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Foreign Investors Systematically Dumping US Treasuries
telegraph.co.uk — As feared, foreign bond holders have begun to exercise a collective vote of no confidence in the devaluation policies of the US government. The Federal Reserve faces a potential veto of its rescue measures. Asian, Mid East and European investors stood aside at last week ’s auction of 10-year US Treasury notes. “It was a disaster,” said Ray
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- laserblazer, on 03/21/2008, -23/+69Feel free to thank Nixon for taking the U.S. off of the Gold Standard and the treasonous Republicrats for decades of systematically selling America down the river.
- keymanjim2, on 03/21/2008, -44/+6Things were going fine until the democrats took over congress.
- chicofaraby, on 03/21/2008, -6/+24That's a joke, right?
- keymanjim2, on 03/21/2008, -23/+3I find no coincidence that things didn't start going down hill at a perceivable rate until congress went left.
- saisumimen, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1You mean the Congress that the president can easily circumvent thanks to the USA PATRIOT act and others like it?
- Nicolyrezk, on 03/21/2008, -9/+10It's the republicans that shat all over the Dollar, by starting a war that just wasn't fundable.
- keymanjim2, on 03/21/2008, -16/+5Then why are the problems manifesting themselves after the democrats took over congress? If it was the war that is causing the problems then it would have happened years ago.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -2/+12 Ok, see if this makes sense. You buy a bucnh of ***** you don't need, can't afford, etc, etc, etc. Do you see the problem right away? Nope. There isn't even mention of it for the first 30 days, a whimper over 60 days, some concern at 90 and "HOLY F'n *****! I'm screwed" at 120.
People have been warning America over the last few months(Years) but that was always met with cries that those people were jelous of America, hated America, couldn't understand America, etc, etc, etc....
Please don't think this is a new thing - this will take years to fix, because it was years in the making. By both sides of the Isle, but this current Admin takes its' incompetency more seriously than most. - Number23, on 03/21/2008, -2/+1Wrong reply, sorry
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -2/+12 Ok, see if this makes sense. You buy a bucnh of ***** you don't need, can't afford, etc, etc, etc. Do you see the problem right away? Nope. There isn't even mention of it for the first 30 days, a whimper over 60 days, some concern at 90 and "HOLY F'n *****! I'm screwed" at 120.
- keymanjim2, on 03/21/2008, -16/+5Then why are the problems manifesting themselves after the democrats took over congress? If it was the war that is causing the problems then it would have happened years ago.
- Jesterman81, on 03/21/2008, -8/+13I believe most Democrats also voted for the war. Don't say Obama didn't either because he just didn't vote! Wake up and realize both parties have sold you down the river.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -3/+8Don't know why you are getting dugg down. Is there anyone that wishes to debate the point that both parties in America have screwed over the American people to aid their own piticular "interest groups"?
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -3/+8Don't know why you are getting dugg down. Is there anyone that wishes to debate the point that both parties in America have screwed over the American people to aid their own piticular "interest groups"?
- knupso, on 03/21/2008, -0/+7Yep it's not just the Dem' and not just the Repub's They both sold us out.
- chicofaraby, on 03/21/2008, -6/+24That's a joke, right?
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -15/+23You know there isn’t enough gold in the world to buy Manhattan, right?
You know that NO COUNTRY, NOT ONE, operates on a gold standard, right?
You know that the EU has a HIGHER debt burden than the US, right?
Dolt.- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -10/+5 You know that your first point underlines the problem of not being on the gold standard?
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -0/+9Um, no. Simply put the world values the island of Manhattan and its robust economic growth more than all the gold in the world.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -1/+6 If we were on the gold standard the price would rise so that there would be enough gold to able to purchase Manhattan. Anyone who doesn't understand that should be lurking more and posting less.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Perhaps, but only via crushing deflation, It wouldn’t increase the value of gold, so much as you would decrease the value of Manhattan.
Manhattan, is valuable because it has a vibrate economy, a rich and dynamic culture, countless would class restaurants, nightclubs, museums. In short, it’s a great place to live, which is why a condo on 5th Ave is worth more than a condo in Gary IN.
Apart from using it to making shiny trinkets for women and rappers, gold doesn’t’ have many uses - RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1 Manhattan has intrinsic value. No given commodity backed standard will change that. The standard doesn't nescessarily have to be gold, it just has to be SOMETHING besides the full faith and credit of the United States government. (I have no faith)
The idea that Manhattan would suddenly lose value under a given system is silly. - Number23, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Silly? Not at all. Let’s imagine we adopt species money. Since all commerce would require some amount of shiny metal other assets would shrink in value.
Additionally, species money favors those who have wealth over those who create wealth. Businesses generally need to borrow money to create or expand enterprise. Species money tends to deflate the currency and raise the cost of borrowing and thus reduces economic activity.
Real estate in Manhattan is expensive because it’s a desirable place to live in no small part due to its robust and dynamic economy. Weaker economy= few people desire to live there=less vibrant culture and lifestyle=lower RE costs.
Again, there is no perfect monetary policy. All monetary policies have pro/cons, winner/losers; however, I would support one that favors those who create wealth over those that have wealth. Fiat money does just that.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Perhaps, but only via crushing deflation, It wouldn’t increase the value of gold, so much as you would decrease the value of Manhattan.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -1/+9 To blame Nixon for this mess is about as shallow an outlook that you can possibly have. This all relates back to the Federal Reserve system of debt based unbacked currency. America is an elaborate Ponzi scheme. Any study of our economy that refuses to acknowledge this is utterly worthless.
- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -6/+6Where does it say in the Constitution that only gold is money? Please, point it out to me...
- mOdQuArK, on 03/21/2008, -0/+11Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: “No State shall…coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt.”
No amendments have passed which override this clause.- mOdQuArK, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4By cheesily replying to myself, I will point out that I realize this clause was intended as a restraint on the states vs. the federal government. There are other clauses in the same section which have a little more detail of what kind of monetary system the founders were thinking of, none of which have been amended, and which don't really fit what we've got now (except for really bizarre forms of "fit").
- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4Yes, gold AND silver. There is plenty of silver, so the argument that "there wouldn't be enough gold" is moot.
- Hangly, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1I think copper pennies are ok too.
- mOdQuArK, on 03/21/2008, -0/+11Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 states that: “No State shall…coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debt.”
- Adamande, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3I believe the EU as a new empire will fall even faster than the American one. I just can't really see the old imperialist powers England, Germany and France agreeing on anything long enough to build a lasting structure. They might be happy now, surfing the wake of the dollar plunge, but as soon as the EU starts getting the same financial problems the US is facing cause of runaway debt, it will fall like a house of cards.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1you know that the UK isn't part of the Euro zone yes? We don't use the Euro, we still use the Pound Sterling. We set our own interest rates and while we are tied to Europe in many ways, we still run our own economy (although Gordon Brown has messed it up pretty bad)
- Adamande, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1You're right, but as a member England has responsibilities towards the EU, which could become troublesome if the Union was in lack of money.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1you know that the UK isn't part of the Euro zone yes? We don't use the Euro, we still use the Pound Sterling. We set our own interest rates and while we are tied to Europe in many ways, we still run our own economy (although Gordon Brown has messed it up pretty bad)
- brad3378, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4I don't know what the value of Manhattan is, but you're probably correct.
