What is Digg?1068 Comments
- stronglikedan, on 03/03/2008, -166/+426J is what you call "asking for trouble". J wanted it; J got it. J admits to carrying the item to the door without a bag or proof of purchase. What he won't get is sympathy. Is it really that hard to get a bag or, if the item does not fit in a bag, just hold the receipt with the item as you walk out?
I don't agree that he should have been touched in any way, but I don't agree with conscious provocation (which IMHO is the case here). - skoles, on 03/03/2008, -17/+181There used to be a time, not more than 8 years ago, when you could walk out of a store after leaving the register without being harassed. When there would be employees who walked the store, and a security monitor viewing cameras & keeping tabs on shady people to keep theft in check. That way the people who were there honestly making purchased, were not suddenly a potential criminal after walking 15' from the register to the door. Plus all stores know that the biggest form of theft comes from employees and not customers.
I haven't had anyone give me trouble for NOT showing my receipt. They just let me go. But the day I get a hard time about it, I'm going to just turn around and return the merchandise right there in front of them and leave empty handed. That would be the proper way to handle this situation. - clownguyx, on 03/03/2008, -4/+157I worked at Wal-Mart for 7 years (documented at wallyworldlife.com) and there were very strict policies about ever stopping a customer. If someone denied to show a receipt, that was the end of it, no exceptions. They know it is a huge liability and not worth recovering $20 in merchandise.
Loss prevention could, but if they made a bad stop they were most likely fired. - bravo369, on 03/03/2008, -62/+180people say that a store has to witness a person shoplifting to confront them. Well in this case, the guy is walking out the store with an item that has no SOLD sticker on it and no visible receipt. That seems like i'm witnessing a shoplifting in progress. i don't understand why people get all crazy over showing a receipt. I'd rather clear it up if they think I didn't pay for an item. I do think that checking receipts from EVERY customer is stupid and unwarranted but asking for receipt from someone who's actions look out of place (no bag, no visible receipt, no SOLD sticker) seems fair to me.
- MattyLite, on 03/03/2008, -13/+125Did he do it to prove a point? Yes. Was he acting like an ass? Absolutely. Guess what: he has every right, as a United States citizen to do both of those things. The Walmart employee on the other hand, has no right to detain people.
- kingmanic, on 03/03/2008, -8/+95You're forgetting where the store clerk over stepped her bounds into criminal actions. The problem isn't the customer, he isn't required by any law to show the receipt. The store may ask politely for it. If the customer declines it's not within the rights of the store to detain him unless shop lifting was directly observed.
- div2n, on 03/03/2008, -16/+92I often don't take a bag if I'm buying one item. It's wasteful.
Also, there is no law requiring me to show them a receipt. Period.
Lastly, if they grab me, it's assault and I'm going to own them in court when I sue. - trevorjez, on 03/03/2008, -13/+88while i agree that i don't need to show a receipt, i do wonder, if he is such a consumer advocate, what he is doing shopping at wal-mart in the first place...
- Moosehawk, on 03/03/2008, -15/+73The point the customer was trying to reach was that it's a violation of 4th amendment rights for companies to temporarily detain you and force you to show a receipt if you don't want to. He could have gone about it in a better way, but it's still a small push for consumer rights.
If you were sign a contract to shop at places like Sam's Club or Costco, it's completely legal for them to check your receipt, as it is in the contract and you're paying for a service. - Y0tsuya, on 03/03/2008, -32/+84That's why I shop at Target and Costco. At least you don't have to show the receipt at Target (yet). As for Costco, you agreed to it when you signed up for membership. I never agreed to have my bags searched when I shop at Wal-mart, or Fry's for that matter.
- charmaniac, on 03/03/2008, -2/+51I am intimately familiar with Wal-Mart's corporate policies, and I can tell you for a fact that if the employee physically grabbed this customer as they claim, that employee will be fired. Nearly every retailer out there expressly prohibits their employees from physically detaining suspected shoplifters and there is zero tolerance for employees who "grab the arm" of a suspected shoplifter. You can ask them to come with you, but if they walk off there is NOTHING the retailer can do besides call police. They do this because they don't want to be sued. This is America, after all.
- Chipper, on 03/03/2008, -5/+50Why do we keep accepting burdens that we don't need to? Irrelevant that the transaction is completed and you have clear legal title to the merchandise you acquired, the burden is on the store to prove you stole something. It's not your burden to prove you didn't steal something. One will keep loosing rights when you allow folks to push you around, and then allow them convince you they have the right to do it.
- Oomsoup, on 03/03/2008, -28/+72It's "would have" and so what? It is perfectly fine for him to decline to show his receipt and he was in the right. Don't tell me you are one of those people who want a national ID because it will "make everything easier"? Sometimes it's okay to do the hard thing to stand up for your rights.
- inactive, on 03/03/2008, -11/+51"J admits to carrying the item to the door without a bag or proof of purchase."
