What is Digg?203 Comments
- jmknsd, on 10/10/2007, -6/+34I find your Ideas intriguing, how can I subscribe to your golden asteroid newsletter.
- bratpack8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+22You should read Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, Lew Rockwell and other Austrian Economists, because your argument is pure fantasy. Rothbard logically proved there doesn't ever need to be an increase in the money supply for wealth to be generated because money is not wealth.
- shredluc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+17actually, it shows the instability of the dollar in relation to gold.
- lordmetroid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+17No this shows the instability of dollar as currency. Gold is still valued the same you can still get the same amount of gravel for the same amount of gold for example. The feds just pumped billions of dollars into the market a few weeks ago to "save" the stock market. I am not suprised to see the value of gold to increase compared to USD
- slipgrid, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18@The value of gold does change.
Not really. Back in Rome, if you had an one oz gold coin, you could go out and buy a nice toga, a nice meal, and a place to stay for a night. Today in the US, an one oz gold coin will get you a nice suit, a nice meal, and a hotel room for a night. The value hasn't changed a damn bit. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -7/+22Your sole argument against a gold standard is that we might find a cosmic motherload in some fantastic ethereal gold-rush thus negating the irrefutable advantages of specie over fiat money?
That's asterific comedy-gold right there... - RedStateRetard, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18nice try chicken little, how about the explanation that collectors (numismatics) AND bullion coin hoarders just prefer .999 pure gold coins. And checking the us mint's website the buffalo gold coin is still available.
- AnteChronos, on 10/10/2007, -26/+38"No civilization in history has ever maintained a currency that wasn't gold or backed by gold."
You make it sound like that's a good thing. Commodity-backed currency limits economic growth by ignoring the fact that trade can produce more money (we're not talking the printing of bills here, but an actual increase of the overall wealth that exists in the world). However, since the amount of the commodity that is attached to your money is fixed, then you get price deflation. Deflation causes the manufacture of goods to slow down, and thus the economy stagnates.
Now look at a not-so-far-fetched opposite possibility. Suppose we have a gold-backed currency. Now suppose that we discover an asteroid with a high concentration of gold. All of a sudden, the total amount of money in circulation skyrockets, and inflation runs rampant.
By comparison, fiat money (which is what we have) allows the money supply to be controlled to (theoretically) control inflation and deflation. It isn't always managed well, but the vast majority of economists agree that it's a better situation than using commodity money. - SLP1111, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13This isnt true, if the dollar here collapses you could take gold to say Europe and have a means of purchase. You can think of gold as a world wide currency- its value goes beyond borders and will always be worth something somewhere in the world. Any smart investor backs his portfolio with investments in precious metails such as gold. Its your only 'safe' bet in terms of investment oppurtunities.
- InetRoadkill, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11FAIL.
Pennies are made of zinc (since 1982). - slipgrid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Again, the value of gold doesn't change. They are decreasing the value of the dollar, but printing to many dollars.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -35/+45No civilization in history has ever maintained a currency that wasn't gold or backed by gold.
Smart money gets out of the US dollar. Its collapse is imminent. - greenm1981, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13If the dollar wasn't heading for a collapse, then why does the vice president own so many Euros?
- Rekutyn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10We let the Federal Reserve (private, not Federal) take over the creation of money. I think waging of wars to rack up debt is just a side-effect of that.
- bratpack8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10This is a typical response in today's world. Let someone else figure it out for me because the subject is too daunting. It is not rocket science. Go to mises.org, lewrockwell.com and read books and articles by the Austrian school economists such as Murray Rothbard, Mises, Rockwell, Hazlitt and many many others. Once you 'get it,' you will see that it is your responsibility to understand these issues.
- BESTenemy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Gold is just an agreed item representing value and accountability. If you can find a better substitute that would keep better cap on fractional reserve lending (that is a flawed system in itself), then I'd like to hear it.
Gold is good why? Cause it cannot be manufactured out of thin air. The mining rate is very low and the value of the actual material is high, as it is a soft, conducting, non-oxidizing material. It gets used up in semiconductor industry, so there is no market oversaturation. If we made something like diamonds the base of our currency value, then the synthetic diamond industry would become the new inflation machine. Diamonds can be manufactured cheaply. Gold molecules can be synthesized, but unless you have a particle collider in your backyard and millions of dollars worth of electric power to operate the facility, then you're not going to make it. Mining and refining is much cheaper for gold than synthesizing it.
The gold system has a limitation. Since it is finite it leads to segregation. The person that owns the most gold has the ability to control supply and demand, fixing rates in order to accumulate even more gold and eventually ends up constructing a monopoly. So, it's accountability vs. segregation.
