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How to Haggle, there is no such thing as a firm price.

esquire.com — Haggling for Hot Dogs... (And other real-life adventures in the neglected art of negotiation.) Everything is open to negotiation. Everything. For three months, the author treated the world that way. This is what ensued.

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  • geekchic, on 10/10/2007, -53/+23As someone who used to work in shops, I used to HATE people who would try to haggle for a deal. It is ironic that (in the UK at least) it is illegal to sell an item for more than the advertised price, but not to sell it for less.

    I think it should be illegal to sell an item for any price other than the one advertised - to do otherwise is unfair frankly.
    • thedefiantone, on 10/10/2007, -7/+24That's a very odd conception of 'fair' I've only heard expressed by those with Asperger's Syndrome.
      • FTLJohnson, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1Don't bame statism on Asperger's. Fascists come from all walks of life.
      • YellowSnot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Where I work, we do not haggle at all. Most people don't really care after they figure they can't beat our price anywhere else anyhow. There are those that refuse to deal that way, but that's fine with me, they just waste my time. I don't haggle, if you can't offer me a fair price up front, I'll go somewhere else.
        • herrin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yeah, but who would want to haggle at Wal-Mart?
    • fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -0/+30I haggle constantly, but I'm a white guy with money in a 3rd world country so most prices I'm given are 100's of percent inflated compared to what a local would be quoted.
    • tamarindwolf, on 10/10/2007, -21/+10In Soviet Russia, hot dog haggles you.
    • Dokument, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14so just advertise everything as 1 billion dollars. and sell it for whatever you like. it'd be one hell of a bargain.
      • dinostabOMG, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Hmmm... 1 billion... I think I'll check out the shop next door first.

        (edit) That would probably be enough for the Pentagon to ship four or five washers.
    • solidsnake1298, on 10/10/2007, -5/+18Haggling the price of a hotdog down ONE ***** DOLLAR is a major waste of time. If you aren't successful in the first 10 secs don't waste your time, the time of the merchant, and the time of the people behind you that are hungry. The amount of time and effort you spend to haggle should be proportional to the amount you're lowering the price. $1 is hardly worth the amount of time and effort this guy put in.
      • lordmike, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Exactly... your time and energy have value just like goods and services... if you come home late and are tired, it is worth the money to order take-out instead of spending the time and energy to make dinner from scratch, 'cos your time and energy are worth more than the price of takeout... but for $1 off a hot dog? You are worth more than that... it's demeans your personal worth to haggle over something so small...
        • Nojiko, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Of course haggling over a hot dog is absurd. But that wasn't the point.

          To come away from the article thinking how stupid he was for haggling over a hot dog is to miss the over all point he was trying to get across that it's *possible*. He's illustrating that you can haggle for anything, even something small like that, if you so desire. In his particular case, more was at stake than one dollar in his attempt to haggle over the price of a hot dog. To him it was a personal experiment and if he succeeded, it would mean something to him greater than the dollar he saved.

          Thus the "time and energy" becomes worth the result. Of course under normal circumstances it would not be, these were not normal circumstances.
      • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6You didn't RTFA, did you? I'm glad I did, because I thought it was going to be another one of those self-righteous unrealistic things about how you can and should haggle everything including a hot dog.

        It ends with him deciding that it's not worth haggling over a hot dog:

        So I stood. A hot dog was oddly appealing to me just then. The cart was loaded with fresh chopped onions, a warm tin of chili, a pile of shredded cheese. I approached and offered my money. He handed me my hot dog.

        For one moment, I thought about making an offer on a second one. But I heard the words of the master, telling me to let it go. "Is screwing a working guy out of seventy-five cents really worth the time?" Herb had asked me during our session. "What's the hourly rate there?" So I started slathering on the mustard instead.

        "I've got something for you," the vendor said, and when I turned to look, he was holding a hot dog.

        I smiled and shook my head. "I'm good," I said. "No thanks."

        But he was holding it out for my dog, who wolfed it out of his hands without pause. I laughed. The man seemed happy; the dog, ecstatic. Why not? It's what I had been saying from the start. A free hot dog? That's a good deal for all.
    • halavais, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Many moons ago I worked in a retail shop. The question always came up: can you cut me a deal. The answer was always easy enough: "no." Of course, if they asked my manager, that answer often changed to "10%" for large purchases.

      My wife also managed retail stores, and hated the question. With the exception of very large purchases, she just would not talk about price adjustments, because it was unfair to the customers who didn't get them.

      Having lived in a country where haggling was extremely rare (Japan), and spent some time in a cultures where haggling is the norm, I'll pick the no-haggle binary decision any day. For most products there are enough vendors that you can pick the low price.
      • CiXeL, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5i live in miami. haggling is like a way of life here. i hate it. i would rather burn all my stuff than try to sell it to these people when i leave.
    • melonhedd, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0How is that ironic?
      • drakenlot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5It's like rain on your wedding day.
    • piccols8, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1What about sales, you fool?
  • blackolive, on 10/10/2007, -25/+6IMO skip the haggle: Agree with their price then just say you're low on money.

