What is Digg?306 Comments
- dogfood, on 11/27/2008, -19/+281Let these Dinosaurs die. These are sick companies who have been out of touch with their consumers and workers for decades. They produce crap. Inefficiently. That nobody wants to buy.
- ZepHed69, on 11/27/2008, -31/+287I say, as a taxpayer, let them file for bankruptcy. Renegotiation of all their contracts and agreements (including the ones with the UAW mob, who refuses any "give-backs") will be good for all Americans. This will bring innovation back to these dying behemoths and ultimately lower the prices of their cars. I do not think that it is the quality of the product, but the PRICE of the product that is the problem. The high prices of American cars, in general, are due to the unions driving the costs of labor and legacies higher than the FREE MARKET will bear. With this in mind, when a company files for bankruptcy, there will be mandatory renegotiation of all contracts as well as complete reorganization. Isn't that what the government wants to do with taxpayer money? Why not let the COMPANY bear the burden of failure, not the CUSTOMER!!!!!
- rytr23, on 11/27/2008, -54/+234What douches. Please please please congress - let them wither an die. F the UAW and the Big 3 management. I only buy foreign anyway..
- thenekkidtruth, on 11/27/2008, -7/+145That does it for me. Hiding their bad behavior while asking for billions from me at the same time? If they want my tax money, US automaker CEOs need to step down first.
It's only right - they're the problem anyway, as this little folly more than reinforces. - Terisita, on 11/27/2008, -5/+97GM has 7 private luxury jets not only for Rick Wagoner, but for other "top" executives that ran the company into the ground. Ford has 8 private jets also for the same use and the CEO of Ford and his wife only travel in Private Jets, they will not travel in first class, only their version of first class. Do you know the cost of just one round trip from Detroit to Washington when they appeared before Congress? $ 22,000. each & think of the jet fuel waste? Do you really think throwing 30 billion to these idiots will change anything? Think again. I just wrote an investigative article on this nonsense. Obama should take heed.
- magic6435, on 11/27/2008, -2/+60Downgrade to first class? Sorry but when someone is coming to beg me for money the ***** better be hitchhiking across the country with barefeet. Hell they could have gotten out of Detroit on the excellent worldclass train and rail system we built back in the 40's o wait .... GM did everything in their power to kill that back in the 70's and then again in the 80's.
Punk bitches. - NinaOdell, on 11/27/2008, -8/+65
SHAMELESS THEFT ALERT: This was JenniferinMO's shout to me -
"This pisses me off. They are criticized for being bone-headed and instead of doing something about it they ask the FAA to help them to hide they fact when they do it in the future. I am livid. In a time like this, when they have the fate of so many people in their hands they are worried about getting yelled at rather than thinking about what they have done. This needs to reach the sky. Please shine some sunshine all over this thing."
Brazenly cut and pasted because I couldn't have said it any better and it's exactly how I feel. - crapuccino, on 11/27/2008, -2/+37How about in these troubled times eliminating 7 of 7 private jets?
Then they won't look like as large an ***** as we all know they are. - inactive, on 11/27/2008, -5/+34Give me 25 billion or the economy get's it.
Too big too fail is too big. - PrometheusBorn, on 11/27/2008, -2/+27No kidding it will affect us all horribly. But let's face it, they need something to pull their heads out of their asses.
They wrote GM suppliers 'personal' emails pleading to support their bailout. Was there a SINGLE mention of HOW they would improve as a company such that we wouldn't be bailing them out next quarter? NOPE. Just 'You are SOOOOO screwed if we don't get this money'.
It is so pathetic that a company like Tesla can produce a reasonably priced car (100k is very reasonable for such a small scale production car) and GM can't trump it with all their resources available. Let them fail in the short term and clear out all the old garbage. Force them to do an honest restructuring, THEN let's watch America finally start to compete in the car market again. - PerfectTommy, on 11/27/2008, -4/+26Hey GM, ***** you!
Love,
-America - Newsdude, on 11/27/2008, -5/+25Agreed! they do need to fry. Lets get some real management in the big 3 and get rid of the UAW.
BTW, happy Thanksgiving everyone! - Newsdude, on 11/27/2008, -2/+22Dugg...
If you like this article, you'll love what Ford CEO thinks, He doesn't think he needs a pay cut:
http://digg.com/business_finance/WSJ_com_Ford_Resi ...
This also really needs to be brought to US Taxpayers attention - kingmanic, on 11/27/2008, -0/+20They went to Washington to plead poverty and ask for favorable loans. It's ironic they would do so in expensive private Jets. Taking a private Jet is not in itself a bad thing. It does have advantages but when you do so with the purpose of the trip being to ask for financial help it undermines your case. CEO are generally VASTLY overpaid in the US compared to the value they represent to the company. Many global companies compensate their CEO's for extraordinary results while American companies tend to reward them for just taking the job. Thus while the big 3 and their overpaid CEO's plead for money, the foreign car makers just tighten up their belts and shoulder on.