AT TODAY'S GOLD PRICES, there probably isn't enough gold to buy Manhattan.
Gold is just one commodity. Just like the Cement used to create the sidewalk at Time's Square, the Steel supporting the Empire State Building, or the Copper skin of the Statue of Liberty. In my opinion, saying that all of the Gold in the world should have the purchasing power to purchase all of the Cement, Copper, Steel, jelly beans, or whatever on this planet is ridiculous unless the value of gold is manipulated. Then again, why should a central bank be allowed to manipulate the value of the paper currency already in my wallet by printing more on a whim?
There are two sides of the issue. Both sides bring up legitimate points.
Here's a great starting point to help educate ourselves about both sides of the issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard- macman2k, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4It all comes down to supply and demand. There are not enough dollars in existence to buy every asset at face value! Only when the banks LEND against an asset to they create the money to pay for that asset, but when they do this they raise the average price of all other goods and services. Money is simply the most marketable commodity and the amount in existence does not matter. Doubling the number of dollars will not make it any easier to buy Manhattan nor would reducing the number of dollars to equal the number of grams of gold in the world.
- dralezero, on 03/22/2008, -1/+3I think the whole point is to not have any country on gold standard, but one fake currency for all. So obviously no country is using the standard anymore. EU has been in the game longer and already had their universal Euro put in place. Now its USA turn.
Dolt.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -10/+5 You know that your first point underlines the problem of not being on the gold standard?
- jim3008, on 03/21/2008, -7/+4um..........you know under a Gold Standard we will have no inflation and lower "Growth", which means our purchasing power will be less than today, and we will have deflations, some inflation is actually a good thing, the bottom line is no currency system is perfect,
- SzaszMan, on 03/21/2008, -1/+7Yes, under the Federal Reserve System (e.g., a central banking system) we do have inflation (which, in small doses, is a good thing for the economy). But on the other hand, under the Gold Standard, the US Federal Government wouldn't be able to rack up enormous amounts of debt from a willing central banking partner and then proceed to inflate it's way out of debt at their gain, and everyone else's expense. We are now in the process of getting collectively economically butt-***** exactly like the Germans just prior to the Weimar government collapsing (and just prior to Hitler taking power, BTW).
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 03/21/2008, -0/+8No inflation with the Gold Standard? You're kidding right? Why would I want the price of milk to be tied to the cost of Gold today. Wow, today Milk is 1/400 of an ounce of gold per gallon, but yesterday it was 1/425!
- jim3008, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1i'm not kidding, because the output of goods grew faster than the stock of gold, hence deflation, and that's just an outlier, if you plot the milk/gold ratio over couple of years, it's pretty much a straight downwards line
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 03/21/2008, -2/+3Deflation is bad for an economy too.
- SzaszMan, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Both deflation and inflation are bad for the economy. A little bit of inflation is good, any deflation is bad, but right now I think all indicators are that we're looking at a lot of inflation over the next 1-2 years. This article is just yet another indicator.
- SzaszMan, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1OK, so you may have a point about swings in the currency's value under the gold standard being possible as the price of gold oscillates. But it's a lot harder for the currency to be deliberately inflated under the gold standard, unlike now, which is much more my concern. Like someone else said, no currency system is perfect.
- jim3008, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1i'm not kidding, because the output of goods grew faster than the stock of gold, hence deflation, and that's just an outlier, if you plot the milk/gold ratio over couple of years, it's pretty much a straight downwards line
- macman2k, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Inflation (increasing the money supply) transfers the wealth generated by increasing production of goods and services from the people to the creators of money EVEN WHEN AVERAGE PRICES REMAIN FLAT! A small amount of inflation is only necessary because the debt system DEPENDS upon increasing the money supply to cover the interest on past debts. Deflation is only "bad" because the banks default due to their FRAUD in lending money they never had in the first place.
There is no harm in falling prices, it is good for society! With a relatively fixed money supply then gold in your mattress gets a return equal to the average productivity of society because prices will fall as the number of goods and services available (and competing for that gold) increase. In fact, even with regular pay cuts (as competition for work increases due to increasing purchasing power) would not be a bad thing because your PURCHASING POWER would be the same. If your pay was flat then you would effectively get a raise!
The banks, government, and media have a fine way of making "their" problems "our" problems and then getting us to believe it.
- DestroyFascism, on 03/21/2008, -4/+16The problem is the Fed is private and not state owned. This allows far too much power to arrive into the very hands that will "steal" every dime they can get..
- SzaszMan, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Exactamundo. Which is why I believe the gold standard, with all it's undeniable faults, has some obvious advantages to the Federal Reserve System.
- KhanneaNL, on 03/21/2008, -4/+2And the funny thing is I am LOVING EVERY MINUTE OF IT. Look at me this me GLOATING, because after 7 years of bush I HATE THE US.
- 4degrees, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2yea, but what a ride...
- keymanjim2, on 03/21/2008, -44/+6Things were going fine until the democrats took over congress.
- huckabee, on 03/21/2008, -3/+44This is terrible news, of course, but on a lighter note, check out the end of the URL for the article.
- Joe_rigby, on 03/21/2008, -1/+2Nooooo that just makes it worse.
- snotrokit, on 03/21/2008, -1/+5"http://...../ccview117.xml#*****"
in case they change it. that is beautiful. - DeadFox1, on 03/21/2008, -3/+4LOL! credibilty lost.
- MASTERPL, on 03/21/2008, -0/+5The poster added that as a joke. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m ... works just fine
- DeadFox1, on 03/21/2008, -0/+6Credibilty regained.
- huckabee, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Yep, it's just a "blind" HTML tag that's ignored by your browser. I thought someone at the Telegraph was going to get reprimanded, at least.
- Frnnkdlxx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Alex Jones, Alex Jones, Alex Jones, Alex Jones.
PPLLEEAASE. For the sake of at least having an alternative opinion as to why,look this guy up. Just for one day, humor yourself, go on his website, add his alex jones podcast from itunes, and check him out.
What do you have to lose, right? Just... please do it.
- pleiadianagenda, on 03/21/2008, -13/+64America's dollar has been in decline since 1013, with the Federal Reserve and the implementation of the IRS.
It's simple folks. The Federal Reserve isn't even federal. Its private money from families like the Rothschilds and Rockefellars (no different than the DeMedici family in Italy during the Renaissance.)
These private families lend govts money, and expect not only to be paid back, with interest, but expect the govt to pass legislation the banker families want.
But the joke gets worse. These families don't even back their money with gold. They make trillions out of thin air, and expect tangible assets in return; resources, property; our fealty.