    "That's a fair price but I'm simply broke. Will you take $20 for
    it?"
    • mrgreenjeans, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14I've heard that one. Repeatedly.
    • max420, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14The problem with that one is it kind of makes you look like a deadbeat.
      • navitatl, on 10/10/2007, -2/+24Who the hell cares? I, for one, don't care about impressing some salesperson.
        • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That's fine if you never have to go back to that store. If you want to be able to get service (return a defective item, etc) or buy something else at that store, it helps to come across as a pleasant and decent person.

          Works great at going out of business sales, though...
    • tamarindwolf, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Nice haggle trick.. wheredya get that one from?
    • TJATL, on 10/10/2007, -10/+380% of republicans abort retarded kids, ask blackolive
      • theone3, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1double you tee ef?
      • codered1322, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Yeah, he was the idiot who said that. Now he is trying to tell us he's not haggling. I hate his face.
  • knde, on 10/10/2007, -2/+113Haggling is a skill.....I kid you not.

    Once a year I visit both Sierra Leone and Nigeria, and every time I visit I go to the local art & craft stores to pick up trinkets and such. None of the prices are fixed and you can always haggle for a lower price or some sort of deal. I am a complete failure when it comes to haggling. I just can't get up the nerve to argue for a lower price.

    In Nigeria, there is a Yoruba word for a person like me - "ajebutter" Which implies you have led or are living a comfortable enough life, that you don't have to bargain. So whenever, I go shopping I always ask one of my local Aunts to accompany me.

    I personally don’t enjoy haggling. I find it tedious and unnecessary. Quote a reasonable price, and by glancing in my wallet I know if I can afford it or not.
    • spookyttws, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26Besides those "Big Box" haggles where the manager is involved or where you agree to buy the insurance, it doesn't work to well in any kind of chain or well established companies. That being said, I agree that in foreign situations, it's almost expected that you haggle. Throughout Little Saigon (well, the one in Southern California), if you offer to pay cash, or spend the extra 10 minutes talking you can get a substantial discount.
      • AxeSwinger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Not true you can negotiate at
        Sears-most durable good purchases
        Best Buy: price match (which is a deal if you bring an online price to the store)
        Most chain restaurants: You can get the server to bring free apps
        Walmart most things on clearence can be sold cheaper if your willing to buyout a size (usually 4 or 5 pairs)

        It's all about your approach.
        • CiXeL, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3I don't think ive ever met a nigerian who wasnt shady. Its like they raise them from birth to be con men and scam artists. I dont get it. It must be cultural.
          • thcobbs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16I'm not shady....

            And because of that, I have come into possession of $100M USD and need a holding bank for the time being. You would, of course, receive a 10% fee for your assistance. If you want to pursue this opportunity, I only need a bank account number!
        • jdpalite, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5How many times did you go to Nigeria to pick up 3 million dollars from some guy's dead uncle?
    • Hayaemsay, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Having spent time in SouthEast Asia I know what you mean, however the Vietnamese usually give you a good deal.

      In fact the only place where haggling is truly accepted in Western culture is on MMOs with a currency and the ability to trade.
    • H0tKarl, on 10/10/2007, -1/+20I don't enjoy haggling either. I usually just offer sexual favors when I want a discount.
      • EllimistX, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1What, you offer to ***** on someone's face?
      • Hoov, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12With a name like H0tKarl who can resist?
    • useful, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3rules for haggling overseas:
      1) find out what the average wage per day is, this will be your range
      2) tell them you live there and their price is way to high
      3) offer them at least 1/4th of their first offer, they are still making money
      • solonGFX, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Huh? Tell them you live there? That's retarded; they'll know if you're a tourist or not. They'll just start talking to you in their native language, and chances are, you don't know it. Then you're screwed.
        • CiXeL, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12its called the white person's discount = 1000x the local price
    • Prathik89, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Yeah, happened to me once, but in India. I wanted to buy a fake watch for 150 Rs (around $3-5 US I think), but my aunt and my mum wanted to make the price go down to 120, the guy wouldn't budge. so they kept telling him things like "i know allot of people who're looking for watches" and "okay thats it, we're going" only to comeback 2 times.
      So i just sneaked to the store when no one was looking and just paid him the money.
      Haggling = Extremely time consuming and frustrating.
      • CiXeL, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1dude why? they know you have money and you just encouraged him.
        • Murdats, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4why? because he has money
        • InsaneGeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Probably because the difference is so little who cares? Using his numbers at worst case of it being 150R = $5, than the value per R is ~3.333 cents, the difference between 150 & 120 is 30 or 3.333 *30 = $1.00. So is spending 10 minutes haggling over a single dollar worth it to you? If I was visiting India, I'm pretty sure that the possible $1.00 I saved by haggling leaving and returning multiple times ended up much more costly to me than not haggling (unless haggling to try and get "over the other guy" is enjoyment to you, which to some people it is)
    • shortcircuit13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3In China, most street vendors and flea market booths have three prices: one for natives, one for Chinese out-of-towners, and one for foreigners.

      From the foreigners' price, never settle for more than 20%.
      • lorean, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1From my experience, it depends on your command of the language and/or local dialect.

