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70 Comments
- mecole21, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34Guess Walmart will be pulling out of China
- alanspach, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29you are the dumb
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26This is extremely misleading. Most workers are "unionized" in China. But it isn't like the unions in the US. In China, they are mostly social groups that are monitored by the government. China is forcing this union to prevent the workers from organizing their own union.
To summarize, Wal-Mart won't be leaving China because of this. Chinese unions aren't like "western" unions. If anything, this will benefit Wal-Mart because China will be able to better control workers' wages, etc. And don't think that China will use that to screw Wal-Mart because they want the outside investment and publicity of their supposedly open economy. - elusive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20They aren't allowed to ban unions. They use shady techniques to discourage them. Wal-Mart's worker demographics isn't exactly the type who have the resources to fight against this so things have been this way for a long time.
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18You guys don't seem to get the joke, or you wouldn't be modding the parent down. Walmart has shut down several stores because they got close to unionizing.
- will42, on 10/12/2007, -12/+26I don't understand how in a civilised country, like the US, a huge company such as this can be allowed to ban unions. Trade unions are the bedrock of workers' rights.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Unions ensure regular pay increases which encourages worker retention. How often do you find a helpful minimum wager at Walmart?
Of course, paying more for resources is not the Walmart way. - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"Chinese unions aren't like "western" unions."
The fastest way to send money, worldwide? - theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Unions are mainly for highly skilled blue collar workers. Electricians, Welders, Pipe-fitters, Automobile workers, Meat cutters, etc. Unions work for those type of jobs because you can't go out and hire Larry, Moe and Curly to replace those kinds of jobs in an afternoon.
Larry, Moe and Curly, being unskilled, CAN walk into a Wal-mart and start working nearly as effectively as the unskilled labor pool already there. I mean, really, how long does it take to learn a cash register, or unpack some cartons from boxes and put them on a shelf.
Welding on the other hand, takes months to learn, and a lifetime to master. My dad was a welder at Bethlehem Steel practically his whole life, in the United Steelworkers Union, and he was better for it. He retired with full benefits, a healthy pension, and his house paid for.
I just wish I had that type of job security. - eean, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Though as I understand it Chinese official labor unions are mostly a method of controlling labor. Seems like Wal-Mart should be OK with that.
- elephantdog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually Walmart isn't doing so well in China. I think they survive in North America because of the currency difference, but in China where most of their goods come from in the first place, too many competitors exist. One store that does seem to be doing well there is IKEA- go figure.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Under Communism, since the proletariat already controls the state and runs the factories, you cannot strike since you'd be striking against yourself! Oh, the irony...
- ivachen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Unions have very little power in China. They run more inline with what a "Activities Committee" would do than a Labor union in the US.
- Xcalibur, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9To UncommonSense: you don't know Walmart then. Strong arming tactics take precedence over good business sense if it means defending the principles they laud all the time. Does anybody remember the story about the Walmart a couple years back whose employees tried to unionize? Walmart's solution was to permanently shut the store down. Petty, but effective. They rule their empire with an iron fist as many have.
- FJBill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7No one forces anyone to work at Wal-Mart. Get a job somewhere else if it's so bad, you whiner.
- WilliamTanksley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8A union organized by the Chicoms won't "give the people some voice". It'll just provide another way for the government to control both the workers and the company that employs them.
- kidtux, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Is it me or does it seem odd that a communist country is going to unionize Walmart before the US does?
- xavihax0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6people who says unions are good are bad are missing the underlying power behind them, which is granted by the government. Unions are given special privileges in certain states which legally force a company to only hire union workers. This effectively lets unions negotiate higher wages for their workers, however it keeps non-union workers from getting a job, as higher wages make it so that companies cannot afford as much labor. However, this also means that people will have a harder time getting a job even after they join a union, thus unions are good for those on the inside, yet horrible for those that they shut out.
The greatest problem i see with the powers that the states have granted to the unions are their ridiculous job protection rules which make each person have a defined job, where they are not allowed to do anything outside of it. This destroys productivity, and means that companies are even less likely to be able to afford to raise workers wages. And unions' rejection of productivity enhancing machines is even worse. See GM and Ford for example - UncommonSense, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Wal-mart won't necessarily pull out of China. The customer base there is ridiculously huge, and pulling out due to unionization would is just poor business sense. For those who believe that multi-billionaire companies always get there way, even when it comes to China, I have one word for you: Google.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Unions are collective; corporations are collective. Does that make corporations for the weak and lazy?
- wetworx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I had a job at the times a while back, mostly unskilled labor kinda thing while I was working through NYU, I was constantly amazed at the union guys, they would bring in their lawn chairs in the morning, along with their coolers, and sit around, eating and playing cards all day. Then, for a brief 15 minute period, they would get up, slice open the machine wrapped papers and another set of union guys woudl re-wrap the papers up.
Funny thing was, these guys would bitch about having to do that. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6UNions are legal in China? :o
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Maybe Apple's sweatshops should start unionizing too.