This country, under constitutional law, has the right to create its OWN money. We used to. A few times in our nations history, we have. Since 1913 all that financial sovereignty has passed.
Lock up every banking family for fleecing the human race, and you watch how fast we become a prosperous and successful species.- bobthebuilder25, on 03/21/2008, -3/+19That typo will probably be the cause of your burial :D
- pleiadianagenda, on 03/21/2008, -1/+8Yeah, a sad state of affairs........... ;)
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -13/+4No, he got buried for babbling like a rontard.
- dsmx, on 03/21/2008, -16/+4lol 1013, I'm going to go out on a limb here as I was never taught much american history, but america didn't exist in 1013.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -1/+8Ah, apparently you don't know the Secret History of the United States. This was a Roman outpost and has been the proving ground for the New Roman World Order (often shortened to New World Order for the sake of convenience). The Centurians can come out of hiding now...
- unjustend, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1I found one in my bushes just the other day, don't worry, I tased him bro.
- quakerorts, on 03/21/2008, -1/+1The Native Americans would disagree with you.
- dsmx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Yes because native americans called it america.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -1/+8Ah, apparently you don't know the Secret History of the United States. This was a Roman outpost and has been the proving ground for the New Roman World Order (often shortened to New World Order for the sake of convenience). The Centurians can come out of hiding now...
- keltin, on 03/21/2008, -3/+1310 or 19, it doan matter. Your comments are accurate, otherwise, and very correct in the acts and intent of the Federal Reserve. It would be very cathartic to line up those responsible and knock them over, letting the real US get back in charge of our own money.
- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -3/+1FK YES MY MAN! FK YES!
Their 'skynet' isn't up and running yet and now is nearing the only times we still have the chance to regain control.
How do we do it though? or have they already tripped and are beginning to fall?
regardless without awareness, everybody's doomed. DIGG IT!!
- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -3/+1FK YES MY MAN! FK YES!
- faithfreedom, on 03/21/2008, -3/+7Ron Paul is correct in all of economic issues. This man can see the big picture. Only stupid and ignorant people will vote for Barack and McCain.
- macman2k, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3The constitution does not give congress the power to devalue the property of others through counterfeiting. It makes only gold and silver as money. NO ONE should have access to a money printing press because by using it they can steal the wealth of the entire nation. If I do not have the power to print money then I cannot delegate it to my government and I cannot FORCE you to take my worthless "paper" in exchange for your valuable goods and services.
- AvangionQ, on 03/21/2008, -1/+3Your statement about locking up every banking family seems a bit extreme ... recouping the wealth fraudulently taken from the people should be adequate ...
- bobthebuilder25, on 03/21/2008, -3/+19That typo will probably be the cause of your burial :D
- diggafrica, on 03/21/2008, -16/+13This is very bad news. I blame bush
- chicofaraby, on 03/21/2008, -5/+14I blame the other guy who was in charge for the last 7 years.
- geddon, on 03/21/2008, -3/+4Everyone blames the current administration for the financial woes of the country.
- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4I blame Woodrow Wilson, he's the one who started us on this path to inevitable doom in 1913... Bush is only responsible for exponentially accelerating the collapse of the dollar.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3 I blame, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madams, Hamilton and all of the other founding fathers. Had they explicitly stated in the Constitution that congress and only Congress can coin the money of the people we may not be in this mess today. Hamilton is especially to blame as he was in the Rothschild's pocket and fought vehemently for a central bank and no doubt resisted any provisions towards the future formation of one.
- Hangly, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1There's plenty of blame to go around.
- eclectro, on 03/21/2008, -6/+31I'm not saying that we don't have problems with the dollar. But the summary speaks for itself. It was "last week* and investors are fickle. A week is an eternity in investing time. If an investor sees an opportunity, he will go after it. Since last week, gold has had a major correction, and commodities have taken a dive. I don't think that the problems are over, but saying that there is a systematic dumping might be inaccurate.
- Mier, on 03/21/2008, -2/+8don't know why you're getting dugg down for being an optimist. I for one hope you're right.
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -3/+7But master Paul says the Goldz standard will save us all!
- Mark7r0n, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4The Dollar has seen a one point rise since Mar. 17th. The markets are too finicky, too fickle right now to draw any long-term conclusions from any action. And I'm sorry, but the Dollar has declined against the Euro since the Euro was implemented. The value of a currency against another currency is a measure of faith in/strength of the economies that back them, relative to one another. This is nothing new. The failed sell off of T-bills was the result of the moves the Fed too to begin restoring the Dollar (the reason the Dollar has risen a point in recent days). Those Bills were not bought because foreign investors saw that the value of their purchase would be immediately eroded by a point hence foreigners didn't buy. More telling is not only that the Dollar has gained a point, but gold and commodities (safe havens from volatile currency markets) have all declined in the same time frame the Dollar rose. None of this happens in a vacuum, and mush of it happens with an eye to the short-term.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4 Ever hear of trends? The dollar has been sliding for a long long time. A little blip here and there upwards is more of a halt in the decline than it is a gain. It's astounding how a few good days on Wall Street can make people ignore the last 6 months.
- muckemuck, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1There's a lot of speculation that the drop in commodities was fabricated by the Fed.. http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4095.html and not a natural result of the market.
- lilricky, on 03/21/2008, -15/+33Anyone notice that all these "the dollar is worthless" stories are coming from the same 5 people?
- Beto0707, on 03/21/2008, -1/+9No... Care to name them?
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -14/+7Yep. its called gaming digg. They are nothing but rontards in disguise.
- ivandir, on 03/21/2008, -3/+10And I suppose you are an Obamatard?
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 03/21/2008, -1/+15Top Diggers are ruining Digg
- reed311, on 03/21/2008, -11/+9Yeah, they are former Ron Paul spambots. They can't get Ron Paul spam popular anymore, so they post doom and gloom economic stories and then flood the comments section with how the gold standard will save us and how the Federal Reserve is evil because it's private (all the while saying that privatizing everything else in existence would be a great idea.)
Like their other predictions, these ones can be safely ignored.- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Thanks for your insight Miss Cleo.
- macman2k, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Federal Reserve is a "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" government created organization. Without the government the federal reserve could not EXIST!
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -2/+12 I'm also concerned that only 5 brave people are worried about this state of affairs, you're right, the stories on our banking system should be much more widespread.
- Svamp, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4This is why we can't have nice things
- jebsilver, on 03/21/2008, -1/+7Sure. It shows me that 5 people finally woke up. Now it's your turn.
- MaikuSan, on 03/22/2008, -0/+15 users/780 diggs = 156 accounts per user?
- Hangly, on 03/22/2008, -0/+3What has that got to do with anything?
- keltin, on 03/21/2008, -4/+12It makes you wonder if this 'global contagion' has been spread to help facilitate the development of regional and global political structures, such as the North American union, the EU and groupings in other areas.
