What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
Take Advantage of Ridiculously Low Holiday Airfares view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year. But move on it now.
123 Comments
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -2/+25Eh, he had accomplices but for the most part they weren't his victims. NPR had an interview with an attorney who has helped victims get their money back from these schemes. He said that in every one even a tenth the size of this one, the central fraudster had a small army of bookkeepers necessary to generate the mountains of phony paperwork needed to keep such a scheme going. Accountants don't inadvertently create faked documents for a 20 year period... there were a lot of people in on this scam, I hope they get exposed.
Rather than blaming the victims we should be concentrating on finding all the people who did commit fraud here. - inactive, on 03/13/2009, -1/+22The truth is, the system failed every step of the way over the last 9 years.
For those who haven't seen the excellent 60 Minutes interview with the man who reported Madoff to the SEC back in 2000:
http://tinyurl.com/bf3az9 - nullcodes, on 03/15/2009, -1/+21So wait, how come Jim Cramer's whiners .. oh sorry I mean "victims" .. aren't considered willfully ignorant.
You are only supposed to invest capital you can risk, and not take one person's opinion as fact.
Madoff is different though .. Madoff deliberately lied etc. his victims are actual victims of willful fraud. - homah, on 03/15/2009, -6/+24Makes sense, blame the victims instead of the worthless SEC.
- chicagodigger, on 03/15/2009, -0/+18Where are you guys getting 20% and 40%...by all accounts, it was a 9-10% "return"
- bcpierce, on 03/15/2009, -3/+17I have empathy only for those unwittingly invested with Madoff through feeder funds.
Madoff's clients were wealthy and therefore presumably college educated. Any basic undergraduate business course teaches you that with greater reward comes greater risk. Anyone telling you different is lying...or gaming the system. Madoff's victims became victims out of their own personal greed. - hodedofome, on 03/15/2009, -0/+13You should never put all your eggs in one basket, that's Investing 101. People that lost everything to this guy are poor investors in themselves.
- maley, on 03/15/2009, -3/+15I'm in grad school for accounting and any insane returns to me is ridiculous on common sense though to others it's not apparently. They were greedy at the thought of such a great return. Make finance and business classes mandatory for all high schoolers? What other way will they learn it?
- MikeFallopian, on 03/15/2009, -1/+13I'm glad this article was written - it sucks that these people lost their money, but they put their life savings in the hands of a single stock market investor. In what scenario is that remotely responsible? I wouldn't be surprised if many of the victims thought that Madoff had a lucrative insider-trading scheme and were all too willing to help reap the rewards.
- wilf_brim, on 03/15/2009, -0/+11Madoff was a confidence man. You know that golden rule of that trade? You can't con an honest man. Madoff used social engineering techniques wonderfully. He made it clear that he had a secret technique nudge nudge, wink wink (inside information) that would guarantee a high rate of return, year in and year out. Only a very select group could be allowed to invest, or the secret would get out.
It is sad, but not surprising, that people fell all over each other to give him their money.
But no more bail outs. Stop privatizing gains and socalizing losses. - KyloOb, on 03/15/2009, -4/+15If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
- DrWRR, on 03/15/2009, -0/+10I don't blame the victims but I am curious if those who lost everything ever heard of diversification.
- howrudeareyou, on 03/14/2009, -14/+23So now we're going to blame the victims of Maddoff and his ilk? Interesting piece, but smacks of irresponsible on the part of the Times.
- drmobutu, on 03/15/2009, -1/+10Many of Madoff's "victims" did very well, for a long time...if you had been invested with Madoff, for at least ten or fifteen years, you were making good money...until now!
What is scary, to me, is that there are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, of similar investment advisers and fund managers who are doing the same thing, and haven't been discovered...yet... - Dustin00, on 03/15/2009, -1/+9His fund was running during the dotcom bubble when people were searching for 20 to 40% returns and more. I've heard some interviews with the victims where all their friends were asking them why they were sticking with the lame 10% return.
In that environment, they thought they were being safe, steady, and conservative. - inactive, on 03/15/2009, -2/+10I seen a news cast the lady lost all her money her dead husband saved 5 mill to Madoff.........it was greed she wasnt happy with 5 mill and needed more ... who here cant live on 5 mill must less 1 mill for that matter give us a break
- andyb747, on 03/15/2009, -0/+8You keep hearing how Madoff's victims lost their life savings with him but if they really were life savings shouldn't the money be sitting in a insured bank account and not being invested like its risk capital.
