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End the out-of-date engagement ring tradition NOW

slate.com — It may seem curious that feminism has made inroads on many retrograde customs—name-changing, for example—but not on the practice of giving engagement rings.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jun 12, 2007

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  • canewediggit, on 10/11/2007, -18/+268ladies, sit down, i want to tell you something and you might not like it. but it is the truth. are you ready?

    if you _need_ a diamond to marry a man, you are a whore.
  • whataboutdave, on 10/11/2007, -22/+186Giver her a shiny new DVD of "Blood Diamond" instead. If she complains, she's probably not worth marrying.
  • timo1023, on 10/11/2007, -6/+146Nothing says I love you like a superficial, overvalued rock, clawed from the bowels of the Earth by African slave labor.
  • MaynardJK, on 10/11/2007, -5/+119My favorite issue with engagement rings is the contempt that most women show toward lab grown diamonds. They look just as good or better and for half the cost of "real" diamonds. It just shows that the "symbol of commitment" is a load of horse *****. It is all about the dollars.
  • Rikkochet, on 10/11/2007, -5/+83@rosefu: you're missing his emphasis on "need".

    Yep, they're nice. They're shiny. A neat tradition. If you flat out refuse to marry a man unless he buys you a diamond.. Er, well, you *are* basically selling yourself then, aren't you? :)
  • Anrkist, on 10/11/2007, -6/+74I think it has more to do with how hard and how much pain little African children go through to get said Diamonds.
  • Samsong, on 10/11/2007, -10/+62Or a burned copy with an almost illegible title scratched onto it with a Sharpie.
  • stickyfeet17, on 10/11/2007, -12/+63I support this notion merely on the basis thats it save me so much money
  • bewareofmoose, on 10/11/2007, -10/+60@ the description:

    The reason is obvious. Feminism isn't about equality anymore; it's about advantage. The real pioneers of women's rights would be ashamed to see how the so-called feminists act these days. Taking a man's last name is oppression, but making the man spend more money for a ring is just desserts.
  • canewediggit, on 10/11/2007, -4/+51rose- since you don't _need_ a diamond, i was not calling you a whore. that statement was for women that must have a diamond in order to get married. you may call it 'brainwashed by advertising', i call it 'request for payment.' i'll happily buy a woman that doesn't need a diamond a diamond (as satanael points out), but if she would refuse marriage on the basis of no diamond, i'll drop her and take the next flight to vegas.

    edit- rikkochet beat me to it
  • brundlefly76, on 10/11/2007, -8/+55Make no doubt about it - when it comes to womens liberation, they are fighting for perks that were exclusive to men, while keeping the perks which are exclusive to women.




  • Salgat, on 10/11/2007, -5/+51I hate it when women fall for the idea that diamonds are really worth all that money.
  • rosefu, on 10/11/2007, -8/+54"If any of your diggers actually find someone that can stand to be with you (and your RPGs), buy her the largest ring you can afford."

    I'm with someone that got me into RPGs. Though, he only reads Digg, not post on it...

    I'm fine with a non-expensive ring. Saving up for the down payment on a house is much smarter.
  • beervolcano, on 10/11/2007, -1/+37I have a lab grown diamond...Its a 1 ct asscher cut and I bought it myself much later into my marriage. when my husband and I got engaged we exchanged sterling silver commitment bands that we wore until the day we got married.

    My good friend took some gemology courses a few years ago. Diamonds are NOT rare on this planet. They occur about as often as aquamarines.. Its just a very well controlled market.

    I would never pay for a natural diamond... Its a ROCK that happens to sparkle when its cut correctly...But its still just that..a rock.
  • wilf_brim, on 10/11/2007, -5/+39OK, I've been down this road a couple of times, so here is what I've learned the hard way.

    Agree completely with Slate that this is a completely out of date custom that needs to go. If your gf insists on a very expensive ring, run, do not walk, to the nearest exit. All she wants is to get married. You just happen to be the schumck who was around when she decided to stop whoring around (ok, that's a bit harsh, but I'm leaving it in). Since there is a good chance your gf makes as much (maybe more) than you do, it shouldn't be a slam dunk. If you are going to get her a ring, she should get you something else.

    Also, expensive weddings. Not worth it. The best weddings I have been at were the cheapest.
  • fasda, on 10/11/2007, -1/+33You know a diamond isn't really forever if you look up the delta H of formation its 1.896 KJ/mol so it has to decay down to graphite sooner or later....
  • iamshades, on 10/11/2007, -2/+31What cane is saying is, that if your woman wants/needs a diamond before she can marry you, then she is not worth it.

    For example, if you ask your lady to marry you, and you whip out a ring carved from an extremely large pearl that you found when you went diving in the ocean and she exclaims "What the hell is that??" or the rather, then she is not worth your time or money.

    If your lady doesn't even need to see or ask about a ring when you ask her to marry you, then she is fully worth it and is only pure. Then you can buy her a nice big (lab grown?) diamond ring, and not regret it.