If people aren't confident in their own currency, and that their jobs have moved to some other area, doesn't it make sense that a regional v. national approach to an economic unit would be more acceptable to people? It would be pointed out to peole that even though the US doesn't allow drilling in our continental shelf, or Alaska or...many other areas, Mexico has lots of oil and they allow drilling in the Gulfs of California and Mexico, so let's merge with them as an economic unit"Of course we'll maintain sovereignty, but look how stable we'll become, having partners with lots of gas and oil (can include Canada on this too).
You can also point out that Mexico has some of the auto manufacturing plants that used to be in the US, as well as some of the manufacturies for clothes, shoes, furniture, etc. "Doesn't it make sense for us to merge with them as a unit so that our new currency - let's call it an Amero - will be much more stable than that rotten old dollar that we undermined until there was no worth left?"
Sorry if it sounds to conspiracy-theory to you-all, but the events of the last couple of years in the financial and political areas tend to tie together when you look at them as a whole and not little pieces of different parts.- pleiadianagenda, on 03/21/2008, -1/+9Well, you said it. "Sovereignty". That's the issue. And globalism can go two ways. Into one world dictatorship, or individual sovereignty. I prefer individual sovereignty. Sadly, most globalists want earth to be a corporate monopoly.
The only way globalism could ever work out for the masses is for the masses to take back the helm, to introduce honest govt that is for the people and by the people, and out of the hands of the corrupt govts that are plaguing this planet, including what America has sadly turned into.- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Then it wouldn't be globalism anymore. Globalism is like communism in that it will never work. It's designed not to work, at least not for us.
- pleiadianagenda, on 03/21/2008, -1/+9Well, you said it. "Sovereignty". That's the issue. And globalism can go two ways. Into one world dictatorship, or individual sovereignty. I prefer individual sovereignty. Sadly, most globalists want earth to be a corporate monopoly.
- Mier, on 03/21/2008, -3/+8Well if we go down then the whole world gets dragged with us. It'll be a fun ride to the bottom then we can all get back to work rebuilding a better economy. Hopefully we'll have some better rules in place to keep this from happening again or if we survive mostly intact we'll need some new rules and rope for the greedy bastards that started this slide.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3 We had rules this time. It was just over time, we(The public) decided politics bored us and we gave up our duty to it, and slowly - ever - so - slowly, rules were changed to allow them to do this. Each time they did something a group of people, a minority, would yell and scream and warn us all, but we shouted things like commie at them until they went away.
- synthpop, on 03/21/2008, -0/+6the world has been slowly and quietly decoupling itself from the dollar. it has to be done on tiptoes so as not to disturb the fragile house of cards. so basically when (not if) the dollar goes down its true that the world goes down as well, but other nations will have a quick recovery in comparison to a very long and painful recovery for the US. with American manufacturing almost non existent, what can the US sell to the world besides green paper with numbers on it?
- ToastedZergling, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1Food. If weather continues to be horrible, our country could hold back from the rest of the world the most precious of necessities. It's ***** up, but it'd probably work.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3 We had rules this time. It was just over time, we(The public) decided politics bored us and we gave up our duty to it, and slowly - ever - so - slowly, rules were changed to allow them to do this. Each time they did something a group of people, a minority, would yell and scream and warn us all, but we shouted things like commie at them until they went away.
- keltin, on 03/21/2008, -0/+8Let me see. If I had a few billion in dollars and had the chance to buy part of the 'newest' auction, would I? Not on your life. My money would go somewhere else that had a better rate of return and more 'oomph' behind it.
- breckinshire, on 03/21/2008, -2/+2Like neckties with piano keys printed on them.
- unjustend, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1close, but I prefer the keytar tie.
- breckinshire, on 03/21/2008, -2/+2Like neckties with piano keys printed on them.
- amightywind, on 03/21/2008, -5/+11What are they going to buy? US equities of course. Commodity prices are plummeting. The mortgage market is gone for years. The falling dollar has been a game of economic chicken between the US and its trading partners who run huge trade deficits. The falling dollar provides a windfall for the American consumer and squeezes importers. But with the US economy slowing, the commodity bubble is bursting and the dollar will rise. For the moment it looks like Bernanke is making the right moves.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+5EXACTLY. Since hedge funds need liquidity right now, they’ll be selling assets and equities at a discount, just to get cash. If anything deflation is on the horizon not inflation.
Both are bad btw. - RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Why wouldn't they just buy real estate and other tangible assets inside the United States? There are more things to spend your money on then financial paper.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+5EXACTLY. Since hedge funds need liquidity right now, they’ll be selling assets and equities at a discount, just to get cash. If anything deflation is on the horizon not inflation.
- Meekus, on 03/21/2008, -2/+14As long as we elect people who know nothing about the economy, this situation will get worse. The very annoying part for me, is that it doesn't need to be like this. It IS fixable. But the only people who know what to do are the same ones getting shunned.
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -11/+4Ron Paul doesnt know ***** about money, and couldnt run a ***** fruit stand.
- Tess101, on 03/21/2008, -1/+14Mike17032, you are wrong. Ron Paul has been telling America about this mess for over 30 years, do some research on Ron Paul instead of saying something you have no idea about. The man is a former Air Force flight surgeon, a long time doctor, and has been in Congress for several years, do the research, before you spout off again. Ron Paul truly makes sense for our Country, and still believes in the Constitution of the United States, by the way, have you ever read it yourself? Probably not.
- reed311, on 03/21/2008, -8/+1Yes, 30 years. What if I told you every day for 30 years that something was going to happen and it never did? Would you say I had a good track record at predicting things?
- kfed2, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Nonsense argument. Paul has been saying that America has been heading for X bad situation for 30 years. He never said when the hyper inflation event would occur, only that if our course was not changed, it would inevitably occur at some point in the future.
To answer your question, I would say he has a good track record of predicting this. Not many people can call an economic situation 30 years in advance.
- kfed2, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Nonsense argument. Paul has been saying that America has been heading for X bad situation for 30 years. He never said when the hyper inflation event would occur, only that if our course was not changed, it would inevitably occur at some point in the future.
- kfed2, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3EVERY fiat currency collapses within 100 years, and generally much faster. The collapse brings down the entire economy with it. It is not a recession or depression, it is a total collapse. There is no exception in all of history.
Ron Paul's predictions are not difficult to deduce, it is just an example of a failed attempt happening over and over again. The people who do not believe this are either uninformed, or believe that the USA is somehow exempt from economic forces. I bet it is #2 because Americans are known for being arrogant, and are likely to think they are somehow special.
- reed311, on 03/21/2008, -8/+1Yes, 30 years. What if I told you every day for 30 years that something was going to happen and it never did? Would you say I had a good track record at predicting things?
- Tess101, on 03/21/2008, -1/+14Mike17032, you are wrong. Ron Paul has been telling America about this mess for over 30 years, do some research on Ron Paul instead of saying something you have no idea about. The man is a former Air Force flight surgeon, a long time doctor, and has been in Congress for several years, do the research, before you spout off again. Ron Paul truly makes sense for our Country, and still believes in the Constitution of the United States, by the way, have you ever read it yourself? Probably not.
