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Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database

realitybasedcommunity.net — The CoS can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust?

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  • Edwaldo, on 02/20/2008, -3/+279Good article, if the ex-Scientologist individual retains possesion of an artifact, it's his, not the church's. I'd like to see Anonymous go ahead and take out the Scientologist accounts on eBay next.
    • xptoast, on 02/20/2008, -1/+37Yes that would be nice. The attacks must grow stronger till we take them out.
      • Enlightenment, on 02/20/2008, -1/+11Did anyone notice that Amazon removed all the low reviews for "Dianetics" book, again?
        http://www.amazon.com/Dianetics-Modern-Science-Men ...
        • mateo60, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11Honest question: Do you think it was Amazon that removed them? OR If enough people clicked "NO" on the "was this review helpful?" button then the review is eventually removed. For all I know, Scientology has a few people who scour sites like Amazon clicking "NO" on negative reviews.
          I don't know. Just a thought.
          • lepton, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6True fact. Did you know, many times, they have been caught buying up their own books in retail stores to inflate sales and get on best seller lists, then selling them back to the same stores again as the publishers? They were famously caught once with old retail store price tags on newly distributed books. These guys are a laff a minit. Or at least they would be if it was the only mischief they made.
        • fatfattymcfat, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10But these are the "Tags associated with this product."

          cult (349)
          fraud (330)
          junk science (271)
          evil (265)
          avoid at all costs (255)
          insane (251)
          crazy (244)
          snake oil (218)
          quackery (105)
          scientology (98)
          dangerous (21)
    • qwertydvorak, on 02/20/2008, -1/+28it shows that the scientologists don't have a smart one in the bunch. anyone knows that if they want to be able to control something you only allow it up for lease. the terms can be set and enforced that way. for reference see GM's EV-1.
    • MrObjectional, on 02/20/2008, -14/+4I thought Anonymous' whole purpose was to get congress to investigate their tax-free status? He shouldn't have authority to delete eBay accounts.
      • joot2112, on 02/20/2008, -8/+4since when does hacking respect "authority"?
        • schroeder, on 02/20/2008, -1/+13Since when has Anon's attack on Scientology involved hacking?
          • Dantetheinferno, on 02/20/2008, -11/+2Anon DDOS'd CoS' Webserver.
          • l33tspam, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10Since when is DDOS hacking?
          • H3LLSL337, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10So does Digg DDoS when it hits a server that can't handle the load? It's the exact same thing that was done to $cifags servers. It was not a DDoS attack as there was no actual botnet. It was humans hitting the servers, they just happened to reload quite a bit. Can't blame the user, it's the $cifags fault for not having better equipment.
          • MrObjectional, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8So... Anon has just orchestrated a protest...

            And the whole message seems to be: "arm yourself with knowledge about scientology."

            NOT "omg scientology must die"
    • j1ggy, on 02/20/2008, -1/+20Good luck. Negative feedback is about to disappear.
    • Nitesmoke, on 02/20/2008, -0/+39If anyone really wants an e-meter all they have to do is tie jump rope handles to a battery, and viola! Instant fake device.
      Can you imagine what would happen if Christians tried to ban the sell of crosses and the crucifix outside the church, would ebay comply?
    • davidsmero, on 02/20/2008, -5/+33Reason #348348334 why eBay is gay.
      • insignificance, on 02/20/2008, -15/+4Wait... eBay prefers sexual relationships with corporations of the same gender?

        No?

        Oh, you were using gay as an insult. I see. Classy.

        • gremlinchief, on 02/20/2008, -2/+11No, he was saying eBay was happy. Learn your English.
    • samssf, on 02/20/2008, -0/+21Wow, ebay just lost all my respect. Sweet. You'd think they'd be smart enough to not do that.
    • kymike, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8So _that's_ why eBay is so freaking expensive...they get their business model from Scientology.
    • abstractual, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10March 15th
    • Jaliyl, on 02/20/2008, -1/+4Wasn't there a boycott against eBay recently? Anonymous should start another.
    • JMWarden, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3If I had needed another reason to discontinue activity on eBay... this would have done it for me. So would the move to eliminate negative feedback. As it stands, I thankfully stopped using their wretched site years ago when shipping costs went ballistic.
  • oboy, on 02/20/2008, -8/+187In related news, North Korea has been granted access to our nuclear science database.
    • xdcc, on 02/20/2008, -2/+23old news, china has been sharing it with them for a while.
      • Akufen, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3According to Sibel Edmonds China is the least of our worries when it comes to sharing nuclear information. But I think it's safe to say that those who have something to sell will sell it for the right price. Living in a democractic country or the west doesn't change that.
  • UberNick, on 02/20/2008, -2/+210FTA: "It's possible to argue that Scientology is engaging in price fixing ...unfair competition, discriminatory business practices..."