No he doesn't, you idiot. Learn to read. He had the receipt, he just chose not to show it. - daggah, on 03/03/2008, -5/+44They don't, however, have the right to detain someone. They have no legal authority to do that.
- Oomsoup, on 03/03/2008, -20/+57Because he doesn't have to?
- geerolla, on 03/03/2008, -11/+46Did they witness him pick it up off the shelf and walk out the door without paying for it? No. That would be witnessing a shoplift.
- master_of_fm, on 03/03/2008, -2/+36actually my wife works in loss prevention and at least for her store she is the only one authorized to make apprehensions. general store employees and even the store manager are not allowed to detain anyone, only her. also there is something like 3 or 4 requirements/observations that must be made before she will apprehend someone. she is always 100% confident that a person is stealing before making an apprehension, otherwise she opens herself and the store up to .prosecution.
i can guarantee that a door-nazi at wal-mart is not trained nor qualified to make apprehensions, let alone attempting to stop a person from leaving the store. - kingmanic, on 03/03/2008, -1/+35Not everything has to do with left and right. Your instance on making it a Left vs Right issue makes you look like a propagandist.
- diggduggjoe, on 03/03/2008, -4/+35Returning the product is the strongest effective way to get your point across. If, dozens of people did that every day, Wlalmart would stop the practice.
- jccalhoun, on 03/03/2008, -8/+38So not taking a plastic bag that you don't want and that would either need to be recycled or thrown into a landfill is asking for trouble?
I never take a bag when I only have one item because I don't want the bother of recyling or throwing it away. Am I asking for trouble? - MattyLite, on 03/03/2008, -7/+37He's exercising his legal right to.
- SomeImagination, on 03/03/2008, -57/+85Just show him the receipt and be on your way. I hate drama queens... OMG HE TOUCHED YOU?!!!?
- Kraemahz, on 03/03/2008, -1/+27Those damn liberals ruin everything! How dare they have different opinions!
- rholland356, on 03/03/2008, -2/+26You get fewer Diggs when you show your receipt.
- blackinthmiddle, on 03/03/2008, -1/+25My brother-in-law is a defense lawyer. One of his co-workers once went to a store in the mall (I think it was Macys) and when he was leaving the alarm went off. As he had bought NOTHING, he assumed that it wasn't for him and kept going. The guy up front jumped towards him and grabbed him by the arm. He asked if he was free to go and the guy said, "no". So he quietly sat and waited until they could determine he did nothing wrong.
He then promptly sent a letter to the store on official letterhead from the firm stating that he was held against his will and was thinking of taking legal action. The store promptly cut him a check for $5K. - Bodieslikesheep, on 03/03/2008, -8/+30Can you say litigation?
As a 2 year employee at Staples, it was STRICTLY prohibited that base level employees make any comment let alone physical action to prevent possible shoplifters from exiting the store.
If this guy gets a lawyer who knows what he doing (passing the BAR isn't so easy), then this trip to Wally World for a simple hanger may turn into a life of never having to work again, courtesy of Mr. Walton. +10 diggs for the U.S. legal system! - inactive, on 03/03/2008, -9/+30How does walking out of the store indicate that you stole something? Don't people who purchase things ALSO walk out of stores? There's nothing the least bit suspicious about taking merchandise that you PAID FOR out the door. No court would treat that as suspicious behavior, regardless of whatever your dumb hunch is.
- inactive, on 03/03/2008, -14/+35Dude at least had some vague understanding of the law. I would have told the dumbass fake cop dude that if he's not a cop I'm reporting him for impersonating one, and I would have told the Wal-Mart security douche that if he values his job he'd step out of the way or be prepared to face a summons for false imprisonment.
I actually walked out of Circuit City once without showing my receipt and the security douche followed me outside and took down my license plate number. I called the store manager from my car and asked what they did with those numbers. According to her, nothing, which is good for them because it is unlawful for them to report you to the police without PARTICULARIZED suspicion. That means they have to give a detailed description of whatever actions you took that indicated that you had stolen something. Refusing to show your receipt for an item you had already purchased is NOT such an indication. And they can't make up some ***** about how they saw you putting things in your pocket if there are security camera tapes that will vindicate you.
Without particularized suspicion they got nothing, and they are liable for civil damages for having you arrested. If this guy really wanted to be a douche about it he could let the manager call the police, then lose his job, then sue Wal Mart for false imprisonment + false arrest AND for lost wages caused by their illegal actions. - Sawta, on 03/03/2008, -21/+42This article could have just as easily been titled "Man refuses to prove that he's not stealing, and employee's go overboard."
Neither side acted well. - kingmanic, on 03/03/2008, -15/+36You are not legally required to show it in most jurisdictions. Physically restraining someone for a receipt is illegal search and seizure as well as unlawful confinement.
- FloMonster, on 03/03/2008, -3/+23Shopkeeper's privilege only applies if the shop has reasonable suspicion that you have shoplifted from the store. Refusing to show your receipt is not sufficient for them to detain you.
