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133 Comments
- ChronicColonic, on 02/10/2009, -2/+56Its like the government is an aircraft carrier that is mostly underwater with a crew of people (Congress) using metal saws making the hole bigger and the taxpayers have been given the duty of bailing the water out with Taco Bell sporks.
- vexingmodstwo, on 02/10/2009, -14/+60You didn't need to be a fortune teller to predict this reaction.
Last night, when the bozo was talking about the "merits" of his economic stimulus plan I told my wife, "I bet you the market takes a dump tomorrow"...
If you weren't an Obamabot and actually listened to what the bozo was saying instead of how he said it, you would have realized that they have no clue on how to fix this mess that THEY created. "THEY" being government. How on earth can someone stand in front of the country and blame the government for the mess (which Obama did repeatedly) and then expect the public to think that the government can fix it?
On top of that, he lied over and over again. Blaming the previous administration for a problem that has its roots in the 70s. EVERYONE knows this (some won't admit it). So when he's up there blaming Bush, people who have a clue (i.e. the stock market) can very easily see that the guy simply doesn't have a clue. - zacharytelschow, on 02/10/2009, -5/+43$3 trillion in bailouts in under 6 months looks like a very strong possibility. Thank God Obama promised he will pay for any new spending by shrinking or removing existing programs as well as increasing government efficiency. Where are all you lemmings who were defending him with that line now?
Somehow, "I told you so" seems so woefully inadequate... - pacerx, on 02/10/2009, -3/+38"Markets Skid on Rescue Details"
FTA:
"...Mr. Geithner, in a late morning speech, outlined a plan to stabilize financial markets but didn't provide the sort of specific details that many investors hoped they would hear."
""There was absolutely no detail," Raymond James analyst Anthony Polini said" - PuterPrsn, on 02/10/2009, -5/+36Now we know what the REAL economists think about this plan.
- mnocket, on 02/10/2009, -7/+33What plan???? At best he presented a plan for a plan. After all the buildup, how could he present so few specifics? They may not have started the financial crisis, but the Obama administration hasn't shown that they have much of a clue as to what to do - except limit CEO pay and promise websites. Obama is sure off to a bad start.
- lanesharon, on 02/10/2009, -6/+27HMMM, Whatever happened to that guarantee of 'transparency'. I say, If I am paying the bill, I have a right to know the itemized charges.
- inactive, on 02/11/2009, -5/+24Atlas has shrugged.
- PhoenixTx, on 02/10/2009, -1/+19And politicians.
- GlobalRoamer, on 02/10/2009, -5/+23After my first review of the Stimulus Bill I found a few questionable expenditures. I am not evaluating the need for some of the programs, like Head Start. I am just questioning the amount of money spent. Be sure to look at the last line first.
Department of Agriculture – upgrade of laboratories and workplace safety $300,000,000
Bio-Refinery $200,000,000
Telemedicine in Rural Areas $200,000,000
National School Lunches $198,000,000
Bureau of the Census $1,000,000,000
Digital-to-Analog Converter TV Boxes $650,000,000
National Institute of Standards – Construction of Research facilities $357,000,000
Violence Against Women $300,000,000
Manufacturing of Advanced Batteries $2,000,000,000
Convert GSA Facilities to High-Performance Green Buildings $6,000,000,000
Motor Vehicle Fleet Procurement $600,000,000
Diesel Emission Reduction $300,000,000
Remediation of Abandoned Mine Sites $650,000,000
Incentive to use biomass from national forest lands $50,000,000
States for Youth Activities $1,200,000,000
Leasing and renovating a headquarters building for Public Health Service Agencies $88,000,000
Comparative Clinical Effectiveness Research $400,000,000
Head Start $1,000,000,000
CDC Immunization Program $750,000,000
Prepare for and Respond to Influenza Pandemic $870,000,000
School Improvement Grants $2,000,000,000
Special Education $13,500,000,000
Rehabilitation Services and Disability Research $610,000,000
Domestic Volunteer Service $160,000,000
Civilian Community Corps $10,000,000
National Cemetery Administration – including memorial and monument repairs $64,961,000
High Speed Rail Projects $2,000,000,000
Public Housing $5,000,000,000
Homeless Prevention $1,500,000,000
Assisted Housing Green Retrofit Investments $1,368,000,000
Regional Health Information Exchange $300,000,000
Department of Education State Fiscal Stabilization $79,000,000,000
Renewable Energy Bonds $1,600,000,000
Recovery Zone Facility Bonds $15,000,000,000
Salary for Comissioner of Social Security $90,000,000
Railroad Retirement Board $1,000,000
Assistance for Vulnerable Individuals $3,000,000,000
Secretary of Health and Human Services Center for Medicare and Medicaid administration $100,000,000
INCREASE IN PUBLIC DEBT LIMIT --> $12,140,000,000,000 - inactive, on 02/10/2009, -6/+24Ch ch ch ch changes!!!
