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- WestonP, on 12/04/2008, -6/+142This bailout is against the wishes and interests of the American people, so it's bound to pass, just like the last one.
- EMFK, on 12/04/2008, -11/+95Yep! Count us in! We're opposed to any bailout for any industry in this country. You got yourselves into this damn mess---you fix it on your own time and dime.
Thanks for posting, Amy! - inactive, on 12/04/2008, -4/+55and its also bound to accomplish nothing, just like the last one
- tomakaze, on 12/04/2008, -0/+46Against bailouts in general principle, but it should be noted that all this airtime dealing with the Auto company bailouts is pretty much a dog & pony show to redirect peoples focus from the recent massive rape they pulled off on behalf of the banks...
- shawns, on 12/04/2008, -2/+31A good portion of midwest people, where the failure of the auto industry will be most felt, also don't want this to pass. This is a unified push against bailing out companies that don't produce products the market wants to buy
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 12/04/2008, -1/+20Here's the problem, whether you are for it or against it, it's not going to work. How is 25 billion, divided by 3 companies, going to kepp these guys in business? Their collective current debt dwarves 25 billion, and whether they have cash to operate or not... nobody wants to buy their products!! Certainly not in the quantity needed for them to survive.
What ticks me off the most is this is being discussed as if it's part of the 2008 global financial crisis. NO, where this is now is the end of the path that these companies have been walking on for more than a decade (especially chrysler). The financial crisis sped it up a little sure, but anybody who generally keeps up with current event has known for quite a while this moment was coming. - Hosalabad, on 12/04/2008, -3/+22This won't kill the industry if the big 3 fail. Honda is doing great these days.
- Rikkochet, on 12/04/2008, -2/+20Those 8200+ people will be out of work for a month and then be working at their same job in the same building, except their pay stub will say "Toyota" at the top instead of "GM'.
Relax. It's not the workers that are facing eradication - it's the company itself. Tangible things like skilled labour and manufacturing facilities don't get mothballed very often - they're extremely valuable. - inactive, on 12/04/2008, -6/+21Why should the average taxpayer subsidize greedy UAW pigs making ~$73/hr?
- SpectralSounds, on 12/04/2008, -1/+16Who gives a *****, right? We all know that the government will do whatever they damn well please anyway. Look at the opposition for all of the other bailouts. Everyone I knew called and emailed their reps and it didn't make a ***** worth of difference.
- Frnnkdlxx, on 12/04/2008, -3/+17So what? Alex Jones has recorded testimony from Congressmen and women that they were recieving thousand to one calls against the bank bailout. Yet that went through. A congresswoman even went as far as to admit that on one line, there were 9,000 to 1 calls by the American public against the bailout, which now stands at $7.4trillion!!!!!! WITH A T!!!!!! in less than 2 months! This makes the $2 trillion stolen by the Pentagon, which Rumsfeld admitted to, look like interoffice petty theft of pencils.
So, the U.S federal gov't is saying to us: WHO GIVES A DAMN about what you want. We're doing what benefits us and our high paying lobbyist pals and vested interests in Europe, like the Rothschilds and Harrimons. That's who's really benefitting. Because the destruction of U.S. hegemony ensures that they get to keep running the game of international, global politics from the top, since we will be too broke to pursue the very individuals who destructed us.
infowars.com - jmpeagle, on 12/04/2008, -2/+16which they paid back with federal dollar profits via their military contracts for CUCVs...They only survived because of the federal government. Just because people are honest and hardworking, doesn't mean the industry should be propped up.
If loaning to them is such a no brainer than someone besides the government will quickly step up. There is no need for federal money.
This is why we wrote bankruptcy laws. Just because they go into bankruptcy doesn't mean the company will dissappear. They can come back because bankruptcy will force rapid reorganization. - Xofre, on 12/04/2008, -1/+15why 6 out of 10, why not 3 out of 5?
