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224 Comments
- BlindDefender, on 11/14/2008, -3/+86In my opinion...It seems questionable to give these companies tax payer money. Some questions:
Why are these companies making products nobody wants? Did they not research their market? Should tax payers reward them for making bad business decisions?
How would giving them money help the situation? They will still have a bunch of inventory nobody wants. What will they use the money for? Do they have a plan to start making products somebody wants?
Assuming they have a good business plan for getting out of their predicament, is it the tax payer's responsibility to provide funds to implement this plan?
What is the plan? Will it even work? Will they still have the problem in 6 or 12 months? Will they want more money then too?
There is an existing method for businesses in this situation; it is called bankruptcy. Let these companies use this to solve their own problems and if worthy, they will reemerge. If not, maybe it is time for some new American automakers. - ScienceDoc, on 11/14/2008, -2/+49When the big three are screwing little companies, they spout "free market, baby". Karma can really hurt. Others will step up and fill the void.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -5/+50Let them die.
- Gnarstache, on 11/14/2008, -2/+39What if MAD TV wanted bailout money to stay on air because they aren't funny anymore, giving them money will make them funnier? Don't give ***** to automakers, they've never made me laugh.
- scoot2006, on 11/14/2008, -2/+38Good. Throwing money on a fire isn't how you put it out.
- Reclinatron, on 11/14/2008, -2/+34“The financial straits that the Big Three find themselves in is not the product of our current economic downturn, but instead is the legacy of the uncompetitive structure of its manufacturing and labor force,” Mr. Shelby said in a statement. “The financial situation facing the Big Three is not a national problem but their problem.”
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/05/big_threes_ ... - R&D and Capital expenditures
http://seekingalpha.com/article/105061-should-we-r ... - Labor costs - trer, on 11/14/2008, -3/+27Isn't it un-American to reward failure?
- crowbar77, on 11/14/2008, -1/+23It's going to happen anyways, this will just prolong it and further devalue the dollar. Besides that estimate was done by one source, the center for Automotive Research, who happens to be basically in the pockets of the auto industry.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -1/+23Here's a solution:
Hover cars.
Get on it Detroit. - phike, on 11/14/2008, -1/+23Let GM and Ford die. They will not be able to compete with a bailout, so why prolong inferior companies just because they hire thousands of Americans?
- SpanishMongoose, on 03/02/2009, -3/+23screw this man... i sick and tried of this bailout bs crap
- EarlofSlander, on 11/14/2008, -0/+18It's the new American dream. Grow your company using sound fiscal decision making. Then spend 20 years greedily taking advantage of every loop hole available to you. Then when your poor decisions catch up with the company send your lobbyist to Washington to ask for sweet tax payer money. I have already started my future failing corporation.
- giddytonk, on 11/14/2008, -1/+17I think they need to die. They haven't been able to compete in the market, and it just so happens the country is in severe financial dire straights right now. They must go.
- DanOnTheMoon, on 11/14/2008, -0/+16$700 Billion isn't the whole total. The real total amount of bailout money being doled out is more like $2 Trillion.
- cubicledrone, on 11/14/2008, -1/+16They're making products nobody wants because there is a giant hardened wedge of ***** in the middle of the company made up of managers and meetings who will not allow the smart people to do their jobs properly. All they do is suck paycheck and they are NEVER HELD TO ANSWER FOR THEIR INCOMPETENT BAD DECISIONS.
Every company in this country has an unwiped ass just like this one, and everyone tolerates it because we all want to be "team players." You can see it right here in this thread: nobody blames management. It's all the union's fault, or the pensions, or the Koreans, or some other pile of *****.
It's management's fault. Simple as that. - chase001, on 11/14/2008, -3/+14Why should we bail out failed companies and let people in New Orleans live in trailers next to their homes they can't afford to rebuild? Corpo-Socialism is evil.
- Naieve, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/12/paulson-bernanke- ...
Make that 5 trillion. - geauxtig3rs, on 11/14/2008, -2/+13This is a 100% union problem. GM cars used to be *****, but in the past 5 years, the build quality has gone up (tighter build tolerances than GM) greater reliability, unrivaled warranties, and, as a whole, they have better fuel economy than similarly sized vehicles. Domestic vehicles would be cheaper if not for the horrendous costs of labor incurred by the plants due to union bullying of the US auto industry.