As a comparison, the average Japanese CEO makes 17 times the average salary of their workers while an American company makes 39 times as much as the average worker. In the Car sector the Japanese have been out performing the big 3 for years and GM's dramatic market share has eroded. away. It doesn't seem American CEO's are paid better because they are better. They are paid better because they set up the system that pays them and no one questions it. In comparison to all corporate money outlay, CEO compensation correlates least to success or returns on that money. - kingmanic, on 11/27/2008, -2/+22Their business practices are. They have improved greatly int he last 15 year BUT their management made the wrong decisions. That inefficiencies is he speaks of. You can make the best god horse drawn carriage in existence but if no one is buying there isn't a point. GM makes the best god damned hummer on earth but no one is buying. Change or die, pleading for a bailout will result in the company not learning the lesson.
- kingmanic, on 11/27/2008, -3/+22If they go bankrupt I'm sure many entities will buy up their assets. Even if GM never sells another car as GM they may as Toyota Cadillac or Chrysler Chevrolet.
The Auto industry has more than one player and if GM, Ford, or Chrysler can't manage itself well why on earth ought we bail them out? If they can't manage then they die and others take their place. It is not like they are the only car manufacturer on earth. - Dumbledorito, on 11/27/2008, -2/+21"What is the only thing other than publicly laughing at taxpayers while using the bailout money for hookers & coke could the GM board members do to make the public hate them more" for 500, Alex.
- mrsteveman1, on 11/27/2008, -5/+23Congress is the one thinking about giving them 25 billion dollars moron
- bpoteat, on 11/27/2008, -2/+19Daewoo filed for bankruptcy because of poor management and nobody wanting to buy ***** cars. GM should have to file for bankruptcy for the same reasons.
GM opened a $300Million plant in russia while simultaneously closing down plants in Michigan while Toyota was building engine-building plants in the same general area. Most Toyota Camry's you see today were built in Kentucky. One of BMW's most productive facilities is in South Carolina. So, who benefits Americans more. GM or Toyota? It depends: if you're an executive for GM or one of the idiots investing in them, then obviously GM benefits you. If you're one of the thousands of people let go from a GM plant and/or got a job at one of the Toyota plants, then Toyota.
Why exactly should Americans be forced to invest in a poorly run company that does less for Americans in general than foreign ones? The fact is that American car companies did this to themselves, never gave a damn about Americans, and never will. - pgouy, on 11/28/2008, -4/+21Dear America,
Please let them fail.
Thank you,
- Capitalism - bushisadumbass, on 11/27/2008, -1/+18True, but they need to file for bankruptcy anyways. We cannot keep bailing out companies.
- bobartig, on 11/27/2008, -3/+20Except that the private jets have a higher accident rate, and mortality rate than compared to commercial airlines. So, you actually mean "safety", rather than, you know, actual safety (the kind that actually prevents death).
- mksmothers, on 11/27/2008, -5/+22let them fail.
- BossKey, on 11/27/2008, -4/+21Stop with the ignorant fear-mongering jobs canard. Bankruptcy does not necessarily mean you fail, it can mean you restructure so that you can continue doing business, not shut down the company.
Besides...at what point do you stop propping up an uncompetitive business Communism-style? You need to have the automakers restructure in such a way that you aren't simply delaying the inevitable. If all you do is shovel good money after bad, then not only do you lose the money, but you STILL lose your American jobs. So the Big Three must find a way to be competitive in an American free-market way.
A great quote from last week:
"The proposed bailout of GM, Ford, and Chrysler overlooks an important fact. The US has one of the most vibrant, dynamic, and efficient automobile industries in the world. It produces several million cars, trucks, and SUVs per year, employing (in 2006) 402,800 Americans at an average salary of $63,358. That’s vehicle assembly alone; the rest of the supply chain employs even more people and generates more income. It’s an industry to be proud of. Its products are among the best in the world.
Their names are Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and Subaru."
- Peter Klein
Bottom line: If all those other companies can achieve profitability and high quality manufacturing on American soil with American workers, what the hell is wrong with the Big Three? - superterrorizer, on 11/27/2008, -1/+18Give us 25 billions dollars...but you can't ask how much we're going to spend on family travel.
GM, Ford, Lowlife executive who have the audacity to ask for money like this. Pathetic. Let them fail. - PrometheusBorn, on 11/27/2008, -3/+20So.. patriotism = buying american products blindly? Maybe you should go figure out what FOOL means first.
A TRUE patriot would understand this country was founded on capitalism. Not charity.