I would not be too critical of gold system. I'd criticize monetary systems in general. There is no perfect one, and even those that look good on paper are open to abuse. In the current state, our problem is lack of accountability on behalf of those that run the presses - the FED. We need to switch to a finite substance backed monetary system, if not permanently, then temporarily, in order to recover from the damage done since separation from the gold by the Nixon administration. - bratpack8, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Yeah, it's a gold coin that is quickly becoming worth more than it is being sold at. Why? Because the Federal Reserve has continued to inflate the money supply even with rising interest rates. How do you think we have paid for the War in Iraq?
And why is a gold standard relevant? Because if money was based on gold and or silver, the government and Fed wouldn't be able to print a bunch of worthless money. - bratpack8, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10And we wonder who to blame when the crash comes. HubbertWins will blame everyone but himself for being ignorant of some very simple laws of economics.
- homerj1965, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9It's a planned collapse to bring in the AMERO, the currency of the North American Union.
- Rekutyn, on 10/10/2007, -5/+12You're woefully uninformed, friend.
No fiat currency in the history of the world has nor ever will be able to survive. Read some Noam Chomsky before you try leaving the kiddy pool next time. - BabaRamDass, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8"Most of those civilizations also thought that the sun was a god and that bloodletting would relieve you of evil spirits. Basing our currency on gold is pointless in the 21st century."
If you want to argue the merits (or lack thereof) of a gold-backed currency, great. But pointing to the unrelated asinine ideas of previous cultures has no relevancy to the topic at hand. That's like trying to invalidate the concept of democracy because they believed in several deities in Ancient Greece. - slipgrid, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11The value of gold doesn't change. The value of the dollar declined.
- swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -6/+13lol @ "not-so-far-fetched"
- BabaRamDass, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7jbarnes, it's not that the value of gold is increasing; it looks that way only because the value of the dollar is decreasing. More of it is going into circulation, and when you have more of anything, its value drops. (Basic supply and demand.)
- joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7i think you mean, everyone
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Yes, prosperous. By every measure of the ***** word.
- dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I dugg you up because you are correct, but I think it might actually have real investment value this time around as well given that gold and more specifically silver prices have been manipulated lower by the banks using naked shorts and various other shady tricks.
That being the case, gold can actually be bought at a discount to what its actual $ value should be, so when the manipulation inevitably ends and it reverts to its true dollar value which is probably well over $1000/oz, there is a nice profit to be made there, courtesy of the price-suppressing market manipulators. Therefore, I think it actually can be considered somewhat of an investment, but yes, primarily one buys gold to protect rather than to create wealth. - slipgrid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6That's BS. Gold has real value. You can't just make more of it. And, it's valuable for science. If the dollar really crashes, you'll be able to eat for a month off of one Silver Eagle.
- joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7*cough* Rome *cough*
- alittleroy101, on 10/10/2007, -8/+14I guess I have to just trust www.bullionmarketplace.com for my gold related news.
They have to be unbiased and impartial, right? - mgzzcool, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6We got away from Gold backed currency because of the limit on Gold availability = limit on the money available to spend...so our goverment opted/got swayed to move to a debt based money system.
More DEBT = More MONEY to spend.
Hence the reason we are encouraged to buy,buy buy on credit (lax mortgage regulations comes to mind) and overextend ourselves as a nation....so we as a nation can SPEND more money....(government)....so we have more money .....so we spend more money(on credit)...till it is completely worthless....(happening now)
too bad it doesn't work.......debt = bondage.....and all the real money...tangible assets revert back to the rich...
Funny how we place worth on things when the reality is the things that are worth anything aren't what we spend it on...family..people....etc.
In the end we can't take it with us......
sad to see the state we have found ourselves in.....as a nation....as a world.......
It's time to change our value system....not just our monetary system.....
just my 2 cents (in gold) - satanatnmtedu, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Nope. Native Americans are known to have used shiny shells or wampum as a currency. There were South American tribes that used large round stones as a currency. Before gold was used as a currency, barter was used. In some places, today, people use livestock as their currency.
And, gold is just another fiat system. How do you increase the monetary supply? You dig up more gold. Gold has no intrinsic value. And, people who think going back to the gold standard will save America somehow are not thinking. - theorem4, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6We did NOT officially declare war though, the President used his power as Commander-in-Chief to do it.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5If you don't have a lot of money to protect, I wouldn't recommend "INVESTING" in Gold to make money. Investing in Gold is typically done to protect wealth, not particularly to make it.
- quisp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5"Gold is just too hard to store in enough quantity to become a significant item to have stored at home."