    Anyone know if we can file a legitimate complaint with the Better Business Bureau for this? I just happen to be in the market for an e-meter, and they're price fixing! Class action? Anything?
    • XNihil0Zer0, on 02/20/2008, -0/+35It's possible to argue? No, its blatantly obvious.
    • bigskank, on 02/20/2008, -0/+46Yes, it is very possible. Under the Sherman Antitrust Act, price fixing is illegal. Price fixing has been defined by the supreme court as any action by two or more parties aimed at raising, pegging, or stabilizing prices. In order to sue under Sherman, you would have to allege that ebay and CoS are acting in concert (Sherman Act requires a "contract, combination, or conspiracy"... a single actor can't violate it without being a monopoly).

      Short answer: Yes, it's possible
      • mtwolf, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5not really since ebay isn't really "selling" the product, just providing a space to sell it. Not much different than leasing retail space.
    • purzzzell, on 02/20/2008, -0/+25the Better Business Bureau is essentially useless
    • chronusmcgee, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8There is only one problem with the price fixing thing. Not too many people think anything Co$ has to offer is worth more than a smoking turd.
      • joot2112, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8Unfortunately this is not true, and that's why you ended up with a dollar sign in your abbreviation there. There are thousands of people being bilked of thousands of dollars by these predatory assholes.
      • samssf, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6Dugg for smoking turd.
      • farboo, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Hey! I invested my life savings in smoking turd futures!
    • AZNL473ncy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Well since their considered a "business" I'm sure we could. Don't they have some sort of business "branch"?

      I was actually thinking that they are defined as a business somewhere and that they could probably get in a lot of trouble for their business practices.
    • stevealford, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5The Better Business Bureau is basically a subscription service for reputation. You pay a membership fee and none of the complaints filed against you get lodged. If you don't become a member, they post the complaints. It's basically racketeering without the thumb-breaking... and the BBB essentially has no power except that the general public is ignorant of their true nature and actually believes they're a group that looks out for public interest and polices business practices.
    • Mootabolife, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8An emeter would be an awesome party gag.
    • roflbrothel, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8Better Business Bureau? Yeah, go ahead and tell them but it won't do you any good. I think you want the Federal Trade Commission. That's where you go when someone is breaking regulations. They have the teeth, the BBB is more of a consumer advocate.
    • imfbsbn, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10Diggers are so smart except when it comes to the law. The action you're looking for is the First Sale Doctrine. It means that you can sell something even covered by CR/Patent/TM as long as you rightfully own it. Then, what the Co$ does is tortuously interfere with your contract with eBay. As the cause of action is in tort punitive damages are generally possible (consult legal counsel in your state.)

      Any questions?
  • GhostyBoy, on 02/20/2008, -2/+315How the ***** is this cult so resourceful?
    • Ineedanap, on 02/20/2008, -0/+87uhhhhh.... might want to ask Tom Cruise about that one, that and all his MONEY- along with the rest of the hollywood types who follow this cult.
      its all about money, and they happen to have an ass ton of it.

    • Drogoganor, on 02/20/2008, -0/+30I don't know, but these bastards are pissing off a lot of people. They can only push for so long before people start pushing back. And that's exactly what's started to happen.
      • thanakar, on 02/20/2008, -3/+1Just exactly who are they pissing off? I'm not a Scientologist, nor any of my friends, but I could CARE LESS what Scientology does. They don't bother me and I don't bother them. If someone is so addle brained that they fall for the Scientologist ***** then they deserve everything they have coming to them. There are more important things to worry about than what Scientology is doing.
    • antiorblkflag9, on 02/20/2008, -0/+19Money, and with said money they are armed to the teeth with lawyers who are ready to file lawsuit at any second.
      • tgc1, on 02/20/2008, -1/+0They're not the only ones with attorneys.
    • Thex1138, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10There must be a few Scientologists working at EBay and at least a few, if not a lot more corporations..don't forget they're churchified so they have certain 'privileges' attached to that..
    • bobwoodard, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7It isn't too surprising that LRH was very specific to his followers that lawyers (and by extension, the law) should be used at every opportunity to intimidate and harass Co$ foes.
    • CannibalTom, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Lawyers.
    • roflbrothel, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6They aren't resourceful, they just have lots of money.
    • Zippo, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5money talks
      • thanakar, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2But it can't sing and dance and it can't walk...
    • linuxpenguin, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Read the article - this is actually one of eBay's programs. The owner of any intellectual property can have their intellectual property removed from the site's auctions. It's really meant so that companies can stop counterfeits from being sold online, but in this case, it's being used.
      As far as the greediness factor. . . my god, did anyone else notice the auction prices? Good lord - you could buy a PSP, a DS, a Wii, a 360, and a PS3 and still have money left for those kind of prices! You'd have far more useful technology too.
    • encrypteduser, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4They have mastered many types of social engineering/mind control techniques. Bundle that with money, greed, a holier-than-thou attitude and the desire/need for continual expansion added with the general ignorance/acceptance of their "religion" by the masses and this type of control is gained over time.
    • Himself, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3behold the power of the dark side
    • Chahrlie5, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2$$$
  • reeder, on 02/20/2008, -9/+130Ebay needs to go down hard. Just like very other corporation, when they get to a certain size, they think they can do anything, to the detriment of their users.

