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155 Comments
- dusty7969, on 06/02/2009, -1/+64Wait, I though we gave them Billions of dollars so they wouldn't go Bankrupt. Now they are going to go Bankrupt and we are going to give them even more Billions. What am I missing.
- amabaie, on 06/01/2009, -0/+54...as expected.
- hawkspur, on 06/02/2009, -2/+36Sorry folks, but this should have been done months ago, without the taxpayer billions. If you don't have a viable company YOU GO OUT OF BUSINESS. Too bad for all the people that work there, but ffs, you make a ***** product and try to sell it at 6000+ dealerships, you deserve to fail.
Adapt and survive. Stagnate and die. - str1fe, on 06/02/2009, -2/+34Maybe this means the auto industry can innovate now.
- paradigmx, on 06/02/2009, -2/+28Ironically, Ford is the only American auto manufacturer that hasn't needed a single dollar from the gov't
- NMRgentleman, on 06/02/2009, -5/+29I think the part where this bankruptcy makes sure the Obama supporting union voters get more of the new company, instead of the people who lent the company money who were actually legally entitled to it. Pay off the people on top, and they make sure you get the bigger cut. Welcome to the Obama economy.
For more on this, see much of the environmental movement, or read "The Climate Industrial Complex": http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124286145192740987 ... - synned, on 06/02/2009, -0/+17Come on Ford, take the spot.
- RomeyRome, on 06/02/2009, -1/+17Ford will be punished for not submitting to the government by having government fleets converted to GMs.
- RomeyRome, on 06/02/2009, -2/+16It's like a gambler with a problem at a casino. I lost $30b, if I double down, maybe...oooh that was close...one more time! Double or nothing baby! Ooh. So close... Oh well. Not my money. One more baby!!
- qiaohua, on 06/01/2009, -0/+13So many lawyers, so many legal fees.
- derekivey, on 06/02/2009, -0/+13Ok, where is my free car now? We gave them money with our tax dollars and they have all these cars sitting around, so where is our free car?
- RomeyRome, on 06/02/2009, -0/+13My recycled post:
GM makes small efficient cars overseas. They won't et them import them & will force them to build them here for a higher cost. Also, whoever buys Opel, will not be able to import them into the US so that they don't compete with Gov'ment Motors. See U.S.P.S. and how they deal with competition.
I've always loved my Cadilacs, but I will pass on it in the future & whatever $5k incentive they might give me to buy one.
Oh, and guess how Ford will be rewarded for not going ***** up? I'm guessing a big chunk of gov. fleets will go GM. - inactive, on 06/02/2009, -3/+16This is not a bankruptcy.
This is a government-sponsored bankruptcy.
There is a big, big difference.... - willjeffery, on 06/02/2009, -3/+16About damn time if you ask me. This company has been producing crap for decades, hopefully people will now realize that the Germans and the Japanese actually know how to make a half decent car.
Good riddance. - Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -2/+15"do you have any idea how many companies have filed bankruptcy in the past few months?"
And how many of them were remotely the size of GM?
"Do you have any clue how many are barely pulling through this thing?"
And yet they made it through.
"Besides, not everything GM made was junk. Stop being so short sighted, just because it's not German or Japanese does not make it *****"
No, it just ups the probability significantly. I would rather buy a reliable car than bet $20,000+ on whether or not GM's managed to pull its collective head out of its ass. - Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -2/+14"It might have helped if people actually, you know, bought cars instead of hoard every cent they made"
And yet other manufacturers of consumer goods didn't risk going out of business after a few months of recession. Oh, and by the way, since when the hell are we all require to blow money on garbage products? - Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -2/+13No, it shows what a worthless pile of mismanaged crap GM is. GM is one the biggest car manufacturers out there, and they can't weather a year or two long storm?
- RomeyRome, on 06/02/2009, -1/+11"Those poor, poor bondholders... what will they ever do with their billions!"
They'll invest it in foreign countries, as it seems that they can be simply told to go pound sand now when it comes time to collect. Congrats. - NMRgentleman, on 06/02/2009, -2/+12This has nothing to do with how I feel about unions. This is about the sanctity of contracts, something that is absolutely necessary for an economy to function. Fact is, those bondholders lent GM money knowing it wasn't too stable financially, and also knowing that if GM did fall, they would be first in line to pick up whatever was left. Then Obama was elected, and they learned that political connections actually mattered more than legal contracts. Our evolving system hasn't been called "crony capitalism" for nothing.