        If you are not fluent, make as much small talk as possible (in Chinese) before negotiating price.
    • ozziegt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Yeah, it's a waste of time until you get a $500 porcelain vase for $130 like we did in Hong Kong.
      • CedEx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Hate to tell you this, but even at that discount, the vendors are probably still ripping you off.
        • TheCosmicFool, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5In his defense, he paid much less than the person who didn't haggle and paid full price
      • Jozer99, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I read a great book about someone's travels in Hong Kong. They went to a used bookseller and spent half an hour haggling a used book down from $5 to $1.30. As they walked away victorious, they passed a new bookshop and saw the same book, but new, for $0.50.
    • uberkling, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9It may be a skill, but I'll be honest. If you want to haggle then I don't like you.

      Those who consider themselves "hagglers" are generally the bane of tired, overworked minimum wage store clerks like myself. We're trying to multitask serving the customer, checking the backpack of the wirey 14 yearold little bastard trying to slip through the open boomgate, fill the coke fridge, and deal with the sighing person who wants a return processed and is too rude to get in line. All at once.

      They're $3 each. No you can't have 3 for $8. I'm not empowered to make that decision. Oh? You want me to call a stressed-out manager who's gone on their first break in 6 hours back onto the floor to tell you the same thing?

      Now I might get dugg down for this comment by self-righteous individuals who'll either play the "it's your job to deal with customers" or "it's my right to at least ask for a different price" crowd. But what you people really don't get is that yes, we are there to serve but you don't have to go out of your way to be cretins.

      And to all a good night.
  • mrgreenjeans, on 10/10/2007, -1/+101I managed a shop and I hate the person that comes to the counter, plops down their product and says, "You give me a discount." The person that I know comes in often, spends money and is polite, gets the discount.
    • max420, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17lol I've been going to the same store for a while now to buy my smokes. Next time I go, I will ask the nice chinese lady for a discount, don't think my chances are too good, chinese people in vancouver are known to be stingy... No offense to any chinese people who read this.
      • kutateli, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Another digger from Hongcouver, nice :)
        • CiXeL, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1in hawaii theres a word to refer to those people, theyre called 'chang'
      • wing05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Build the relationship.... go to the same store and usually the same clerk often. Make small talk. Get to know them.

        While you won't get a free pack of smokes, you could end up with a free candy bar or drink at some point.

        They'll figure the profit they make from all the smokes you buy from them offsets that little tid bit they let you away with.
        • TheMidnight, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I got a certificate for a free medium pizza at a Domino's once just because I chatted up a guy while he was making the pizza. He turned out to be the manager and was apparently really bored that night.
      • esmo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No offense taken - we Chinese are generally stingy.
    • WatsonFilms, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11That's sort of the way that the writer was at the beginning, to his own admission. But that's because he was still terrible at bargaining. As it becomes clearer near the end, it really was all about forming relationships, being nice, and working over time to get the discounts.

      I thought it was an interesting article, and quite well-written.
    • andrew7667, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That's what's happened to me. There are a few local shops that I visit often. Most of them know me and give me a discount. I never even had to ask for one.
  • Error601, on 10/10/2007, -3/+34Haggling for commodities like hot dogs is kind of waste of time. Everyone knows basically what the cost and prices are set with a reasonable markup. Unique, used, and big ticket items is where haggling comes into play.
    • NgrHader, on 10/10/2007, -10/+5That guy was a moron for trying to haggle for a Hot Dog, I can't believe the nerve. Even worse when he had a $5 dollar bill and he's expecting the guy to just hand over $4 in change in return...and this guy is a failure in general on haggling on products you can't really haggle on.
      • disparue, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8You didn't read to the end of the article did you?
        • NgrHader, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3Yes, but the point being made is that even though he 'learned' his lesson he is honestly the worst customer anyone can have. I have someone like that at my Best Buy who always buys from us, and even that's good, he only buys it if it's either below cost or at our price. So even though he does purchase and is a very loyal customer I always have to tell my manager that we didn't make a dime off him.
          • johndi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6So Best Buy has a faulty business model and it is the customers fault? The customer isn't a burden. They are the only reason you have a job.
          • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So, you haven't got the balls to tell him that you can't sell it to him because you won't make any profit? It's pretty unlikely (though not impossible) that he really thinks it's reasonable to expect you to never make a profit on him. He might be pushing it, trying to ride the gravy train as long as possible until you grow some balls.

            Or, maybe he's a Fatwallet.com user, and knows every technicality and law and uses logic to make you think you're forced to lose money. He probably conveniently ignores the parts of the rules that protect you from having to sell at cost or a loss.
          • fatlip, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1not only are you a dick.. but you should be banned for that nick.
    • Cerium, on 10/10/2007, -0/+15Did you guys read the story? That was the introduction. The story as a whole was quite good.
    • wing05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9It is indeed about relationships and not just being an ass by showing up out of the blue and asking for free or discount stuff.

      I used to work at a tourist attraction in Toronto (CN Tower) for a couple of years during my university days.

      At the end of my shift, I'd walk to Union station and stop by the same hot dog vendor over and over again and slowly developed a relationship. THe draw to this guy was that he had the most varried condiments out of all the other vendors around.

      The end of the shift would either by the middle of the afternoon or after midnight. But Bill, the Greek vendor would always be there. Except for the dead of winter when he was vacationing in Greece.

      After a few weeks into it, I'd started walking with co-workers to grab the subway back out to the burbs and got them into Bill's hot dog cart.

      At some point I or someone in the group didn't have enough cash on hand and he'd let us go. Of course, we'd always drop the difference off on subsequent visits.