    I guess what I am saying is: "***** you Ebay!"
  • swaddict, on 02/20/2008, -2/+126Just another reason to dump ebay
    • chronusmcgee, on 02/20/2008, -2/+21Anyone who cooperates with Co$ must be boycotted.
    • BobOki, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3"***** ebay" and go where to get my cheap stuff?
    • kevyn, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1dear ebay...its not working out... i'm sorry
  • vroom101, on 02/20/2008, -3/+42From the article:

    . . . The mechanism that permits the Church of Scientology (and others) such broad access and discretion is called the Verified Rights Owner ("VeRO") Program [ http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.htm ... , pages.ebay.com/help/tp/programs-vero-ov.html ]. Membership in VeRO is obtained simply by submitting a form to eBay explaining that you are an Intellectual Property rights holder.

    It should come as little surprise that VeRO members routinely overreach, as the cost of challenging a listing removal is almost always prohibitive. (See my paper on this subject here [ http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/eBay-VE ... ], and see the brave husband and wife exception to this rule here [ http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.htm ... ].) The VeRO Program makes a great deal of sense for some types of listings--counterfeit Rolexes and Gucci handbags appear on eBay with such frequent regularity that those companies would be hard pressed to handle these trademark violations any other way. . . .
    • AriaStar, on 02/20/2008, -0/+16But this isn't regarding taking down counterfeits. They are removing authentic e-meters.
  • diggitny, on 02/20/2008, -0/+57This provides an interesting issue for affecting the thing the CoS most cares about, the cashola. The owner of an e-meter who has paid good money for it should be able to sell it on the open market. Is there some kind of contract that Scientologists sign which prohibits them from selling the e-meter? If you buy the Dianetics book, of course you can sell it to a used book store. Same with other tapes and materials. Once you own them, you can sell them to anyone else. Same should apply to e-meters. Hope someone looks into this.
    • Endit, on 02/20/2008, -2/+19Scientologist: Those are only your thetans speaking. Now back to your corner so I can brainrape you some more.
    • azbmr, on 02/20/2008, -2/+3I think it might only have to do with the fact that the meter is/was in the hands of a suppressive person. I wonder if a current, good-standing member could sell one on eBay. I know that we can sell them used to others (not on eBay), so I'm not sure what is up here. Yes, the article is a little misleading since you can sell them if you aren't actually labeled suppressive.

      Every couple of years one sends a meter in to get re-certified anyway. The problem they could be attempting to avert is the possibility of a tweaked meter with a cert that says it is good for more than a year.
      • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2If a 'current, good-standing member' tried that, they wouldn't be good-standing for long. According to the church its very dangerous to use an e-Meter without proper training, so taking one outside of church regulation is very downstat and probably an instant ticket to the Rehabilitation Project Force for rock-breaking duty (Technicly voluntary, but the only way to get out is to leave the church entirely, and we know how unpleasant they make that).
        • azbmr, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Wow, way to throw around a bunch of terms and ideas that you actually don't know anything about. I think you have being in the Sea Org confused with being a scientologist. Being a scientologist is no where near as stringent as being a member of the Sea Org. Not everyone who leaves the Sea Org, or Scientology in general, is declared a suppressive person. Think of it like this: not all lapsed Catholics, including priests, are excommunicated.

          The RPF is a part of the Sea Org and consists of basic grunt/janitorial work. It is not the "only way to leave the church." My sister-in-law left the Sea Org, and didn't have to do any rock breaking. She's not currently a scientologist and she isn't a declared suppressive person.