- cisox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4About 4 years ago I was a CSM (Customer Service Manager) at Wal-Mart. These are the people running around in the red vests. During my training they had a long presentation about unions. Wal-Marts stand with unions is that they are not 'Anti-Union' but rather 'Pro-Associate'. There reasoning behind this is instead of having the bureaucracy that unions bring to a work place, they have an open door policy where you can go directly to any level of management with a concern. I, admittedly, don't know much about unions, however, this seems to make sense to me.
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Walmart loves these Chinese unions however. It puts them under control. It prevents them from forming their own unions. These are NOT AT ALL like the Independent Unions that we have in the USA.
- cookiemonster01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4mongolia?
- ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Exactly, being in a union in China also means you do various things... that are shady too but mainly because you are tied with the government. Being in the Chinese Communist Party means you make reports on your fellow peers, however you also get a partial pardon from any crimes you do (like if you get the death penalty you get life imprisonment instead).
Unions like the ones in the USA are expressly forbidden. - cookiemonster01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3funny how things work out. but the 8 yuan to 1dollar currency makes the union look like a joke to walmart.
i was in shanghai last month, looks like Target is really trying to push their way in.
anyways, i don't think department stores like walmart or target will have the same impact as it did in the states. mainly because it doesn't have too much to offer the chinese over any of the other department stores there. - ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Embracing capitalism to a degree. Its still very socialist (state ownership). All those shiny new skyscrapers built by foreign companies will be turned over to the Chinese government in 25-50 years and the land is leased from the government. Most companies with branches in China have parts of their companies owned by the Chinese government, if their branches fold, it can only be 'returned' to the Chinese government. Many closed down Taiwanese factories are not allowed to ship their equipment back to Taiwan and must 'surrender' it to the Chinese government.
True Capitalism? Not by a long shot.
You'll find quickly that many of these new Chinese corporations were built on the remains of foreign corporations. - jester6641, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8ummm, that is the strangest news I've ever heard. when I was actually in Beijing (for a year, not just a week or so, but a whole year) pretty much everyone used their hands at McD's. And as for hygiene, well, I'm going to debunk that one, too. Beijing is easily the dirtiest town I have ever laid eyes on. Oh, and I've lived in NY City, too. The public toilets alone were enough to make me retch in PEK. Hand washing is a relatively new concept. So is working laundry soap. Diapers are only for the rich (most kids just walk around with their pants split open so that they can do what they need to whenever and where ever, and they do whenever and where ever). If they don't eat a cheeseburger with their hands (which, again, I never saw) then I wouldn't blame them. It's the same as taking your shoes off before you enter a home because whatever you stepped in was so dirty that you pretty much have to or else you're really going to foul the place up (and attaching a concept of "respect" to it later so you don't have to admit that the puddle of urine in the elevator could be harboring the last few strains of SARS would be a good idea, too).
- Burritovision, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2the only thing better for workers than unions is state-owned, market-run businesses. now that's regulation of interstate commerce.
- dgaspard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Many countries don't eat with there hands. It was funny to see a friend of mine that moved to Louisiana from another country eat. You can almost see him struggle to eat with his hands. Just something he wasn't accustomed too.
- loveandrockets, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4WalMart pulled out of Germany. Probably because they demand decent wages, decent treatment (not being locked in the store at night) and 36 hr. work week. That would cut into their profits too much.
- FlamingWombat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4In magical happy fairy land, yes, the US Wal-Mart employees could learn something from this. However, in reality (where we live), many Wal-Mart employees have been fired for even talking about unionizing. Though, I guess a large-scale action like this might force their hand
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3china being socialists, unions make sence.
- monsters, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6I'm pretty sure there's enough money to be made with unions that China is still attractive.
- wetworx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Why would that seem odd? Communism is just a union in a politcal suit.
It would seem odd if China did not force a union (which the party controls) on every business trying to open up there. - justice7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2China will grow larger
- flyinbuddha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Union workers would get health benefits and fair wages. That's why the open door policy makes so much sense to management.
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7How could that possibly make sense?
Not the unions, but the existance of walmarts in China. Doesn't Walmart only work because of artificial currency manipulation? - MrBabyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2China vs Wal-Mart: Battle Royale!! Two will enter, One will leave!
- Atomic1fire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4its more like a SOcial club :|
- dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2 Yes, unions are rare in a Communist Country! ???
The whole damn country is a union. - astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Gung Ho 2: Wallmart
- cisox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wal-Mart provides benefits to its workers. You can always get a 401k, health insurance, etc. as long as you sign up for it.
- scott1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The motto of coummism:
"Workers of the world, unite!" - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not really. In a state controlled economy what leverage do you have when your salary and benefits are decided by law? It's only because China is starting to embrace capitalism and letting foreign companies do business there, that unions start making sense.
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Unions are good for business.
Why negotiate contracts with every worker when you can just negotiate one for everyone?
A union is a blessing to a well run corporation and a curse to one that is not well run. - chunbo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0interesting article!
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