      Soon after, we started getting free pops from him and the money/free stuff shuffle continued happening. It became a ritual that he'd slip something free to us while we'd try to make sure he got paid or tipped.

      I think it all became even in the grand scheme of things. But that is the gist of the article. Develop a raport with a vendor. Or if you don't do that, offer them something of value that isn't monetary.
    • JohnnyHotballs, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Haggling for a hotdog is *****. I own a small restaurant and this dude thinks we are ripping people off for $1.75 for a hot dog. He completely ignores the overhead, the taxes we have to pay, the utility costs involved in heating the product and serving it in an establishment where we have to pay rent, cost of paying employees and their social security matching funds, etc. If you're bitching about $1.75. then you obsiouly have no connection to the real working world where adults have to live everyday.
      • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You fail to see...What he pays is not about you. It's about him. He doesn't care about your overhead taxes, etc. He cares about a hot dog. Perhaps he could get one cheaper from someone else who doesn't have those costs, but prefers yours. Of course, it's well within your right to insist that you get a price that covers your ass; it wouldn't be good business if you didn't. However, there's no use getting all sour about it.
      • Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2A buck once doesn't kill your margins. A buck on every hotdog would. A good haggler could make himself the differentiating factor to be the -only- one you give the deal to.

        All haggling and sales is about offering something special to get a unique deal. Sometimes that "special" thing is a smooth personality. Other times, it's "I'll pay the whole value cash today if you throw this."

        Businesses ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS haggle and ALWAYS get better rates, even in small quantities, than consumers. they also have a LOT more money. This is not fair.

        I sit next to the guy at the place I work for who does most of our vendor haggling. He gets deals from hotels and airlines (with no existing OR suggested future relationship) that basically amount to 30% discounts over the best rate you're going to get if you don't go to expedia.

        Retail has the fortune of being -relatively- immune to haggling. Any inability to hold a profit with haggling sounds like retail's problem, not the haggler's.
    • SuperGreen420, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Clearly you didn't read the article.
    • ssmith2k3, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i don't know about other cities, but in nyc hot dog vendors will charge you a different price depending on your appearance. If you look like a tourist, you might get a $2 hot dog versus $1.50 or something.
  • anaesthetica, on 10/10/2007, -0/+26I got discounts when I was traveling around Italy by offering to pay for things like hotel rooms in cash and up front. An easy way to grease the wheels.
    • tamarindwolf, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1You can also say, "Reduce the price, or my dad will beat your dad up"
      • vornan19, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I guess that would work until the other guy's dad was a monstrous looking bad-ass mother just waiting to pound someone into pulp.
  • murphygr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+67if you want to practice, try haggling with the guys who sell rip-off or stolen watches in the city. it's hilarious. i talked a guy from 80 dollars on a rolex to 20, then told him no, i wouldnt buy it for that much, because i thought it was fake. he followed me for 2 blocks offering me lower prices
    • halavais, on 10/10/2007, -0/+27I had a guy follow me in Jakarta for well over a mile, going from $40 on a fake Rolex to two for $1. He was joking at that point, and we turned around and said "deal!" He was embarrassed at being caught out, and we settled on 1 for $1. (I was traveling without a watch and needed one.) The thing kept perfect time for 5 years before the battery ran down.
  • homerj14, on 10/10/2007, -2/+34If you don't like the price, walk away and they will come after you.

    I worked in downtown LA for 4 years
    • alamandrax, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10My grandmother does that. We go to buy vegetables (this is in India) - the vendor quotes a price, she starts at 30% of their quote. She first insinuates that the vendor is insulting her intelligence with such high prices, haggles it down to 70% of the quote, and then angrily walks away telling them that their prices are absurd. She does this at every vendor she passes by and then when walking back past them again, one of them inevitably calls her back with a 40-50% price. Embarassing to shop with her, but amazing at how regularly her method works.
    • HeatherH88, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I used this tactic in the Nassau Straw Market... They sell a lot of fake purses so many vendors will carry the same bag. You pick one you like, ask the price the first time and say "ok, I'll think about it..." and then walk through the rest of the vendors asking for what you want. Just say "I'm sorry, that's all I have with me." You might go through 15 "no"s but there are so many vendors there that eventually someone runs after you. They priced a purse that I wanted at $75... I ended up getting it for $40.
    • tizz66, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2That's really a crucial fact when haggling - you have to be prepared to walk away. If you try, they say no, and you decide to pay full price anyway, you've made yourself look like a fool, plus you haven't pushed the deal to its limits anyway. When they don't budge, say 'ok thanks' and walk away. They may suddenly change their mind when they see you going for the door.
  • lkmbrd, on 10/10/2007, -16/+8Written by Mort Goldstein.
  • aldenhg, on 10/10/2007, -6/+21I just bought a Dell laptop through their small business division. Instead of making it easy on myself, I decided to call up and order the same thing while talking to a person just to see if I could get a better deal. While on the phone with the young lady, I mentioned that I work as a computer tech and that if I might get a break on the price or a free upgrade I could be inclined to recommend Dells to more customers, something that I had been loathe to do for the past few years. She said she'd have to check with her supervisor. She came back a few minutes later with an offer for 100 dollars off. That was WAY more than I had expected, so I jumped on it and once all the free upgrades were figured in, I got a $900 laptop that would have been $1000 normally and $1300 anywhere else. What it comes down to is leveraging your position as much as you can. Since I'm an honest person I've been recommending Dell and have since sold 3 computers for them. Overall it was a better deal for them and I've sent the saleswoman emails with the order numbers every time, just to prove that haggling can be beneficial for everyone involved.
    • shabuzen, on 10/10/2007, -5/+40$100 dollar discount on a $1000 laptop from Dell? You seriously got ripped off. Try harder next time.
      • alamandrax, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Just go to Deals2buy.com, pick up all the codes that they've listed under Dell deals and start putting them in the coupon code field one after the other. Picking the right combo at times will get you excellent deals. They also offer discounts for first time purchasers. So make use of that. (new account for every purchase, etc - be creative)
      • saleem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1hah yeah agreed w/ shabuzen. a good deal (one i got last july) was a "$1300" laptop for $650 plus $50 cash back, a $100 router, a free crappy printer, and 2 free backpacks.
    • Buckiller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9yeah... they have 25% off coupons all over the place.