- joe8pack, on 12/04/2008, -19/+32The poll shows most folks don't understand economics, but they are sick of bailouts and fat-cats.
If we allow the auto industry to die, it will only hurt the taxpayers and the citizenry, the management has its golden parachutes, its fat salaries and its substantial assets which will allow the wealthy to flee from the 3rd world America will become when the economy collapses because of the loss of the automotive industry.
We are like cats with our tails tied together, its uncomfortable, awkward and difficult, but if we don't work together, we all fail. If we lose the automotive industry, we lose an awful lot of ancillary industries and skill sets. We become a weaker nation and unable to even build our own cars. The depression will get even greater, even faster and the stock market will crater, home sales will collapse not for years, but for decades. We are in a tight spot, I'd rather give a 100 billion dollars to the auto industry than give 1.3 trillion (13 times the auto bailout) to the investment banking community as we have already done. At this point its just paper, we are all screwed if it doesn't improve, so lets take a chance we no longer have anything left to lose. - fuckingusername, on 12/04/2008, -2/+156 out of 10
who's the other 4 the ceos ?
whos gona bail out Jhon Doe when his little shop goes out of business ?
so guess what ...F U CEO's - Takfam, on 12/04/2008, -1/+13Okay, to those talking about job losses. You have to be joking. Did AIG's bailout money save jobs from being cut there? Nope, but the execs sure had fun on those lavish retreats.
Don't kid yourself, this isn't bail out money. It's alimony. It's cash to keep the execs in the lifestyle they've become accustomed to while their companies continue to bleed out. - Qumahlin, on 12/04/2008, -2/+14"Honda isn't American"
I suggest you look up how many Americans Honda employs. Do the same for Toyota. Then go read up on why Toyota and Honda are able to offer JIT while none of the American automakers are. - inactive, on 12/04/2008, -2/+14So WE help them out so they can keep selling US their overpriced product and they can become richer?
I need money too, maybe I should ride a bicycle to Washington just to show that I am being humble and have a press conference about how poor I am and how many people are going to be affected by my bankruptcy, then ask to start making payments until 2012 like they are. - Qumahlin, on 12/04/2008, -1/+12Not to mention who is going to want to buy a car from a company that you know is teetering on bankruptcy when you can go get a comparable or better model for the same price from a company that is financially stable.
The bigger concern is the parts market. Not many sites are discussing how devastating a failure in the parts market/suppliers would be to the entire industry. - doctechnical, on 12/04/2008, -0/+11Hell, most American cars aren't "American", if we're going by parts manufactured in the US of A.
- browe07, on 12/04/2008, -1/+12I'm pretty sure the poll numbers were the same if not worse for the last bailout and it passed. It just required a ton of pork to be added to push it through.
- rrife, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10This is America where the majority doesn't rule, the loudest group that whines the most rules.
- dortiis, on 12/04/2008, -5/+15Do you think that if they go down that that's it?
There are still cars out there, and someone will fill the gap. Maybe not completely, and they probably won't pay 5-10x the going rate for services, but adaptation is better than submission.
We cannot continue to let these companies stagnate and make money. - NonLeftistDiggr, on 12/04/2008, -1/+11Explain to us how 25 billion is going to help them survive, when their products, and brands for that matter, are unpopular AND their debt makes the bailout figure look like chump change?
- taxinfo07, on 12/04/2008, -6/+16I don't know that I'm against a bailout in principal especially since it's been done so much for so many others, but I do want to see what the automakers will do to try to justify the money spent. The bank bailout was supposedly to help free up the markets in general. This bailout is supposed to be about saving jobs for Americans. The banks didn't give a great plan on how they would free up the financial markets and we have what we have - no real change. I want to know how THIS bailout will make the companies stronger to save U.S. jobs.
- damonic, on 12/04/2008, -1/+11The problem I have is that there is no oversight. There was supposed to be with the bank bailout but the treasury dept admits that it has no idea where the money went. WTF? That's a problem.