Buying an inferior product for a raised price (whether it be an American car or something at a small store vs. Walmart) is nothing more than charity.
Produce the best, and you will excel and become a world leader. We did this long ago. Produce crap, and you will fail. And we will ALL fail together. That is true. But buying American will only delay our own inevitable collapse. We still have wiggle room today to recover should the Big 3 melt down. Barely. String it out another decade with bailouts and money they don't deserve, and this country will have NOTHING left between us and whatever rising superpower wants to take us over. - gsadamb, on 11/27/2008, -1/+17Well maybe they could have at least, like... shared a private jet to Washington.
No, they took three separate planes. And if that's a valid argument, they should just say that instead of trying to get the FAA to hide their activities.
By the way, a lot more recognizable celebrities fly commercially. Very few people are going to recognize the CEO of Chrysler. - Dumbledorito, on 11/27/2008, -2/+17If someone offered you a ***** pie and a cherry pie, would you buy and eat the ***** pie because it was "made in America?"
And many "American" cars are built in Canada, while my Honda Civic was built and assembled in the US of A.
Further, a lot of these US Automakers hold stock in "foreign" car companies.
People buy so-called "foreign" cars because nobody wants to pay for a gas-guzzling SUV that requires a ***** of maintenance or a sedan that'll fall apart before its paid off. If GM would make cars people actually wanted, then there wouldn't be a problem from the demand side. However, with the economy in the dumpster, nobody wants to buy ANY car unless it's absolutely necessary, so what good does a bailout do other than take more money from taxpayers so GM can make stuff nobody wants or can afford? - Anpheus, on 11/27/2008, -8/+23BalooUrsidae, here's the thing. There's a monopoly in the US Auto industry. And it's not any of the suppliers, it's not any of the manufacturers... It's the laborers.
You see, when Ford wants to make a vehicle, they need to pay for the parts, they need to pay for the facilities, and they need to pay for the labor to put it together. For parts, there is competition to produce the best part, whether of the highest precision or quality control, or for the lowest price, or whatever. There is choice. For facilities, there are so many suppliers of robotics, so many places to choose where to build a facility, etc. But then there's labor. And labor isn't just a monopoly to Ford, they're a monopoly to all three of the major US automakers. It's them or ***** you. And here's how the system works.
UAW: We want more money.
Ford: Eh, you're already getting a pretty great deal and we're hemorrhaging money.
UAW: We'll strike.
Ford: *****.
The UAW can do that because they're the -only- option. It's them, or no one. And because the UAW is employed by the other big 2, they can play the long game. If Ford doesn't capitulate and is brought to its knees, then Ford is dissolved, its facilities and trademarks sold, most likely, to GM or Chrysler. So then there would be a Big Two, not a Big Three, and guess what, there's still competition for parts, still competition for facilities, but there's still only one UAW. GM would have to hire the former Ford employees to run the plants they purchased for a steal.
That's the problem. The UAW -can't- lose in this situation. This is an example of 'game theory.' If Ford gives in, the UAW wins. If Ford doesn't give in, GM or Chrysler take over the plants and the UAW negotiates a contract with them (under threat of strike.)
Basically, the UAW has a gun to each of their heads and as long as one of them is still around, they still get paid. It's a horrible situation. I'm not saying unions are bad, I'm saying monopolies are. They're anti-competitive, they're disruptive forces in economies that cause stagnation. Monopolies are like the tumors of the economic world, and this one needs to be treated. - Pake, on 11/27/2008, -2/+17There is a huge difference between being a CEO and a President. Very few times will a CEO ever receive a death threat, but a President essentially receives one every day, because killing a CEO doesn't alter history nearly as much as killing a President would.
Their use of private jets isn't about security. It's about greed and ego. They're so caught up in running the companies they control into the ground, they feel they are just too good for commercial transportation where they might have to mingle with common folk. - inactive, on 11/27/2008, -1/+15GM's Gulfstream Aerospace G-IV-X Gulfstream G350 has tail number N5116 It's owner has requested that it not be trackable from http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N5116
- inactive, on 11/27/2008, -2/+16These CEO's are so out of touch with reality, even if we give them yet another bailout, they will just end up coming back to ask for another bailout. This will be their 3rd bailout if they get it and it will not save the big three and the taxpayers will be out $25 Billion on top of the $700 Billion for the wall street banks, the $75 Billion for the insurance companies and over $100 Billion for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and all the other corporate bailouts that will do nothing.
The big three were losing money and losing market share when the economy was good, what makes you think that they will all of a sudden change their ways after they have gotten 3 bailouts to make themselves a better company? - bushisadumbass, on 11/27/2008, -2/+15That is GM's problem. It's not the American people's fault that GM decided to make crappy unreliable cars that no one wanted. Not to mention the 13 MPG gas guzzlers.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler have been doing this for a while now. Let them go into bankruptcy. If we bail them out, where is it going to stop? Are we going to bail starbucks next?