- gotoy1456, on 03/15/2009, -2/+10These Madoff clients CHOSE to invest in a hedge fund as opposed to a mutual fund which is under strict federal regulation. They did this knowing that the hedge fund had higher returns, but were under less regulation. Now they blame the SEC for not subjecting hedge funds to the same strict guidelines as mutual funds.
- edwarddouglas, on 03/15/2009, -1/+8If these people were only getting 9 to 10% what in the world were they thinking giving their money to a person who was so secretive about the investments being made. You could easily get that return from Merrill, Morgan Stanley, Smith Barney, etc. At least with them you know what your money is invested in and if a corrupt money manager takes your money the parent company of the firm will make you whole.
- Wreckage, on 03/15/2009, -0/+7When the head of NASDAQ says something is a good investment, I'm sure even the smartest people will listen.
- Mankind121, on 03/15/2009, -3/+10If someone constantly promises you a 10% return when everyone else is losing money, pull your head out of your ass and try to figure out whats going on
- crashbang, on 03/14/2009, -0/+6Thanks plimpton. I hadn't seen that. The whole .960 batting average thing puts it in perspective. Ty Cobb, the player with the single greatest batting average in the history of baseball hit a .366. So that means he hit the ball about once every 3-4 at bats. Madoff would hitting the ball virtually every at bat. How in the hell did no one see this? Because they all have skeletons in thier closets.
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -5/+11in Finance there is thumb rule. if a deal sounds to good to be true then it is most definitely not true. If idiots didn't figure this out and were expecting 20%+ return a year then they all were idiots.
- Stormwern, on 03/15/2009, -0/+6On the upside, now they all have a really low bacon number.
- PoleCatz, on 03/15/2009, -7/+13WTF This article floats the trial balloon that Bernie Madoff's "victims" should get a government bailout!!! I knew these greedy ***** were going to attempt this at some point. READ MY LIPS: No f*cking WAY is America going to bail these people out. These people looked the other way and at least some of them knew or suspected this was a scam and Ponzi scheme but they didn't care because they thought they were in on the ground floor and were making good money on it.
Don't try to turn your swindle into yet another swindle of America's taxpayers! - borez, on 03/15/2009, -2/+7That's just a bollocks suggestion if I've ever heard one. I read some story the other day that Madoff even conned some guy into his scheme who'd saved his son from drowning. He's a ruthless, lowlife, scrounging thief... throw away the key and let this man rot.
- wilf_brim, on 03/15/2009, -0/+5If you are an "untrained investor" you have absolutely no, none, zip, zero, nada business investing in a hedge fund. In the prospectus they make it clear that these are potentially risky investments, and a total loss of capital is a real (albeit remote) possibility, even in a completely legitimate hedge fund.
When these investors threw all of their money into one, potentially risky, investment they were ignoring all rules of investing, as well as common sense.
Liquidate all of Madoff's assets (including the wife) and distribute as best as possible. Don't bail out these people. - gianpo, on 03/15/2009, -0/+5you don't have to register. Or at least I didn't.
- Pyrolistical, on 03/15/2009, -1/+6Usually I wouldn't ever blame the victim, but they are at least half at fault this time.
While what they thought they were being safe, they didn't do the proper research. In fact you can actually call them greedy, since they were looking for the highest return "conservative" investment. You are on a slippery slope once you do that. The safest investment is with your bank. Money in your account is insured up to a limit per account, so even if you bank goes down you can get you money back. Some may say 2% or 4% is not an investment at all, but I can definitely tell you its the safest. - inactive, on 03/15/2009, -11/+16Totally agree. Greedy bastards deserved what they got.
Just because they are not equals to you and me, they deserve justice and we don't. The government supports the identity theft racket but executes all the power of the law when the riches cry for help. - cosmiccarl, on 03/16/2009, -0/+5Bernie was the former chairman of NASDAQ. People trusted him.
- jayrok, on 03/15/2009, -1/+6Willingly ignorant victims... that term doesn't make sense. No one here is a "victim".
- engimenez, on 03/15/2009, -5/+10I'm glad that they got what they deserve.
- yutt, on 03/15/2009, -0/+5If it sounds like a trite over-simplification of a complex topic, it is.
- jayrok, on 03/16/2009, -0/+4Investing is based on the hope that a profit can be made through someone else's disadvantage. Hence, there are no "victims".
- jgerry, on 03/15/2009, -0/+4I feel bad for these people, I really do. Two very close family friends lost millions, and they are devastated. But they made an investment in a hedge fund. They could have invested in something safer, but they chose not to. This wasn't a savings account or a money market account or a mutual fund -- all of which are subject to strict regulation. They decided to invest, and they lost. That's what an investment is. You can make money, or you can lose it all.
