What is Digg?59 Comments
- inactive, on 06/04/2008, -1/+22What a victory. Let's hope the rest of the process to get this refinery up and running goes as smoothly.
- vick3ii, on 06/04/2008, -1/+11That's exactly what I was thinking, however, this is just the first step (arguably the hardest). There is still a lot to be done, but hopefully this will be a new trend...
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -1/+9yes but there is in fact a bottleneck at refineries so this may help the case somewhat. along with that the refinery is being built right near the bakken field.
- Terr01, on 06/04/2008, -1/+9When did the asylum get an internet connection?
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8You fail, we have to import refined gasoline and turn our crops into gas to subsidize our lack of output. On top of that we have states that require 4-5 different grades of unleaded. Wanna cut gas prices short term. Output 1 grade of unleaded and 1 diesel.
By the time they get this thing online though, 10 years from now, will it be to little too late? - TheCash, on 06/05/2008, -2/+9"Pristine farm land"?
Uh, I've been where they want to put that refinery and right now a majority of it is all CRP. What's CRP, you ask? That's when the government pays farmers to *not* grow a crop on their land. More info on that bunch of BS here http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/crp/
South Dakota is one big chunk of "pristine farmland," and at least this way someone would be getting some use out of a portion of it thats been sitting for how many years now. - Terr01, on 06/05/2008, -1/+7Actually, the real explanation is that during his experiments with water they found out he weighed the same as a duck!
- floorman56, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5I live in South Dakota too. we are already getting the world largest wind farm
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-ne ...
Solar? ..are you sure you live in South Dakota? who's going to sweep 2 ft of snow off 3000 acres of solar panels? - cheddarbek, on 06/05/2008, -2/+7Man, I tell you what. I LIVE in South Dakota, and have good friends who live in Vermillion, 15 miles out of Elk Point. They all regard Infineon and this whole refinery as horrible for the local economy.
Sure, the town will boom now, but in 10 years it'll go bust, and so will the economy within 60 miles of this refinery. Not only that, but this refinery is 15 miles out of the largest college in South Dakota. I GUARANTEE that enrollment will drop 25% at least because of this refinery and all the pollution it is going to generate.
We should've done something more productive, such as solar panels, or a wind farm. Just not this. - genconkeeper, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5North Dakota is going thru an oil boom right now with reserves projected at 25 times the size of Alaska to size of Saudi Arabia. Its just taken $60 a barrel oil take it profitable. Plus anything they build now will be cleaner and more efficient, and hurricane proof than what is working today.
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -1/+5so how long before this devolves into an environmental debate
- jiqiren, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4It is still not nearly enough... "In fact, from 1985 to 1995, 10 California refineries closed, resulting in a 20 percent reduction in refining capacity [in California]."
http://www.energy.ca.gov/oil/refineries.html - locojones, on 06/05/2008, -3/+63000 acres for an oil refinery? 10 years to come online? Isn't this a lot like building a flint factory to encourage people to stick with fire as a source of illumination after the incandescent bulb has been invented?
Why doesn't the state put 3000 acres of solar panels up and do something useful with the land because this isn't going to make one iota of difference for gas prices which will probably be 20 dollars a gallon by the time the place is even operative. - mousky, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Or it could be that there was excess capacity at oil refineries and the oil companies decided that maybe, just maybe, that there was no need to invest in new refineries?
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2If their crude oil shipping route is via the great lakes I doubt the sierra club types of the world will allow it to go through without a fight...
We'll be seeing ads of penguins and wood ducks covered in oil, with music set to a minor key all day long... - floorman56, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2On line is 4 years
- smacksaw, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2We couldn't really do just 1 blend of unleaded, mainly because we have so many different climates in this country.