An official statement from The US Department of Redundancy Department. - christopheles, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8I think his argument against gold is that the economy can produce a vast amount of goods and services with a value in excess of the shiny metal we keep in a fort.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Fear mongering? Eh, it looks like factual news to me. If you're not afraid of the U.S. economies direction you aren't reading enough yet.
- slipgrid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5At a higher value. It's $830 dollars. They are trying to reprice the Eagles, but it takes time. The government is bad at everything it does. People who collect bullion do it as an investment, for times like these.
- dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Go to the US Mint site like I did and see if you can buy a 1 oz Gold Eagle. Hint: I dugg you down.
- bratpack8, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Wow, did you actually pass Econ 101?
- joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7we shouldn't be producing more than what people are able to buy. ever stop and think about why the .com bubble happened or why the housing market is circling the drain? ... or even why the dollar is in decline. the rest of the world had looked to the dollar to hold it as a reserve currency, now that we've flushed it with our crazy borrowing and endless war we've screwed the entire world economy.
- theworldisflat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Damnit, I meant problem solved.
Let this be a lesson kids: Crack is whack. - dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Let's let history be our guide. When a fiat currency collapses, what usually comes in to take its place? From Wikipedia:
"The first historical example of paper as fiat money was in China. Chinese governments would produce “notes of credit” which were valued as tender for limited periods of time, in order to prevent inflation. The Song Dynasty (960–1279), however, created unlimited legal tender paper money, good throughout their empire, as a way of centralizing financial control, and preventing external trade. This money, however, was only as stable as the mandarinate that enforced it, and only as safe as the rigidity and integrity of the people who created it. Since it was easy to counterfeit and communication was slow, the Song experiment with paper money collapsed, as individuals preferred doing business through bank drafts or cheques, which were backed with gold or silver."
Here's a good link I found and a snippet I thought was worth reading:
http://www.goldpreciousmetals.com/moneyhistory.asp
This helps to illustrate one of the monetary roles of gold: A previously successful credit based system will eventually collapse under the weight of its historical circumstances and the excesses of credit which it is sucked into at the time of its greatest success. As the process of collapse unfolds one monetary store after another demolishes savers.
If they hold notional long term obligations like pensions the underwriters fail. If they hold institutional debt the issuers fail. If they hold bank notes and the banks fail. It takes very few failures before the population starts to see risk in every credit based construct. Their faith in their institutions evaporates, and they become acutely aware of the dangers of anything intangible, and anything whose supply can relatively easily be expanded. This is when they begin to think obsessively about things whose supply is subject to some fundamental limit.
It becomes possible to understand why gold re-materialises as the only good money in times of such great economic distress. During such a period the most valued asset is the one which is incorruptible, and because the scarcity of gold is almost uniquely beyond the power of men to change (and because it can be discreetly owned) it is gold which re-appears as the agent of wealth storage and transfer at the junctions between the much longer episodes of representative money. - dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4As opposed to a currency that can be manufactured by the trillions with a simple click of a few keyboard buttons? Yeah, I'd say gold's value is fairly constant.
I suppose there could be a giant mountain of gold somewhere that is yet undiscovered, but I also suppose there could be a manbearpig in my living room waiting to devour me.
History is proof. In ancient Rome, a toga and a pair of sandals costed about an ounce of gold. In 1900 before the central bank was formed, a $20 oz of gold could buy a suit and a pair of shoes. Today, despite gold's price having risen ridiculously since 1900, it's still worth just one suit and one pair of shoes. I'd say history proves fairly clearly that gold is pretty much a constant, whereas the price of gas over just the past 5 years proves that the dollar is anything but.
I can tell you took Econ 101. Now do yourself a favor and pick up a REAL book on economics by Mises or Rothbard. - adgreene, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9the value of gold has gone up. the value of the dollar has gone down.
- theorem4, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Copper on the outside, mainly Zinc though.
- dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The value of gold is the same today as it was a hundred years ago. The price fluctuates wildly due to the manipulation of our fiat money supply, but an ounce of gold a hundred years ago could buy you a suit and a pair of shoes. Same is still true today - gold's value is stoic.
- UglieJosh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Although I Dugg you up, Cronos, the problem with your theory is that it expects the government to be responsible and not just print money for "quick fixes" like it currently does.
- joel2600, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4so you're saying that you are growing crops with and eating paper money? gold is just a medium of exchange just like anything else. if i want your crops or your guns, i can give you an amount of gold because most likely we can come to an agreement on what the gold is worth. paper money is just that. paper.
- bffoley, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8You're fighting an uphill battle here. Ron Paul has said we need to go back on the gold standard and therefore most Diggers think its 100% perfect economic theory
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