What is Digg?102 Comments
- wrek, on 09/05/2008, -4/+57Key word here is NEEDLESS. He demonstrated (well wasn't required to actually since Delta didn't show up) that the airline did not need to cancel his flight but did anyway. If your flight is canceled and the other airlines are also canceled, you're staying where you are and you're accepting alternative travel arrangements. In this article, this flight was canceled well in advance of the approaching weather event and other airlines were still flying so he was absolutely right in getting his money back. Delta should be ashamed.
- niravp80, on 09/05/2008, -1/+31So sad, that they couldn't cough up $100 to avoid public humiliation.
- gametavern, on 09/05/2008, -2/+30Even when not weather related, they say weather so they don't have to give refunds. "oh, it's snowing in siberia, which is causing us delays here in Dallas"
- skealoha86, on 09/05/2008, -5/+31Delta Airlines flight was canceled today due to a snake related related cause.
- DforSpiD, on 09/05/2008, -1/+23... I'm sick of these ***** delays...
- insomniac8400, on 09/05/2008, -0/+19What is the point of "negotiating payment"? He won the court case, they had to pay him.
- erichw1504, on 09/05/2008, -2/+16No, here:
I'm so sick of these ***** delays for these ***** flights. - billizm, on 09/05/2008, -0/+14It would have cost Delta more than the $938 to have representation in court. I'm thinking he probably could have won the case even if it really was the weather's fault, since no Delta rep showed.
- charm803, on 09/05/2008, -0/+13Well, this isn't bad, seeing when it is "needlessly" cancelled.
I used to work at a hotel and people wanted refunds if it rained in California sometimes, because they came here to "vacation" and weather ruined it for them. - ncc74656m, on 09/05/2008, -0/+10This needs to happen more often. Maybe then the airlines will first abandon the ridiculous hub and spoke approach, and second, be more accomodating to the people who pay their bills and put up with WAY too much *****.
I was going from NYC to DC six months ago for business, and normally, I could just catch a shuttle flight which would get me there in an hour. But since I'd have to deal with security, incompetent and belligerent airline personnel, possible delays, and whatever other joys typically come with air travel, I figured I'd be a lot better off and happier by taking my life in my own hands and driving down there.
In the end, I wound up enjoying myself a lot more driving and got there in good time. Oh, and whenever I wanted a drink, I didn't have to call a scowling attendant to get half a glass of soda or water, which was possibly refilled from the plane's tanks! Just hit a rest stop and get Starbucks or whatever I wanted. - esfisher, on 09/05/2008, -0/+10What's even worse is the possible long-term customer loss due to this story being public. If just one person changes airlines it will cost them more than $100 in lost revenue.
- inactive, on 09/05/2008, -1/+10A charming tale of the hard working only losing $100 instead of $900.
- IphtashuFitz, on 09/05/2008, -2/+11Weather is the default claim airlines make whenever a flight gets canceled. This demonstrates how you can go about telling if the airline is lying to you or not.
- sstidman, on 09/05/2008, -0/+9I assumed the point is that they could appeal the decision or simply delay payment for a very long time, forcing him to go back to court to get the money. This was a much easier option for him.
I still don't understand why Delta chose to save $100 over a confidentiality agreement. Now that the secret is out, other folks will copy what this guy did. - picardo, on 09/05/2008, -0/+7The problem with this story is that it's not true. The traveller in the story did NOT become $838 richer. He in fact spent $938 for a ticket with ANOTHER airline, and never had Delta pay him back his original fare -- the one that was cancelled? If Delta had paid him for the ticket he bought with them, plus the money he paid to JetBlue, then he'd have come ahead in this transaction.
That doesn't mean what he did wasn't worth it. Opportunity cost of being delayed by six to seven hours on a highly paid professional can be huge. In the time he'd have spent at the terminal he'd make thousands of dollars. So by not being delayed to his destination (even though technically he spent $100 more than he'd planned), he actually made money because he didn't have to miss work the next day. Not because he had Delta pay him $838.
I realize this is a minor detail, but kind of important. - thedogfatherx, on 09/05/2008, -1/+7You GOT to be kidding me? Serious?
- screwzluse, on 09/05/2008, -2/+8That's true unless there is a clause regarding weather, which there most likely is. Why this guy got his money back was because he proved weather wasn't the issue as other flights had no issues flying out at that time.
- legallybrunette, on 09/05/2008, -0/+6He only won the case by "default judgment" which means that the other side didn't even bother to show up to court or answer his complaint.