      I had a $750 off coupon for purchases over $2000 not too long ago... result? $2019 laptop for $1269.
    • NgrHader, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6I haggled with Apple and ended up getting my MacBook for only 900 just because I happened to have purchased 10 iMacs in the past 2 years for my business and family
    • ryryindo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2there's no such thing as a deal from Dell!
      just wait until you're on hold with tech support from India for 5 hours.
    • Roger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Looks like you just held up your end of the deal.
    • Cam_86, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Yeah, dell is AMAZING for getting deals, if you actually call in. Its prob. because so much of their sales are done online, which have the price set in stone. The secret is to ask them to configure one that would suite you(after giving them an idea of what you want to do) and then play dumb when they get to the price, saying that you did not plan on spending that much, but are fairly confident you need the high specs. You can generally work in a free upgraded warranty and possibly a free upgrade of around 20%.
      Btw, great article. I usually avoid ones that cant be skimmed through, but this was deff. worth the read.
      "I added, without thinking, "He's narcoleptic!""
      Who could say no to giving someone a deal after that was said?
      • parsap, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Please don't abbreviate probably as prob.
      • alamandrax, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1and deff people have feelings too. jerk!
    • Cglass, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm fairly certain, or at least in the past, when you call into dell the supervisors are allowed to go as low as 40% of the advertised price all the way to cost if they feel you have something to provide them. (Future business, recommendations, reviews etc.) That being said $100 isn't great, but it's not bad either.

      I'd also like to point out Dell is probably the easiest company in America to haggle with.
  • navitatl, on 10/10/2007, -18/+8Cool article. Really entertaining. I love how he was trained by a jew.
  • brainheadx2, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6in case anyone is interested you can usually haggle LA Fitness places down to about $25 a month for a membership (rather then what they usually charge $60 a month)
    • Buckiller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah, subscriptions of this type are open to haggling... same thing for YMCAs
    • melonhedd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1But they still won't let you do deadlifts.
    • kevinwiz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The price they just gave me for the new gym thats opening by me was $30/month + startup and I thought it was fair. $25 you say? Whatever.
    • lilrabbit129, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I just signed up with them last week. They gave me and my friend 30/month plus a registration fee. Maybe I'll try haggling in a few months, see if I can drop them down a few bucks.
  • irisadler, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1It's true and I am ersonally such a sucker! If I negotiate price is most likely to go up! Like this guy: http://tinyurl.com/2qmaz8 ... just awful!
  • Piggycow, on 10/10/2007, -1/+40Except you can't haggle at a lot of stores because the cashier has no control of the prices, if you tried it with me I would just stare at you too.
    • AxeSwinger, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7You need to go to the person who can make the deals look for a manager or a supervisor before you get into a line. Make the deal and the manager will tell the cashier how to ring it up.
  • MrBlue999, on 10/10/2007, -0/+18Giving back old hangers for a discount!!! AAARRGGG, why didn't I think of that? I threw out HUNDREDS of those things because they were annoying and took up valuable closet space.
    • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I save them. They're always useful for something.

      Then again, maybe I _could_ replace the exhaust on that 1980 Buick...
  • iceblademan, on 10/10/2007, -21/+12The only people who haggle in this country can be placed into two categories:
    1) Old People - Those who are so senile that they will hold up a line in a store until kingdom come because the price was lower in their day. Inflation seems to be a very foreign concept that obviously comes from "Commies."

    2) Douche Bags - If you haggle simply for the sake of haggling, you are a douche bag. No explanation is needed. The author of the article is included in this category.
    • NgrHader, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2In my book you haggle only if you think they will lower the price in the first place. I've honestly saved the work for many customers at my Best Buy by simply offering them the service of checking who had the better price and if not just offer 10% off the spot
    • AxeSwinger, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2What, do you value the money you earned so little? In todays world of layoffs, supply chain management, bottom-line managing you're crazy not to get the best deals you can. If you can save $20/week thats a thousand dollars towards savings, vacation a house. And $20/week is a low figure.
    • Fooord, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1How do you know the author isn't old? He said the hot dog vendor was younger, so you never know...
    • rossnyc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You haggle because it's fun to try to get your way....and obv to save a few bucks....but more for the fun aspect.
  • CptBuck, on 10/10/2007, -0/+57The only hot dogs i've ever haggled for are the 6 dollar ones at fenway. Needless to say, vendor #37 didnt give a ***** about my offer.
    • blackfog, on 10/10/2007, -0/+33damn vendor #37, he is quite the stone wall
    • NgrHader, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I actually used to shoot at Wrigley and if you wait till the 8th inning most of that food is tossed and thrown out, so what you do is hang out in the concession area and ask if they are willing to sell 2 for 1 on nachos and cooked food, they usually will even give it to you for free. Won't work on drinks though as they just store those away.
    • Spuy767, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1God I love Fenway park.
  • dyckdownunder, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7Loved that story. Brilliant work.
  • blitzer, on 10/10/2007, -6/+0As a North American living overseas.. nothing is better than breaking out the loud obnoxious accent whenever I want a deal. It works every time.
  • brwright, on 10/10/2007, -0/+55"How to Haggle, there is no such thing as a firm price."