          By the way, you are mis-using the term "downstat." When you work in a church or any other Hubbard Management-based organization, you have some measurable, quantifiable way of keeping track of how well you are doing your job. An example could be that if you are a receptionist, you keep track of how many calls you answer and route to the correct person. This is called your statistic, and every job has at least one. Each week, you can tell how you are doing at your job based on how your statistic is doing (whether it is up or down and how much better or worse it is). So "downstat" would simply mean that your statistic(s) is/are low, and you need to take care of that.
          • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Scientology is hard to understand - they seem to have their own language. Im not sure about downstat (I thought it was a term meaning 'detrimental to productivity,' which selling the e-meters probably would be). The RPF was a misunderstanding of my post - I did not mean to say that going through RPF is the only way out of the church, I means the inverse - that while CoS claims RPF to be a voluntary program, once someone is entered into it the only ways they can get out are either to impress their superiors or to leave the church entirely, as any 'voluntary' withdrawal without authorisation would result in expulsion anyway. And yes, I am aware that the stricter controls like RPF are reserved only for Sea Org and other high up people - I merely assumed that only people fairly deep in the organisation would recieve control of the e-meter, a piece of equipment which is not only very expensive in itsself but which the CoS will only supply to people who have been through a sufficient amount of auditing and a specialised course in its correct use.
          • azbmr, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1You are right that some of the things are tricky to understand without the correct background and foundational information first. That is actually part of the reason there is so much emphasis on control regarding parts of Scientology.

            Just to let you know, I'm a plain parishioner and I have one and I'm trained in how to use it for a course called Method 1. In Method 1, you learn the basics of how to be an auditor and you train on the use of an e-meter. After a couple more courses, you come back to the e-meter training and learn a few new things while getting more precise on what you learned in Method 1. Once you've done this Pro Metering course, you fully understand how an e-meter works and how to use one completely. It really isn't hard at all to get one and get trained to use one, and there is no need to become a Sea Org member. :)
          • azbmr, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1Whoops, I forgot to mention that leaving during the RPF portion of the Sea Org will not get you expelled. You may leave the Sea Org, but you are still welcome to be a scientologist. I know more than a handful of ex-SO folks who are still scientologists. Again, if you are a priest that leaves the priesthood, can't you still be catholic?
    • imfbsbn, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1This is right-on. It's called the First Sale Doctrine. Wiki has it.
    • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Part of the article explains the problem with that - noone wants to buy the brainwashing books except other scientologists. Once someone leaves they are left with a huge pile of books, tapes, CDs, charts, and perhaps an e-Meter that they paid perhaps tens of thousands of dollars for - but they cant resell it, because to non-scientologists its all worth next to nothing, and scientologists are forbidden from buying their materials from anyone except the CoS in-house publishing company and espicially from ex-members.
      • azbmr, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2What it doesn't make clear is that by "ex-members" it means excommunicated members. Ex-members that aren't declared suppressive can talk to whom ever they want to and sell whatever they want. When a person is declared suppressive, all scientologists are to cut all communication to this person. That is why they can't sell their stuff.
  • MCCULLAH, on 02/20/2008, -2/+37who would want to buy the e-meter nyway?
    • twishart, on 02/20/2008, -0/+15I didn't know what it was. I vaguely remember the Ghostbusters using something like it.
      • baronvonrolo, on 02/20/2008, -0/+15Mr. Spengler actually used a P.K. Meter.
        I hear they work on the same principles anyways, those principles being, if it's got flashy lights and gauges it doesn't actually have to do anything.... much like the iPhone... I kid, I kid!
    • indyGuy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+35I'd like to have one just to disassemble and post photos of it on the interwebs
    • joot2112, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2I guess all the people who are buying them from the Scientologists want one. Shouldn't they be able to buy it without all the brainwashing pocket-picking cult tactics attached?
      • lepton, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1I'll tell you the cults excuse for doing this with E-Meters. Some time back there was a lawsuit that ended up condemming the E-Meter as a bogus medical device. Indeed, that's how the cult was selling it on the open market. So they got a deal whereby they could still scam it to their customers I mean "parishoners" but they are forbidden to sell them to the general public any more, only to "qualified" "ministers" who have purchased I mean studied the courses in how to scam I mean use it to cure disease I mean cast out evil body thetans.

        So the cult uses this as the base for getting the meters off eBay so they can sell them at absurd I mean reasonable prices I mean donations. They say the devices aren't permitted to be sold to the general public by law, and eBay buys this lie. In fact it is only that the devices can not be sold as a medical device.

