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142 Comments
- DeskFlyer, on 11/13/2007, -2/+45"When China awakes, the world will tremble."
- Napoléon Bonaparte - 1AliciaMc, on 11/13/2007, -2/+27This is a time bomb waiting to explode. Exchange my dollars for Yuan, anyone? Anyone?
- Hockey13, on 11/13/2007, -1/+19All that China has to gain from having a cheap currency is the same that we have to gain from it. They only hurt their balance of payments and induce inflation by maintaining this rapid growth. They already did revalue it to a new mix that is more closely tied to the Euro, so as the Euro gets stronger, the US will become a very lucrative place to put investment money again. We can already see some of this happening now as European investors find investment in the US a bit cheaper. Things will even out again if we get things balanced on the governmental side. There are 300 million people in the US, many of whom are capable workers. The dollar weakening is not the end of the world, but it is the end of your dollar taking you a long way abroad.
- commernie, on 11/14/2007, -1/+18First of all, lead poisoning isn't caused by "lead poison", but by lead in the blood. Second, how about sharing the blame with Fisher Price or the other American companies who actually SOLD the product?
- inactive, on 11/13/2007, -0/+14LOL
It's going to be the other way around if anyone starts any *****.
We are outnumbered and out cashed. You had best start being nicer to China. - inactive, on 11/13/2007, -2/+15When it rains, it pours.
- SuckMyDigg, on 11/13/2007, -1/+12If the yuan was revalued higher, China would lose billions on our debt repayments. That's kinda the thing we're going for it seems. We wanna get outta payin the massive debt we owe everyone now. Pretty much basic economics.
- T8erT0T, on 11/13/2007, -0/+9Why you acting so spicy toward us General Tso?
- BD86, on 11/13/2007, -1/+10The question is what isn't made in China.
- hitwill, on 11/13/2007, -1/+9Their economy has grown by 1000% in the last 30 years. That's insane unbridled growth!
- Comatose51, on 11/13/2007, -0/+7I really don't get this. Why does every Chinese, including my father, think we screwed over Japan. They had a freaking bubble. Did you see how high their real estate price went before the bubble? Some of the valuation for Japanese companies came almost entirely from their buildings and real estate. Real estate value increased the on the book value of companies which lead to more money being invested and being made available. The extra cash drove real estate prices up. It was a cycle that eventually couldn't continue. Read Edward Chancellor's "Devil Takes the Hindmost".
Please explain this one to us ignorant Americans. We rebuilt Japan only to screwed them over and leave them with the world's 2nd biggest economy? Explain please. - vanza001, on 11/13/2007, -10/+17WAKE UP! you're dreamin... they OWN us! I'm curious as to what your definition of overtake is?
- DucoNihilum, on 11/13/2007, -2/+9Compare their nominal GDP per capita with ours.
People said the same things you did about China with Japan, with Taiwan..... They're just fads. - Comatose51, on 11/14/2007, -0/+7What a lot of people forget is that China has historically and up to this point been very self sufficient. They have historically been exporters of goods and I'm talking about going back centuries, not just decades. Guess how the opium wars go started. Because the UK had a huge trade imbalance with China and needed China to import something so they sold opium to China to get the Chinese addicted. (Just switch opium with oil and you'll get what OPEC is doing to us) There is a lot to be said about self sufficiency. When everything you need is supplied by your own people, anything above that can be sold to other countries and cheaply too.
The Chinese have basically maintained this self sufficiency by taxing the hell out of foreign goods. Foreign companies are then forced to open up factories in China but China has a law on the book that doesn't allow majority foreign ownership in any Chinese company so the foreign companies end up "partnering" with Chinese companies. At the same time the Chinese learn industrial techniques from America and other companies all the while our money is being invested in building Chinese infrastructure. There's no doubt American companies and consumers gained a lot in the short term. Just look at Walmart. Everything there is made in China and the cheaper goods help American consumers in the short term. But then if you look at the effects of Walmart on a longer scale, you see it destroys locally owned businesses. The Walmart effect is a good analogy for what China is doing to us. - taosbob, on 11/14/2007, -0/+6All very true, but it is also true that a significant minority of the Chinese population (say 100 million) is now relatively wealthy by European standards and is finding it hard to spend all their money, hence the frantic speculation in real estate there. All the partisan China bashing aside, WTO membership has made a real difference in Chinese openness to the outside world. My friends in China would love to buy more American manufactured or luxury goods, if only we made something they want! VW is huge, GM is lagging. Samsung is doing well, Motorola is languishing. Kodak has a major presence, but Fuji is bigger (or so it seems to me) and digital pictures are gradually undermining both. Starbucks, Yum brands, Microsoft, and perhaps Apple computer are examples of companies that can succeed in appealing to the flood of wealth there now. Carrefour stores there are great; Wallmart looks tacky. In my opinion we need to stop whining and find a way to appeal to Chinese consumers.