    Pssht, tell that to the girl on my street corner.
    • Sophistifunk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Street hookers can *ALWAYS* be haggled with.
    • outlaw686, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0ppsht, tell that to yo momma
    • applessauce, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0If you can't get a deal from her you probably aren't doing it right.
  • soyman5000, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27opinions on haggling aside, this was an extremely well-written article and I enjoyed reading it.
    • gradeahonky, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2I'm preparing to get dugg way down, but even though the idea is really cool, and this article was pretty funny. I still think it was pretty poorly written and sounds somewhat made up. Or really really embellished.
    • deathscytheh64, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Dugg for being a digger who actually reads the articles.
  • Sexton65, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6The only time I haggle is when buying electronics or computer equipment. Here's what I do:

    Visit several stores and find the item you want for the best price you can find. The main thing is to visit the store first to find out what the price is. Let's say it's priced at $150. You want to pay $120. Put exactly $120 in your wallet. Go back into the store and tell the sales guy you want to buy it. When he tells you the price, pull out the $120 and say "well, that's all I've got." This almost always works PROVIDED you go for a reasonable discount.

    A lot of stores will also try to undercut other stores in the same area. While you can lie, I don't like to because I think this puts you into ***** territory. But if you tell one guy at the store you want to buy it at that the other guy down the street is selling it for $20 less (or whatever) they'll usually match it. That's often the policy at a lot of stores anyway.
    • tiberone, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1'say "well, that's all I've got."'

      This also works extremely well if you're buying anything at best buy and don't want to be hassled for the replacement plan.

      a good cashier will stand there, with a line of half a dozen people, and try to get you to spend an extra $100 on your ps3 for literally 15 minutes. but once you open up your wallet and all you have is the exact amount, there's nothing they can do.
      • parsap, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Or you could just stand up for yourself and say, "No. I will not buy an extended warranty."
        • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I've heard that some places penalize employees who do not make a predefined effort to sell the warranties, for example, asking 7 times and giving predefined pitches and what not...

          Granted, that doesn't stop me from saying "You're wasting your time, there's no chance I'm going to buy it, save your time for selling it to the next customer."

          I also say no to credit protection plans that some credit card companies offer me when I call.
        • Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Without yelling (and I've said "I do not want an extended warranty" -quite- firmly), you often cannot prevent a cashier from continually pushing for that warranty. The only thing that has ever worked for me was "If you can't sell it without the warranty, I'll buy it elsewhere".
          • tiberone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"The only thing that has ever worked for me was "If you can't sell it without the warranty, I'll buy it elsewhere"."

            The problem there is that if you just walk away from the sale, the cashier doesn't have to mark down a miss for the product, because you didn't buy it. So they'd much rather see you buy it elsewhere. And they'll tell you so.
    • hodrige, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I love it that they offer the extended warranty (best buy and most importantly car dealers) . I always use the extended warranty to my advantage!!
      ME: "how much for the tivo"
      salesboy:"$249.00"
      me: "how about $150.00"
      (15 min. later)
      SB: "$199.00 best offer"
      me:"too bad... because I only have a budget of $200.00 and I wanted to buy the super extended warranty"
      SB: (at this point he is seeing $$$ signs) "OK $175.00 best offer"
      at that point I take it and change my mind at the cash register about the warranty.
      I have done that with cars also.
  • SOhp101, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Everything is negotiable, but you have to know when you're in a decent position to actually negotiate. If you're in a chain type store, the only person you can probably haggle is usually the manager.

    Paying with cash is one of the easiest ways to get a discount. Offering loyalty is the second best way. Unless it's an item with low demand, you usually have to be willing to sacrifice something in order to get something in return.
    • Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I used to work with this girl..we did physical inventory, counting stuff at stores.
      Before leaving for the day, she would introduce herself to the store manager with a product in her hand, tell him that he's definitely not going to sell out on the product before the next shipment (where the product can be restocked), and offer a price.

      I never saw a store manager say no.
  • expat001, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4The article is a waste of ***** time.
  • Mizzike, on 10/10/2007, -4/+83did any diggers here actually read that article the whole way through? i did, and it told a great story. not what i expected.
    • zolaar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11I did too, and it was an absolutely *fabulous* article. Very interesting! I don't digg often (I read a lot, don't clicky a lot), but this got my vote.
    • hoovcluck, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dugg for the stoned salesman at best buy. I hate those guys.
    • Kazanoe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It read like a book. I didn't care whether or not the topic was good (It was) I could read anything written like that.
  • Dirtynoodle111, on 10/10/2007, -2/+21Very interesting read.