        Did you know this fascinating fact, that every meter has by law a warning saying among other things and I quote "...this device does nothing" and is only a "religious artifact". Yep it's true!
    • Mootabolife, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11Question.. if you're smart enough to buy an emeter from ebay and save cash.. why are you a scientologist?
    • dhughes, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2 Definitely not someone with one arm, there's no way a one-armed person could become a Scientologist.
      • lepton, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1A one armed man would be kicked to the curb. They only "make the able more able" to quote some sacred scripture for ya.
    • gwhardyiv, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5I want one. I'll audit you for half of what CoS charges.
    • bobartig, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3As a former scientist, I have a strange fascination with objects that supposedly teach us about the natural world, but don't, such as phrenology maps, palmistry charts, crystal balls, and emeters.
    • ours, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1The "Free Zone" dudes perhaps. Their the "open source"-ish version of scientology. I've read they offer the same stuff for no cash so more power to them even if on don't believe in those things.
  • Accolade1, on 02/20/2008, -3/+10Can I now pay for items by admitting murders and crimes?
  • Totz83, on 02/20/2008, -48/+1This is getting ridiculous, scientology did not rape your father!
  • aimhelix, on 02/20/2008, -6/+20Who cares now - Scientology is dead, or will be soon. These retarded e-meters are just collectibles now. I wouldn't mind having one, to remind me when I'm 92 yrs old of how retarded this reli.. cult is.
    • etx313, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2How are they close to dead? They aren't going anywhere until more ***** get off the ***** couch and stand up for your rights!
      • thanakar, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1Um.what rights are we referring to? No one is infringing on your rights to totally ignore Scientology. People in this country are free to believe in anything they want, that IS thier right. By denying them that right then you are in the wrong.
  • chrisaug18, on 02/20/2008, -8/+3no
  • ryanonfire, on 02/20/2008, -1/+30Mysterious viral marketing, killing people and making it look like suicide and now this WTF
  • Mikhail101, on 02/20/2008, -1/+27anonymous doesnt need to fight just Scientology but the assholes backing it.
  • borez, on 02/20/2008, -2/+60Just build your own then

    http://www.ralphhilton.org/emeter/
    • antiorblkflag9, on 02/20/2008, -0/+7That site will be gone tomorrow
      • BoneheadFarker, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0Right click...Save Page As...
    • Thex1138, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5Well there's one demonstration of how scabby the whole Scientology thing is.. so much emphasis on this poxy piece of junk when 'auditing'. I wondeer how many 'auditors' have been mystified by this device and the 'results' it gives them...and how they 'read' it as a measurring device..being Clear or an OT you'd think this kind of device were a bit of a farce and see it for it's worth[lessness]...
    • skyshock1, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3http://www.ralphhilton.fzaoint.net/emeter/Mk4.htm

      Quick, someone cache it.
    • tgc1, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0I could tell you how. You get some popsicle sticks, some glue, and some string. And then you go find someone really gullible to hold onto them. And then you get your reading.
    • borez, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Edit: The guy also has the software on his site for one too

      http://www.ralphhilton.org/
  • waynetheman, on 02/20/2008, -2/+45I find it interesting, especially in light of the VeRO Program info (above), that no one has noticed that the bulk of Scientology's strength revolves around the concept of copyright.

    Without copyright, they wouldn't make millions off of Hubbard's books. Without copyright, they'd have no legal standing to prosecute others who put up information or talk about them, or to pressure groups/companies like eBay and bend them to their will.

    Isn't it time we started taking a serious look at the legitimacy of this unintuitive (and historically recent) concept of "intellectual property"?
    • arw371, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10That would be the greatest blow to Scientology.

      Somehow damage their ability to claim these things.
    • chrispix, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4I don't think we really have to look at the legitimacy and unituitve concept of intellectual property, when the property is not in the least intellectual.
    • CycloneTH, on 02/20/2008, -2/+1Can "churches" even hold copyright over their religious texts? I'm pretty sure the Bible, Torah, and Q'ran aren't copyrighted.
    • Obelia, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2Copyright may be a source of income for the CoS, but it's also an important source of income for a lot of good causes as well. Great Ormond Street Hospital, for instance, which benefits from all the sales of Peter Pan books.

