What is Digg?246 Comments
- BlitzTips, on 10/15/2008, -5/+99This is a great commenatary.
- algaeturd, on 10/15/2008, -6/+93Dugg, dugg and DUGG. Schiff gets this stuff and the people who listen to him are the ones that are going to make it out of this in as best condition as one can. I'm one of the people getting punished for putting money down and staying on top of my payment. Nobody gets ***** like the middle class. Why? Because politicians and special interests are at the top of the tower shooting everyone who gets ahead in the face. NO MIDDLE CLASS! Uber rich and Uber poor. That is the the new era American way. Strip everyone who as a little wealth completely free of it and send it to the people who wipe their asses with hundred dollar bills.
- waluum, on 10/16/2008, -10/+95Anyone still thing it was a bad idea to vote for Ron Paul in the primaries?
If he was the pick over McCain he would steer us in a direction that would turn the upcoming depression into a serious, but short, recession. Instead, you want to vote for McCain or Obama who are for printing money out of thin air as a band-aid to an serious wound, which will only increase inflation, unemployment, and the onset of the all but inevitable depression? Is America eating paint chips??? - ousthouse, on 10/16/2008, -5/+67Hey, does anyone remember 2006 when the democrats promised that if we elected them to congress that they'd stop the war and then fix the economy? That was pretty funny.
- Heywoodj, on 10/15/2008, -1/+54As a battered and bloody home owner (mortgage paid off last year) the irony of this is killing me.
Dugg and shouted. - inactive, on 10/16/2008, -2/+50While we're at it we should stop paying taxes, too.
- TsuruchiBrian, on 10/16/2008, -5/+43If you owe more money than your house is worth, then you should just file for bankruptcy and let them foreclose your home. I am not even being sarcastic. Shouldn't you be punished for taking a bad risk? Probably, but similarly the banks that loaned you the money and the companies and the their shareholders that bought those loans should also be punished for taking risks (the risk of trusting you would/could pay them back).
What should NOT happen is this $700 billion bailout, or any of the other bailouts that have happened or will happen. The tax payer did not take any risks it deserves to be punished for.
Oh wait we did.
We allowed corrupt and incompetent people run our government. We took the biggest risk of all because it was nearly guarunteed to fail. We trusted Republicans and Democrats to do what was best for us and to do a good job no less. But instead they decided it would be better to make sure their friends and contributors are insulated from their losses by passing the losses on to us. Privatized profits and socialized losses. How dumb are we?!
Now we are being punished for our gamble. We gambled that everything was ok and these crooks in Washington were not that bad, and that their corruption and incompetence would not really affect the rest of us.
All I can say is let's try not make the same mistake again. Vote all these ***** out please, especially if they voted for the bail out. - darkened, on 10/16/2008, -1/+37Ron Paul stood up against the bail out... BOTH TIMES!
- odigity, on 10/16/2008, -5/+35BTW-From Zeitgeist Addendum (who's conclusions I don't agree with, but the information in the first hour is mostly accurate):
"In 1969 there was a Minnesota court case involving a man named Jerome Daly, who was challenging the foreclosure of his home by the bank, which provided the loan to purchase it. His argument was that the mortgage contract required both parties, being he and the bank, each put up a legitimate form of property for the exchange. In legal language this is called consideration (a contracts basis. a contract is founded on an exchange of one form of consideration for another.)
Mr Daly explained that the money was in fact not the property of the bank, for it was created out of nothing as soon as the loan agreement was signed. Remember what Modern Money Mechanics stated about loans? What they do, when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits. Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions, but deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system. In other words: The money doesn’t come out of their existing assets, the bank is simply inventing it, putting up nothing of it’s own, except for a theoretical liability on paper.
As the court case progressed, the bank’s president Mr. Morgan took the stand. And in the judge’s personal memorandum he recalled that “the Plaintiff (banks president) admitted that in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank did create the money and credits upon its books by bookkeeping entry. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr Morgan admitted that no US Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note. The Jury found that there was no lawful consideration and I agree.” He also poetically added: “Only God can create something of value out of nothing.”
And upon this revelation the court rejected the bank’s claim for foreclosure and Daly kept his home." - brad3378, on 10/15/2008, -2/+30There's nothing that pisses me off more than people who just carelessly away from a home while the rest of us pick up their slack with higher property taxes, insurance, lower property values etc.