Toyota, Volkswagen, Hyundai, Honda...they all have unions, but they didn't back down to the unions on every single issue like the domestic manufacturers have. If Unions were really for blue-collar workers, then they would have reigned in their demands long ago. American manufacturers cannot compete because their cars cost more, and that is because it costs more to manufacture their cars because of labor. Unions stifle efficiency and innovation, and it's bad for business. I agree, there once was a place for unions, and they did alot of good in years past, but that time is past, and the contracts need renegotiated at the very least.
When there is no incentive to mechanize production (even if you create a robot that can do a worker's job, you have to pay them under their union contract, then they sit and play boardgames all day) then they can't compete and they will stagnate. I say file for bankruptcy and renegotiate the union contracts. I'd like to end this by including that I sell Chevrolets for a living. The business in my region of the country is not bad, in fact baton rouge has one of the best economies in the country right now, and none of the import dealerships can hope to compete with us in our region. - PaisleyTeal, on 11/14/2008, -0/+11last one out of michigan shut off the lights.
- Zomgondo, on 11/14/2008, -2/+12I'm a good Democrat, and I still think the auto companies should be allowed to fail. Cars made by American companies (and especially GM) are *****. It's entirely possible to build good cars right here in the US - my Subaru was made in Indiana and it's reliable as hell - but the American manufacturers just can't seem to figure out how to do it. So screw them, let them fold, and let Toyota / Honda / BMW / etc. open new factories here.
- billbugger, on 11/14/2008, -0/+10I agree. Apparently the money for this is coming from the $700 billion which was promised only to the banking industry and no one else.
However, one way they may be trying to get by that is by having their finance companies (GMAC Financial Services) apply for the money to then 'loan' to the parent company.
// just an idea, no sited resources - sirellyn, on 11/14/2008, -0/+9Yes, but I honestly can't remember when the democrats or republicans actually served America.
- Gareth321, on 11/14/2008, -1/+10Because the financial bailout worked so well...
- Naieve, on 11/14/2008, -0/+9The Unions finally figured out they were in trouble last year and decided to pull back as they figured out what was happening.
Seems they were too late. - ExRe, on 11/14/2008, -1/+10I say they give everyone a $10m bailout to stimulate the economy.
I only ask that they give me mine a few days before everyone else so I can dump all the cash and stock up on gold. - Dumbledorito, on 11/14/2008, -2/+10Given that the last time they were given a boatload of cash to research "green" technologies, they tossed what little they'd done with the money in the dumpster the second Bush was elected (I'm not saying it's Bush's fault, I'm saying they knew they wouldn't be called on taking the money and running under his administration).
And honestly, how could they hope to have this new cash infusion work? It's not like the economy has a huge demand for ANY big purchases right now.
I predict that the parts suppliers (or some of them) will be "rescued" by companies like Toyota, who use a lot of the same factories and infrastructure, but really, this is like taking out a home improvement loan to save a house on a cliff that's already crumbling into the ocean. - TheOne08, on 11/14/2008, -2/+10Thank the Democratic party backed labor unions for the big 3's woes.
- crowbar77, on 11/14/2008, -1/+9I really can't see how any amount of bailouts that can help them. All it will due is prolong bankruptcy and further devalue the dollar. And for those of you saying 3 million jobs will be lost, remember that estimate was done by the Center for Automotive Research. They're basically a front for the auto industry.
- inactive, on 11/14/2008, -1/+8This is what happens when you aren't competitive and fail to adapt. Letting them declare bankruptcy would be good for America in the long term because it would force us to design something that can compete with cars like the Prius- which is what, like ten years old now? Anyone with half a brain saw this coming years ago.
Bailouts only postpone the inevitable and waste taxpayer money. - a1lostnomad, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6It started with little league kids all getting trophies whether they won or lost...
- azpat, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6Doesn't Japan have national health care? Germany too. Why is it that the same people who complain to hell and back about Unions always bring up Japan and always neglect the fact that Japanese automakers dont have to pay health insurance directly to their employees.
Reform health care in this country (lower costs/increase competition/nationalize it/do something) and suddenly the cost of employing an American worker will be less.
fun fact: since GWB took office, not counting the past three months, the economy has grown, but wages have stayed steady. why? health care.
Health care reform is an economic issue. - Shiftgood, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6“The financial straits that the Big Three find themselves in is not the product of our current economic downturn, but instead is the legacy of the uncompetitive structure of its manufacturing and labor force,” Mr. Shelby said in a statement. “The financial situation facing the Big Three is not a national problem but their problem.”
well said, please dont kill the dollar... - e68895f, on 11/14/2008, -3/+9Democrats vs. Republicans. Whoever wins... We lose.