This is getting ridiculous. The executives need to be held accountable for their stupid mistakes. - gavdana, on 11/27/2008, -6/+19Yes, they would make them more popular. Since they are mostly built in the US, it would be good.
- no1ukn0w, on 11/27/2008, -0/+13The big deal? The big deal is they are BROKE.. and they want OUR money. You shouldn't be a "highly paid" "high profile corporate executive" if you run a company into the ground.
I know a couple CEO's that are "highly paid" and run "high profile business'", yet they aren't asking for tax money to save their asses.. Maybe it has something to do with them understanding that money shouldn't be wasted. - macslut, on 11/27/2008, -4/+17Dear FAA,
Please don't let GM executives fly corporate jets on the way to ask us for money.
--The Public - publiclurker, on 11/27/2008, -3/+15Why are you constantly trying to associate the president with these self important incompetents?
- LilRabbitFooFoo, on 11/27/2008, -3/+15Yeah, the only Americans still making a living wage...right, they are the "problem"...NOT.
No. The problem is that each of these car makers have umpteen vehicle models (in order to "compete" with the others) but only 1 or 2 of them are selling.
For example, Ford sells Mustangs...and not much else these days. If Ford ONLY sold Mustangs, for exampl,e they would be very successful and very profitable...only smaller.
So, narrow the company focus down to the few models that are selling instead of XX models that aren't.
It's really that simple. - mloiterman, on 11/28/2008, -0/+12The ability of a CEO to travel in a private aircraft is a privilege, not a right. If the CEOs of Ford, GM, and Chrysler want to travel in private aircraft, they should return their companies to a level of profitability that can sustain those perks.
- kaiwai, on 11/28/2008, -1/+13The UAW have ***** over the car industry every time expecting more money than what their members labour are worth, couple that with crap productivity, crap quality of their output - it was only a matter of time before the ***** hit the fan.
- Timbertron3000, on 11/28/2008, -0/+12Dugg for proper citation.
- publiclurker, on 11/27/2008, -3/+14Other employees do not deserve death threats.
Are you paid to whore for these people or what? - publiclurker, on 11/27/2008, -0/+11You mean to inflate their over important egos don't you. The average person wouldn't even recognize any of these business failures. They are able to recognise your feeble attempt at justifying their actions, however.
- ericdano, on 11/27/2008, -5/+16While we are at it, can we get that bitch Nancy Pelosi to take first class then? She's rubber stamped everything for two years after promising change.........
- tgc1, on 11/27/2008, -1/+12***** 'em.
- bobartig, on 11/27/2008, -0/+11No, the timing of this is not unfortunate, its incompetent planning on the part of GM. This is reactionary to the fact that Congress and the US don't agree with their use of private jets. They probably have decades since they started using their private fleet to have requested the banning of their private jet use. They're only requesting it now because they fear a public audit, and further flogging.
Since all of their private jet use prior to this point was publicly logged, this CANNOT POSSIBLY be related to security.
Here's a thought: To avoid death threats, stop being a douche, stop destroying the US auto industry, and start being a leader.Demonstrate your earnest desire to turn the industry around by making cuts and personal sacrifices. Lead by doing.That is, after all, their job.
If they can't, or won't do this, step down. Get out of the way, and let someone else fix the problem, or let the beast die. - choopie911, on 11/27/2008, -2/+12They should pull an old wartime measure on them. Bail them out, but only if they start supporting/ constructing responsible mass public transit. It's a more "green" move, gives back to the country, saves jobs.
- rmaddy, on 11/27/2008, -0/+10Honda, Toyota, and the rest hire non-union workers.
- NinaOdell, on 11/27/2008, -5/+15First class is just about the easiest and hassle free way to fly publicly. Other than the fact that they've got to take off their shoes just like the rest of us, the board first, leave first, and have complete privacy.
Lost time? They're time is no more valuable than mine. It just costs a *****-load more.
Lost productivity? Are you telling me that GM wouldn't be in tank now if they only had MORE private jets? - kingmanic, on 11/27/2008, -0/+10Your data is out of Date.
http://oica.net/wp-content/uploads/world-ranking-2 ...
Toyota is #1, GM #2, Volkswagon is #3, and Ford is #4. The F-150 was best in 2007 BUT this year it seems cars have taken the fore, in 2008 it seems it will be the Chevrolet Silverado. The Big 3 have improved greatly in the last 15 years but they have a ways to go to get back the dominance they once had and they appear fiscally less sound (see. Bailouts). -
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