- ernestog84, on 06/02/2009, -0/+10i can see this happening very soon
- copywriteink, on 06/02/2009, -0/+9You mean throwing taxpayer money at the problem didn't solve everything? Go figure.
- Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -1/+9"oh, and Circuit City..."
Circuit City? Seriously? That's the example you're bringing up? Circuit City was a poorly run, god awful store long before the recession came along. The recession was just the final nail in a coffin long in the making. Sound familiar? - inactive, on 06/02/2009, -1/+98AM? Old.
- linagee, on 06/02/2009, -0/+8No, it shows how much ***** *they're* in.
- linagee, on 06/02/2009, -1/+9This is not an auto industry.
This is a government-sponsored (tax sponsored) auto-industry.
Submit your complaints to the top politician. - camino262, on 06/02/2009, -0/+8I will never buy a Volt.
- wrathoftheafe, on 06/02/2009, -0/+7what's ironic about it?
- Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -2/+9If American taxpayers have to spew billions of dollars to prop up a company, hell yes good riddance. It sucks people have to lose their jobs, but we can't continue to support a dead beat company just because some people might lose their jobs. GM's had their run.
- Kate1240, on 06/02/2009, -3/+10It's sad how much taxpayers money was wasted on GM :(
I have no plans to ever purchase a GM or Chysler again. - Sudha, on 06/02/2009, -0/+6Problem is not about GM filing for bankruptcy but the ripple effect it and other automobile biggies will have on the other dependent business.
- NMRgentleman, on 06/02/2009, -2/+8Absolutely they will RomeyRome. A lot of Democrats make policy like we're the only country in the world. Regulate carbon-dioxide like a pollutant - sure, that'll help, that just won't drive all our heavy industry to China or anything where they can pollute more than they ever did here!
And I'm mainly a stock investor, not a bond investor, but what is my biggest position now? An ETF that holds shares of companies in Singapore. Was it my biggest position 6 months ago? Not even close. Oh, I invest in a lot of American companies too, I want to help us rise again despite Obama. But I'm also going to protect myself by investing in freedom. - inactive, on 06/02/2009, -0/+6***** you back!
- cwg1960, on 06/02/2009, -1/+6your beloved UNIONS are what killed GM. Granted not all of them are as greedy as the UAW but still....
- scottocom, on 06/02/2009, -0/+5That might boost your economy.
- RomeyRome, on 06/02/2009, -0/+5If they manage to make cars people want. The number of people that want super efficient cars has been greatly exaggerated by the few that do.
When a family of 5 becomes hamburger on the freeway, everyone will yell at GM because they couldn't make a 1000lbs 100MPG plastic Bamacar that could take a mediocre hit.
They want to make $10b/year to break even? Pipe dream. - m3arvk, on 06/02/2009, -2/+7I'd rather we lose the jobs and suffer the consequences than have corporate socialism which prevents the free market incentive to innovate. ***** the automakers and double-***** the banks.
- sinisterD, on 06/02/2009, -0/+5you get better odds and a greater chance of getting back that $30b at the casino
- Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -1/+6"when millions of jobs are lost and the economy completely collapses, I'm gonna laugh at how stupid you are while screaming "I ***** told you so"
OK. I'm sure your Y2K bunker will come in handy, too. - Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4"My point is that those auto makers did not escape big oils power at all"
Because they use the most available, easily obtained fuel?
"Hydrogen - "
And where is all the energy to produce hydrogen going to come from? Hint: the most efficient way of doing so still involves steam cracking of hydrocarbons, aka oil. Oh, and seeing as there aren't any hydrogen stations, hydrogen distribution pipe lines, large scale hydrogen production facilities, there's a bit more to implementing hydrogen than making a car. Who is going to pay for the infrastructure? Who is going to buy hydrogen cars lacking that infrastructure?
"Electrical - "
Yeah, sure. If you want to travel 40 miles and wait overnight for a recharge to continue. Oh, and let's not forget that that electricity actually has to come from somewhere. The current electrical grid can't sustain charging millions of cars. So, who gets to pay for all the new power plants and what technology will they use to generate electricity? Oh, and just so you know, a good portion of the US's electricity comes from oil.
"Ethanol -"
Ethanol. Right. Good old corn based ethanol destroys soil, produces a net energy loss, and loses money without government subsidies. And yes, since ethanol produces less energy than it ever produces, the energy still has to come from somewhere, generally oil.
