outdated. From those books, I didn't even able to find a word related to online marketing e.g search engine marketing etc. - user66, on 06/18/2009, -0/+0You pontificating idiots!
I've taught computer programming and applications at both English Universities in Montreal for 12 years now. In almost every course I taught, I wrote and gave lecture notes to my students free of charge. For PERL I wrote and handed-out 140 pages, HTML (now XHTML) 120, and Java over 600.
I love teaching; for me it is the noblest profession. I know how much time I spent grinding out words at night and during bright summer days in front of my monitor. Read, Code, Write was my mantra. Day after day. I did it because I knew I had to, it was the right thing to do.
I left teaching a few years ago and returned to it recently. Why did I leave? Because of the money. Teaching does not pay, even if you work at two universities at the same time. A corporate job as a software architect and later manager of architecture pays oh so much more than a word grind monkey.
The notes you quoted in your blog can only be rated as fair to mediocre. They are not even close to containing the same content that I come to expect as a researcher, reader or serious student of a subject. I paid for books written by Alligator Descartes, Cay Horstman and Martin Fowler and was satisfied with their content. They spent time writing their books, two of the them put their names on them (no parent ever names their kid Alligator). They deserved any moneys they received for their excellent and timeless efforts.
To suggest that all authors or teachers offer their work for free because publishers greedily ask for outrageous prices is ignorant.
I password protect my notes and tell my students not to give them to anyone else and never post them on the internet. Why? Because no one paid me to write those notes. I gave them to my students because I think it is the right thing to do.
I'll never feel shy about adopting a textbook for a class in the future again. I pay my dues every day.
If it wasn't for a teacher, none of you would know how to read.
You're welcome. - hYiNynwW, on 06/16/2009, -0/+0"This industry deserves to die." Generalize much? Oh wait---of course you do; you're Seth Godin!
Check out these counterexamples on Amazon, and see what "users" have to say about them there:
1.) Campbell & Reece, BIOLOGY
2.) Myers, PSYCHOLOGY
3.) Grout, Burkholder, Palisca, A HISTORY OF WESTERN MUSIC
4.) Mankiw, PRINCIPLES OF ECONOMICS
5.) Marieb, HUMAN ANATOMY AND PHYSIOLOGY
6.) Aronson, THE SOCIAL ANIMAL
7.) Janson, et al, JANSON'S HISTORY OF ART
8.) Marshak, EARTH: PORTRAIT OF A PLANET
9.) Brown, Lemay, et al, CHEMISTRY: THE CENTRAL SCIENCE
10.) Graff & Birkenstein, THEY SAY / I SAY: THE MOVES THAT MATTER IN ACADEMIC WRITING
And on and on. In nearly every discipline, there is a market-leading textbook that is trusted, learned from, and even treasured by the people who know and use it---i.e., students and teachers.
If an academic discipline completely lacks a market-leader that is as useful and highly-regarded as the titles above are in their respective disciplines, then the fault may lie with the discipline itself rather than with the industry that attempts to provide textbooks for that discipline. Maybe the notion of "marketing" as an actual subject worth teaching in college is the real problem. In which case this "rant" might simply be akin to the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in the mirror. - KimberlyFitness, on 06/24/2009, -0/+0 I try TO get away with smaller textbooks...correcting a typo :)
- user66, on 06/22/2009, -0/+0I'm teaching a new course on SEO and Web Site Visibility in September. Instead of me writing notes again or adopting a textbook how about donating your books to my class? It only adds to your credibility as an educator and allows your publisher to create buzz. Show us the juice Seth, some of us are starting to think you're all/only talk.
- KimberlyFitness, on 06/24/2009, -0/+0Seth, you have it half right,, but there are a few things I would like you to consider.
Where you are right on: Marketing textbooks, like many business textbooks, are boring and full of useless definitions. You are also right that textbooks are outrageously priced, especially for students who are financially struggling. And I agree, if a teacher does no more than reiterate what is in a textbook, they aren't really doing their job as an inspiring and educating teacher.
What you forget (or do not see), is that textbooks offer four or five positive traits.
1. They offer consistency so that no matter what school you earned 3 credits at (or earned your degree at), society knows that the content was primarily the same. This, in a sense, gives a college degree value because it tells people that standards were met (most likely).
2. It includes many visuals and simple examples that can help the students learn when they are not in lecture. When I was a student, I learned much more when I could sit down in a quiet room and go through my textbook teaching myself than I ever did sitting in a lecture. Sure a professor can make their own examples (which we usually do anyway), but textbooks allow teachers to not have to constantly re-create the wheel.