- Buavesy, on 03/21/2008, -1/+8Very true. Republican or Democrat it doesn't matter. McCain, who has no clue about economics, wants to stay in Iraq which means funding for the war continues. Obama and Hillary, who wish to continue this welfare state of ours, want to pull out of Iraq, bit they want Universal Health Care for the US. Until we stop our futile spending this is problem is only going to get worse. I would say Ron Paul is the only candidate with some sense that government spending needs to be cut significantly. However, as you said this is extremely annoying because the media shows only whom they wish to elect.
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -11/+4Ron Paul doesnt know ***** about money, and couldnt run a ***** fruit stand.
- hokie47, on 03/21/2008, -4/+12For the last time we are better for going off the gold standard. We should not run our economy like some War Craft game where your worth is the amount of gold you can mine. What we should do is only be allowed to run a deficit budget in time of a real war declared by congress. Also, we need to stop with the bail outs.
- Jesterman81, on 03/21/2008, -3/+1Dugg for the warcraft comment!!!
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -2/+9A gold standard is unsustainable. Were we on a gold stand the economy would be face with crippling deflation which would stop the economy cold.
Deflation is ALWAYS worse the inflation, since people will but off buying today what will be cheaper tomorrow.- Beto0707, on 03/21/2008, -3/+3Wouldn't "putting off buying what will be cheaper tomorrow" be better than not being able to afford housing, food, and transportation? Then I basically spend no money in the throws of hyper-inflation.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Sure, but whatever you can afford you will buy today, because it will be more expensive tomorrow.
At either extreme, both inflation and deflation are devastating, but deflation largely favors the rich and punishes the poor. The poor benefit most from robust economic growth, which requires robust monetary growth.
Sorry, it seems you’ve found yourself in an imperfect universe. There is no perfect monetary policy, we can only hope and strive for an optimal one.
- Number23, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Sure, but whatever you can afford you will buy today, because it will be more expensive tomorrow.
- Beto0707, on 03/21/2008, -3/+3Wouldn't "putting off buying what will be cheaper tomorrow" be better than not being able to afford housing, food, and transportation? Then I basically spend no money in the throws of hyper-inflation.
- sponeil, on 03/21/2008, -0/+6I agree with some of your comments, but not this one:
"What we should do is only be allowed to run a deficit budget in time of a real war declared by congress."
Bush/Cheney got Congress to declare a "War on Terror". Like the "War on Drugs", it will never be over, and it gives Bush permanent wartime powers and a blank check for deficit spending. That was how he got around the balanced budget amendment, and several other things that were in his way.- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4Gee that sounds "criminal".
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2you said something bad about the great leader. You are no longer patriotic, please report to brain cleaning at once.
- hokie47, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Not that there is much of a difference now days but we declared authorized military engagements in Iraq not a formal declaration like in WW2.
- Waiting2awake, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4Gee that sounds "criminal".
- muckemuck, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1umm.. it's not so much the gold standard that's wrecking our economy - it's that a private corporation run by the banks has been slowly running our economy into the ground. Go watch this.. http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.12.%20MoneyMa ...
- ColonelJessup, on 03/21/2008, -12/+20Here we go again with the Digg.com economic professors...................................
- geddon, on 03/21/2008, -0/+5Are you training for the CUT+PASTE Olympics?
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3The scary thing is that when you read back, the Digg economic proffs were saying all this would happen a year ago, while the 'real' economists said everything was great.
Now thats scary.- RationalXubrnce, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1 I wish I could digg you ten times for that!
- spiritditch, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Your mom is a digg.com economic professor.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -6/+7It's not a lack of confidence. It's a coordinated attack. We'll get through it.
- jsmith39, on 03/21/2008, -4/+5It's a coordinated attack? By whom? Who are the dastardly bastards who so brazenly loaned us money we shouldn't have borrowed and intelligently decided they didn't wish to buy any more of our debt when we borrowed too much. Those bastards! Now I have to look in the mirror for a culprit
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -2/+9Economic war is far more appealing to some nations than military war. When it was a convenient investment the dollar was just another portable currency. But we've been warned by a number of scholars over the years that a large-scale currency dump when we're at our weakest would not only make sense for those foreign investors, but it would also be a way to attack and weaken the United States. These nations have been waiting for their opportunity for a few years now and this bailout was the perfect time. Allies would be making a point of how they're holding on to those investments to help America through a rough patch, but we don't have any allies. Hopefully this will help people understand that.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -1/+1Er.....this has nothing to do with attack, its more to do with defense. People from around the world have a lot of money, they invest that money to make more money. At the moment the US won't make them as much money as other places so they are moving it. They are defending their ability to make money. they couldn't give a ***** what happens to the US, all they care about is the money.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1The governments who are selling off the bulk of these notes right now aren't being run by toddlers. They know that selling low isn't sound economic sense and they aren't worried that the U.S. will go out of business and they'll lose everything. They're doing this right now with malicious intent.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -1/+1Er.....this has nothing to do with attack, its more to do with defense. People from around the world have a lot of money, they invest that money to make more money. At the moment the US won't make them as much money as other places so they are moving it. They are defending their ability to make money. they couldn't give a ***** what happens to the US, all they care about is the money.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -2/+9Economic war is far more appealing to some nations than military war. When it was a convenient investment the dollar was just another portable currency. But we've been warned by a number of scholars over the years that a large-scale currency dump when we're at our weakest would not only make sense for those foreign investors, but it would also be a way to attack and weaken the United States. These nations have been waiting for their opportunity for a few years now and this bailout was the perfect time. Allies would be making a point of how they're holding on to those investments to help America through a rough patch, but we don't have any allies. Hopefully this will help people understand that.
- BruceDude, on 03/21/2008, -2/+1Attack by who? Why the hell would they attack America economically?
That's like trying to attack the bank. When the bank breaks down, you lose a huge chunk of your money.
Your conspiracy theory makes no sense. Investors never want to lose money.- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -1/+1Look who's selling the notes. It's cheaper to lose money selling off Treasury notes at a time when it will hurt the United States than it is to engage in military hostilities with the United States. Either way inflicts significant harm on an enemy, but this way there's no overt gesture that can be shown on television and denounced like troops crossing a river. We're watching our enemies at work right now.
- BruceDude, on 03/25/2008, -1/+1In this case the enemies are internal. The greedy bastards at the banks.
- RRJackson, on 03/21/2008, -1/+1Look who's selling the notes. It's cheaper to lose money selling off Treasury notes at a time when it will hurt the United States than it is to engage in military hostilities with the United States. Either way inflicts significant harm on an enemy, but this way there's no overt gesture that can be shown on television and denounced like troops crossing a river. We're watching our enemies at work right now.