      The answer is not to attack copyright, but simply to avoid reading LRH's books or watching films like Battlefield Earth, or anything with Tom Cruise in it.
    • Myonosken, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2@Wayne: Except IP is fairly used by most people. Lets be honest, if someone spends years writing a novel, they damn well except to be protected by the law and not to have John Smith nicking bits.
    • KlogereEndGrim, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4Copyright needs to be changed, just look at RIAA for another example of copyright war against the little guy.
  • Typhoon2009, on 02/20/2008, -17/+6How about people who try to sell their e-meters send them back to the Cult of Scientology with a bomb in it?
    • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0Good idea, stoop to their level.
      *Sleeping with one eye open tonight, if at all*
  • h0ser, on 02/20/2008, -3/+77i just cancelled my ebay account. They can go to hell.
    • and303, on 02/20/2008, -14/+4Because of an article you read on Digg? lol
      • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Not because of the article smart one. Obviously because of the articles it describes.
        • and303, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Wait, did you read it? Really?
          Because the title of it states that Ebay gave the CoS administrative access to their auctions, when in actuality, Ebay simply removed the items that infringed their own terms of service.
    • purzzzell, on 02/20/2008, -13/+1don't blame ebay for *****' sake
      • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0Yes, blame eBay - I don't trust anyone stupid enough to trust CoS with the power to remove items at will, or very close to so.
    • liquidpele, on 02/20/2008, -1/+5I dumped ebay for craigslist a *long* time ago.
      craigslist is both simplier, free, and the people are easier to work with because you usually meet them in person. Same amount of scams, but at least with craigslist they can't but it at reserve price and then try to have you ship it to Nigeria, causing you to have to re-list the auction at $5.
    • tgc1, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Congratulations.
  • someone173406, on 02/20/2008, -2/+28Sooner of later, someone will see this message.
    "This item cannot be sold due to thetans."
  • DesignEx, on 02/20/2008, -0/+21Anonymous should really come up with DIY plans for these e-meters, and distribute them freely.
  • gooovil, on 02/20/2008, -1/+23It's more or less an ammeter or voltmeter properly calibrated to skin resistance: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/cos-eme ...

    And that technology is so obsolete. You can get digital meter for ten bucks or so with battery last longer :-)
    • sloppychris, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1No dice on the link.
    • gooovil, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8Sorry It was a link to gif image and the extension got cut off. Here is a more complete page: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/
    • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2No, for this application, analog is best. The instruction manual explains how to read it - its not an absolute reading that matters, its short-term change. There should be a brief rise when the subject is thinking of traumetic engrams, and to see short-term trends analog is much easier to read than digital. None of which changes the fact that its a piece of overpriced and completly usless crap which depends for its functioning on a theory with about as much real-world accuracy as the four humors.
      • BoneheadFarker, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0I was about to bury you until I realized you weren't actually advocating their use...
        • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1If it actually did work, analog would be the correct choice of dial. I suspect the real reason for using analog is much simpler though: Hubbard designed it back when digital meters wern't cheaply available, and the modern CoS is very reluctant to tamper with his design.
  • thorgrim, on 02/20/2008, -3/+10Why would anyone want an eMeter? It says quite plainly in some CoS training material that it does nothing and isn't used for any diagnosis purpose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter
    • Chaoticfist, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6Some one corrected the page. It now says Cult of Scientology. I swear it was not me :)...... Who am i kidding yes it was me.
      • Chaoticfist, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3Bitchs....I tried. They changed it back in like 4 mins. Assholes.
  • nexmachina, on 02/20/2008, -0/+10Dumped ebay 2 years ago.
  • tripledjr, on 02/20/2008, -1/+95000$ for a volt meter? u can pick one up for like 10$, also not quite sure how it constitutes a collectors item, its been around for quite a while.
    • samssf, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11. Join CoS
      2. Build eMeters
    • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1The huge markup at two purposes: First, pure profit. Second, credability. If someone has spent that much money on an e-meter they are much more likely to believe it to be a precision scientific instrument than they would be if they had paid $20 for it.
    • lepton, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1You don't know the half of it. I think they are up to the Mark VIII meter now. Guess what? Retire that expensive Mark VII meter and get yourself an expensiver Mark VIII or your auditing won't be up to snuff! And if your auditing isn't up to snuff you are dead dead dead we don't want no poor auditors round here. And you better take those new reasonably priced courses in how to use it, as things have been updated to get better, quicker, faster results. Hurry! Hey, maybe you can unload that Mark VII junk to some schlump on eBay! Nah, better not. Or we'll getcha.
  • bfrank72, on 02/20/2008, -0/+9Why would access to auction deletions be given to anyone but site owners and admins in the first place? Not a rhetorical question, I really would like to know.
    • sevenout7, on 02/20/2008, -2/+2The "Church" does not have direct access to ebay to delete auctions willy nilly. However, they practically have the same thing via the Vero program. All they have to do is claim infringement and ebay will pull the auction without so much as even looking at the auction because the "Church" has a signed, sworn statement on file.
      • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2Wrong! Read the article:
        If you’re uninitiated to eBay, you’d probably think that for each of these removals, the Church of Scientology informs eBay of the violation of its rights, eBay considers the merits of their argument, and then only then does eBay yank the listing. But that’s not what happens at all. Instead, eBay effectively deputizes Scientology, which logs into eBay and removes the listings itself.
    • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -1/+1Money. Money, money, money money money.
    • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3It is given to the "copyright/patent holder" after a vero application to ebay. This is to take the strain off of ebay when it comes to removing counterfiet listings as copyright holding companies can remove them directly. It does say this in the article ;)
  • anamericangod, on 02/20/2008, -0/+22I want to leave them negative feedback.
  • bigteebo, on 02/20/2008, -1/+28Who do these guys think they are? RIAA?
    • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -0/+3No, but they have enough money to be more annoying than the RIAA.
    • Jones82, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2If only there was some succinct way to express my disapproval of the RIAA
    • KlogereEndGrim, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1***** THE RIAA
  • LMaxey, on 02/20/2008, -1/+24Just went to eBay
    Searches for "scientology e meter" bring up a blank screen
    Tried basketball, scientology, and e meter: They all worked
    Back to scientology e meter and nothing
    Not very discrete are they
  • blackanode, on 02/20/2008, -7/+15***** the RIAA!!
  • iblaine, on 02/20/2008, -15/+2So, Scientology is one of many people using some eBay API to pro actively address copyright issues? What's the big deal with that?
    • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -2/+21. Unrestricted access
      2. Scientology is oh so blatantly just an entity to collect money, and when they get access like that its just.. stupid, it really is.
    • GramarNatzi, on 02/20/2008, -0/+6How is this a copyright issue? What is being traded is the device itself, not its blueprints which would be intellectual property and therefore subject to copyright laws.
    • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2The fact that they don't hold the copyright maybe?
    • cidman2001, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1GramarNatzi is right...and furthermore the patents on the device have expired!
    • heystoopid, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2forgotten much about common law fair use doctrine have we ?
  • sonicularulus, on 02/20/2008, -1/+16damn. and i was about to sell my e-meter for $0.99 with no reserve.... :(