- SpectralSounds, on 12/04/2008, -0/+9The reps are supposed to support their constituents agenda, not their own personal one. Also, those economic experts were the ones that caused this ***** storm in the first place.
- larryjr88, on 12/04/2008, -5/+13The 4 supporting it are the overpayed assembly line workers who want to keep their ridiculous salaries.
- MissMyZDtv, on 12/04/2008, -7/+15Hmmm..... Last auto "bailout" simply wasn't a bailout. This one will not be either. Unlike the bastard bankers who just got a hand out, these are loans that will make the US a nice profit. Chrysler paid its (circa 79') 10 year loan off in 3 years and paid fees and interest. In my area there are 8200+ auto jobs. These are good honest people who need to feed their children. With concessions from both Labor and management, this could work just fine.
- pintomp3, on 12/04/2008, -0/+8except the average union worker makes $28/hr, not $50. if you are going to use that comparison, please use accurate numbers. the larger figures have been debunked because they included things like benefits and pension of retired workers. one of the competitive advantages foreign auto companies have is they don't have to pay for health care, that's taken care of by the government. until we we universal health care in this country, our companies will always be at a disadvantage.
- iceman0113, on 12/04/2008, -0/+7As an economist, I opposed the bailout. If your company cannot do something simple as breaking even or making payroll, you should not be in business in the first place. What the bailout does is say, "Hey, if you fail we'll save you." When in fact, people need to fail in order to start new innovations and move towards something better.
- pintomp3, on 12/04/2008, -2/+9almost 6 out of 10 voted to violate the separation of church and state and take away rights by banning gay marriage.
- Briandrews15, on 12/04/2008, -2/+9I agree most people don't understand economics, but that especially includes you. You are confusing economics with self-preservation.
Economics... There is not enough demand for the big 3's products but they can't afford to reduce supply, so they want the citizenry to chip in. Economics says that companies who make products people don't want will fail. Economics says that the more demand your products have, the more profit you will make. Are you catching on? Economics says that buying bad debt with debt can only result in more debt. Economics says that a tax subsidized industry ignores supply/demand laws and will always fail, otherwise I'm all for it!
Since you seem to like talking point metaphors... The bailout is like cutting off your stuck arm to get to free. We are going to have a deep recession the only question is whether it will be fast/severe or long/progressive. We are not following any economic rules, in fact we are breaking them; so if you think this is economics you don't understand. The U.S. is now in the mode of doing whatever it takes to preserve its global viability. btw: The reason socialism fails is because central planners can't recognize demand for products. - Ne007, on 12/04/2008, -3/+10the rich are able to protect their asses because they hold all the cards...and all the money printing presses....
- squarepegs, on 12/04/2008, -1/+8I realize it, but why should we give the automakers money to make cars no one is going to buy?
If you want to donate your paycheck to CEOs who cry about their stock options, go right ahead. But I earn my money and I'm tired of sleazy politicians giving it away. - spyd3rweb, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6After several trillion for bailing out the banks whats a few billion more right?
- untitlednet, on 12/04/2008, -1/+7Buried as Inaccurate: One out of the six was bitten by a squirrel.
- iceman0113, on 12/04/2008, -1/+7http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZFwRAfkV1g 91,000 total calls, 85,000 people opposing the bailout and she voted for it. 93.4% people called in and emailed her opposing it and she called the people that she's representing dumb.
- tiology, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6So did the under 25 generation 25 years ago.
- GoneGreen, on 12/04/2008, -2/+8The other 40% either work for the auto industry or will be directly affected by it's downfall.
- shootsfired, on 12/04/2008, -5/+11State your source that they make $73/hr. Oh wait they don't.
- dalittle, on 12/04/2008, -1/+7Running your business badly is not a right of every really really rich American and throwing good money after bad is dumb. Life is also not fair, deal with it.