"most alternate fuel technologies are quite mature, but the Oil companies don't give incentives to companies that pursue them."
Speaking of mind boggling ignorance... Perhaps you ought to look in to the realities of the engineering of widespread use of those fuels before you go babbling about oil conspiracies. Making a car go forward is a very small portion of making the world run on a new fuel. - celotil, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4I'm 33. Half my working life has been in IT&T, the other half in manufacturing (mostly aluminium and steel, with a leaning towards plastics).
I've built ROPS (Roll-Over Protection Systems), and water gates and water control systems (penstocks, stop gates, weirs), starting with the basic materials you get from a steel or aluminium supplier (such as 50x6 flat bar, 65x12 flat bar, 75x75x10 angle, 100 rhs), and cutting, grinding, welding, drilling, and bending those materials into various weird and wonderful shapes and forms.
I am one of those working class you seem to feel you're speaking for, and I say ***** you.
If a company is run badly, it should fail, it's that ***** simple. You may ask why, and I'll tell you,
While a company is running well, and everyone feels happy that the company is running well, everyone is not suffering from continuous, growing stress levels. When that company is failing, and it's obviously from bad decisions made from "on high", then everyone not earning enough money to retire on a month's pay cheque is made to suffer.
I've seen it happen time and time again. I'm seeing it happen right now, right where I'm working. The company is imploding, and no-one in upper management seems to give a flying *****, but that's okay because everyone I work with, who isn't a completely useless *****-up, will be able to take their skills and find jobs elsewhere, while the morons who make up upper management have, essentially, *****-all skills, and will fail - the best example of this is one fellow who left last year, thinking he could make more money elsewhere, found out his "skills" were little more than buzzwords and *****, and came crawling back for his old job.
I suppose it's a cold way of looking at things, but I gave up on rainbows and unicorns years ago. - TheSpook, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4Why would anyone want to start a car company in the U.S.?
- heartcoldfusion, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4"What am I missing."
The money the government forcibly took from you and gave to them, of course. - Echo1010, on 06/02/2009, -1/+5I'd like to see the crash test results with a 91 CRX. You are basically comparing a go-kart with a car that has hundreds of pounds of safety equipment.
- Mothrog, on 06/02/2009, -2/+6Maybe American taxpayers would buy GM cars if they were worth a damn, and considering the number of plants good old GM has in Mexico and Canada, I have a hard time giving a damn about supporting "American made" cars. So, how long have you been sucking the UAW teat?
- Kidddrunkadelic, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4GM ain't built Ford tough.
- kovac9478, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4lol!
- seanayb, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4What the ***** do you know. Maybe we should stop wasting our money and time keeping these companies barely alive on their deathbeds for a little while longer and instead, I don't know, do something that doesn't involve tripling our debt.
- driverdave, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4and now we own 60%. thank you mr obama!
i've spent my life avoiding their products, and now you make me part owner. sweet. - sharpone, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4"Blah blah blah... you would be happy to have had 3 million jobs liquidated 'all 'cos you hate unions..."
Jobs are for businesses, businesses are not for jobs, they are for wealth creation.
An employee is nothing more than a tool which is leveraged to bring the company more wealth per employee than is being given to that employee. This difference is called "profit" and is the sole reason for a (non-profit's/charities excluded) company's existence. If suddenly you are giving out more money than you are bringing in, those tools called employees suddenly become leeches. In this case GM borrowed bags of blood from a group who had blood to give, in order to keep feeding their leeches. This they did in hopes that one day they would reverse the process, and give the blood back with interest. So tell me, in what possible way is it right to take whatever value is left in the organization, give control to the leeches and say "***** you" to the stake holders who fed those leeches for so long? Stealing from a wealthy person is still stealing. If you did it on an individual level, you would go to jail or worse. But if a collective mob "votes" the theft, than that is apparently moral, because, ***** it.. the leeches need to feed or they will die. - SaltilloPunk, on 06/02/2009, -0/+4Rules and regulations have changed over said 18 years. Multiple air bags and other safety components are mandated to the automakers. Consumers expect A/C, power windows, power locks, power seats, and other such convenience as standard equipment now. And they want everything to be in a vehicle that gets no less than 5 stars in the crash ratings. That is a lot of mass added to the vehicle for the powertrain to be moving around. Finally, there is an affordability limit to contend with as well. In the end, comparing fuel economy in vehicles 10 or even 5 years apart is comparing apples and oranges.
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