  • rpi22, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8I can build emeters, i should set up my own business! Thanks Wheatstone!
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/patent- ...
  • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -2/+5Huh, sounds like money was involved in this. A lot of money.
  • aggiDPlease, on 02/20/2008, -0/+12Anyone notice when you search 'emeter' in the ebay search bar, it will change your input to 'exeter', even when combined with other terms. 'Scientology emeter' will become 'Scientology exeter'. Either a strange coincidence or there's some validity to these claims...
    • centran, on 02/20/2008, -0/+2I never knew ebay "corrected" your search. Is this something knew?
      Try searching canonn. It will change it to canon.
    • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4if theres no items listed under that search term it will change it to a similarly spelt common search term. I don't think ebay are intentionally allowing this to happen, its more CoS abusing their Vero agreement with ebay.
    • LesPaul75, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Yes, the change happens because "emeter" returns zero results. So it is changed to "exeter," which produces 240 results. There's even a message right underneath the search box that explains the change, along with an "Undo" link to change it back to emeter.

      However, it is a little odd that searching for "emeter" produces zero results. There are already some auctions listed with the words "e-meter" and "exeter" in the title, so you'd think "emeter" would be there, too...
  • fraglessone, on 02/20/2008, -0/+14Type in "emeter" in ebay's search, it changes your search to exmeter! EBAY SUCKS
    • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -1/+3if theres no items listed under that search term it will change it to a similarly spelt common search term. I don't think ebay are intentionally allowing this to happen, its more CoS abusing their Vero agreement with ebay.
  • Bengy1977, on 02/20/2008, -3/+5the E meter needs to be studied and de-bunked by scientists - anyone got one and access to some clever MIT people?
    • roflbrothel, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8You don't need to be clever to debunk an e-meter.
      • Bengy1977, on 02/20/2008, -0/+0Fair enough - what i was meaning is debunking the claims that the E-meter works as a lie detector, measure 'engrams' brain activity or whatever the hell Scientologists claim. Going thru that point by point would be some nice ammunition for anon... i guess no one would touch it in fear of a lab explosion or Co2 leak that would 'accidentally' happen
    • MasterThief117, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4It is simply a device that measures resistance changes in the body.
      It says so in the patent.
      http://www.cs.cmu.edu/%7Edst/Secrets/E-Meter/hubba ...