- Lionhart, on 11/13/2007, -0/+6You get what you pay for.
- Comatose51, on 11/13/2007, -1/+7Right because his gold standard idea and eliminating the federal reserve is exactly what China did to gain their economic advantage... (Hint: China took the OPPOSITE approach)
- taosbob, on 11/14/2007, -1/+7But don't forget as well that the cheap RMB is, in effect, a subsidy of almost every American, in terms of the lower costs we pay for almost any manufactured item. It's as if the workers of China wrote a check for $1000 to each American citizen. By forgoing the purchasing power that a stronger RMB would give them, they are the ones paying the cost of our cheap way of life here. Manufacturers have bought out the press and Congress, so no one speaks for average consumers, but in fact we're far better off with a cheap RMB. It's strange our own manufacturers can't compete when the Germans are able to do so in China with the added burden of an expensive Euro. If you REALLY want a strong RMB, then what you're saying in effect is that you want to pay an extra tax of up to $1000s a year to subsidize our incompetent manufacturing sector.
- dcbebop, on 11/13/2007, -1/+6You are absolutely right. All this really means is that we're going to be Europes bitch when it comes to tourism. If you can find a way to do a job for the UK and get paid in GBP, do it. It's like making double your earnings after the conversion.
- Zique, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5Economists have predicted the trends and been right with Japan and Taiwan, it's just the general public that loves to go into the panic mode.
Anyway, most reliable prediction see China's nominal GDP surpassing that of USA in the early 2040's. - podrag, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5'Some U.S. lawmakers are pressing for sanctions on China if it fails to ease controls on its currency' Ahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Dear Some,
You are a f*cking moron.
Regards
Patrick - EntangledPhysx, on 11/13/2007, -1/+6China as the biggest super power terrifies the hell out of me.
- kindpastor, on 11/13/2007, -0/+5And all it took was a little capitalism. Maybe Communism could finally win for good by replacing the little with a lot. *corruption of lol*
- XZanatos, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4In other, fewer, words: The USA is becoming the New China (tm)
- novask, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4It is in fact undervalued. Its in Chinas best interest to keep it that way for at least, the foreseeable future.
- inactive, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4Two words regarding Japan: Liquidity Trap. If you don't know what that is (impotent interest rates) take a 300 econ course, or read wikipedia. Japanese policy makers can blame themselves for the 1990s.
- jambox, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4Who's the more competent administrator - George Bush or Hu Jintao?
No contest - Hu. - TechCF, on 11/13/2007, -0/+4US with power has been proved scary too! Giving weapons to Israel, giving weapons to Iraq. Then fighting most countries in the region.. damn..
- jlhoben, on 11/13/2007, -2/+6I thought Greenspan was a genius? So much for globalism.
- unique172, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3Umm, unfair to who? If you say us, you're a bastard.
- kindpastor, on 11/13/2007, -1/+4I doubt you've ever taken economics, a statement like:
"Yeah, a weak dollar is just GREAT for an economy that imports almost everything."
Implies a severe lack of knowledge. We certainly don't import "almost everything" (if that were true our trade deficit would be 99% as opposed to 5.8%). - bjornski, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3And wages are getting there. And the value of the dollar.
In fact when you index them together, and the standard of living that used to be achievable with a single income household, that even many double income households are having problems with, the number of unemployed people is only partially relevant. Especially considering the amount of people holding down two jobs to make up for the one they used to have, to make about the same amount of money. - ZenMojo, on 11/13/2007, -0/+3GDP sounds like a great thing until you realize our GDP is a fraction of the debt we owe to China while they run a surplus. In other words, we're not making money, we're borrowing it and paying off the damn interest. THAT is what's scary.