- jsmith39, on 03/21/2008, -4/+5It's a coordinated attack? By whom? Who are the dastardly bastards who so brazenly loaned us money we shouldn't have borrowed and intelligently decided they didn't wish to buy any more of our debt when we borrowed too much. Those bastards! Now I have to look in the mirror for a culprit
- jsmith39, on 03/21/2008, -7/+18Thank you King George for accomplishing in a few short years what our enemies could have never accomplished on thier own.
- andergriff, on 03/21/2008, -7/+4Stop digging two-day-old news.
- mavere, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2He's getting dugged down, but 2 days old financial news is really old when the market is this chaotic.
- forceeffect, on 03/21/2008, -6/+3It just seems that since Bush came into office, everything keeps progressively going down, down, down the drain. Random thought: is it possible for a presidential administration to do such a bad job, that you could call it treason for that reason alone? That'd be a pretty powerful motivator to get some amazing administrations...
- laserblazer, on 03/21/2008, -2/+9A hyperinflationary economy is the inevitable result of the plundering that America has suffered. History is replete with examples of this, right up to modern times. By the time this is all over, you won't be able to buy a wheelbarrow to hold the cash you'd need to buy a wheelbarrow.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3 Joseph and his brothers debased the currency of Egypt when they gained control of the government during the time of Pharaoh. You can read about it in genesis in the Joseph and coat of many colors story. After Josephs family and tribe gained the positions of government, "The money failed" and the people were impoverished. The scam the Federal Reserve is based on is at the very least 3000 years years old.
- mike17032, on 03/21/2008, -13/+8More gold standard/rontard spam gamed to the homepage by the same ***** idiots. Time to bury this ***** too.
- ivandir, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Holly ***** dude you just posted the same thing as a reply to lilricky?
"Yep. its called gaming digg. They are nothing but rontards in disguise"
STOP SPAMMING!- kaelyiesta, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Just ignore him. He has trolled each and every financial crisis article I've read, and many other articles as well. Bury him and forget about him.
- ivandir, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4Holly ***** dude you just posted the same thing as a reply to lilricky?
- SzaszMan, on 03/21/2008, -0/+8There's a really simple reason why Washington seems to be almost deliberately choosing to inflate the US currency - we have staggering federal debt. Inflation, of course, is an easy way to decrease one's debt without having to pay anything back. Unfortunately, everyone else gets economically ***** in the process, but that's not a concern of the people who are sending the dollar downhill.
- olenick, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3I agree and don't think people realize what's going on. Purposefully adding inflation not only decreases the value of the US debt, but also accelerates the "recovery" of the housing market because the bubble prices will eventually conform to historical earnings to house price ratios. So we're in for a period of inflation; maybe even hyper-inflation, just in time for all those baby-boomers to begin retiring.
- trispear, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1No, not everyone gets ***** -- just those holding lots of dollars or those living paycheck to paycheck -- the poor to middleclass. The rich who hold real-world assets won't have it as bad (but it's no teaparty for them either).
Such was the case in Germany in the 20s and Mexico in the 80s.- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -2/+2 Really the money was all stolen from us years ago, the current inflation is just the time delayed result of that theft. Sure there will be all sorts of fancy charts and complicated explanations of why this happened but the bottom line is that our system was designed to sack the wealth of the people through trickery and now we are seeing the result, just like they did in 1929.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Your wrong, in part.
the poor have huge debts. High inflation makes those debts much small in real terms. This could result in the poor being able to get out of debt.- Jlaugh, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Only if there's paying jobs for them to have. What happened in the 20's in germany led to some very bad things.
- GaryGlaucon, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4This is going to go really bad, and the public will act stunned because of the way the game is constructed. Ask Joe citizen about the Fed., derivatives, or currency and he doesn't know squat except that money buys stuff. The current market is no better than Vegas, but less regulated. Poor suckers who have bought into the 401-K nonsense. The bankers took their cut when it was put into the system and continue to take their cut even while contributors are loosing their shirts. What a system!
- ProZachJ, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4It not that econmomic planning doesn't work...its just that no-body understands how the tools of economic planning effect the economy in the long term. Its like trying to butter your toast with a backhoe. I would hate to be Mr. Bernake, the way I see it he gets to choose...deflation for the American economy or hyperinflation for the USD and I am sure he just LOVES Greenspan running all over the gulf telling OPEC to drop the dollar. Hold on to your ankles (and wallets) folks the fed is comming! And they are devalueing your currency.
- damats, on 03/21/2008, -2/+1I rarely post but lets be realistic. Why were people buying bonds in previous weeks at a higher percentage but this week it dropped. Makes very little sense considering the dollar seems to be gaining in value and the Fed appears to alert to increasing the dollar's strengh to avoid inflation. Perhaps its because this week it was just lower due to investors being bearish. Also why would these nations suddenly decide to screw the US? Europe, Asia, and the Middle East all have a huge stake in the US economy. Right now China has huge inflation issues and the EU socialism has run up their national debts to higher ratios than the US (debt/gdp).
Let's stop taking extreme views and look at the whole picture. Yes our monetary policy for the last 8 years hasn't been the best. And yes its mostly Bush's spending that's contributed to this issue. But, as the markets reached new lows last week for the year it was a good time to capitalize on the deals. Especially since commercial lending is still at a high, liquidity is better, and the Fed has ensured that there will be no more runs on the investment banks. I'd rather invest now because if its going to be as bad as you say it is, theres really no reason to hold onto you rmoney because regardless of where you put it, itll be worthless next year. - rsvguy, on 03/21/2008, -5/+4I'm always amazed by the number of retards spewing their semi-literate anti-jewish rants about how the Rothschilds run the world. Grow up idiots!
The current crisis is a result of greed by your banks, loaning money to people they knew could not pay it back. Things are not helped by the fact the GWB has been spending the US reserves fighting an unwinable war.
Your chickens are coming home to roost.- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4 Actually the current crisis is the result of having our banks run by the Rothschild's and the other banking families. No matter how much this fact offends your sensibilities or how many idiots also believe it that makes it no less true. And yes many of those families are Jewish but ironically you seem to be the first person in this entire thread to bring that up.
- kazamx, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Yup no one on the whole thread until he did
- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -0/+0rsvguy you're so blind keep living like a sheep plz kthxu
- riverside71, on 03/21/2008, -1/+3The Zionists do run the banks.. so if these banks systematically allow bad loans then yes, its their responsibility.. Bear Sterns isn't owned by stupid goyims .. the bank was the front for the Zionist.. how else would you explain the conveninent bail out by the Feds.. If you let economics work you'd allow bad decisions to be penalized.. Bear Sterns is above those laws.. all Zionists are..
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+4 Actually the current crisis is the result of having our banks run by the Rothschild's and the other banking families. No matter how much this fact offends your sensibilities or how many idiots also believe it that makes it no less true. And yes many of those families are Jewish but ironically you seem to be the first person in this entire thread to bring that up.
- phogasmic, on 03/21/2008, -1/+2Another weekend crisis!
- riverside71, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1sure phogasmic.. come Monday the dollar would be worth more once again and oil would be cheaper and milk and honey will flow again..