- meruru, on 11/14/2008, -1/+7Being around Detroit my whole life has given me a passionate hatred of labor unions.
- tgc1, on 11/14/2008, -1/+7For ***** sakes this outcome should have been blindingly obvious for anyone who has been paying attention for the last 30 years. Imports have completely taken over the viable market in the automotive sector, hell even Hyundai's are a million times better than anything on the domestic market (in a similar category). Just about the only thing they haven't managed to do is take over the truck market. But still, if these idiot CEO's and upper management weren't so busy on golfing trips and checking up on their stock portfolio, maybe they could have bought themselves a clue! Idiots.
- Jsmuli2, on 11/14/2008, -2/+8"If not, maybe it is time for some new American automakers."
...or no American automakers... - Dumbledorito, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6But if you're spending money like water...
/sorry - drewbe121212, on 11/14/2008, -0/+6Agreed. It's just bad business.
- Torx, on 11/14/2008, -3/+9I dont want my tax money going to overpaid lazy union workers.
- davebg8r, on 11/14/2008, -8/+13There is often and pain and suffering that must be endured before a cancer can be eradicated. These people, in the auto industry, financial industry, housing industry, etc need to lose hard. We cannot allow them to continue bleeding us dry. We understand it will cause pain and stryfe. We are willing to suffer that to cleanse ourselves us of these people and practices. The alternative is much worse.
And can someone explain why Dodd is still on the banking committee? Or why Barney Frank still has his seat? Is there anyone in government the understands the concepts of accountability and conflict of interest? Where is your Messiah Obama on these issues? - evilbob333, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6Any socialism is evil. Let the big fall with the small.
- JCEEZ, on 11/14/2008, -0/+5Or we can give them a crap-load of money, to delay the inevitable. Then we will have a bunch of shiny new cars, sitting on lots, that no one is buying.
The need to make more competitive cars.
It sucks to say but its the truth. Japanese auto workers get paid more, but fewer benefits, so in the end American auto-workers cost more per hour to the company. Thanks unions!
I think its great that the American auto-companies pay pensions etc to their old employees, and should continue to do-so.
They need to create a timeline, with paying the pensions at the top of the priority chart and have a date where they will run out of money and then hope an innovative entrepreneur or other company will buy them out, and restructure the company so they can make competitive cars again and VASTLY lower their cost to do business. - Matt2k, on 11/14/2008, -1/+6I don't know and I'm running out of effort to care. You ***** figure it out. I'm moving to the Yukon
- phantomex, on 11/14/2008, -2/+7If the big 3 automakers go down. Does it not affect the smaller auto-industry suppliers as well? Kind of like a domino effect.
- FongoBongo, on 11/15/2008, -0/+5Why the hell should the American people bail out the big three when its their own foresight and rigidness that got them here in the first place. Consider this:
Back in 2005 when the auto industry was at its highest peak the big three was still losing money! So what does that tell you? That even in perfect conditions these auto companies had flawed methodologies of governance and production. The American auto industry has been sinking for a long time and the last hole in the ship is the current economic slowdown. Giving these auto manufacturers 25 billion is like handing a small pale to the sinking boat which is taking on loads of water. It's not going to do much, maybe take off a couple of minutes before it sinks, you get the point. The American auto industry needs to fail so it can be bought out and restructured. American auto has to reposition itself to be run effectively and competitively, something which has been lacking for a very long time. - meruru, on 11/14/2008, -2/+7People fly on the planes of companies that went bankrupt, I don't see why they wouldn't use the cars of a bankrupt company.
- trafficlight, on 11/14/2008, -1/+5Then the model is flawed and everyone needs to start over. But in reality, the dealers all won't go out of business. They will just sell different brands of cars. Cars in general aren't going away any time soon, so don't act like it.
- PopcornDave, on 11/15/2008, -0/+4You need to add that top management at any company that receives a bailout guarantees to pay no bonuses to the top 10% of executives and that those same executives take a salary of $1 a year for the time that it takes them to pay back the loan. Watch how quickly those loans get paid back.
I know it's probably symbolic at best, but it would show that cuts were being made at the top of the food chain and that would perhaps go a bit of a way to restoring some confidence of the average person about business and the bailout. -
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