What is Digg?46 Comments
- 11arrows, on 10/12/2007, -2/+46I've had my identity stolen and its no fun. It's about time they held the right people responsible.
- profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18"if their owner didn't look mafia"
I think that's even more reason to be worried... - bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14it's not, but it looks good to the press... :P
- LonesomeFighter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14i was at a restaurant in Lake Placid and those bastards printed every single digit on the receipt and on their copy. i would have made a fuss over it if i wasn't in a hurry and if their owner didn't look mafia.
- BrPyne, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I know there are more than 7 digits on a credit card, that's not my point. There are 16 digits on a standard credit card. If you know 5 of the digits, you have 11 more to find out.... leaving about 100,000,000,000 possible combinations. This as opposed to printing 7 digits, leaving 9 unknown.... leaving 1,000,000,000 possible combinations. Either way the digits printed on the receipt are useless to anyone but the one who owns the card.
- venir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I've been to a lot of places that print the full number on both copies of receipts. It's really not cool to be doing so and hopefully this will get some things to change.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Yup. Throw the thief in jail. Stop the rest of the silliness.
- Caulfield, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@brpyne
Yes and no. Credit cards have a very guessable first four digits (card type, bank routing) and the last digit is a checkdigit which if known can further reduce the number of possible combinations. It really depends on which digits are being printed. If it's the last 7 that is quite a bit less secure than the last 5. Thieves aren't just trying every combination by adding one, they're a bit more sophisticated than that. - listrophy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Even worse, I've gotten an EMAIL-based receipt for a reservation at the restaurant atop the John Hancock building in Chicago with my entire CC number and exp date. I emailed them back, saying they were opening themselves to some serious issues. I'm sure they just deleted my email.
Fortunately, this was ~4 years ago and I never noticed any odd behavior on that CC. - Skurt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5
As someone who creates and troubleshoots POS software, we often receive requests to mask all but the rightmost of credit cards, but you will need it on your copy, or you will not be able to fight a chargeback attempt by the customer. Please see the following:
http://usa.visa.com/merchants/operations/chargebacks_dispute_resolution/preventing_chargebacks.html
Note especially the final sentence in paragraph 3, that even when a slip is signed, if the card number or expiry date is missing, the charge can be charged back to you for "no imprint". (This is good to know when a customer complains that the store's copy of the receipt has the whole number and expiry date). Therefore, even when the POS is not working, getting a card imprinted, and signed is an essential element of avoiding charge backs.
Remember when the POS is down, they imprint your card, it has all the numbers, the expire date and your full name on the card. - PixelVision, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4To expand on what caulfield said, a credit card number is generated by using the luhn formula. This reduces the amount of possible missing numbers by quite alot. Another thing is that the first few digits are ID numbers. For example your Visa card will start with a 4. If the first 4 digits of your card are 2138 or 1800 then you have a JCB, 300 then you have a Diners Club. Card types are also identifiable by the length of the card number. Some Visa cards are 13 digits long (most are 16). Amex have 15 digit cards. There's loads of factors that make the card number easier to find than you'd first think.
- PixelVision, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've worked in the field of high tech crime detection and I wrote some software that "guesses" the remaining digits of a credit card based on the few that you can get. Depending on the variations and quantity of numbers given, it's possible to round the card down to just 1 card number from a possibility of over 10,000 in some cases (usually a discover card). There shouldn't be any numbers on a receipt. A code linked to and identifying the card but not being used for actual spending would be useful. It would identify the card used but not the numbers used for purchases. It's ridiculous that receipts contain any card numbers nowadays but still some places even print the entire string.
- xtmno3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not like that helps too many people:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-5295661.html
Although you can no longer easily search google the card strings easily (too many sites have that set of text as a keyword), credit card numbers in general need some fixing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"I call my card operator every 4 months and tell them I've lost my wallet and to send me new cards ASAP. "
You do realize that ends up putting a security notice on your credit report, don't you? Do it too many times and pretty soon you'll be considered too high of a risk to give a card to. - walkingdogs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I always look for this and scribble out the first 6 digits or so. They don't need it there so be proactive and take care of it yourself. No one has ever said a thing or questioned it.
- philz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I remember when I was in Germany, I bought a train ticket with my Visa last year:
On the receipt was my full cc-number, my name and how long the card will be valid, nice eh?
Stuff like that is just screaming for abuse... - david76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2When we purchased our Christmas tree this year, they wrote down my CC number on a credit slip, then wrote down the 3-digit CVV. I protested and she insisted that's what they were told to do. I probably should have protested more strongly, or paid cash.
- MackenzieArbour, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2MrBabyMan really needs a life
- motters, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1At last. This is a very long overdue measure which will protect people from fraud. I've thought for the last 15 years that credit card receipts were absurdly insecure, making it trivially easy for someone to get all the important details.
- flippinjeremy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3How would someone report a company/store that still violates this law? Who should I call/email, etc?
Any advice? - kitwaites, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@david76
It's still legal when people are taking a written note of your details for charging later, or when they manually take a carbon copy of your card, as they need those when they ring in their transactions. For example, I work at a hotel in the UK and we have notes of everyone's full card details with names, addresses, etc - so that we can charge the bastards when they run away! Internet shopping, here I come!
Here in the UK, though, normally you get a "merchant receipt" with all the details and a "customer receipt" with only the last 4 digits. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"So if you get a receipt that has your number on it. And you are dumb enough to throw it in the trash without running it through a shredder, then it is the stores fault your identity was stolen?"