    It's not that we want to, it's that we have to. Really analyze the girl before you make a commitment.
  • realyst, on 10/11/2007, -0/+28It's called a husband.
  • EntropyMan, on 10/11/2007, -12/+40DeBeers makes money off conflict and non-conflict diamonds as far as I can tell -- they just make more on conflict diamonds, since they can now charge a higher markup for the "organic food" of the diamond industry.
  • cawpin, on 10/11/2007, -8/+35"And not all diamonds are from DeBeers anyway."

    Um, yes, they are. They buy out or just plain extort any other people who try to get into the business.
  • xrisnothing, on 10/11/2007, -5/+32I doubt the inverse relationship exists. Although I'd like it to, the lower the price of the diamond, the lower the budget is of the purchaser. Financial unrest is a better predictor of failed marriages than being a spoiled *****. So...if one is shallow enough to want a symbol of commitment, then it could be said that you're..well shallow no matter what the price of it is.

    I personally am on the fence about the tradition of buying diamond engagement rings. On one hand, if you can't afford to buy a diamond ring, you shouldn't even be getting married. On the other, diamond rings are just *****.
  • rosefu, on 10/11/2007, -12/+39@Rikkochet
    I don't need it at all. In fact, I'd much rather the tradition didn't exist, because I hate wearing extraneous things (including jewelry and makeup; I do put on the engagement ring when I go outside though). I never wore *any* jewelry before I met him, and he was the one who insisted on buying me the ring.

    The psychology of this social tradition works both ways. My guy (who is not Asian and doesn't have my super parsimonious instincts) needed to get me the ring to signify that we were indeed engaged, and he also wanted to spend way more than I was willing to spend. I had to talk him down on it, and he was uncomfortable with it for a long time. I have no problem with it, but it's as much as a female issue as it is a male issue. To say that society puts no pressure on men would be flat out false.

    Stating that women are "whores" for wanting diamond rings is just another reflection of how easily this society tolerates misogyny. I don't want to throw any stones though, because the culture I came from abandons female babies.
  • LessThan3, on 10/11/2007, -3/+28My fiancee got me a beautiful ring that had a moonstone in it instead of a diamond. I think they are much prettier than diamonds anyway (and a whole lot more affordable)

    It had nothing to do with me being greedy or a whore. Its a nice reminder of him while he is away (military), it keeps other guys away, and makes a nice talking point when someone notices it.
  • realyst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+26I consider myself plenty chivalrous. I don't consider a diamond ring chivalrous. I consider it shallow.

    The act of getting down on one knee and proposing, that's chivalrous.

    The act of giving a ring even, that's chivalrous.

    What's hollow and callous is the judging of men based on an artificially high price point for a rock. Especially in light of a troubled economy and an age where men are constantly belittled as being disrespectful(I know some are, but many woman certainly aren't ladylike[don't get me wrong, I prefer tomboys]).

    I should be able to betroth a lady with a fine act of romance and a beautiful symbolism. A receipt shouldn't be in the equation.
  • xrisnothing, on 10/11/2007, -3/+26There are laws about gifts in contemplation of marriage, ie engagement rings. In some States, the woman would have to give the ring back.
  • Niten, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23beervolcano: "My good friend took some gemology courses a few years ago. Diamonds are NOT rare on this planet. They occur about as often as aquamarines.. Its just a very well controlled market."

    Exactly. If you feel the need to purchase her an engagement ring, at least buy her a legitimately valuable stone such as emerald.
  • dcbrown07, on 10/11/2007, -11/+33digg users get as far as engagement??
  • canewediggit, on 10/11/2007, -4/+25rose- again, you are confusing "want" and "need". there is a distinct difference. there's nothing wrong with "wanting" a diamond. although i have some reservations in regard to the industry and what it does to the miners, i would buy a (certified fair trade/non-blood) diamond for a woman i was marrying. but if it's a "need" issue.........

    calling people misogynistic for knowing the difference is short-sighted.
  • eean, on 10/11/2007, -3/+24Erm, so being bought and paid for is now female empowerment?
  • Jelfish, on 10/11/2007, -1/+22As far as I've seen, men have just as much to do with the perpetuation of this tradition, since they often buy the ring and propose before the bride-to-be knows about it. Then, she takes it as a gift, imbuing it as a symbol of that moment. It's not surprising that she would want to hold on to it, regardless of her feelings on the tradition. I honestly don't think that most women (esp. now-a-days) would be totally upset if they got an engagement ring of something else if they had any desire to marry the man anyway.

    Unfortunately, men who don't know any better will probably buy the ring just to make the moment as special as possible, fearing that doing anything else could complicate the already difficult proposal process. What really needs to happen is for rich and famous men to start giving their brides-to-be something else to start a trend. Because no matter what they do, they, unlike the common men, don't have to worry about appearing cheap (because they're rich) or uncultured (because they define it). That, or women have to start proposing to men.
  • geekee, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23Giving a ring, whether a promise ring or an engagement ring, isn't completely selfless. It also has the purpose of telling others she's off the market.
  • Lister169, on 10/11/2007, -1/+19I think we're all missing the important issue here. How does Ron Paul feel about diamond engagement rings?
  • mianiam, on 10/11/2007, -2/+20Are you kidding? I would love a lab-grown diamond! I think they're great, and flawless. Screw all that "a real diamond has flaws that give it character" crap. Although if my bf ever proposed I'd most likely have a heart attack.
  • sikosmurf, on 10/11/2007, -1/+18"I could have proposed with a friggin' fruit loop for all she cared."