Delta probably figured that losing about $1000 was cheaper than sending counsel to plead for them in the small claims court. - niffx, on 09/05/2008, -1/+6"The lesson is, Don't let them bully you with bogus cancellations," says Berns. The whole thing took him about four hours, he recalls, resulting in earnings of less than half his hourly billing rate. "But I'd do it again," he says. "That's how good it felt."
EXACTLY!!!! The money is only the door prize when it comes to sticking it to Delta, or their evil twin sister United. - matthewkg, on 09/05/2008, -1/+6Don't ***** with lawyers.
- FeloniusMonkey, on 09/05/2008, -0/+5US Airways has been infamous for cancelling late-night flights, particularly from Philadelphia to Columbus, OH, when ticket sales are low. I've heard the "weather" excuse when there was absolutely no threat throughout the entire flight path. The "mechanical issues" excuse is another one they used a few times. They offered no consolation to the passengers either. The 2nd time it happened, I had to start bitching and moaning to Corporate, after which they finally gave me a $100 voucher just to shut me up.
- fani, on 09/05/2008, -3/+8Flying is a joke these days. My grievances -
- we've been having flight technology for almost 100 years, but no one could find out how to solve the simple problem of letting people sleep in the flight in horizontal position instead of sitting uncomfortably and trying to sleep ?
- again, no one has developed proper solution to curtail jet lag ?
- you have to ***** pay for pillows, blankets, food etc. etc. etc.
- you get no entertainment system on domestic flights. Even though NY to LON is about same as NY to LA !!
- people are packed in like sardines in a can
- EXTENSIVE DELAY BOARDING and DISEMBARKING. WHY CAN'T THEY USE MULTIPLE DOORS TO ENTER/EXIT ?
So easy - just add another corridor to the gate and you're good. opening a second door will improve efficiency 50% right there. flights can empty/fill 50% faster !!!!!!!!!
- Too many weather related delays
- Airports are congested. Even after you arrive at the airport, many times, the plane just circles around for like 25-35mins needlessly.
- Tickets are becoming way too expensive. You can never buy a ticket of choice for holiday weekend unless you book a year before. But even then, they're priced higher
- TSA Security is a joke and very Orwellian needlessly.
- Lots more. - rjn17960, on 09/05/2008, -1/+5I'm sure that most people who've flown more than a few times have a horror story about some particular airline.
Delta does suck, though. They lost all our luggage on our Christmas trip to visit my family, including all the presents for the kids. It was impossible to find anyone with any information, or to find someone who showed the slightest bit of responsibility. They just didn't care. We eventually got the luggage back, more than a month later. - VAXcat, on 09/05/2008, -0/+4 Getting a judgement against someone and collecting it are two very different things. The person you have a judgement against can negotiate with you to see if you'll come off the amount, to avoid the time & effort it takes to get it collected against their will.
- killboy123, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3This is retarded. I don't see how taking one case of 'needless' cancellation and generalizing that everyone can sue for weather cancellations will be beneficial to ANYONE.
The author should know that his article only encourages airlines to fly more frequently even though there might be additional risks. They are already flying with low fuel, now you want them to fly in potentially hazardous conditions. That's great!
FYI, arriving 'a few hours' before snow is NOT something I would consider safe.
Do you know how much variation there is with snowfall ? You have to measure either A) the winds of an actual snowtorm, or B) estimate when the clouds will reach the critical density point that causes them to start precipitation.
It could have EASILY started snowing 5 hours earlier, and then landing a plane on a snow filled runway that isn't READY for snow is NOT what you want. So instead of encouraging people to sue (like this article does), how about encouraging people to have a little extra common sense and let them figure out what kind of action is appropriate when your flight is canceled. - mezzanoitaliano, on 09/05/2008, -1/+4You're completely correct. This person clearly has no idea about the operations of an airline.
- wrek, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3Ah, but can you interpret?
- FeloniusMonkey, on 09/05/2008, -2/+5I think you might want to wise up yourself, Punchy, taking that kind of attitude with people you don't know.
My point was that the same low-attendance flight was repeatedly cancelled for random reasons. I would never want to fly in a mechanically unsound aircraft. The noble thing to do is to bring in a plane that works, and as quickly as possible, so your loyal customers can get where they're going. - charm803, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3I'm serious!
My manager and I used to have an inside joke:
"Sure, ma'am, let me go turn down the weather."
People would do that knowing we had NO CONTROL of the weather, but they abused the "customer is always right."
I worked at the Renaissance Hotel, so customer service was really important. - SPLASTiK, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3Delta probably would have won had they shown up. I'd imagine there's some clause in the TOS when you purchase a ticket, just like you can't sue if your bags don't arrive on time.