Most stores print a carbon copy of your receipt, which they keep for a certain period of time and then dump in the trash. One day I was walking past a truck rental place near my home and noticed a surprising number of receipts blowing all over the parking lot in the wind. I traced them to an open box lying on the ground near a dumpster. Peeking into the box, I found it filled to the brim with more receipts. The receipts had customer name, address, full digits and expiration dates, and the expiration dates weren't past on the ones I looked at, so anyone could have taken the information provided and used the accounts. The rental place was closed for the evening so I couldn't bring the receipts back in and demand that they shred them, so I had the local police come take them before they ended up in the hands of someone who might take advantage of the situation. I followed up with them a few days later and they said the manager promised never to let it happen again, and that all receipts would be shredded from now on before disposal. Well, a couple months later the rental place was broken into, and guess what the crooks took? That's right: receipts.
It's all fine and dandy to say that one will shred the receipts and that takes care of the problem, but what about people who get hold of the receipts before they're shredded? That's why not printing any sensitive data on a receipt is a good idea. Also, far more dangerous than people who might find receipts in the trash are corrupt employees who handle these receipts. Few have a good enough memory to recall your full credit card number and expiration date from the short time it's in their hands, but they've often got stacks and stacks of receipts, sometimes with your name and address on them (other times it might stored in a computer if you have a store discount card or other reason to give them your info), so it's easy pickings when full credit card numbers are printed. - flashback99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1nice. now to get some legislation on limiting the number of digits on the price...
- boyinuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1umm?
- kefs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Anyone know what the law is in Canada? or where to start my search?
- raywireless, on 08/27/2008, -0/+0although, some consumers won't agree with u, but i do. maybe because i own a restaurant too, but it would be quicker to use cash for small amount such as lunch. the lunch buffet in my restaurant is 7.25 with tax and more than half of my customers use their CC, which would be faster for the cashier if they use cash.
- lazyeyesam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I hope they bring this legislation to the UK too... it does worry me to see all my details (including expiry dates etc.) written on the receipts.
- BrPyne, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6How is forcing retailers to print 5 credit card digits instead of 7 going to prevent identity theft?
- Ifligus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I work in the payment card industry, and I have to say it's about time the lawsuits started flying. Merchants of Visa and MasterCard are required to comply with PCI (Payment Card Industry) specifications. One of the rules clearly states that you are only allowed to show at most the first six and last four digits of a credit card number.
It might take extra effort to comply with the guidelines, but they are there for a reason. - faskippy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Everytime I see that all of my digits are on the receipt, I scratch them out before signing. The info they need has already been transferred in the computer, and they no longer need it on the receipt. Never had a problem with this.
- goudi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I will never understand why people who are so worried about identity theft use plastic for trivial expenses. I work at a restaurant. Do people realize how aggravating it is for a table of eight to all drop their credit cards on you for eight separate $10 purchases? Get some cash before you go out. They can't steal you identity if you use cash and you are much less of a nuisance.
- crpndeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Just so I'm clear...does that mean the merchant NEEDS to keep your full CC and expiration date on their receipt? (not being in the industry) I always assumed the transaction could be revisited with the authorization number or transaction number if their was a problem...that the merchant having a copy of the CC number was not necessary.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@chuckismyname
Actually, he has it right; MathematicS = MathS.
Just another thing we Americans mangled. - atb12688, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1In europe, they always print all the digits. I guess identity theft isn't nearly the problem it is in North America?
- fight4yourright, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Try Life Lock
http://www.lifelock.com/default.aspx?promocode=Shareasale&SSAID=186740 - Albion01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0People will do anything for that 15 minutes of fame, hey? Who cares who gets screwed along the way, right? *sadly shakes his head*
- sspooner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Good. People need to wake up about this sort of thing.
- SPECOPS, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1@philz - No sure why my comment was placed under yours, I clicked the reply way above.
- SPECOPS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@brpyne - You are seeing it from the wrong end here. Of course there are more than 7 digitis on a CC, however, knowing those 7 digits, and not knowing the first does not equate to 100,000,000,000 remaining possibilities.
The reason is, the first 6 digits out of the total of 16 digits (most common) are the same per bank (or unique branch, etc.) called Issue Identifier, leaving us with (16 minus 6, minus 7 = 3). One of the 3 remaining is a check-sum digit. So, as you can see, you can "think-of" a credit card as only being 7 digits in length, due to that is the account number, if you know a list of Issue Identifier numbers, you're chances of guessing the reminging digits are very high. What I do, when I sign, I use the pen to censor any remaining digits on each copy, especially the one I sign, and give back to them. Simple enough and has worked for me. - loafer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Since the last digit is a checksum and the first 6 basically a "bank code" (called an iban) working out the missing digits that should work isn't very hard if you have the first couple and then more than 4 others! I'd say most school leavers with google and a good maths grade should be able to cook up something useful pretty quickly.
Card number are so broken IMHO. I call my card operator every 4 months and tell them I've lost my wallet and to send me new cards ASAP. - bikini, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4there are more than seven digits on a credit card.
- griz, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1So if you get a receipt that has your number on it. And you are dumb enough to throw it in the trash without running it through a shredder, then it is the stores fault your identity was stolen? Another case of flushing personal responsibility down the drain.
- chuckismyname, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2@loafer. I hope no one listens to you...with all the bad spellings (good maths??) and new card every 4 months B.S. no recepit should have the whole credit card number on it ever PERIOD. they shouldn't even show the first few #'s, only the last 4.
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