What's the incentive to be a responsible citizen anymore? - kolobcreek, on 10/16/2008, -9/+36***** FREE LOADERS
- ScottMitchell, on 10/16/2008, -2/+23Say it was the lender's fault... no, wait, say it was the home owner's fault... heck, perhaps it was both their faults. In any case, why the hell do I have to pay for this mess?
What we need is for house prices to return to AFFORDABLE LEVELS. We do not need to have a "floor" in housing prices, like McCain said in tonight's debate, because right now that floor would still be above historical norms. High house values HURTS neighborhoods and families (except for Realtors and mortgage brokers and tax collectors). - Shiner76, on 10/15/2008, -4/+24The key issue (imo) is who do you believe is at fault - and how do you draw the line? Were home buyers irresponsible or were lenders too lenient and/or aggressive in their practices? Hard to distinguish when you only look at it from the highest levels
- LilPuke, on 10/15/2008, -2/+22Shiner76, you should add real estate agents to that list. Most first time buyers don't really understand borrowing and are usually referred to a lender by their agent for pre-approval. A lot of the time those buyers don't read the disclosure statements. They only understand closing costs and payments (at least the payment amount until the first rate change). Now that the agent knows what they can afford, they find a slightly more expensive house and talk the seller down to the amount that the buyer can afford (again, until the interest rate changes).
That said, I'm fortunate to have had a) an ethical real estate buyer's agent and b) independently sought out the lender for my first mortgage. - wdr1, on 10/16/2008, -1/+20"bitter for having overpaid for your home during the bubble"
bitter? wtf. housing prices are based on demand & what people are willing pay. it's not like a car with a price set by ***** honda. these jackasses overpaid because these are the very same jackass that drove prices through the roof & made housing unaffordable for the rest of us, those who WANT to buy a home but thought it was ***** nuts to take out a negative amortization loan.
so i'm sorry if you're "bitter" in ***** up things for everyone, you also ***** things up for yourself. cry me a ***** river, *****. - Br3ach, on 10/16/2008, -0/+18Doesnt seem to be much anymore.
I pay my taxes, my Government invades foreign lands and bails out Wall Street ***** who went on vacation. I dont even have a mortgage but I will be paying for the irresponsibility of others one way or the other with rising inflation etc caused by the bailouts.
I ask, what do I get? They strip $400 out of my check every couple weeks, what do I get for my $800 a month aside from poorer? Seems like I should at least have health care. But no, I pay a little extra for the better deal from my work.
The only work my taxes seem to be doing for me is screwing me over. - ScottMitchell, on 10/16/2008, -3/+21I agree that only a douchebag would back out of an agreement they made, it does not help that our government is planning on giving financial rewards to people who do just that!
- mattyx, on 10/16/2008, -1/+19Which doesn't matter much when the credit markets collapse...
- commenter01, on 10/16/2008, -1/+19yes. i hope people understand this before they act on this advice.
- odigity, on 10/16/2008, -0/+17For those of you who are confused about the above passage...
If you think the bank lends you real money, or are confused about how your loans are actually created out of thin air, I recommend a documentary called Money Masters. Like with Zeitgeist, I disagree with it's conclusions. :) (That happens a lot.) But the first three hours is the most solid history of money and banking I've seen in any documentary.
The MoneyMasters Part 1 of 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-158315456 ...
The MoneyMasters Part 2 of 2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-733684576 ...
Or if you want something shorter (~40m), there's this:
Money As Debt
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-905047436 ... - DatVillain83, on 10/15/2008, -2/+19I'm no homeowner but these facts are too acute to refute or debate. In fact, I thought this article was quite humorous. I've listened to Peter speak, but now I'm looking forward to reading more of what he's written,.
- inactive, on 10/16/2008, -0/+15The catch is that if you made a reasonable downpayment, paid down your principle and didn't cash out equity, you are a very attractive target for foreclosure. It's the people who are completely underwater that will get bailed out.
- AmusedToDeath, on 10/16/2008, -0/+15The answer to that question is BOTH. Banks were just doing what they always do - trying to get you on the hook for the maximum amount of money possible while still insuring the loan could be repaid. Problem is when they discovered they could just immediately sell the bad ones to somebody else, they got greedy and just forgot about the second part. Way too many buyers quit worrying about things like "what if I lost my job next year" or "should I really go to the ceiling of my borrowing capability" before signing for that $350,000 jumbo loan, probably the biggest purchase they will ever make.