- TheMidnight, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3Can't you lower your voice?
No I can't stop! This is how I talk! Haven't you seen my movies?
MMM MMM BITCH! - fani, on 09/05/2008, -0/+3This isn't cynical or whiny. Its a list of my grievances. Don't tell me you're happy to sit through all those problems. I have provided solutions as well - eg. adding more vestibules for entry/exit is a solution.
Where does Obama voter or politics come into this ? You're a moron for mentioning that.
Its people like you who bend over and take it thereby leading to unnecessary mass acceptance. - kelmaster1, on 09/05/2008, -1/+4They're waiting for Samuel L Jackson
- chrissku, on 09/05/2008, -3/+5***** you delta
- homercles337, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2This is true. I saw a report on this a while back. Some crazy high percentage of "weather related" cancellations are NOT weather related at all.
- psdabfm, on 09/05/2008, -2/+4What? No government agency stepped in to save the day? An average citizen stuck up for himself? Hmmm ...
- IphtashuFitz, on 09/05/2008, -3/+5The issue here is the use of the claim of bad weather. Airlines don't have to give cash refunds for weather-related delays, just a voucher, etc. for a different flight. If they cancel for "personal" reasons unrelated to weather then they have to provide a cash refund on request. That's why the default response from most airline personnel when a flight is delayed/canceled is due to the weather. This guy proved the weather claim from Delta was bogus since other airlines were flying the same route, so Delta was required to live up to their obligations.
- IphtashuFitz, on 09/05/2008, -2/+4More likely it would just get them to start issuing cash refunds for tickets when asked (and the passenger is in the right) rather than trying to convince passengers to take unwanted vouchers. That would be a lot cheaper then potentially flying in unsafe conditions and crashing.
- IronTek, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2No...he got about $800 for four hours of work (read the article...I know it didn't have any equations in it, but still)...
Now, doing some Math (I'm not in academia though, so it will be correct), he spent 4 hours of work to get (roughly) $800. Now, $800/4 hours = $200/hour. That came to about half his hourly billing rate, said the article, so one can figure his hourly rate to be about $400/hour. - twiztidsinz, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2a charming tale of an idiot diggtroll..
- cawpin, on 09/05/2008, -3/+5Um, they still have to give you a refund. You paid for a service on a certain date at a certain time. If they break that deal the contract is null. They have to give you your money back.
- ranon78, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2Wow, that $100 really came back to bite them in the behind. I would have taken the confidentiality agreement any day.
- uselessexpert, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2Good to see that the big guys don't win all the time!
- pauldy, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2He never proved it, the defendant didn't show up so he got the default judgement. The question of if it was or was not valid for them not to fly to me is still unanswered. I personally would rather a carrier err on the side of caution and also wonder had the flight taken place and there been any type of problem with the flight if this would have been the same guy suing the airline for not being more cautious. Seems like more of a grey area than black and white right and wrong. Just as easily as it could have been a shady practice of stacking the flights to increase the margins on unfilled flights it could also have simply been the airline being overly cautious.
- Falldog, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2Bravo for suing the amount he was out, not some ridiculous sum of money.
- inactive, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2Good for him, worthless article however.
"How To Sue An Airline Over A Needless Weather Cancellation"
"One traveler's tale of how he took an airline to court - and won."
OK the word "How" is used in the title and subtitle and it says absolutely nothing about "how" to do it. Apparently, you just show up at a small claims court and there is no hassle or paperwork. - inactive, on 09/05/2008, -3/+5Do you really want to fly in an airplane that the pilots refuse to fly because they believe that it is dangerous????!!!! What is it with people that think a 55 million dollar machine with a million moving parts will NEVER break down. I think you are in deep need of some "self brain surgery" to remove that tumor - or maybe a little "self psychoanalysis" because if you think you know more than the pilots then you have a real problem.
- miket, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2well airlines are in business to make money, of course theyre going to try to make more of it.
Some airports DO have dual boarding, and use it on larger airliners where it is actually needed. If you cant sit 5 minutes waiting to get off a plane...
The only time my flight has ever just circled the airport needlessly was once, coming into chicago. There was severe weather and high surface level winds, and the arrival rate was cut back to 50.
-Ex United employee
oh almost forgot... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - insomniac8400, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2The airline did lie. Stranded passengers immediately hoped onto flight via other carriers to the exact same destination.
- Otto, on 09/05/2008, -0/+2@roosterjm2k2: The reason they gave him was demonstrably false. While they can cancel your flight, they do have to have a reason. Airlines are not free to do as they please, there are laws involved, you know.
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