3. Textbooks provide teachers with an outline. I teach some classes with a textbook and some without. I find the classes I teach with a book go much more smoothly. Not because I rely on them, but because it takes the content and puts it in an organized matter that is easy to outline and present so that it makes sense. For marketing, this concept is not really relevant, but I teach science (nutrition and health) and it makes a difference.
4. As previously mentioned, textbooks, now a days, come with much more than just a book. For my classes, my students get an online food journal program, an online database where I can post documents, place grades, and it includes all kinds of visual animations, practice quizzes, study guides, you name it! The students find these extras to be valuable. The textbooks also come with testbanks, which are invaluable, as they offer consistency in grading.
5. As also mentioned, I can tell you that even using textbooks, I work about 30 hours a week teaching 10 credits per semester. And I earn only $16000 per year for this. Most of my time is not spent in classroom, but in preparing lectures, coming up with creative assignments, grading those assignments, grading papers, exams, answering student emails, meeting with students who are having trouble, the list goes on. And of course, when you work 30 hours a week at one job, there aren’t too many other jobs you have time for and most lucrative professions won’t hire anyone for only 10 hours a week. And if I didn’t mention that $16k a year I earn is before taxes, mandatory union fees, and other state fees they make me pay. If I had to write my very own textbook every single year, create all my exams from scratch, search YouTube for crappy animations, I may as well not even work.
What I do, is search for textbooks that are the least expensive, but still good. I try not get away with smaller books, if I can. I also keep some on reserve in the library for those who can't afford the book. And many students know they can browse numerous used textbook websites, if they need to. They are overpriced, but they do offer us much, overall.
Maybe rather than get rid of textbooks, we just advocate that they become a little more affordable. - dpolitis, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0The one thing you didn't suggest, Seth, was to follow the Godin model. In other words, marketing professors
1. Write a short new book (or two) every year,
2. Make them relevant to non-students as well,
3. Make them required reading in your classes,
4. Market & promote the heck out of each new book,
5. Take on sacred cows of the marketing industry,
6. Become a marketing rock star outside of his/her specific university (blogging & other forms of social media/networking are good ways of achieving this),
6. Give speeches around the world for $20K to $100K per presentation, and
7. Repeat as necessary until you can retire to a life of leisure (and consulting).
The only thing that would make these concepts work any better would be to create a network of subject matter expert professors around the country who agreed in advance to cross-sell & market each other's books in their respective classes. Hence, 5 professors marketing books at $20 apiece = $100 in brand new, highly relevant content vs. $200 in old and outdated books. (That's also 5X more books sold per professor versus what she/he can sell alone at their university/college.) And the books would still have a long-tail value and could be bought/sold for many years to come (like "Purple Cow," right?).
Anyway . . . my own rant on your rant, Seth. Have a good day.
Dave Politis
c/o Politis Communications
"Maximizing corporate value
thru strategic communications"
www.politis.com: Website
www.TheBettyFactor.com: Blog
@dpolitis: Twitter Account - Brian726, on 06/15/2009, -0/+0We're using Seth Godins book Permission Marketing as our textbook in my summer school class. Are you saying we can reprint this book for free or is it just chapters? Can you please post authorization for students to do this. Thanks this is great news to be able to now get your books for free.
- Audiperez, on 06/15/2009, -1/+0In response to your textbook rant, which books should I read if I wanted to teach myself marketing?
As a former teacher, I know that textbooks are outdated as much as the most of the material that we use to teach life lessons. I am still waiting for the day that algebra saves my life or the day when I can qoute Shakespeare to my client and motivate him/her to action.
When you are teaching to a large group of people with different skill sets, from different backgrounds, different age groups/interests and learning styles, it's up to the professor to extract, model, teach, apply motivate and inspire.
Textbooks provide the foundation and it's as bland as the food in your local college, campus cafeteria purposefully so so that it can be massed produced and distributed.
You once asked in a different post is it the art that drives the commerce or the other way around?
In the case of textbooks, it's all about the commerce. Some textbooks take 3 years to write and generally have several authors, editors, illustrators, etc. Lots of middlemen to pay.
And if the textbook author makes millions so what? Writing a textbook is as much of an accomplishment as any other.
I do not understand the purpose of a rant. Are you going to write a textbook?
I read your books very carefully. I read them often more than once and it's with my foundational understanding of marketing, that I am able to grasp some if not all of your lessons.
Oh by the way, imagine if your books were scanned and PDF to students so that they wouldn't have to buy them just so that they can save what should be paid out to you and your editors. A penny saved in one place is a penny taken from someone else.
I didn't know it until now, but your rant really affected me. Question is: what should I do about it next?
Http://www.referralteams.com/wordpress - Judy0656, on 06/15/2009, -3/+0There is a better way -- its called homeschooling - we've been doing it for 23 years.
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