It's a ***** of human stupidity. - inactive, on 10/16/2008, -2/+17i'm not gonna stop listening to Peter Schiff
he's usually right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU6PamCQ6zw - withincontext, on 10/16/2008, -4/+18I can't even get the Los Angeles Tax Assessor to reassess my property to reflect these decreased values everyone is talking about. If only I could get a real estate agent, financial analyst, tax assessor, and loan specialist to agree on how hard I should get *****. But I digress...
I won't walk away because I'm upside down in my condo. I live in a high-demand area of LA, so I'll just hold onto the property and rent it out if I need to move. A neighboring condo leases for more than my monthly mortgage payment. And, while the property tax is a bit painful, the tax benefits are great.
Bottom line: only a douchebag that stops paying for things with naught but righteous entitlement, especially when it is within said douchebag's means. - bongfarmer, on 10/16/2008, -7/+21What incredible debates Paul vs Obama would of been. Watching them would of been like getting a minor in economics. Gotten to see bailout vs no bailout by two extremely intelligent people
Instead we got to see Obama vs Mr hatchet the budget, but still fund everything(ps Sarah Palin has a special needs baby so don't worry parents, thats better than funding science, special needs programs, or education!) - macslut, on 10/16/2008, -0/+13"I'm one of the people getting punished for putting money down and staying on top of my payment."
I don't understand how you're getting punished. Please don't just Digg me down without explanation. I really don't understand this thinking. You agreed to buy a house at a certain price. You agreed to the loan. You get the house. You make the payments. You get to stay in the house. The payments continue. The staying in the house continues. Eventually you own the house entirely.
Where is the punishment? (Again, I'm being sincere and not sarcastic)
Are you suggesting that you're being punished as a tax payer forced to bail out those who bought over priced homes and couldn't make payments? In that case, get in line behind people like me who lost their job, *sold* their house before having it foreclosed, and are just now coming out of debt only to find that their taxes are going to bail out others. - kfconme, on 10/16/2008, -2/+15who's at fault?
lenders, sure. home owners, yeah. even congress - coupled with the Clinton administration on passing a little law called the Community Reinvestment Act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestmen ...
bottom line, it comes to everyone's greed - the basis of our economy. - Calabahn, on 10/16/2008, -1/+13At first blush I was going to bury this. But as one of the suckers not enticed to cash out built up equity I realized that I'm doing it wrong. How could I be so blind? I double up my mortgage payments (Since I can only get a paltry 2% savings rate, hell I'm getting 6% by paying extra on the mortgage), wrong wrong wrong. I've seen the light. Home equity loan here I come. Max out the credit cards, I'm so there. Because they can't throw me out now that all mortgages are government owned now. Like he says, your not helping out unless your a good American and spend everything and than some that you earn.
So who's sarcastic now? - shibainu, on 10/16/2008, -1/+13thats gonna kill your credit score
- dracostimpy, on 10/16/2008, -1/+13Nope... he's dead serious. The government just created a massive incentive to default on your mortgage if you're already struggling, so why not take it?
- dupswapdrop, on 10/16/2008, -0/+12Just call your bank and tell them that the government will be cutting them a check to pay off your mortgage, then call your politicians and give them your loan number and tell them to send a check to the bank. There all done and your bailed out just like the big boys.
- S5S5S5, on 10/15/2008, -2/+14Jesus, you forgot a bunch of sarcasm tags, Peter. I agree with the last 2 paragraphs though.
- painted82, on 10/16/2008, -0/+11You guys are getting punished because you will be paying, not only for your own houses, but irresponsible home buyers the government decided to bail out with your tax money. How do you guys not understand this? Government is basically taking your money and giving it to others by force. If anybody else did it, it would be robbery and that person would go to prison for it.
- trogdor282, on 10/16/2008, -1/+12Both the lenders and the borrowers are at fault. Rather than being bailed out they should all be rounded up and deported. Erase all their accounts and forget they existed.
I guess I can dream... - DutchGuilder, on 10/16/2008, -1/+12Yup, they were going to fix everything right after they impeached Bush and pulled the troops from Iraq. Oh those wacky politicians and the crazy things they say during an election!
- King0007, on 10/16/2008, -0/+10I am ready to walk away from my mortgage right now if need be...........I have a good rate, and have a 810 credit score.....I also have $200,000 in credit cards (Zero Balance) that I can take cash advances on.........If ***** hits the fan.....man I am out of here....See ya....