- ddrhazy, on 03/15/2009, -4/+8Wow blaming the victims in this situation is completely retarded. They say that the only people investing with Madoff were people who were not educated about economics, so no actual investment firms ever put their money there. Well so what? Isn't the whole point of investing with someone like Madoff is that you believe he is an investment manager?
What if it turns up that a big company does something similar in the future? Are we gonna pull the same ***** saying that "you guys should've known better, other people didn't do it, why did you?" Gimme a break. New York Times has devolved into such a joke of a news outlet. - MaxxusFlamus, on 03/15/2009, -6/+10it's hard to blame them but honestly...
It should set off alarm bells if an investor promises you 40% returns in one year. - haentz, on 03/15/2009, -1/+5I'd rather say a lot of guys who weren't his victims (because they knew) are kind of his accomplices...
- inactive, on 03/15/2009, -2/+6It's not really something that can be taught, at least not in our current education system, although these classes are more common than a lot of people probably think. I've observed HS finance/business classes and they are a joke. The teacher is saying all the right stuff... teaching them about minimum payments, the dangers of carrying a balance, how to invest wisely in CDs, mutual funds, etc. but half the class is asleep, she calls on students with a money question and they make some reference to a rap song... the class can teach all the right things but that doesn't mean high school students are at all interested in learning it.
- northwatuppa, on 03/15/2009, -0/+4I agree, this article has a surprisingly sharp "blame the victim" slant to it. However, the article is probably worth reading to see just how easy it would have been to avoid the Madoff scheme simply by observing a few basic principles of sound investment strategy.
Also, it seems to me like the criticism applies to the American public at large, buying the myth that housing prices, say, would rise quickly and forever. That turning your equity into revolving consumer debt as fast as you could was somehow wise financial practice.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to blame the victims of this catastrophe, there's plenty of blame to go around and you needn't focus so heavily on Madoff's victims. - icyfire111, on 03/15/2009, -0/+4exactly, a bunch of greedy people who got done in by their greed.
- RetlawST, on 03/15/2009, -0/+4Actually, in truth, they just THOUGHT they were doing well. There were no investments to do well with. He just kept track of the money they gave him, ran them through some calculations that increased their investment by 7-12% a year and invented some %s of companies in which he claimed these people were invested in.
No wealth was actually generated and he was bleeding the money out of his anus. So...yeah. It's kind of like me setting up a savings account for my kid's college, having him put his money from working in there, but never let him see the balance sheet. When he finally asks for the money, I'll tell him I wasted it on hookers and blow. It'll be a valuable lesson for him. - SwiftKick34, on 03/15/2009, -3/+7Personal responsibility, what's this now?
- momedefome, on 03/15/2009, -2/+6Exactly , those people were supposed to be really smart , how couldn't they figure out such an obvious scam???? I don't feel sorry for people being just stupid
- Sneezyx, on 03/15/2009, -0/+4That's not just in finance; it's in _everything_! Alas, P.T. Barnum was right: There's a sucker born every minute (probably faster than that nowadays). Like so many before him, Bernie L. just took advantage of the suckers' eagerness to be ripped off. Yes, he's a bad man, but his victims are by no means completely innocent.
- pingveno, on 03/15/2009, -1/+4That's why you should never give your money to someone whose last name is slang for "stole." Would you give your money to James Takeitandrun or Ted Takeitaway?
(Thanks Paula Poundstone!) - TexMexRex, on 03/16/2009, -1/+4I can't decide if it is the victim's fault or the government. And by the government, I mean George Bush personally. In any case why have thy locked up Madoff? He is the last one I'd blame. Personnel responsibility is like so 19th century.
- sonofashoe, on 03/15/2009, -1/+4The people interviewed want the rest of us citizens to reimburse them out of our tax $$? Most of the "victims" seem to have been greedy elitists. The managers of the feeder funds are as criminal as BM. They were collecting 2-3% annual fees. Am I the only person wondering what service they provided? They completely ignored their fiduciary responsibility. Sue THEM not US.
Elie Wiesel turns out to be an interesting character. He put all of his assets with BM because he thought "there were only 100 people in the club" and "thought BM was God". Now he's said that he cannot forgive BM. Interesting theology, Mr. W. - icyfire111, on 03/15/2009, -1/+4Do you think the SEC will ever be effective? People have to be more prudent with their assets and not depend on the government for everything. It's like the pro gun control crowd who thinks that the police will take care of everything. You can't station a police officer at everyone's front door and similarly, the SEC can't look after everyone's investments. Madoff committed serious fraud and got what he deserved, but I don't think more gov't is the answer.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 123 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is