- bjornski, on 11/13/2007, -2/+4But...but...but.... FREE TRADE!
THE FREE MARKET WILL SAVE US! Ron Paul said so! - EntangledPhysx, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Not going to happen, no way--no how. American businesses rely on a model of never taking risks. And trying to appeal to the chinese is a risk... I dont know how else to interpret such low innovation in the automotive industry until lately.
- kindpastor, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2lol at jhoben's idea that greenspan can control demand for the dollar.
Greenspan: You WILL buy more dollars:
China: We WILL buy more dollars.
Greenspan: Excellent, now whatever you do don't exchange those dollars for Euro's.
China: Echange our dollars for Euros.
Greenspan: No! I said DON'T! DON'T exchange your...ah ***** it, I guess I'm not a Genius after all!
You know who's definitely not a genius? --jhoben, he should be threatened with death by a JD firing squad the next time he forms an opinion. - qwertydvorak, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2comatose, you are right on the money. also it ties in with the keeping chinese currency low valued, it keeps western manufacturers dumping tons of money into factories there. once we have dumped all of our money there in machinery, they will raise the value of the currency and they suddenly become less attractive as an exporter. they will then be able to do more production for the local market using machinery we installed and paid for. they will stay self sufficient all at our expense. they are selling us the rope that we are hanging ourselves with.
if our leadership going back to the creation of the WTO were smart they wouldn't have allowed china to play in the same sandbox until they allowed open foreign ownership of companies. they would have also negotiated better deals on tariffs of goods going into china.
here is an article about chinese auto tariffs: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HF15Cb ...
they get to charge 25% tariff on cars we send over there, but they are going to start sending cars here and expect us to not tax them. the relationship with china is too one sided, and the west should have never allowed it to happen. we are fighting with our hands tied. they can tax our exports to death, but we can't tax theirs. their companies can compete against ours without dealing with all of the environmental regs, and safety regs. - cyberdork, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2"China making lots of money that we don't see a cent of!"
Ehm, not really... the whole American spending frenzy of the past 10 years is due to China investing most of their dollars back in the US. The current account deficit is close to one trillion dollar, meaning that every single day the US needs to attract more than $2 billion in foreign investments to keep up it's exuberant lifestyle. Lucky for Americans the Chinese have been willing to do exactly that for the past decade. - eatsushi, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Good job US! Let's send in the lawyers because another country is doing better than us. That'll show em, we'll spread our fear of the law all over the world until our economy is in perfect balance again.
US culture of today: finding quick easy answers to long problems while doing as little as possible. - Amazetbm, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2...and US government borrowing and US consumer dollars. I think business with Wal Mart alone accounts for 20% of their GDP.
- Delt3030, on 11/14/2007, -3/+5What happened to your free trade ideology now America?
Freaking hypocrites... - jambox, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Yep. When was it decided that both parents would have to work if they wanted to dress their children in anything but rags?
It's the same in the UK - me and the missus are earning the equivalent of maybe $120,000 pa and we're still broke. - inactive, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Heard of PPP?
- inactive, on 11/13/2007, -2/+4Unemployment is the lowest its been since the 1960s.
- rocket777, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2a) that one is wrong. Some exporters will do better, but at the expense of importers, so that cancels out. But we all pay higher prices in the long run, so it does hurt.
b) ok
c) ok
d) gdp figures come from the government, so you can't trust them - rocket777, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2Greenspan recently somewhat accidentaly admitted that we only need the FED because with a FIAT currency, you need someone to decide how much counterfeiting the government should do. He used to talk about shutting down the FED until he went to work for them. Now, he's sort of going back to his roots. But he won't say anything to ruin his reputation, even if it's the truth.
- EntangledPhysx, on 11/13/2007, -1/+3well I suppose we would just export more than
- Politikil, on 11/13/2007, -1/+3And yet you still have to honk to get them to start going from a green light
- rocket777, on 11/13/2007, -0/+2When goods stop crossing borders, soldiers soon do.
Trade wars hurt us all. HIgher tarrifs are just higher taxes. -
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