- inactive, on 02/11/2009, -4/+22Well Roamer you got it right. This bill has nothing to do with stimulus and everything to do with spending. In the short run it might have a small effect but by that time the economy will rebound. When that happens government spending is going to result in rapid inflation and high interest rates also known as stagflation. This plan put forward by the President and his cohorts has been tried before. It won't work. Its a socialist bill, spend now, pay later. Obama can talk all he wants about "inheriting" the problems, but this is his problem now. The first bailout and stimulus did not work on GW's watch. But, liberals never learn.
- zacharytelschow, on 02/10/2009, -2/+18You obviously haven't paid close attention to Obama's campaign (or even executive orders). Evidently "we'll figure it out later" counts as a plan (see: Gitmo executive order).
- Nickolassc, on 02/11/2009, -2/+18This is exactly what happened the last time they passed the bailout! See the related by keyword stories.
The government has and is engineering this collapse and I have no choice but to believe it is intentional.
All we need to do is study history to figure out the correct course of action, and the wrong one. For example, in 1920 unemployment was higher than during the great depression. However, the government did nothing and the economy came back on its own. In the 1930's the entire world recovered from the depression before the United States, what caused the U.S. to prolong it's depression? It was the new deal.
In the 1990's Japan started to bailout it's businesses in the same way we are. Their economy hasn't recovered and it's been 17 years since their multiple bailout program began. - zacharytelschow, on 02/10/2009, -7/+22Nothing holds corporations accountable nearly as well as free market principles. I think its Obama's brand of "accountability" (vindictive meddling) that has corporations and the market in general nervous.
- ChronicColonic, on 02/10/2009, -1/+16"Neener neener neener" doesn't help either.
- inactive, on 02/10/2009, -7/+20Wall street just shoved this bill up dumbo's and the cRATS assess with a candle on it. There are no details because there is no plan other than spending. Obama and the cRATS are clueless as to what to do. They have bought the Keneysian economics, hook, line and sinker.
- southwestnut, on 02/11/2009, -1/+13"Homeless Prevention $1,500,000,000"
its called get a job :>) - ChronicColonic, on 02/10/2009, -3/+14This whole crisis pretty much started when the government forced banks to make risky loans aka Fannie and Freddie.
Once people started to default on those risky loans, that is when this whole thing started to snowball.
If a company wants to pay their top executives big dollars, that is their prerogative. If their profit margin is large enough to pay top executives big bucks, I don't have a problem with that. There is no law against that nor should laws should be put into place for that. If it upsets the people who invest money in a company that their executives are getting paid too much, they can take their investment elsewhere. Government should not interfere with that. Hell, government should be happy. The more money an executive makes, the more they get in taxes.
Now if said company is getting bail out money, when then I would have to agree that executives should have their pay cut until the bailout money is paid back. More incentive to pay the bailout money back. - southwestnut, on 02/11/2009, -1/+10I am afraid that the "economist" he always referred to were on his payroll
- vexingmodstwo, on 02/11/2009, -5/+13Look up the Community Reinvestment Act, stupid.
That's when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac really began screwing up the mortgage business. - inactive, on 02/10/2009, -3/+10I'm an ex tugboater of 20 years,
This vessel, Obama's Piracy of America is "Not Under Command"!
By day the hoist signal is "two black balls"!
Drips with irony, don't it?
http://cgate.co.il/eng/rules/yom%5Cnuc.gif - PopcornDave, on 02/11/2009, -1/+7@Chronic
"This whole crisis pretty much started when the government forced banks to make risky loans aka Fannie and Freddie."
You're absolutely right, but look at what it was probably designed to achieve. If you help people who can't afford a home get in to a home, then they're going to (hopefully) look favorably to you in election cycles because you helped them out. Now when those same people who couldn't have qualified for a refrigerator box on a city street are in danger of losing a home they couldn't afford to begin with you step in and save their home so that they'll repay you (hopefully) in election cycles.
I'd really like to believe that's supremely cynical thinking, but nobody in Washington does anybody for anything anymore without some return on the other end. - zacharytelschow, on 02/10/2009, -4/+10More like any business person with any gray matter between their ears knows the government's presence in their business will increase and be even more destructive.