    I usually don't have the attention span to read something like that but for this story I did with no problems.
  • Rooster99, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Im liking how he dealt with the rental car company. Ive been dealing with those situations in that way for a few years, and more often than not you can at least gain a little ground, if not win the whole situation like this guy did. Having worked customer service and over the phone tech support, I can tell you that by making yourself more 'human', you will 9 times out of 10 get a human response. People who whine, bitch, complain, and generally make the whole experience a total drag, are the people who get told how the company wont budge an inch to help them. By staying totally calm, approachable and above all else, 'relateable', you can get so much.

    But I found one of the main things, is to let the salesperson/customer service person know that you know that they arent the whole company, and they probably dont set the rules and policies that they have to enforce. Most of them probably dont even like the policies themselves - So most of them know legitimate ways of making it easier/better and will give them out to customers that they feel need it.
    If someone made me want to help them, then I would usually do whatever I could to work something out. If its just another call about how much the company sucs, cause we havent done our bit, and whatever, then your going to get no special treatment. Im just going to try and do the minimum required work, to get you off the line. I know its harsh and everything, but dealing with idiots for 99% of your working day, wears you down to the bone as most of you would know.
    • davotoast, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6i agree on the whole car rental topic. while recently on vacation my family was renting two cars, one to my father, and one to myself. since I am 22 years old, they were giving us quite the run around as you have to be 25 to rent a car without any additional fees. so they kept asking about how old i was and trying to run my drivers license and telling me it wouldn't go through. this was the first time we had rented with this rental car company, mainly because of their policy of renting to people over 21 but younger than 25 with an additional fee.
      in the end the process was taking so long and we had been very civil and patient with them (although subtly reminding them this was our first experience with their company and it would likely determine if we would do business with them again in the future), so they gave me a car 3 tiers above the one we had reserved, giving me a brand new 2007 model with leather seats and a full stereo system instead of the stripped down compact we had initially ordered, and didn't charge me the under 25 $25 per day fee to boot (a savings of approximately $400). so sometimes its worth enduring a little bit of frustration and if you remain calm but firm you can use it to your advantage.
  • thedragon4453, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Negotiate with cash. Even in big chain stores it works better. Talk to managers as well. This also tends to work better on bigger purchases. TV's and so forth.
  • sbullman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9I agree about the haggling, a hassle in commodity situations. A hot dog. But in some places it's the reality, and I love it. Walking around the streets of Mexico, buying souvenirs, food, anything. Threaten to walk away. Act disappointed. Mention that down the street, maybe even on the way to where you're going, you'll just get it for less. Works every time.

    Then there's Italy. Popping out the main train station I look for a hotel. I don't plan much before I travel. So the first place I look I get a guy offering multiple prices in the first sentence he says upon seeing my suitcase, pointing at a strange door looking like it belongs to an apartment building. The first place I enter and ask the price, they quote me 100 euros. I visibly pause. They say, "Have you been nextdoor? What did they offer? We will go lower." It's like speed-haggling. Everyone knows what situation they're approaching and is ready to end up wherever the negotiations resolve. I LOVE IT.

    Especially with hotels. I mean, there are just plain two situations: 1) you get to a city at noon and go to a hotel to drop your bags, clean up a little, go out for the day, come back, lounge around, take a bath, watch some TV and then go to bed. 2) you show up at 1am wanting to crash for a few hours and then take a shower. Same service? Absolutely not. Prices should be negotiable. It only makes sense. I can see that there's skill, strategy involved and I love this guy's article. Well-written.
  • diggumjonez, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Keep on whining and paying more. Haggling over hot dogs is pretty stupid, but generally businesses don't succeed by figuring out the most fair profit margin. They charge what most people are willing to pay. They are almost always willing to sell the same thing to someone who is willing to pay less as long as someone asks.

    The point of the article is simply that there's proper ways to ask. Just dumping your ***** on a counter and blurting out your demand for a discount is not going to get a damn thing. Being polite, friendly, actually interested in the other person as a person and not a mindless sales drone will go further than any strategy or demands towards getting you a deal. Wouldn't you cut your friends a deal? If you become their friend, you fall into the deal group, too.
  • krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -10/+2In America, haggling is for East Indians and the rare but existent stereotypical Jew. The rest of us just take our business to the more honest dealer. This keeps us from having to ***** around in the future.
  • Eshestun, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22Damn good read.