How about re-adjusting my mortgage McCain????????? So if I don't pay and get in trouble (which I can make happen)......you (McCain) will keep me in my home.........Count me in 100%. I am ready for some of this $850,000,000,000 bailout money...bring it!!! - inactive, on 10/16/2008, -0/+10What he is saying is - many americans will actually go and do this, being entitlement crazy, as they see big financial institutions being bailed out, being entitlement crazy. And he says everyone is going to pay, being taxed to death. BUT that wont happen because voters will always crowbar a candidate into the white house who will dance naked onstage spreading his legs and dangling his genitals promising LOWER TAXES.
This is what they call a bind. A Dilemma. A Vicious Circle. It will end something like you may have read in this novel:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
Read it, - atdakore, on 10/16/2008, -1/+11Question is; Do you have the guts to stop paying your mortgage?
If you do, then go for it.
Just maybe make sure you have plenty of cash under your mattress. - jonhoffm, on 10/16/2008, -0/+10Well, while we're blaming people, why not add real estate appraisers to the list - if they hadn't appraised homes as high, the irresponsible buyer could not have borrowed money from the irresponsible lender.
When someone is signing an obligation for several hundred thousand dollars it is their responsibility to read and understand what they are signing. There were (and are) numerous not-for-profit organizations available to potential homeowners offering assistance and sound financial advice.
Unfortunately, as Schiff points out, we're in the process of teaching a generation of Americans that it is OK to make bad decisions - the people who make good decisions will pay for it. - jjmckay, on 10/16/2008, -0/+10So the article makes clear our needed steps: 1. Stop paying mortgage 2. Spend our reserve cash soon. 3. Stop working so we don't have to pay income taxes (the bill). *4. Obtain public assistance such as food stamps, etc.
This is a fantastic recipe and is what the Feds are indeed encouraging! :) We can all sit around on the government's borrowed dollars! Freedom baby yeah! Yes, I see that the story is, by way of saying it aloud, showing how ridiculous is the whole artificially (legislatively) created situation.
So what happens after we keep doing this type of bailout? I'll make some guesses. *
* You must be 'approved' by the authorities before you can obtain a mortgage, for one.
* Sooner or later, missing mortgage payments means the federal government can/will take action against you beyond what the banks can do (prison). For example, a politician will be elected to "crack down on those deadbeats!" to stimulate the economy.
* A war on deadbeat mortgage holders will eventually ensue. Labor camps might be a result. We had them in the 1930-40s. - inactive, on 10/16/2008, -0/+9You know you pay property taxes on the assessed value of your home right? The only time you should care about price is when you're going to sell, otherwise taxes and insurance are cheaper when your home's valuation decreases.
- withincontext, on 10/16/2008, -1/+10Trying to set an example for my 3 year old daughter has helped me these past years. So, have faith that this is one dude that won't walk away from his mortgage. Responsibility is actually quite easy once you make it a habit.
- vuke69, on 10/16/2008, -0/+9@Rustymetal
Maybe he can fix your reading comprehension. - jjmckay, on 10/16/2008, -0/+9Yes. This is why socialism doesn't work, especially when its enacted in a panic mode like is being done now.
- inactive, on 10/16/2008, -0/+9I can understand not reading the EULA for a $40 software package, but not reading the terms of a $500K mortgage? I'm sorry, you ***** deserve to get shafted.
- akhomestead, on 10/16/2008, -0/+9The republicans said the same thing (about the economy) when they got both the senate and HR a few years earlier.
They both are ***** liars. - TheMachine1, on 10/16/2008, -1/+9I watched Peter Schiff on various videos he knows that a lot of these mortgages are not really people who bought their homes high and who refuse to pay the bubble price(or can't) but are often real estate speculators who own many homes.
There is absolutely no getting around the fact that a bubble (fake artificial high price happen). Some people are going to be big losers and some are going to be big winners. Winners include all those that sold at the bubble price. The biggest losers would have been the banks that repo those homes but they held the world economy hostage to get government refinancing. Which means depending on how much those houses really appreciate over the next few years verses the relative low interest rates the US government can barrow at will determine how much the tax payers ultimate lose to subsidize the housing bubble burst (that happen in just a few regions).
- jvittetoe, on 10/16/2008, -0/+8I agree on Zeitgeist Addendum. Their solution, to the addressed social and economical problems, are from a Karl Marx wet dream.
- patpl22391, on 10/16/2008, -8/+16This is awful advice. People are under the assumption that the mortgage companies are not willing to work with them. While that was true during the beginning of this crisis, it is certainly not true now. You can work with the mortgage company to get a lower payment while not being evicted and having a foreclosure ruin your credit for years and years.
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