- bluehouse, on 12/04/2008, -6/+11Just because 6 out 10 people disagree doesn't mean it's a good idea to let the auto industry go under. At some point in our country's history, 6 out of 10 people thought segregation was a good idea
- Valyn, on 12/05/2008, -0/+5I dont see how the bailout will help. Just yesterday thay said that GM lost like 40% of its sales from Oct to Nov. Even with the bailout, nobody is going to buy their cars anymore. So how does throwing money at it help? They already died, they just have not announced it yet.
- macgregg0r, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5I agree with those '6 out of 10'. I think that they should just let the auto companies suffer. Like it's mentioned in a post above, is the government going to bailout the mom and pop stores in risk of going out of business. I don't think so. So in my opinion, let the auto companies suffer. Don't use taxpayer money to help the auto companies.
- racerxjj67, on 12/04/2008, -1/+6Have any of you actually paid attention to what the auto makers proposed? Much more of a plan than the banks proposed, which was nothing! Did the banking moguls volunteer to work for $1 salary? ***** no! Did they dump all their jets? See previous response. But yet they get 7 hundred billion dollars and then turn around and spin their self-proposed bonus' as "retention bonus". What's that mean? That in order to get this money they just have to promise not to quit. I don't know about you, but if someone was going to give me seven million dollars...I don't think I'm quitting. Yes, the auto execs were fools for flying private jets to the hearings the first time. Yes they made some poor decisions and moved too slow on innovation. But what ***** hypocrites sitting on the congressional floor, questioning these millionaires, fly back and forth to vacation homes, family vacations, etc., on your dollars in private jets? Don't hear anyone pissing and moaning about that. Plus, the banks aren't required to payback any bit of their "gift" where the auto companies are required to payback their entire "gift". You think letting the big three disappear is going to help the economy? It's very apparent you all live in states that have nothing to do with the auto industry or have family members who work/ed for one, i.e., suppliers, manufactures, advertising, etc. Think about this. If the GM/Chrysler deal actually went through; 3,000 people just in southeastern Michigan would be unemployed virtually overnight. And that has nothing to do with being lazy. That in a state that has the highest unemployment rate already. We rely on the auto industry, and I'm not happy with what has gone on over the last decade because we saw it coming long before anyone else. Not surprisingly the majority of people in this country don't know or pay attention to anything related to the auto industry until something like this happens. Just think about the long term affects of not allowing this to happen and think about the regular people...the middle class that primarily keep this country moving. That's all I'm asking. I'm not trying to pick fights, just want people to put a rational thought behind what they say and look at the big picture. Question your government who wouldn't even sit down and talk to the auto companies (upon their request) during his worthless 2 terms. Geez, I wonder why?
- AndrewMoyer, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5If we could only get that to "8 out of 10 disapprove", our "representative" government would expedite approving the bailout.
- Frnnkdlxx, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5Speaking of economic experts calling Alex Jones, here's a quick list:
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, father of Reaganics, which plotted our course out of stagflation.
Max Keiser, someone who's credentials are too numerous to identify here, but whose credibility is world reknowned
Congressman Ron Paul, whom we all know and whose economic opinions have won him awards worldwide
man others. many, many others. So yes, his is an opinion and intellect which we can "bank" on.
And addressing your other argument that he profits on fears and death.... uhh.. what? isn't he the guy with the youtube vid that has him announcing that there will be a giant terrorist attack 2 weeks before 9/11 and of him actually going to the world trade towers to warn people about it? then, afterwards, you call him a liar, a joke, a fearmonger, when all it is apparent he's doing is warning people?
hmm.... Please, kind sir, take deep inside your mind so I can find where you acquire your "logic"... SO I CAN KILL IT! *unsheathes book* - bchristie, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5It is not the government's money. It belongs to the taxpayers.
If the government has a specific plan, they should write it down on paper. Then they should submit it to the voters for approval.
The current process is theft. -
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