    Had me hooked the whole time.
  • vtsquire, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4AOL got me for $300... a few phone calls filled with "imagine yourself in my position" and "dont worry about your response script..." got me $150 back so far...
  • SevenTwo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20I'm laughing at whoever considered haggling a hooker.
    • namelessotaku, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Why haggle? They'll just take it from your wallet when you're out.
    • Ryfael, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0That's why you never fall sleep with a hooker
    • hodrige, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1From what I have heard: Always... Not that I have any real life experience in that.
    • hoovcluck, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Hookers don't give a *****. They will always charge you for it.
  • Treshnell, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Garage sales, flea markets, and antique stores are great places to practice The Art.
  • annenk38, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Has no one here ever bought a car? Darn.
  • brucerchapman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3RTFA : the guy comes to the realisation that haggling for a hot dog is not worthwhile. It's well written and entertaining.
  • purplebrowndog, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1brought tears to my eyes, your story did...don't want to rain on your parade here..however a bit of what you did (in my opinion) might be classified as somewhat unethical...I certainly understand the power of negotiation but...for christsakes, it appears you are saying we must lie to be good negotiators? not my cup of tea.
  • icyone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Hot diggity dog
  • spb88, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2This is such an awesome article. Bravo, as a salesman, being on the other side of life you have no idea how much you wouldn't expect this kind of stuff to happen. As I'm sure with most industries theres ins and outs everywhere and if you can get your foot in the door for those few small moments before the exchange of goods for dosh, you might be able to save yourself some pennies.
  • Souzetsu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That was a cool story. I remember my band trip to Hawaii had a large area that had a lot of carts full of goods. You could easily barter at least $10 from those people, using a lot of the tactics from this story.
    • Shadowhawk109, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If you were in Waikiki on Oahu (outskirts of Honolulu, where most tourists go) it was the International Marketplace.
  • Midtowner, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3It's difficult to haggle with most Americans. In the U.S., when I'm working in a store owned by a person from either Africa, Asia, or the Middle East, I consider everything negotiable... and generally speaking, I'm right. Folks in the U.S. just don't appreciate the art of haggling -- of course, Americans are generally the biggest suckers in the world.
  • InvertedDonkey, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6this reads like chuck palahniuk.
  • AussieScribe, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3This guy should write fiction.

    Oh, wait. I think he already is.
  • Baxattax, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13Haggling emboldens terrorists.
  • L0g1X, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I dont have much experience with haggling for tangible products. But if you're hiring a freelancer, you can totally haggle. They're also great to practice with.

    I hired a freelancer off an auction website where freelancers post the price they can do it for and you get to pick which freelancer to hire. Of course, I pick the cheapest one if they look like they can do the job, but I haggle them. The ones who offer you the lowest price are the easiest to haggle because if they're working for you for such a low price, they must be desperate for money.

    I can usually get about 20-60% off. I got a joomla component done for $50. The freelancer offered $100, then said he was firm at $70, but after some haggling he said $50 but not anymore because he's getting annoyed. You basically haggle until they're about to refuse your offer.

    Here's a good article for negotiating with freelancers:
    http://spicywebsites.com/content/view/22/20/
    • Novagenesis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I love the idea of finding someone desperate for money and then pushing them so close to cost they can't eat. Wonderful, you get the Nobel Peace Prize for that one.
    • jessehadden, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm a freelancer. Know why your type has to prey on the inexperienced? Because my type won't service you anymore.
  • johanrocks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4My favorite thing to haggle for: cars. Recently got a fully loaded Nissan Murano SL that was $38,000 for $27,000. Brand new.
    • desslock73, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Nicely done. How did you do it?
      • psykiv, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Agreed to a 12% APR :(
        • theholycow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1That's not such a bad idea. Then, later, refinance it for a more reasonable rate.
      • thcobbs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Pick a rainy day near the end of December to go shop.
    • thcobbs, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1""
    • bromar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1nice! its true, and easy to get money off of vehicles, whatever they tell you at first will always be high. Even higher then the MSRP. They usually markup about 10 - 15% above their invoice price, and will usually sell it to you between 3-6% you can get it down to. I was just about to lease a brand new impreza (in canada its more expnsive) and they first offered me it at 584 / month for 36 months, i said there was no way i was paying that, cause i know the retail price is this, I am looking at this car that similarily priced that and they offered it to me at 510 / month, so really i only really want to pay around 450/month. In the end He gave me an offer of 470. which is like 3600 bucks over those 3 years.

      Prices really are negotiable, they are offers, north americans just arn't use to the concept, everything over seas is negotiable, and in places like Turkey its part of their culture to do it. I was there last year, and even bartering for things like oil lamps was an experience, where they would bring tea and you talk about how much you are willing to pay.
    • mcduckov, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Haggling for a car is worth the time and the effort because you're talking about big money. If it takes less than a couple of weeks to a month of negotiations you're doing something wrong. You need that time to build up a relationship. It is stressful and I hate it but it works. Once they think they have you in the bag they will work pretty hard to make it happen.
  • vorathee, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i agree this article was well written. it does offer many good pointers and a good read as well.

    i live in Thailand and you almost have to haggle over prices on things like foods, clothes, etc from street vendors everywhere i go. you win some & you loose some, but you always have to haggle over prices. it's almost an insult to the vendors if you don't do it...no joke.

    everyone should learn this art of haggling or at least try it out every once in a while. you'll be surprise!!!
  • SicKiller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I haggle with the corner Whore over how many inches she's going to accept.

    Well written article BTW. Long but a good read.
  • nick111, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I think this is all pretty blinkered to be honest - it's predicated on overlooking the fact that it's another human being you're talking to, and if you really want to optimise the situation you will come away with a new contact rather than a bargain.

    Luck is a function of the number of people you know.
    • z23rdhsuan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i think its sad that the art of haggling is lost. there is a real and fun interaction that can be had there. with modern consumerism we just silently fork over our cash and the only communication we have with the person at the counter is stale and predictable.
      congrats, you made a friend
      i look forward to sniping your inane comments in the future
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