- askjeffro, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3Well, if foreign investors really are dumping their treasury notes, American's are buying them up like mad, the ten year note is cruising at extreme low % yield. You'd expect this in a recession period for sure, but not at these levels if foreign investors really are dumping their bonds.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5ETNX&t=3m- flannelback, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1One of the best things we could do is buy our debt back. Of course, the very best thing would be to start
producing and stop buying from other countries that still have working factories.
- flannelback, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1One of the best things we could do is buy our debt back. Of course, the very best thing would be to start
- SickMonkey, on 03/21/2008, -2/+4This is not all bad news. Foreign investors may be dumping US paper and dollars, but they'll be increasingly investing capital and creating new jobs here because it we'll become cheaper and cheaper to do business in the US than abroad.
A strong currency is not necessarily always a good thing. It has led to huge trade deficits, job exports and capital leaving the country, making it very difficult, if not impossible, for a country to compete in a global economy. The point is, you can't always have your cake and eat it too.- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Then how come when the currency was strong the country was in so much better shape all around? I'm always amazed by the lengths people will go to believe that a weak dollar is to our advantage when it should be obvious nothing could be further from the truth.
- riverside71, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3what exactly does the US produce except weapons and entertainment that anyone would invest in?
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -1/+15 I love this quote.
"We may be close to the point where the uglier consequences of benign neglect towards the currency are revealed."
That makes it sound like this was all an accident and not an intentional plundering of a country by malicious and greedy bankers.- jaymzdean, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2bingo.
- empirefalling, on 03/21/2008, -9/+4Your country and it's economic system is worthless. You are rapidly moving into a depression which will rival that of the depression of the 1930's. Your military is defeated and can not effectively function. You are ignored and mocked by most of the World Body. What will you do?
- dcshiderly, on 03/21/2008, -2/+2Hahahaha. You have zero idea about what you speak. You don't realize the whole point of a fiat currency. You don't realize that nothing has changed, only the abstraction we use to represent value. The value is still there. The engines of production are still there. The causes of the Great Depression do not exist anymore. They have been done away with.
Sure, things will get weird. All the banks heavily leveraged into mortgages will fall precipitously. And we should let them. The FDIC has a responsibility to the clients of those failing banks, and not to the banks themselves. Let them fail, cover the customers, and imprison those that failed their fiduciary responsibility by committing mortgage fraud.- riverside71, on 03/21/2008, -1/+2you do live in fantasy land don't you? did Bear Sterns get penalized for their reckless buying of worthless loans or did the shareholders get the beating?
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -1/+4 What do you mean the value is still there? There are dollars in my bank account, I get paid in dollars and now they are not buying as much as they used to so please explain to me how they are holding their value.
- vault, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1You're an alarmist retard.
- dcshiderly, on 03/21/2008, -2/+2Hahahaha. You have zero idea about what you speak. You don't realize the whole point of a fiat currency. You don't realize that nothing has changed, only the abstraction we use to represent value. The value is still there. The engines of production are still there. The causes of the Great Depression do not exist anymore. They have been done away with.
- yellowsnowcone, on 03/21/2008, -1/+3Fear = Profit
- bentman78, on 03/21/2008, -3/+4To bad everyone here keeps talking about how we should be on gold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/business/20cnd-c ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/mar/21/min ...
http://business.theage.com.au/gold-falls-to-bigges ...
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Markets/Commod ...
Yep....it's a good thing our policies aren't based off of people listening to Digg arm-chair economists.....- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -1/+0no ***** but it shouldn't be on fiat currency either; we need a currency which gives value and worth to what individuals contribute; a currency which enables equal opportunity for all.
- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Their only argument is that a strictly gold standard won't work. What is funny, is that nobody is arguing for a strict gold standard, but still it is used as the reasoning as to why we should keep a fiat standard.
We have the right to coin our own honest money based off of gold and silver, the authority was granted to Congress. This could be introduced as a competing currency against the fiat dollar. You can't inflate a currency that is based off of a finite commodity.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
- Pssdoff, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Their only argument is that a strictly gold standard won't work. What is funny, is that nobody is arguing for a strict gold standard, but still it is used as the reasoning as to why we should keep a fiat standard.
- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -1/+0no ***** but it shouldn't be on fiat currency either; we need a currency which gives value and worth to what individuals contribute; a currency which enables equal opportunity for all.
- damnedifyoudo, on 03/21/2008, -1/+0FK YES MY MAN! FK YES!
Their 'skynet' isn't up and running yet and now is nearing the only times we still have the chance to regain control.
How do we do it though? or have they already tripped and are beginning to fall?
regardless without awareness, everybody's doomed. DIGG IT!! - flannelback, on 03/21/2008, -0/+9Maybe it seems a bit too simple, but... We can't create national wealth by giving each other brain surgery or doing the laundry. Wealth comes from producing things. Otherwise, your wealth goes to people who do produce things. When the factories close, we get poorer, regardless of what the multinationals tell us.
- tgolferman, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1You're right. Ross Perot tried to stop it against Clinton who signed NAFTA and China MFN.
- pifthemighty, on 03/21/2008, -1/+3Anyone notice the URL of this "...xml=/money/2008/03/17/ccview117.xml#*****"specifically the "we are *****" part? wow. go UK.
- bsmang, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1Now I did. But I seriously doubt it was part of anything on the site -- i.e. it was added by the poster or by someone else linking to it originally.
- bsmang, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Reading the article made me think of this recent digg post:
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/The_World_s_Weirdest_Eng ...
(Which, needless to say, was quite scary.) - briLo, on 03/21/2008, -2/+5Time to become self sufficient!!!!!! As a country the best shot Americans have is keeping everything in house. ***** the big corporations and the billion dollar profits, ***** off-shoring, ***** the Chinese, ***** Putin, ***** Bush, ***** Hillary, ***** the Middle East, ***** the Tsunami victims, ***** the Iraqis', ***** the Isreal/Palenstine conflict and their inability to do anything remotely positive, ***** Hugo Chavez, ***** Hitler, ***** donating money for good causes and relief aid, ***** all of Africa and their constant state of conflict, ***** Mogadishu, ***** North Korea.......***** em all!!
***** me that felt kinda good!!!- mrwhitethc, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1AMERICA.... ***** YEAH!!
- siktath, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3You morons might want to check the flow of funds. It paints a different story. Foreigners bought Treasuries en masse last quarter.
- tgolferman, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1Oh be nice siktath. Did you check quarter over quarter? Why should foreigners buy our treasuries? They pay what 3 percent? With the dollars value declining like it has recently I would want an interest rate of about 300 percent to offset the inflation. Take that siktath. And I didn't have to call you a name to turn the tables on you. We're here to discuss the news and debate different sides of an issue.
- spinladen, on 03/21/2008, -2/+4There can not be a new beginning of a new era of true economic equality between all classes without the destruction and obliteration of the current system set up by greedy banking families that have made livings selling fiat money for ages.