I purchased a flat screen TV from Best Buy in January 2008. It was late in the evening and the only register open was the one closest to the exit. The door greeter had a clear view of me making my purchase, he was close enough that he could probably overhear my conversation with the cashier. I paid for my purchase and walked towards the exit. He asked to see my receipt, to which I replied no thank you. He then told me that he HAD to see my receipt, and I told him no, he didn't, and continued to walk out of the store. He continued to demand my receipt as I got to my car, but he returned to the store when other customers began to exit.
I know my rights, and I know about the shopkeeper's privilege doctrine. Unless I sign a membership agreement that explicitly states I must show my receipt to exit, or the store has reasonable suspicion that I shoplifted, I refuse to waste my time showing anyone my papers. - Asberry, on 03/03/2008, -38/+58J sounds like a douchebag. Just take the 5 seconds to show your receipt. The employee was just making sure the guy wasn't stealing.
- bradcrc, on 03/03/2008, -0/+20I had a similar situation in WalMart.
I was walking out of walmart after buying a pair of shoes. The cashier did not beep the shoes so when I walked out, the alarms went off.
The door guy said wait, and started walking towards me. No problem. I stop, and coopertatively hold my receipt out for this guy to "prove" that I paid for the damn things.
He gets to within 5 feet of me, then stops, and turns around, then walks over to another customer who is entering the store with a return. He stamps their package, and begins to talk with them. I stand there, and he's giving me nothing. Another customer enters, and he starts talking with that customer as well.
***** that. I'm done. I'm mad. I start pushing my cart out to my car. This, of course, makes the ***** decide to give me some attention, but at this point, I have no intention of showing the prick any more courtesy than he showed me. The incompetence of their employees is there problem, not mine. I'm a patient person until the point where someone takes advantage of me.
I walk to my car and load the stuff I PAID for into it, all while they are hollaring and waving their arms at me. If the same situation came up, I'd do it again, though I'd probably start to leave as soon as the guy turned around and left me standing there holding out my receipt. - kingmanic, on 03/03/2008, -4/+23Totally unreasonable for them to detain or search you for it. Read up on the laws surrounding search and seizure. When I used to work a theater they told us strictly that we may decline entrance to people who are visibly holding food but even if he's wearing a huge bulging winter jacket in the middle of july, we can't ask to see whats in his pocket.
- willfe, on 03/03/2008, -1/+19djbon2112: Nonsense. If the merchant believes a person has committed an act of shoplifting, they can *ask* the person to stop or they can contact police for help. None of this super-fun happy "tackle and rough up" crap. That's a paddlin'. :)
- joosebuck, on 03/03/2008, -18/+36guess what, it's your ***** 4th amendment right not to be unlawfully searched or detained. grow a ***** pair.
- brjndr, on 03/03/2008, -1/+18If it suspected you did not pay. But that suspicion has to be reasonable. They can't stop everyone, and they have to have a reason to stop the person they do. It's called shopkeepers privilege, and the requirements vary slightly from state to state, so make sure you know the rules where you live.
- damndj, on 03/03/2008, -9/+26He was totally a drama queen and deserved to get tazed.
- kiwiboyus, on 03/03/2008, -1/+18What a tool you are. Those liberals you seem to hate are the only ones that stand up for your consumer rights. Way to miss the point.
- gamabunta, on 03/03/2008, -2/+18As soon as he purchased that item it became his private property. The store has no right to search your private property.
- skoles, on 03/03/2008, -3/+19Common courtesy? I just helped the store earn a profit and they are going to immediately treat me as if I stole it?
Your brother sounds like he works with a bunch of morons that leave $5,000 TV's unsecured & untagged along with an idiot at the controls of the stores cameras. - offspring06, on 03/03/2008, -0/+16You sir are an idiot. Why do cons have to bring politics into every situation. I swear everything in life is political to a conservative.
- daggah, on 03/03/2008, -2/+18Buried for being a strawman.
- umdigger, on 03/03/2008, -0/+15Also, it's hard to tell the 70 year old woman at the door to piss off because you don't want to show your receipt. Shes old and may have cookies for you.
- kingmanic, on 03/03/2008, -0/+15I'm not a lawyer. I do work for a public legal education firm. If the store employee observed a crime being committed she may issue a citizens arrest and ask the customer to be detained until the police arrive. they may not physically detain them. the Store employee may notify the police in either case. I am only 100% that it is applicable within Alberta, Canada before the date we reviewed the material. However most juristictions in north America have similar laws.
- quarkie, on 03/03/2008, -25/+40Because people on Digg seem to think that this is a violation of their basic human rights.
Hint: If you don't like it, don't shop there. I have no problem with showing my receipt. It takes all of three seconds and I don't look like a giant ***** by yelling at someone who is just doing their job.
It's the same about the guy who went to Bestbuy and paid with all American $2 bills.... Why? You're just looking for trouble. - ObeseEurotrash, on 03/03/2008, -16/+31Stealing from wal-mart is the most patriotic thing you can do.
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