- gcnaddict, on 02/11/2009, -8/+14Holy *****, this thread is filled with people who didn't listen to either press conference.
Geitner said that ALL of the details regarding where the money will go will be available online.
The plan itself aims to create jobs. While they're at it, the plan is to create jobs where said jobs can improve other aspects of life as well. With this in mind, the goal of the plan is to stimulate the economy by getting people stable jobs, thus encouraging them to feel financially secure, thus encouraging them to spend money, thus getting business to do more business, thus getting banks to loan to businesses which are now doing better, thus unfreezing the credit market.
It's utterly simple logic, and it's far better than just giving money to banks and saying "hey, now that you have money, lend it!" because that doesn't do jack ***** to kill fear.
Killing fear involves killing the source of the fear, and the source of the fear right now is low confidence. Boost that, and everything will thaw. That's what this plan aims to do.
Hyperinflation won't happen because the money will eventually make it back to the government through higher taxes and rates (once the economy stabilizes).
The reason Wall Street crashed as badly as it did was because they didn't hear what they wanted to hear, which was "which companies will get money?" Duh, none of that was going to be said today because that's not even part of the plan. The plan is to get money into the economy through jobs, not through handouts. Handouts failed, but Wall Street only wants handouts because Wall Street operates only on fear and greed.
Speaking of fear and greed, this is why a free market economy will *always* be problematic: when uncontrolled, fear and greed cycles will make economic conditions in any single country so unstable that a single typical recession could destabilize that nation. In an interdependent economy, one such collapse can kill entire countries and lead to world famine. Humans are inherently fearful in tough times and inherently greedy when the opportunity presents itself. This is the flaw with the human mind, and this is why the route discussed yesterday and today is far better than what Wall Street is looking for (read: handouts). - Nickolassc, on 02/11/2009, -0/+6Who is John Galt? :D
Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself there. - R0am3r, on 02/11/2009, -1/+7But wait - we now have Mr. Turbo Tax leading us into the promised land. Feel better now?
We are so screwed... - goes211, on 02/11/2009, -0/+6Or at least a Galt's Gulch to hide in!
- LogicalWisdom, on 02/11/2009, -0/+5The market and our economy is in large part based on psychology, because they didn't hear anything that boosts their confidence that a plan is in place which will put an end to the uncertainty they pulled their money back out. The layoffs, the consumer pull-back of spending won't stop until people believe things will get better. Once they believe it, the recovery will become a self fulfilling prophecy. People seeing that layoffs have stopped and the stock market starts to go up will begin to spend more, which will in turn cause more companies to hire, which will bring more consumers back into the market etc...
Whether or not there can be a plan that boosts confidence is another topic though. - Ebacherville, on 02/11/2009, -4/+9"The government has and is engineering this collapse and I have no choice but to believe it is intentional." if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck..
All this "stimulus" will do nothing but cause hyperinflation.. even if they handed every american a check from that trillion dollars it won't pay the average mortgage for more than 2 months.. look at the last Bush stimulus package .. it did next to nothing.. except inflation still marched on faster and faster ..
well of course, they just dumped a bunch of money into the pot watering down your dollars.. Just like making coffee, use the same amount of grounds but put in 2 pots of water.. you just water down the coffee, making it half as effecting at keeping you awake. - Ymeg, on 02/11/2009, -1/+6We need a John Galt.
- Ymeg, on 02/11/2009, -1/+5This is what causes monopolies. Head Start $1,000,000,000? I can only imagine how much other individual companies get.
- PopcornDave, on 02/11/2009, -0/+4The only problem is that if he fails, we fail worse.
- Ebacherville, on 02/11/2009, -1/+5I warned people for a long time and now they are just starting to say, you did say this would happen, and now there up a creek with no paddle..
After a certain point (the elections) I gave up on warning people, and focused on my own families survival in hard times , I'm about a year ahead of most people.. including many of naysayers that are now unemployed or struggling to keep there home.
This isn't over and we have not seen the worst of this yet.. were just at the beginning of this wild ride. IF your OK now , tighten the belt now really really tight and get prepaired and you just might make it through this thing.. - blackpen2008, on 02/11/2009, -1/+5Salary for Comissioner of Social Security $90,000,000
...
nice. i wanna be the commissioner. - falstaff, on 02/11/2009, -1/+5Only some 20% of the bill is the kind of public works projects that Obama is counting on to save the economy, and only 10% of that (2% total) is coming in the next year.