But that's why diesel is the answer YET AGAIN. We should make plain old ULSD and depending on climate and region we should mix in biodiesel from waste oil. It may not ever be more than 5% of the diesel fuel, but it won't rape our crops, it will use leftover waste and it will supplement supply from area to area. - TheCash, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3It doesn't sound right, but it is true. Every refinery currently operating in the US is 30 years old. Why? Ask the EPA. Instead of building newer, cleaner running refineries, the oil industry has been forced to add on to ancient tech.
Doesn't make sense, but hey, thats the government for ya. - inactive, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2exactly what I thought. environmentalism bias, sneaky.
- Terr01, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/thackney/Oi ...
So? Regardless of the issues with jobs and outsourcing, the big thing that's changed in the breakdown of what you pay at the pump is the crude-oil ingredient. - curtisag, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Solar panels and wind farms don't go inside your gas tank. They are inefficient and costly forms of power as well. That's why nobody builds them practically. Every time hurricane season comes around and a hurricane enters the gulf of mexico, the oil price speculators use that as an excuse to bump up the price of oil. It makes no sense but speculative bubbles never do. We need this refinery to boost our domestic output capabilities, we're running at 90% capacity usage.
- pinchduck, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2We have more than one plot of 3000 acres. We can put a solar panels on one, and an oil refiner on the other. If the price of solar panels plumets and their efficiency takes off, then the solar plot of land wins. If we discover how to more efficiently mine shale oil in the United States and exploit the Bakken oil reserves, then Big Oil wins. No harm in hedging our bets.
- smacksaw, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2That's why his college enrollment figures go down 25%. They'll be having new jobs as solar panel snow-sweepers.
LOL - smacksaw, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I live (several places LOL) near the BP Cherry Point refinery. In the past they have had some pollution problems, but overall the air here in Birch Bay, Washington is still cleaner than a California freeway. Living...next to a refinery...but we never have any smell or illness. The fact that it's in a middle of a forest, surrounded by poplar and alder trees helps.
I think that this "fertile, pristine farmland" in South Dakota should be like it is here. Get lots of green, oxygen-producing vegetation around the refinery. - tim620, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2CRP does a couple of things. It helps preserve soil erosion and it also helps keep the price of the crop higher, as there is less of it grown. Thus creating a better economy for the farmer.
Just because a crop is not growing on the land, doesn't mean it isn't good or "pristine" farm land. There were no crops grown on the land for thousands of years prior toWhite settlers showing up, it doesn't mean it wasn't "pristine farm land" back then. - hwy9nightkid, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1If this is true, then when an oil refinery goes down somewhere..prices are not affected because of it..but the exact opposite has been true in the United States. A town in California had the news on the radio of a fire at it's refinery, and locals were complaining that gas prices temporarily shot up.. Gas prices are high because there are not enough refineries...not because the cost of refinement is high
- Terr01, on 06/04/2008, -4/+5I want to defuse a nasty talking-point.
First, yes, new separate refineries have been very very infrequent. Because it makes more financial sense for companies to just expand their existing facilities.
Secondly, the cost of refining *IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR CURRENT HIGH GAS PRICES*.
Read it again if necessary. The high costs today are due to CRUDE oil. That is, the cost of oil *BEFORE* refinement. Refinery costs have been fairly flat over the past few years, with only very small very sharp spikes during things like Hurricane Katrina.
So please don't bother blaming the current high gas prices on refinery regulations. - tim620, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1With the price of gas, electric cars are becoming more popular. So, "Solar panels and wind farms" will go inside your gas tank (or at least your batteries) one day soon.
- nicorobins, on 02/22/2009, -0/+1Owh oil issues again...
http://fiyz.net/ | http://ad-aware.fiyz.net/ | http://mobile-phonereview.com/ - tim620, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2I don't like the idea of cars running on water. Sure, it may work, but what about northern states and Canada, where it can be below freezing for months. The other problem is that fresh water is already turning into a scarcity.
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1lmao right okay
- MrFurious2k, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I love the Dakotas.
- inactive, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Sounds like a great idea with extremely low refining capacity utilizations and no margins!