    She must have really tiny fingers..
  • xoon, on 10/11/2007, -3/+20I am compressing dirt as we speak, and we all know patience is a virtue!
  • animeguru, on 10/11/2007, -3/+20@solarwinds

    I wholeheartedly agree. No one is forcing anyone to buy a diamond. If you don't want to buy one, and your potential wife balks, then perhaps she isn't the one after all. Ladies, you're free to express your disdain for a diamond ring or you can get off your ass and buy your man a plasma TV... the cost is similar to what he'll incur (personally, I think that's a fabulous idea). Guys, if you want to buy your woman a diamond, then do it. Ladies, if you want a diamond that'd choke a donkey, marry for money.

    If you despise DeBeers but still want a diamond, there _are_ places in America that you can circumvent their hold. Case in point, I bought my wife a Russian diamond ring... and if there is anyone that DeBeers hates, it's the Russian diamond mines who refuse to bow to their monopoly.

    You could also buy a man made diamond. Again, completely feasible, and, except for a trained professional, no one will ever know the difference. Probably cheaper too (I don't know).

    Yes, diamond rings as an engagement gift is an old tradition, and yes it signified ownership and the all powerful man-penis-strength-headofhousehold-masculinity that we all love to loathe, but get over yourself. If you don't agree, make your voice heard through your buying power... stop writing articles about how it's the utter downfall of feminism and will result in women losing the right to vote and being thrown back into the kitchen.
  • CatsAreGods, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18My wife hates big diamonds, likes opals, and was perfectly happy with an opal engagement ring.

    That was 30 years ago, and we're still together.
  • LTetraX, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19I've already told my boyfriend that if he HAS to get a ring, and it doesn't come out of a 25 cent machine, I'm kicking his ass. That's our precious video game/ computer/other geek stuff money, dang it! :(
  • chaosium, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19"quit being a cheap ass and trying to get out of buying things

    ps: the bigger the rock the more chance you'll get laid. Just sayin"

    You need to buy diamonds to get laid.
  • xstarsprinklesx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16"because that's what people do" is about the dumbest reason possible to do anything.
  • workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Yeah, that is a bit harsh, but I agree with your overall message. The message that marketing firms are trying to drill into people's heads is "the more money he spends on you, the more he loves you".

    Every valentines day, a friend of mine buys his wife a card - he always buys the biggest card he can find, because in his mind, the bigger the card, the more he demonstrates his love for her - he has the right sentiment, but the marketing has shaped the way he expresses it to a single, pretty much irrelevent criteria that serves their own ends. The message in the card is almost unimportant to him - so long as the card itself is big!

    The problem is, that because of the nature of the "more money = more love" marketing message, if you question it at all, you can be seen as lacking in commitment / devotion.
  • ninjakitty07, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15@wolf_brim: I'll say amen to that.

    My husband and I had a small Renaissance theme wedding on a college student budget. It was simple to put together and almost everyone who was there has said it was one of the most enjoyable wedding they'd ever been to. My best friend is getting married next month and will be almost thirty thousand dollars in the hole afterwards, for a wedding her mother has mostly taken over. Too bad, she could have taken my advice and eloped and bought a house together instead. :)
  • workharderscum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13Ah yes, the famous "flapping boobs" theory of socio-feministic equality...
  • xnviews, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14Hooray. Another one in the ranks to line the pockets of a diamond industry. GO ON BRAVE SOLDIER!
  • WileEPeyote, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13If you need over-priced jewelry to feel special seek professional help.
  • prammy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Definitely marry a chick who wants an engadget ring ?
  • kathaclysm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12The diamond ring on my finger doesn't make me feel like a woman... nor does having taken my husband's last name... what makes me feel special is going to home depot & hauling drywall for our house, and having other men look at me like they wish their wives would help them work on the house... that is what makes me feel special.

    The last time I was in a dress was a friend's wedding, and even if all the costume jewelry I had on was real, it couldn't make me feel more like a woman than when I get home, strip naked, and take a shower with my husband at the end of the day. The only thing I can think of that could possibly make me feel more like a woman would be becoming a mother.
  • realyst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13It certainly doesn't make you a horrible person to expect a chivalrous act of romantic symbolism.

    However, I must ask, what if the ring was of cubic zirconium and the man of modest wage?
  • KarthVader, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11And science is the winner here.
  • siszam, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Ender, if the girl really loves you she won't need a diamond. Giving her one does not prove your love. It proves you don't spend money wisely. Set up an IRA for her and fund it each month. Now that's love and true commitment.
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