      How this indicates "Thetan" levels is beyond me.
      • directive0, on 02/20/2008, -0/+5They claim that the negative projections of thetans increases body mass to the point that it will increase charged resistance in the subject (hereafter referred to as a "preclear"). When the preclear -during auditing- is undergoing one of these projections from a body thetan the e-meter will detect an increase in body resistance. This indicates the memory or thought needs to be "handled", once it is purged the preclear's resistance will return to normal. They (Hubbard) would go so far as to assert that a person who is burdened by depression and unhappiness actually ACCUMULATES mass, physically. This is what Scientologists ACTUALLY believe.
        • MasterThief117, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Hmm. Never knew that. I logged on just to digg you up.
    • springhell, on 02/24/2008, -0/+1Yeah I saw a video once of a guy who took a free emeter test and squeezed the things really hard when he was asked to talk about things that made him happy, and he would barely hold them when he talked about things that made him sad. The scientology dude was awestruck staring at the thing.
  • sevenout7, on 02/20/2008, -2/+6Sure, Scientology does not have access directly to ebay to delete auctions, but with the VeRO program it's virtually the same thing. Ebay does not scrutinize ANY request that a VeRO member would make. Scientologists can send take down notices for things unrelated to their cabal. They could even send take down notices for IP that is NOT EVEN THEIRS. They, for example, could start claming that auctions for Orgone Accumulators violate their "patents" and although both the "thetan meter" and the argone accumulator are works of scientific fiction, eBay would comply with the take down request and remove the "offending" auctions. I would go so far to say that the church of Scientology could even start sending out take down notices for TRON auctions and ebay would pull them, even though the IP is owned by Disney.
  • chicoer2001, on 02/20/2008, -0/+13It's like if Warner Bros takes off your auction of Batman which you bought at Walmart.
  • Subriot, on 02/20/2008, -2/+16***** THE CoS AND THE RIAA, TOO!
    • JusticeFriend, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Don't forget MPAA!
    • KlogereEndGrim, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Dont forget copyright laws that where bought and paid for by those very same assholes...
  • Unit134679, on 02/20/2008, -1/+6Are you ***** serious? What are they gonna donate money to assist with net neutrality as well?
  • stewacide, on 02/20/2008, -0/+15Why would eBay allow them to remove legitimate listings?!?!?
    • iddybiddy, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1The VERO system allows many listings to disappear not just Scientology products, the VERO members abuse the it to remove legitimate second hand products to force buyers to buy new.
  • DDMX, on 02/20/2008, -1/+13The E-Meter:
    On January 4, 1963, more than one hundred E-meters were seized by US marshals at the "Founding Church of Scientology" building in Washington, D.C. The church was accused of making false claims that the devices effectively treated some 70 percent of all physical and mental illness. The FDA also charged that the devices did not bear adequate directions for treating the conditions for which they were recommended.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-meter
  • Dunhamzzz, on 02/20/2008, -1/+16Notice how all the comments are getting dugg down. WTG Co$ scum
  • postal21, on 02/20/2008, -0/+14How can you not sell the e-meters? Im really confused. Its your property, the stupid church cant claim the bibles in my house, why can scientology?

    /mad about the principle of it all.
    • nmnnotmyname, on 02/20/2008, -1/+2The lesson here is not to get an e-meter (a practically useless device) from a stupid church of a fake religion.
  • diggradu, on 02/20/2008, -1/+15According to the 2nd ebay listing it costs $5000 for "calibration!" You have to give it to that crazy ***** Hubbard, he really did know how to screw people over for every last penny. In fact, "Id like to start a religion, thats where the money is!" - Hang on a minute, where've i heard that before!?
    • Suricou, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1The calibration is important - the manual describes the procedure. It involves connecting two 1% tolerance resistors in turn in place of the 'cans' and adjusting the meter to give specific readings for each. The true purpose of this calibration is really to add to the air of sciency-feel by creating the illusion that the meter is a highly precise and specific instrument.
  • saxx, on 02/20/2008, -1/+18March 15 gets closer by the day

    Help make a stand
  • dotpage, on 02/20/2008, -0/+11Given Ebay's record of fraud and abuse, should anybody give them any level of trust?
  • phantom_mullet, on 02/20/2008, -1/+25Google...I can has eBay clone?
    • groovechamp30, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1Please....make it happen, eBay are *****.
  • hotcod, on 02/20/2008, -0/+8i'm still tempted to go get a 'reading' when they are doing the stress test and see if i can't hide a wire that runs from palm to palm... it should mean you get no resistances and so must be free of thetans if i'm not mistaken or that you are xenu him self... can't remember which way around it is.
    • Enlightenment, on 02/20/2008, -0/+1COMPLAIN TO EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • aximbigfan, on 02/20/2008, -0/+4PROTIP:
      Wear a pull-over, link 2 ESD bracelets together. If you thetan levels are comparable to lord Xenu himself, an EPIC WIN! will result.
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