- awesomebill61, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Have you ever been to this part of south dakota?
Union County is known for having the best, highest valued, highest output farm land in all of south dakota.
Given i live 10 miles away, i think i would know.
Sure, there may be less valuable land in other parts of south dakota, but the southeastern corner has incredibly fertile land. - Terr01, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
A shortage of refineries can't be causing the high price of crude. That makes no sense.
And the high price of crude is what's been ramping up the last several years.
The cents-per-gallon that goes to refineries has been comparatively flat. - Terr01, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1"You fail, we have to import refined gasoline and turn our crops into gas to subsidize our lack of output."
So? Even imported pure gasoline is mainly expensive *because of the cost of it's basic ingredient*. Even if we had a Super Duper Magical Refinery that operated at unlimited capacity at no cost whatsoever, you'd only drop your $4 gas to $3.5 gas.
It's like arguing that Cake is 2x more expensive because... we don't have enough bakers.
And saying that even though (A) bakers and baking companies haven't been changing their rates or wages and (B) sugar and flour are costing 3x more. - esc27, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1It is probably a new win for the Country, but I can't help but feel concern for the smaller farmers and rural people who's lives would be destroyed by something like this. Say for example you are a small town person and live and work on the same hundred acres or so of land your family has owned for generations, and the county votes to take that away from you. Sure you get paid, maybe even a fair price, but your home, life, etc. is taken and/or changed forever. Worse, those who won support for "taking" your land live in a "big" city far out of site and lose nothing themselves.
I'm sure that is a bit idealistic, and only portions of the land fit my description, but still, as I speculate about what national benefits a new refinery might bring, I pity those people. - Terr01, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I don't think any of you guys really read what I wrote. Try a picture.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f190/thackney/Oi ...
Made up numbers to illustrate the idea:
2000: Gas is $2, the crude oil to make it costs $0.75.
2008: Gast is $4, the crude oil to make it costs $2.75
And somehow you think that means it's still a refinery issue? - Rizzob23, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I say drill and pump every last drop, no matter where or how its done. The needs of the economy trump environmental concerns.
- awesomebill61, on 06/05/2008, -0/+0University of South Dakota:
9,250 undergrad students
2,300 grad students
South Dakota State University:
9,200 undergrad students
1,300 grad students
maybe you went to SDSU, given your addition seems a little shaky. - TheCash, on 06/05/2008, -2/+2Hey, we're waiting for the drilling to start up here.
You want ANWR open? Write your congressman/woman and tell them to stop being the collective bitches of a bunch of special interest groups.
We tried to open the place over a decade ago, and the opposition complained that even if they started drilling immediately, it would take 10 years before any of that oil would arrive to market on a consistent basis. So here we are, ten years later, and we could *really* use some of that oil. Hey thanks guys, much love. 'Preciate all your forward thinking on that one. - kieljohn, on 06/05/2008, -0/+0South Dakota has alot of energy projects going on right now. We are trying to build another 3 billion dollar coal power plant in Northeast South Dakota, along with that would be one of the largest Wind Farms, the problem is that Minnesota hippies don't want the power lines to be built that will supply them the power they need to be able to complain online.
We are trying to build a pipeline down from Canada that would supply oil not to just this refinery but also to other refineries in the South. This would compliment the oil refinery that we are trying to build. Perhaps many should look in the mirror before thinking that we are just a bunch of hicks up here, what is your state doing to try and help out.
It is time that we end the "not in my backyard" mentality that we have had for the past 30 some years. - awesomebill61, on 06/05/2008, -0/+0you honestly feel like we will continue using the current internal combustion format?
hyperion is going to begin construction in 2010 at the earliest, which will not happen.
by the time it is online we will be moving away from gasoline anyways.
solar panels, wind farms, hydroelectric, and nuclear energy will too power our cars someday. - lineman60, on 06/05/2008, -3/+3Good, Now all we need to do is drill this http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-ne ... and Alaska.
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