A trillion dollars in additional deficit spending, and only 2% will be the emergency help that he's promising. - mAineAc, on 02/11/2009, -1/+5The problem is they do not have the money to do it. They are spending enough money to make everyone in the USA a millionaire. When everyone has a million dollars how much do you think a million dollars is going to be worth? Do you think that printing money is going to fix a broken system? We have a fiat money system. The more that they print the less the money you own is worth. Scarcity is what gives things value, even money. Everything they are doing is destroying our economy not fixing it. We are going to be in huge trouble in the next couple of years. People should start getting rid of their debt at this time not accruing more like they are trying to push. When things are paid off and people actually own what they have then the system will start to fix itself. Not until then.
- Barackalypse, on 02/11/2009, -0/+4Opps, looks like I'm not the only one who considers this a bad idea. Of course, as with the last $700 billion plan, the Government doesn't care about the will of the people and will do whatever it wants to. I wish the Constitution had a mechanism for giving the citizens a more fail safe way of stopping the Government from doing things they didn't want done, a citizens veto if you will.
- gcnaddict, on 02/11/2009, -2/+6Geitner said all changes will be listed online.
- Silverbird, on 02/11/2009, -1/+4Is the the same Digg I've been reading for the past six months? The silence from the Obama fanboys is deafening. Where is the Huffington post spin? Where are the blamers who chalk this up to 8 years of failed Republican policy? I guess the 62% that approve of Mr. Obama's performance don't trade on Wall Street.
- Maynza, on 02/11/2009, -7/+10I know I am gonna get buried into oblivion for this, but a) the DOW is a ***** metric to measure the economy by, it only measures 50 companies, and b) the DOW was already down 300 points before he even spoke, so the headline is *****.
- R0am3r, on 02/11/2009, -7/+10I love how Obama says he inherited this mess. Wait a second - WTF was he doing as a US Senator for the last few years? Yes, he is a party to the crime.
Off topic - why does the main stream media praise Obama for this speaking skills. How many times do I have to hear him mumble the sound "Ahhhhh" when he is searching for cognotive thought? The man is poor public speaker without his teleprompter. - PopcornDave, on 02/11/2009, -1/+4But he can claim anything he wants, because "he won".
As far as paying all this off, they don't give two *****. It will become someone else's problem long after they're a) out of office or b) dead and gone.
This crisis isn't going away until people realize that they can't spend money they don't have and that means the American public and Congress. - trejrco, on 02/11/2009, -1/+4The game has started, and is in fact in full swing.
"I won" is not what is being said, it was "I told you so" - and that is perfectly appropriate at this time. Repeat after me - "The government cannot spend it's way out of this mess" ... only through "painful" months|years of _sound_ fiscal discipline will this boat get righted.
Oh, and like the other side hasn't done similar - "selected not elected" much? Strawman regardless - Politics is politics, we are (or should be) talking economics right now. - athinnes, on 10/01/2009, -2/+5You do realize nothing has actually happened because of anything Obama has done? Anything that has happened because of this plan is speculation.
His plan hasn't even gone through Congress. Nothing like saying "I won" before the game even started. The fact you are saying "I won" at all shows the country's interests are not your priority.
Republicans did the same ***** in 93 when the "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush" bumper stickers came out. Didn't really hear any of that when the country went through the rest of the 90s. - PopcornDave, on 02/11/2009, -0/+3$600M for vehicle procurement from companies you're bailing out with a loan? Why don't they pay that loan back with vehicles?
- inactive, on 02/11/2009, -0/+3As much of a foreign policy whackjob Ron Paul is, his approach to this would have been to do absolutely nothing. And I 100% agree with that.
- slickmick, on 02/11/2009, -0/+3There was never any substance to the Obama campaign. People voted for him because they're stupid, he had a (D) after his name, and they thought it'd be cool to have a black president.
Now that reality is here -- Obama is a lightweight with no experience and no understanding of economics -- they're silent. Not to mention the fact that Obama's economic policies are the exact same as Bush's.
shoulda voted for Ron Paul, kids. Is it starting to make sense yet? It will later this year when your savings are cut in half. - jinxplayer, on 02/11/2009, -0/+3Something tells me, you have no ***** clue what your talking about.
- acknotSW, on 02/11/2009, -0/+3All I know about economics is what I learned in a macro class in college, but even I knew a lot of bad ***** was coming when I started hearing and seeing ditech ads 3 to 12 times per day trying to sell interest only home loans and touting that even if you have bad credit, you can own a home.
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