To every end, there is a beginning.
Burn baby Burn!- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+1 And guess who created and funded your precious Marxism? Why it was those same bankers of course.
- oldgal, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3I am coming to the belief that even the experts don't have a clue how the economy currently works or what to do about it. I've done a lot of searching and can find no articles, or discussions that encompass mortgage crisis, credit crisis, weak dollar, foreign investment, national debt, trade deficit, interest rates, deregulation, globalization, trickle down, etc. I think our economic models are obsolete, and/or have been "gamed". I think those that would have us go back to the gold standard have not a clue how to do it nor the ramifications if they could - they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. I think there will be arguments for the next 50 years about the right thing to have done right now. Having said that, my guess is hopping on board the "green" movement, as well as other technological opportunities, will create the jobs and economy to eventually pull us out of it. Creating sensible regulation will determine how long it takes and how long it lasts.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+3 Hoping on board the green movement will help pull us out, HAHAHAHAHA you have to be kidding. It's the same rotten establishment pushing the global warming mythos and silencing all debate. Al Gore himself is intimately connected to the Federal Reserve families. The green craze will cost us, not enrich us. It will however help India and China who will be exempted from the regulations. The result will be a further shift of Western production to ports afar.
- pdurod, on 03/21/2008, -1/+2I am not an economist but could someone explain why precious metals are dropping like a rock? And the dollar is getting stronger.
http://www.monex.com/- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2 Probably the plunge protection team doing their best to sell metal like crazy in an effort to keep it from taking off. The precious metals markets have been heavily manipulated for years. When they can no longer be controlled you are going to see them take off like rockets.
- tgolferman, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1RationalXubrnce hit it on the head. Price manipulation. Many of our economists have been telling us that we're in a minor downturn and that it won't last, yet the FED has not taken steps comparable to those taken recently since "The Great Depression". How does the stock market go up when you have all this trouble and more on the horizon? Or, is there a new stock pricing model that celebrates inflation and remedies for our economic troubles that are inflationary? Again, I say manipulation.
- choppergirl, on 03/21/2008, -1/+5If the American citizens who don't have the balls won't overthrow their corrupt government, the rest of the world... by dumping its worthless fraudulent currency wholesale. I'm going to start doing my part and not accepting dollars for payment for anything. If someone wants to buy something from me, they have to pay in barter, or I'll take Euros or even yen. Cause I know in a year they will still be what they are worth today, even more, whereas any US dollars anybody gives me probably will crash to near zero.
I see the gas prices going up, and realize, its not gas that is becoming more scarce, its the fact that the value of the dollar is plummeting, which is why its prices and the prices of everything else are going up.- kfed2, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2You are smart.
EVERY fiat currency collapses within 100 years, and generally much faster. The collapse brings down the entire economy with it. It is not a recession or depression, it is a total collapse. There is no exception in all of history.
It is just an example of a failed attempt at makinf FIAT money work happening over and over again. The people who do not believe this are either uninformed, or believe that the USA is somehow exempt from economic forces. I bet it is #2 because Americans are known for being arrogant, and are likely to think they are somehow special.
I opened a foreign online account years ago, and have made quite a few bucks in profit from the fall of the dollar, or more like I have missed the demise of the dollar and my money has retained it's value.
- kfed2, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2You are smart.
- RationalXubrnce, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2Where do you live Choppergirl?
- AvangionQ, on 03/21/2008, -0/+2[REPEAT POST] The end result of unregulated unrestricted money printing by the semi-private corporation known as the Federal Reserve Bank has caused the devaluing of our dollar through inflation ... most reprehensible is the poor planning by the Federal Reserve Bank following the 1979 OPEC decision to have all petroleum transactions be made in US Dollars ... however, I blame the 1913 Federal Reserve Act which created the fiat money system to begin with -- we need to face up to the upcoming recession and deal with its repercussions before the recession escalates into a depression -- or worse, another aggressive war over economic gain ...
- Hangly, on 03/22/2008, -0/+4Whatever guys. Everything bad thing the gold standard Ron Paul loonies predicted would happen is happening. You can bitch and sidetrack the discussion all you want but you won't change reality.
- Bovorik, on 03/22/2008, -0/+0It's called the boom-bust cycle (surely something most you lot picked up at school or uni) fellas. The USD's having a bad time of it and we're rolling into a recession - nothing new at all (e.g. savings and loan crisis).
- avengingturnip, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1Wrong. In what other historical boom-bust cycle did the value of the dollar drop like a rock? You act like this is normal. Since the Bretton Woods system collapsed the dollar has been the international reserve currency. Now, the international players are dumping the dollar. This is unprecedented. Well not entirely unprecedented, as the old Colonial got dumped by everybody too but then people were free to adopt a stable currency, the Spanish Dollar.
- Bovorik, on 05/06/2008, -0/+0Well we're seeing a comeback, of sorts, for the dollar at the moment. The dollar's had a nosedive, no doubt, but just 'cos it seems like the world's moving at a faster pace, doesn't mean that the impact of stuff like this is greater than what's gone on in the past. Every major currency has had it's slumps over the decades (the Euro started off a damp squid, don't forget).
- avengingturnip, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1Wrong. In what other historical boom-bust cycle did the value of the dollar drop like a rock? You act like this is normal. Since the Bretton Woods system collapsed the dollar has been the international reserve currency. Now, the international players are dumping the dollar. This is unprecedented. Well not entirely unprecedented, as the old Colonial got dumped by everybody too but then people were free to adopt a stable currency, the Spanish Dollar.
- tgolferman, on 03/22/2008, -0/+1Give me a reason why any investor would purchase T-Bills or T-Bonds at around 3% when the dollar is in free fall. The mis-management of our economy by the Bush Administration at least can be defined as negligent, but perhaps a better description would be to say they have committed treason.
- tamerrashdan, on 03/23/2008, -0/+1It's really sad how much damage one stupid Bush can do to a great country
- Xpedient, on 03/23/2008, -0/+0The glut of bad mortgages and the banking industry spawn of subprime lending may be rooted in the failure of property tax to support governments operations. Excessive high property taxes regionally and locally created so much tension between those financing schools etc. and various civil rights cases for equitable funding may have led to governments quietly encouraging the approval of mortgages to economically deprived sectors to obtain a cash flow of property taxes. A national sales tax in exchange for the end of property tax would have been a solution instead of handing us this collapse. Renters with kids in school get a free ride all the way. While the senior citizens with no kids are forced out of their homes because they can not pay property tax on retirement pensions. Some regions are experiencing an exodus of retired populations and crumbling infrastructure adds to the financial burden of simply maintaining schools etc. I think government wanted to ignore this problem from day one because they thought they would benefit from the property taxes collected. When failure to diagnose an economic problem occurs this is the result.
- ToastedZergling, on 03/27/2008, -0/+1Was anyone else terrified of the comments on the website itself?
- fastreal, on 03/31/2008, -0/+0And look how much pain is out there! http://auctions.fastrealestate.net
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